Guild Wars 2

berserker stance nerf op

Berserker Stance: This skill now grants resistance for 3 seconds every 3 seconds instead of preventing conditions from being applied to you. Its duration has been increased to 9 seconds.

It’s a buff and a nerf. It doesn’t look terrible.

Warlord.9074:

It’s a buff and a nerf. It doesn’t look terrible.

it looks terrible because everyone and their mom can strip it easy..

Warlord.9074:

It’s a buff and a nerf. It doesn’t look terrible.

NECROMANCER will convert it to MORE CHILL on top of what they already have LOL

Warlord.9074:

It’s a buff and a nerf. It doesn’t look terrible.

How’s that a buff? LoL? +1s duration is a buff?

This nerf combined with all the new boon stripping on Necro = bad news for warriors

Man, I’m all for more counterplay, but this REALLY wasn’t necessary.

smh

Hail necros overlords

Eh, we’ll have to see.

It’s become a much better “oh kitten!” button than it was in that you don’t have to preemptively use it against a condi bomb, and the total duration is considerably longer if I understand it correctly (12s of resistance applied at 0/3/6/9 for 3s each, otherwise just 1s longer).

It’s also still good against most condi classes we’ll come up against, and it won’t be as obvious to an opponent that they should stop using their condi bomb when it’s up.

Against necros though…. yikes. As it was, killing condi necros who knew what they’re doing was tough. Their now greatly enhanced boon corruption combined with Berserker Stance becoming resistance will probably make them impossible for us to kill, at least in melee.

it’s not only a nerf because the resistence can get stripped, it’s also a nerf because you will get damaged by every condition that lasts longer than these 9s

warrior was on the bottom of being trash and now they even buried him geegee

Unecessarry nerf, makes fighting a necro/mesmer even more ridiculous ( as they can instant-strip your resistance away) .

Seriously what the mewmew were they thinking …

It’s a buff in that if you have a ton of condis on you already and you pop it.

I did have a little cry when I first saw it, but if it gets corrupted it will reapply a couple of seconds later. You get 12 seconds of resist btw. I’m making no comment on the overall result of the change. Just mentioning those two things.

Electric Puha.6729:

I did have a little cry when I first saw it, but if it gets corrupted it will reapply a couple of seconds later. You get 12 seconds of resist btw. I’m making no comment on the overall result of the change. Just mentioning those two things.

It’s a pity that Last Stand won’t give it an extra 3s. Then again, boon duration buffs will. An extra 2.4s with a +20% buff is nice.

Warlord.9074:

It’s a buff in that if you have a ton of condis on you already and you pop it.

Sure you can stop the conditions from doing damage… but with resistance conditions can constantly be applied to you non stop! meaning 1 boon strip on you and your HP will sky rocket down, and to add to this, these conditions will begin to hit hard once zerk stance has ended allowing the conditions to munch down that HP.

Before this change we would have no conditions applied to us throughout the duration of the skill. So I would rather have the old zerk stance back!

Atm in Wvw,its a MASSIVE nerf…..incredible anet.How do you come up with these awesome ideas ? Lotta lsd ?

What do you guys think about Sig of stamina vs Berserk now btw ?

Choppy.4183:

Electric Puha.6729:

I did have a little cry when I first saw it, but if it gets corrupted it will reapply a couple of seconds later. You get 12 seconds of resist btw. I’m making no comment on the overall result of the change. Just mentioning those two things.

It’s a pity that Last Stand won’t give it an extra 3s. Then again, boon duration buffs will. An extra 2.4s with a +20% buff is nice.

You do get 15 sec of resistance with last stand

Electric Puha.6729:

You do get 15 sec of resistance with last stand

For sure? I haven’t tested it, but if you have, that’s great. I’d assumed it wouldn’t because it would be just shy of 12s for the fourth pulse

If you’re right, my standard roamwr is going from 10s of no condi application to 18s of pulsing resistance. Frankly, I don’t see that as a nerf. They’re more counterpart to it, sure, and necros will be a nightmare, but it’ll probably be better in most situations I see.

RIP classes crutching on blind spam.

Choppy.4183:

Eh, we’ll have to see.

