Guild Wars 2

how about we ….

make cleansing ire into a grandmaster trait, but make “embrace the pain” baseline and then restore cleansing ire to what it originally was before?

Cleansing Ire | Major Grandmaster Trait
“Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.”

discuss!

is it mainly just to get embrace the pain so we don’t have to take cleansing ire? I can only see the bow builds without hammer being affected but some of them take 6 points into defense anyway.

Since Adrenaline isn’t saved between fights anymore like it used to, I don’t think Cleansing Ire is worthy of Grandmaster tier anymore…

how about we ….

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how about we ….

make cleansing ire into a grandmaster trait, but make “embrace the pain” baseline and then restore cleansing ire to what it originally was before?

Cleansing Ire | Major Grandmaster Trait
“Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.”

discuss!

I’ll take it

I don’t think it matters what spot CI is in due to the fact that we take all points in the line anyways. The only thing they can do is move Sundering Mace to Master but that wouldn’t change anything, either you’re going to use the Defense line or you’re not.

Making “Gain Adren upon being hit” baseline though would indeed open up some new options. With Mending becoming a Physical skill it’s Healing Per Second will be only just behind the nerfed Healing sig. There’s also the option to bring a Banner that has regen AND 2 Shouts. I think even if your new specialization ends up being underwhelming Warrior will stall have some solid builds, of course they will probably be Shoutbow and Modified Hambow.

nicknamenick.2437:

I just hate the fact we have boring gm traits in defense.. Everyone takes defy pain ofc because no mace build the other trait is trash!!!!! Even defy pain is really bad design

I’ve played them both extensively, and Rousing Resilience is better than Defy Pain in my opinion, because it automatically triggers with Balanced Stance, without any need for breaking stun. As such, it offers a better control over the trait activation (no need to wait until you’re about to die to profit from it).

From a trait point of view, Rousing Resilience should be kept on a different tier than Last Stand, to allow for further synergy. They could exchange Sundering Mace for Cleansing Ire, but that would probably weaken the warrior too much – in the end, the problem seems to lie with the design of Cleansing Ire itself.

Hi,

nicknamenick.2437:

Balanced stance? sure

Now think about what this trait does when using endure pain as a STUNBREAKER :-)

nothing..

Thats BAD design.

Ow AND do you know how much 1000 toughness does?
Lets say you have 3000 armor in total.. thats around 40% dmg reduction
Now lets make that 4000 armor > 55% dmg reduction

So this skill gives you 15% dmg reduction ONLY when break out of stun with a stunbreaker.. for 8 freaking seconds..

Thats REALLY bad design.. because only SHOUT warrior will profit most from it..
OFC AGAIN SHOUT boring builds.. stance builds wouldnt profit from this trait.

I’m not sure I understand your calculations, sorry (I’m not the math type). But since you’ve provided some, it’s fair that I make some more efforts myself.

From what I read on the wiki, the damage formula is something like: D = WS x P x SC / A, with:

• WS = Weapon Strength,
• P = Power of the Attacker,
• SC = Skill Coefficient of the weapon skill,
• A = Armor of the Defender.

Since WS, P and SC are constant, the damage reduction brought by Rousing Resilience is the relation 1 – A / (A +1000), so:

• If you have 2.0k armor (full glass cannon) = 34%,
• If you have 2.5k armor (berserker with 6 points in Defense) = 29%,
• If you have 3.0k armor (moderately tanky) = 25%,
• If you have 3.5k armor (highly tanky) = 22%.

So the more tankier you are, the less profitable is the trait (although I suspect one should rather reason using absolute values – a tank is a tank). If you run berserker with full points in Defense (standard power builds), then it’s nearly as good as protection. I wouldn’t call that trash, by all means, all the more that it has a reasonable uptime (at worst: 8s every 40s).

Balanced Stance triggers Rousing Resilience unconditionally, so you can decide when to have the extra armor. Endure Pain triggers it only when you break out of stun, the first 4s being useless, but the late 4s bringing the additional armor – it’s indeed less interesting.

Now, comparing with Defy Pain is a matter of play style: triggering Defy Pain means you’ve reached less than 25%, and get a physical immunity (not even a full immunity, because conditions, retaliation, leeching… can still kill you). In my opinion, this is not a desirable state, and I’d rather disengage before (and doing so, would have no use at all for Defy Pain). In that perspective, Rousing Resilience lets me manage my armor dynamically in the early stages of the combat, providing more opportunities.