It’s become a much better “oh kitten!” button than it was in that you don’t have to preemptively use it against a condi bomb, and the total duration is considerably longer if I understand it correctly (12s of resistance applied at 0/3/6/9 for 3s each, otherwise just 1s longer).

It’s also still good against most condi classes we’ll come up against, and it won’t be as obvious to an opponent that they should stop using their condi bomb when it’s up.

Against necros though…. yikes. As it was, killing condi necros who knew what they’re doing was tough. Their now greatly enhanced boon corruption combined with Berserker Stance becoming resistance will probably make them impossible for us to kill, at least in melee.

Given the resistance will need to be corrupted every 3 seconds, it’s going to really screw with condition users.

Also great against aura’s when you’re sitting in rifle. Hates ele frost auras as much as thief blinds XD

It’s nice that you can bait out condi bombs now, then resist them. Unfortunately, like the others have mentioned, Necros will just butcher us with all the boon corruption.

At least with the old Berserker’s Stance, you could try to anticipate a condi bomb and use that window of time to make your attack. This new version seems just as brainless as the other stances: another passive “oh kitten” button. It leads to a very reactionary and passive playstyle. Like a condi version of Endure Pain.

Stance play is a game of swapping immunities on cooldown… very boring. This change did nothing to solve that, it just gave Necros some counterplay against us.

I dont have any problems at all vs condi bombers with my condi shoutheal bunker build.
No need for beserker stance ^^

it is a nerf since you get automatically suffer from condi as soon as boon finishes and also, they can turn your boon into condi.

With shoutheal and soldier rune you have 6 additional condi cleanses thats far away from being enough against reapers etc tbh.

In the meta with shoutbow and medi guard shoutheal +condi cleanse was enough to handle condi and pure dmg pressure. Now it is just horrible.

online.1278:

it is a nerf since you get automatically suffer from condi as soon as boon finishes and also, they can turn your boon into condi.

If your resistance application can outpace their corruption then there’s really nothing to worry about. This is, of course, if you’re not even bothering to dodge/evade/block/mitigate their corruptions -_-u

Even then it’s not as though you have to be bereft of straight condition cleanse. When all is said and done, you can still take additional resistance from sig of healing. Bait out the necros cd’s then go ham with your backups.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If your resistance application can outpace their corruption then there’s really nothing to worry about. This is, of course, if you’re not even bothering to dodge/evade/block/mitigate their corruptions -_-u

This is basically going to be the focus of my observation period before I pass judgment on it. By the notes, it looks like there’s a whole helluva lot of boon hate flying around there.

But if the reality of it is actually a lot less, then this could be a major improvement.

I’m doubly interested in the boon hate thing because I normally run on a lot of might, and losing that might to have it replaced with perma-weakness would have me sad in the pants (and looking for a new build).

Electric Puha.6729:

You do get 15 sec of resistance with last stand

Update:
Just tested this and Last Stand doesn’t give you any benefit to the resistance provided by the trait. You get adren longer, and then the vigor from the trait, but that’s it.

If they increased the base stance duration from 9s to 10s, it wouldn’t really impact how it functions now untraited, but you would get the extra pulse if it was.

You sure? I press the button and there is 45 sec cooldown on skill when resist runs out. Without it 48 sec. There a prob with my method?

Electric Puha.6729:

You sure? I press the button and there is 45 sec cooldown on skill when resist runs out. Without it 48 sec. There a prob with my method?

No, it’s the same method I used. I’ll test again later tonight. It could be that I’m mistaken, or it could be that there’s a weird/inconsistent interaction with the +20% boon food I had on at the time.

Will report back.

UPDATE:

So, this is interesting. You get the extra pulse of resistance in ALL areas EXCEPT the Eternal Borderlands Map in wvw.

I tested in my home Borderland Map, PvE (just outside of LA), and PvP.

So, the next question is, which is the intended effect? That the only place Last Stand doesn’t provide a benefit is one map in wvw, I’d assume they intended the trait to give the extra pulse. But by the numbers, it shouldn’t (9 sec x 1.25 = 11.25, when it should need 12 for the extra resistance; applied at 0s/3s/6s/9s/(12s))

I think it may be bugged somehow because a couple of times I tried it it didn’t give me the extra time. Nothing different otherwise.

I’m crying….getting absolutely rekt by necromancers in WvsW now. This guy had like 20% health and most of his stuff on cd….I engage and he dodges the killhit and does cloak then lays his aoe everywhere. I hit berserker stance and immediately he strips it and I get hit by a hammer…..I use healing signet and he strips that immediately as well. arghhhhhhhh the pain. Hoelbraek runes are stupid….stupid stupid stupid why did I bother with them if this is what happens with 3 condition defenses and extra vitality and argh. /cry
I’m getting rekt by elementalists as well now….this one two shotted me with lightning from 22k hp to 2.5k hp

Cerby.1069:

I’m crying….getting absolutely rekt by necromancers in WvsW now. This guy had like 20% health and most of his stuff on cd….I engage and he dodges the killhit and does cloak then lays his aoe everywhere. I hit berserker stance and immediately he strips it and I get hit by a hammer…..I use healing signet and he strips that immediately as well. arghhhhhhhh the pain. Hoelbraek runes are stupid….stupid stupid stupid why did I bother with them if this is what happens with 3 condition defenses and extra vitality and argh. /cry
I’m getting rekt by elementalists as well now….this one two shotted me with lightning from 22k hp to 2.5k hp

Im just trying to figure out where the hammer came from

I actually did really well with it in wvw tonight, to the extent that I prefer it. And
i fought several reapers too.

I prefer it because I now use it when I know I need to, rather than when I think I’ll probably need it. I like the extra duration, what was 10s (traited) is now 15s (due to my food… would have been longer on other maps, I guess), and stripping didn’t seem like that much of a problem since one strip leaves me open for whatever’s left of the 3s interval before I’m back on top.

Frankly, at this point, I’m more worried about losing my 25 stacks of might than I am 3s of resistance that I’ll get right back.

I’m assuming you are running a melee and a ranged set though so you don’t have to always jump through necro aoe. Full melee seems like suicide atm against necro.

Azure.8670:

Cerby.1069:

I’m crying….getting absolutely rekt by necromancers in WvsW now. This guy had like 20% health and most of his stuff on cd….I engage and he dodges the killhit and does cloak then lays his aoe everywhere. I hit berserker stance and immediately he strips it and I get hit by a hammer…..I use healing signet and he strips that immediately as well. arghhhhhhhh the pain. Hoelbraek runes are stupid….stupid stupid stupid why did I bother with them if this is what happens with 3 condition defenses and extra vitality and argh. /cry
I’m getting rekt by elementalists as well now….this one two shotted me with lightning from 22k hp to 2.5k hp

Im just trying to figure out where the hammer came from

I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that o.O

The change is actually not that bad. When you get blinded and you use BS, all condis on you don’t do anything right when resistance takes effect. In this case, you don’t have to be worried with being blinded or weakened before activating BS. In duels with necros, lets be direct: necros are most vulnerable to ccs. This change actually gave them a chance to be able to do something when facing hammer or mace/shield warrior. I don’t mind this change at all. The only thing I am sad about is that stances did not get any CD reductions …

Cerby.1069:

I’m assuming you are running a melee and a ranged set though so you don’t have to always jump through necro aoe. Full melee seems like suicide atm against necro.

Azure.8670:

Cerby.1069:

I’m crying….getting absolutely rekt by necromancers in WvsW now. This guy had like 20% health and most of his stuff on cd….I engage and he dodges the killhit and does cloak then lays his aoe everywhere. I hit berserker stance and immediately he strips it and I get hit by a hammer…..I use healing signet and he strips that immediately as well. arghhhhhhhh the pain. Hoelbraek runes are stupid….stupid stupid stupid why did I bother with them if this is what happens with 3 condition defenses and extra vitality and argh. /cry
I’m getting rekt by elementalists as well now….this one two shotted me with lightning from 22k hp to 2.5k hp

Im just trying to figure out where the hammer came from

I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that o.O

Thats a sign of truly getting your tail whooped. I salute you

Conditions in this game really ruin the gameplay for me. Now with the change of Zerker stance it encourages the worst kind of play around!
If you are faced against a necro, all they now have to do is spam all skills putting all their conditions on you then just keep auto attacking with scepter till you die of the condition bomb which you now cant remove due to resistance being remove constantly.