Have you tried the trait yourself? I know it does not look pretty, but I’ve had lots of “positive” feedback about it (lots of opponents wondering why they couldn’t reach their usual damage levels).

Regards.

I haven’t used Rousing Resilience myself, but I’d probably take it over endure pain. With shoutbow in pvp, you have roughly 2,800 armor so the extra 1k toughness from rousing resilience will amount to about 26% damage reduction. If using Rousing Resilience, rather than taking fear me, I would probably opt for balanced stance. This leaves me with two stun breaks; balanced stance and shake it off. That’s 32seconds every minute of 1000 toughness against stun heavy classes. Also, it appears that Balanced Stance procs rousing resilience regardless whether or not you’re stunned, so that’s nice.

Also, after the balance patch, it seems like Rousing Resilience will also heal you for 1100 (before healing power). And as a shoutbow, more healing is always welcome.

25% more damage reduction of what you would have taken normally. So lets say you you are hit for 1,500 normally…With rousing resilience you would take roughly 1125 damage.

Going by your example

Lets say you have 3000 armor in total.. thats around 40% dmg reduction
Now lets make that 4000 armor > 55% dmg reduction

With 40% damage reduction, you would be taking 60% of their maximum damage…With 55% damage reduction, 45% of their maximum.

Lets assume they would hit you for 5,000 without armor. At 45% reduction you mitigate 2250 damage and you mitigate 3,000 damage at 60%. 3,000 – 2250 = 750…And 750 is a 25% damage reduction.

did they made cleansing ire grand master ?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

did they made cleansing ire grand master ?

yep. and they didn’t separate out the “embrace the pain part.”

from dulfy’s notes

“Cleansing Ire: Gain 1 adrenaline whenever you are hit. Remove 1 condition per bar of adrenaline spent when activating a burst skill.”

did they restore cleansing ire to what it was originally?
i.e.
“Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.”

Thuggernaut.1250:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

did they made cleansing ire grand master ?

yep. and they didn’t separate out the “embrace the pain part.”

aye, its okay, i believe we’ll still take it anyway.

but did they restore it to what it was?
i.e.
“Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent.”

Looks like they did unless they poorly worded it.

Kagamiku.9731:

Looks like they did unless they poorly worded it.

ah, i would be, very, very kittened, sad, disappointed if they poorly worded it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ah, i would be, very, very kittened, sad, disappointed if they poorly worded it.

I would not be surprised if it was just poorly worded after the tactics trait line fiasco

Nightmare Of Zg.6059:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ah, i would be, very, very kittened, sad, disappointed if they poorly worded it.

I would not be surprised if it was just poorly worded after the tactics trait line fiasco

eh, what was the tactics trait line fiasco about?

The fact that it did not exist and they had to read it instead of showing it on stream

The slides were full of typos, so I’m not getting too excited yet about the possibility of CI proc’ing on activation like it used to.

Sadly its Grandmaster status means the otherwise very nice Last Stand changes are never likely to see use.

They just ruined the combo Cleansing Ire + Rousing Resilience (something I’ve been using for months, highly powerful) and Last Stand + Rousing Resilience (benefiting from the synergy of Balanced Stance). All in all, they’ve probably just killed Rousing Resilience.

It’s highly disappointing to me, the only positive thing about it is that it’ll reduce the BM of players not knowledgeable enough to understand how a warrior could be as tanky as hell and still inflict berserker damage…

Elegie.3620:

They just ruined the combo Cleansing Ire + Rousing Resilience (something I’ve been using for months, highly powerful) and Last Stand + Rousing Resilience (benefiting from the synergy of Balanced Stance). All in all, they’ve probably just killed Rousing Resilience.

It’s highly disappointing to me, the only positive thing about it is that it’ll reduce the BM of players not knowledgeable enough to understand how a warrior could be as tanky as hell and still inflict berserker damage…

It’s a mixed bag. On one hand CI now procs on burst use rather than hit, on the other all our defensive traits on the defense line compete with each other. I’ve been using defy pain + CI so this doesn’t really affect me, but it really hurts build diversity. Cleansing Ire is that black hole trait, whether it’s in master, GM, or hell another trait line all together, we’ll all be taking it and its competors will be hurt. Tbh I’d be happy yo switch last stand and defy pain, remove the vigor from last stand and keep the 25% duration bonus so we can at least have another defensive option to go with CI.