Sure you can say ‘But they need a fighting chance’ but being that now you cant actually stop the condition bomb its made it a little lopsided.

Revert the change to Zerker stance!

Change the boon you gain on using stances as well, Vigor on Defy pain… seriously o.O you wont be taking damage while that’s up, so you don’t need to dodge so much, make it a boon appropriate for each skill.
Example:

Defy pain : At the end of the skill gain protection for 6s
Zerker: Gain Swiftness upon skill use 6ss
Balanced stance: Gain Vigor on skill use 6s
Frenzy: Gain Fury on skill use 6s

And add a kitten cooldown reduction on these skills!
Ranger/Druid has a far superior defy pain on an almost same cooldown (traited)

@Smoosh
Is that how the fights go for you though? Ignoring that the skill works better than the old skill against condi builds without boon hate, when fighting a necro they’re not usually in a position to just auto attack me because I’m also attacking them.

If a necro did what you described, he’d be a dead necro in well under ten seconds.

I completely disagree with you about Last Stand too. Vigor is one of the best boons in the game, it synergizes extremely well with the Strength line, and you absolutely do take damage when using Endure pain. Dodging condi attacks and cc’s is a very good thing to do too.

Cerby.1069:

I’m assuming you are running a melee and a ranged set though so you don’t have to always jump through necro aoe. Full melee seems like suicide atm against necro.

No, actually. I ran a gs/s+sh all night that uses a tonne of might stacking (so boons are important to the build and I’m full melee).

I didn’t find necros any more difficult than usual, tbh. But I haven’t tested it much (e.g. dueled with a condi necro who I know is skilled). But I can say I dueled a skilled condi reaper before the change, and he just kited me while the old Berserker Stance was up and then ripped in.

I’ve yet to feel threatened by condis with the new Berserker Stance up, and I was even doing a little zerg surfing last night.

Azure.8670:

Cerby.1069:

I’m crying….getting absolutely rekt by necromancers in WvsW now. This guy had like 20% health and most of his stuff on cd….I engage and he dodges the killhit and does cloak then lays his aoe everywhere. I hit berserker stance and immediately he strips it and I get hit by a hammer…..I use healing signet and he strips that immediately as well. arghhhhhhhh the pain. Hoelbraek runes are stupid….stupid stupid stupid why did I bother with them if this is what happens with 3 condition defenses and extra vitality and argh. /cry
I’m getting rekt by elementalists as well now….this one two shotted me with lightning from 22k hp to 2.5k hp

Im just trying to figure out where the hammer came from

Don’t you know about the OP hammer necro build?

Choppy.4183:

@Azure
Is that how the fights go for you though? Ignoring that the skill works better than the old skill against condi builds without boon hate, when fighting a necro they’re not usually in a position to just auto attack me because I’m also attacking them.

If a necro did what you described, he’d be a dead necro in well under ten seconds.

I completely disagree with you about Last Stand too. Vigor is one of the best boons in the game, it synergizes extremely well with the Strength line, and you absolutely do take damage when using Endure pain. Dodging condi attacks and cc’s is a very good thing to do too.

Cerby.1069:

I’m assuming you are running a melee and a ranged set though so you don’t have to always jump through necro aoe. Full melee seems like suicide atm against necro.

No, actually. I ran a gs/s+sh all night that uses a tonne of might stacking (so boons are important to the build and I’m full melee).

I didn’t find necros any more difficult than usual, tbh. But I haven’t tested it much (e.g. dueled with a condi necro who I know is skilled). But I can say I dueled a skilled condi necro before the change, and he just kited me while the old Berserker Stance was up and then ripped in.

I’ve yet to feel threatened by condis with the new Berserker Stance up, and I was even doing a little zerg surfing last night.

I think youve got the wrong guy

But my 2 cents, I was just in wvw (didnt pvp yet) and a necro folded my warrior easily a few times over. However it wasnt boon corrupt that killed me it was poison and I could not clear it or heal through it regardless of anything I did. I think Necro is def in an amazing spot right now, but im not convinced warrior cant hold its own yet. I had a simple build on and wasnt meant for true combat as ironically I normally pvp/wvw on my necro

Azure.8670:

I think youve got the wrong guy

But my 2 cents, I was just in wvw (didnt pvp yet) and a necro folded my warrior easily a few times over. However it wasnt boon corrupt that killed me it was poison and I could not clear it or heal through it regardless of anything I did. I think Necro is def in an amazing spot right now, but im not convinced warrior cant hold its own yet. I had a simple build on and wasnt meant for true combat as ironically I normally pvp/wvw on my necro

Haha, sorry about that. I just threw the name on as an after thought once I’d added a reply to Cerby at the bottom. It’s been corrected now.

I also agree with you about Necro (and reaper… ouch). That condi reaper I mentioned in the earlier post, I beat him once out of 10 attempts, and that was the first round. Then he adjusted his playstyle (like watching for the old Berserker’s icon) and no build I tried could get through him (at least, not with me running it).

The poison was unreal, and the vuln stacking too. Add in chill, bleeds, etc, and it’s an ugly business.

I’ve been using it in WvW and I like it a lot. Smoked several reapers.

It’s The best thing that could have happened to the warrior in the current meta

Before it the only thank it did was make sure that any new conditions wouldn’t apply to you. Which means that if you had 8 condis on you and used the skill, well the 8 condis would still kill you.

Now if you are getting bashed on by a condi thief or necro: all these waves of condis applied to you don’t damage you. So it’s awesome. I’m really happy with it.

But if a necro can strip it, than you are like a sick person in america with no insurance (screwed)

YaYa.5879:

It’s The best thing that could have happened to the warrior in the current meta

Before it the only thank it did was make sure that any new conditions wouldn’t apply to you. Which means that if you had 8 condis on you and used the skill, well the 8 condis would still kill you.

Now if you are getting bashed on by a condi thief or necro: all these waves of condis applied to you don’t damage you. So it’s awesome. I’m really happy with it.

But if a necro can strip it, than you are like a sick person in america with no insurance (screwed)

Exactly this. Yesterday, this new change saved my life two times from enemy zerg in wvw
and I am completely fine with it being strip-able as trade off.

I actually see a lot of potential for this in WvW.

Chill necro’s, power or condi, kill any melee warrior, but that’s the same as before the patch. The comment about Hammer or Mace warriors being good vs necro’s made me giggle.

If they made it reapplying in 1s intervals it’ll be much better. But I still stand on how warrior should the class that gets non strippable defensive/offensive buffs.

Seriously necro shouldn’t just dominate every single class because they’re the sole class with an insane amount of boon strips/corrupt. There literally needs to be A counters B, B counters C, and C counters A to keep one class/meta destroying everything else and rendering everything else obsolete.

Cygnus.6903:

I actually see a lot of potential for this in WvW.

Chill necro’s, power or condi, kill any melee warrior, but that’s the same as before the patch. The comment about Hammer or Mace warriors being good vs necro’s made me giggle.

Well melee warriors had a fighting chance against necro with the old berserker stance in their build. And we could traverse in group/zerg fights with it. ‘Now’ it’s insta death. I think it important we recognize the difference. I’ll gladly take “hard” over “impossible”. And what other necro are there in wvsw if not chill/power/condition? Tank? lol…

Cerby.1069:

Well melee warriors had a fighting chance against necro with the old berserker stance in their build. And we could traverse in group/zerg fights with it. ‘Now’ it’s insta death. I think it important we recognize the difference. I’ll gladly take “hard” over “impossible”. And what other necro are there in wvsw if not chill/power/condition? Tank? lol…

I honestly have trouble syncing this up with my own experience, which has been the opposite, for the most part.

The old Berserker’s Stance bought you 8-10s at most… if you were lucky, they’d use all their condi burst while the stance was up. If you were unlucky, they’d know to wait, or you’d use it when they weren’t about to bomb you anyway.