Kamikazi.5380:

It’s a mixed bag. On one hand CI now procs on burst use rather than hit, on the other all our defensive traits on the defense line compete with each other. I’ve been using defy pain + CI so this doesn’t really affect me, but it really hurts build diversity. Cleansing Ire is that black hole trait, whether it’s in master, GM, or hell another trait line all together, we’ll all be taking it and its competors will be hurt. Tbh I’d be happy yo switch last stand and defy pain, remove the vigor from last stand and keep the 25% duration bonus so we can at least have another defensive option to go with CI.

I’m pretty sure Cleansing Ire proccing on burst rather than on hit is a typo, though. As it is, Cleansing Ire is pretty much necessary, not only because of the condition cleanse but also because of the adrenaline part. Reverting to the old Cleansing Ire would make it even more a black hole trait.

The proper way to deal with Cleansing Ire was:

• To make the adrenaline-on-hit baseline (“Embrace the Pain”),
• To make the longbow burst not trigger Cleansing Ire, unless the first pulse of the AoE touches an opponent,
• To possibly include a supplemental source of Resistance, maybe related to a GM trait applying to a skill type (similarly to the ranger’s “Survival of the Fittest”).

IM amazed on how anet is forzing warriors to use an specific build… specificly cleasing ire those 30 trait lines r now a MUST cause no warrior can survive with out it… on top of that u ruined a build i had planned, i honestly cant tolerate this kitten, put cleasing ire to master like it kittening was, stop trying to “balance” kitten u have no idea wtf ur doing and i dont even want to mention all the traits that u nerf such as: Body Blow: Stuns, dazes, knockbacks and knockdowns inflict weakness for 3 seconds and 2 stacks of bleeding for 6 seconds. (before weakness was a 5 sec duration and bleeding was 3 stacks for 15 sec), Distracting Strikes: Interrupts inflict 4 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. (before it was with 5 stacks of might for 10 sec), Bloodlust: Deal 5% additional damage to bleeding foes. Bleeding you inflict lasts 33% longer. (before it was 10% dmg and 50% bleeding duration). and many others i dont even want to mention.

i know those were not final traits and they were getting reworked but been so heavly nerf COMPARE to other classes that r getting a huge kittening boost is just stupid…

But what kittenes me off the most is the fact that cleasing is moving to Grand Marster trait… that is just stupid and can’t be tolerated.

oh and ofc healing signet is getting nerf…. again.

i need the support from other players to NOT allow this trash change of Cleasing Ire from master to grand master, Help.

Well with the new traits, it doesnt matter where the new traits belong in tiers. You will be forced to utilize a 6/6/6 build, You HAVE to use full 6 pts of the line.

Healing Sig active will grant Resistance. Even if it ends up being an overall nerf to power it’s a great change that makes Warrior more active and fun to play.

@KhainPride mate that is not true u could have had other 6/6/4/2 in many cases, like really effective ones… ones that i personally took my precios time analizating… but cleasing ire is definatly the most important trait in warriors it removes those condition on those crusial times and it also helps u build a bit of adrenaline when hit, anyways what im trying to say here is that now that cleasing ire is not a master trait this trait combinations r no longer posible… it also kittenes me off reading irrelevant comments like “make cleasing ire a grandmaster” i dont want to sound rude or disrespectful but kitten how can u be so stupid and idiotic… maving cleasing ire to grand master is a BAD thing for many reasons and like i said before there is NO RELEVANT warrior build that doesnt use cleasing ire, and now that u must spend 30 points OBLIGATORY on defense acces to those build r not going to be posible… pls i beg of u warriors out there to read CAREFULLY what every single trait has to offer, pls dont be selfish if u “think” this doesnt affect ur build also remember the Spike armour minor trait is trash, thank you for ur time and consideration.

@YuiRS i do agree on that.

wolverine.5164:

@YuiRS i do agree on that.

I am pretty sure you are only allowed to choose 3 trait lines but this time are allowed to max out 3 lines, you cant put 2 trait points in one line. Well you can but you will have an extra 4 points unspent because you cannot distribute among traits. The point of these new changes is so we can only choose 3 trait lines and max them out @ 6 each.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/New-traits-system

KhainPride.3987:

wolverine.5164:

@YuiRS i do agree on that.

I am pretty sure you are only allowed to choose 3 trait lines but this time are allowed to max out 3 lines, you cant put 2 trait points in one line. Well you can but you will have an extra 4 points unspent because you cannot distribute among traits. The point of these new changes is so we can only choose 3 trait lines and max them out @ 6 each.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/New-traits-system

Wao i mean, i dont even know what to say at this point… i dint even knew that information.

at this point i dont even care what they do anymore, cheers.