The new Berserker’s Stance allows you to wait until you’ve actually been bombed, and lasts 12-15s (or up to 18s if you have boon food on and aren’t in EBG). Resistance is less obvious on a boon bar than the old stance icon but, even if they see it, there’s little for the necro to do but try to corrupt the boon. But corruption is random, so the necro has to get lucky to actually corrupt the resistance (vs your other boons), and it’ll reapply in 3s or less anyway.

And it’s not as though every skill corrupts. Plus they’ll be busy kiting like hell while your resistance is up.

Honestly, while necros/reapers were the only thing that had me a bit hesitant about the stance change, the experience hasn’t really born out the concern.

Choppy.4183:

Cerby.1069:

Well melee warriors had a fighting chance against necro with the old berserker stance in their build. And we could traverse in group/zerg fights with it. ‘Now’ it’s insta death. I think it important we recognize the difference. I’ll gladly take “hard” over “impossible”. And what other necro are there in wvsw if not chill/power/condition? Tank? lol…

I honestly have trouble syncing this up with my own experience, which has been the opposite, for the most part.

The old Berserker’s Stance bought you 8-10s at most… if you were lucky, they’d use all their condi burst while the stance was up. If you were unlucky, they’d know to wait, or you’d use it when they weren’t about to bomb you anyway.

The new Berserker’s Stance allows you to wait until you’ve actually been bombed, and lasts 12-14s (or 16-17s if you have boon food on and aren’t in EBG). Resistance is less obvious on a boon bar than the old stance icon but, even if they see it, there’s little for the necro to do but try to corrupt the boon. But corruption is random, so the necro has to get lucky to actually corrupt the resistance (vs your other boons), and it’ll reapply in 3s or less anyway.

And it’s not as though every skill corrupts, and they’ll be busy trying to kite like hell while your resistance is up.

Honestly, while necros/reapers were the only thing that had me a bit hesitant about the stance change, the experience hasn’t really born out the concern.

You still had healsig for the resistance..The change is a nerf,not a buff.Resistance can be ripped,the old berserk immunity could not.It was a free 9 sec of non condi spam on you.

Caedmon.6798:

Choppy.4183:

Cerby.1069:

Well melee warriors had a fighting chance against necro with the old berserker stance in their build. And we could traverse in group/zerg fights with it. ‘Now’ it’s insta death. I think it important we recognize the difference. I’ll gladly take “hard” over “impossible”. And what other necro are there in wvsw if not chill/power/condition? Tank? lol…

I honestly have trouble syncing this up with my own experience, which has been the opposite, for the most part.

The old Berserker’s Stance bought you 8-10s at most… if you were lucky, they’d use all their condi burst while the stance was up. If you were unlucky, they’d know to wait, or you’d use it when they weren’t about to bomb you anyway.

The new Berserker’s Stance allows you to wait until you’ve actually been bombed, and lasts 12-14s (or 16-17s if you have boon food on and aren’t in EBG). Resistance is less obvious on a boon bar than the old stance icon but, even if they see it, there’s little for the necro to do but try to corrupt the boon. But corruption is random, so the necro has to get lucky to actually corrupt the resistance (vs your other boons), and it’ll reapply in 3s or less anyway.

And it’s not as though every skill corrupts, and they’ll be busy trying to kite like hell while your resistance is up.

Honestly, while necros/reapers were the only thing that had me a bit hesitant about the stance change, the experience hasn’t really born out the concern.

You still had healsig for the resistance..The change is a nerf,not a buff.Resistance can be ripped,the old berserk immunity could not.It was a free 9 sec of non condi spam on you.

Resistence can be ripped… for a maximum of 3 seconds, and more than likely less than this before reapplication.

Even if they rip the initial application, the last will linger beyond the base 3s if you’ve built properly.

I dropped sig of might for zerker stance, so you can tell its legit XD

Caedmon.6798:

You still had healsig for the resistance..The change is a nerf,not a buff.Resistance can be ripped,the old berserk immunity could not.It was a free 9 sec of non condi spam on you.

I literally just addressed the relatively low risk of being stripped vs the advantage of up to double the no-condi period…. And you still have the HS active as before.