Guild Wars 2

is this fair?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ru_rXq2LYg0
geez he hits more than my glass cannons

There are like 3 threads dedicated to this one video. So lets review it under 20k hp on a warrior is kitten low hes as glass as glass gets. We see no decent melee go near him. Kill shots cast is actually easy to recognize and dodge. We actually see a thief run up to him and run to rez. The guys he were fighting were pvp newbies who mostly ran glass builds themselves. At one point he got just 4 bleeds and lost half his life.

I am not even defending the build I am laughing at how ludicrous it was he didn’t go down. This guy saw no real attention.

That’s WvW for you.

That build lacks tons of survivability and tools, all he has is the kill shot dmg which btw is moronic easy to avoid ! one properly placed backstab and he’s dead.

@4:25 look what happens when he tries his killshot at a properly specced ele all of a sudden only a 9k hit, this should tell you already this build only works on glass cannon builds or lower level opponents.

Don’t go calling NERF before examining and understanding what is going on !
This build is easily beaten by any balanced specced profession, some can even 1 hit kill this kind of build.

A lot of those killshots were also piercing to hit multiple targets, which used to be bugged and increase its damage as it pierces (as opposed to decreasing like auto attack or volley) and could still be that way.

it’s funny i posted this to see the different responses from here compared to thieves section, it’s ridiculous at the amount of people who kitten about thieves hitting this hard compared to warriors :|

In my mind they’re completely different scenarios.

99% of the time you can see the warrior kneeling and pointing a large gun at you, and if you can’t you need to pay more attention.

100% of the time you have no idea you’re about to die to a backstab from a thief.

Brunners.7251:

In my mind they’re completely different scenarios.

99% of the time you can see the warrior kneeling and pointing a large gun at you, and if you can’t you need to pay more attention.

100% of the time you have no idea you’re about to die to a backstab from a thief.

Warning, stupidity will be found in overflow above.

If you can’t see a thief moving in on you or having your teammates ping him or anything such then perhaps you need to keep your eyes open sir.

In WVW as that was recorded in, it can be chaotic and very hard to see when a warrior kneels down to shoot you since he can do this from 1500 range. Obviously the same goes for any class that has burst. But saying people need to pay better attention for one thing but not the other in such situations is to be frank just ludicrous.

Kuroin.1703:

Brunners.7251:

In my mind they’re completely different scenarios.

99% of the time you can see the warrior kneeling and pointing a large gun at you, and if you can’t you need to pay more attention.

100% of the time you have no idea you’re about to die to a backstab from a thief.

Warning, stupidity will be found in overflow above.

If you can’t see a thief moving in on you or having your teammates ping him or anything such then perhaps you need to keep your eyes open sir.

In WVW as that was recorded in, it can be chaotic and very hard to see when a warrior kneels down to shoot you since he can do this from 1500 range. Obviously the same goes for any class that has burst. But saying people need to pay better attention for one thing but not the other in such situations is to be frank just ludicrous.

The guy kneeling and pointing directly at you is much easier to see than one who is running around like everyone else, but with bouts of stealth, and could be targeting anyone for all you know.

All you have to do is dodge once. Or block. Or interrupt if close enough. Or reflect projectiles (if he’s a proper glass cannon he will actually die from this, which is hilarious).

Also note that this is basically a highlight reel. Many of the people he gets insane crits on are up leveled / up scaled 80s. Imagine what happens if someone decent actually gasp targets him!

Beyond that, this is WvW. Try this in sPvP LOL

For every shot he does 15k+, he did 3 which hit less than 5k. He doesn’t show you those, though.

Montages show nothing about balance. Most people he kills are <50% hp.

LameFox.6349:

Kuroin.1703:

Brunners.7251:

In my mind they’re completely different scenarios.

99% of the time you can see the warrior kneeling and pointing a large gun at you, and if you can’t you need to pay more attention.

100% of the time you have no idea you’re about to die to a backstab from a thief.

Warning, stupidity will be found in overflow above.

If you can’t see a thief moving in on you or having your teammates ping him or anything such then perhaps you need to keep your eyes open sir.

In WVW as that was recorded in, it can be chaotic and very hard to see when a warrior kneels down to shoot you since he can do this from 1500 range. Obviously the same goes for any class that has burst. But saying people need to pay better attention for one thing but not the other in such situations is to be frank just ludicrous.

The guy kneeling and pointing directly at you is much easier to see than one who is running around like everyone else, but with bouts of stealth, and could be targeting anyone for all you know.

All you have to do is dodge once. Or block. Or interrupt if close enough. Or reflect projectiles (if he’s a proper glass cannon he will actually die from this, which is hilarious).

About the reflects…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSKr8dkTi8&feature=plcp

Yup… gotta be careful with those things, you’ll shoot your eye out!

WvW, enough said.
Under the cover of chaos, amazing crits & absurd damage happens.

If it happened during sPvP then the opposing group must have been bad, because honestly I don’t see how its gonna work in an organised play.

Kain.3485:

my glass cannons

Saw this and realised it was a post not to be taken seriously.

So why does different rules go for thieves and warriors? When its about thieves people say “1 shot shouldn’t be viable” bla bla, when its a warrior it instead “BUT HE HAD TIME TO DODGE”. If it’s not allowed in one it shouldn’t be allowed in the other, you can dodge a thief also it’s just harder, on the other hand if you do he is in your face and without much ways of dealing great damage while the warrior is 1500 range away. People just see things one way, there are 2 sides to every coin.

Kuroin.1703:

So why does different rules go for thieves and warriors?

Because it helps you feel like a victim of some injustice when you generalize that ‘people’ say one thing and ‘people’ also say some other thing. I mean clearly they share some kind of hive mind and are discriminating against you, rather than just saying all sorts of unrelated things.

This stuff only happens in WvW by someone who stacked all damage bonuses against upleveled characters with less than minimum toughness due to having lvl2 white gear.

You will not see a single successful rifle warrior in s/t pvp, because of how incredibly easy it is to completely avoid all rifle damage, and due to how low rifle damage actually is without all those WvW-only stats. Kill shots there might do 5K damage, IF anyone would actually get hit by it, which doesn’t happen.

Threads like the latest ones in thief and warrior forums really make me hope anet doesn’t listen to forum complaints, and just tests things for themselves. I’m starting to realize why anet doesn’t give much feedback on these forums, it would just be pointless at this stage with these large amounts of uneducated players that are posting.

Don’t start screaming nerf unless you are ready for your class to be nerfed…pfft

Kuroin.1703:

So why does different rules go for thieves and warriors? When its about thieves people say “1 shot shouldn’t be viable” bla bla, when its a warrior it instead “BUT HE HAD TIME TO DODGE”. If it’s not allowed in one it shouldn’t be allowed in the other, you can dodge a thief also it’s just harder, on the other hand if you do he is in your face and without much ways of dealing great damage while the warrior is 1500 range away. People just see things one way, there are 2 sides to every coin.

Kill Shot does about 7k damage against a medium armored target.
Players that are hit by a 21k Kill Shot are also hit by a 21k Backstab, a 13k C&D, a 13k Mug, a 12k Cluster Bomb, a 6k auto attack from a Longbow Ranger, basically everything would one-shot those players.

Guy killing upscalled lvl80s at WvW.

I usually deal 4k dmg at WvW to lvl80s
7-10k to upscaled ones…. And i’m on Vit-Tough build.

So it just shows that stacks of mights and debuffs what can do when the enemy is upscaled.

Kuroin.1703:

Brunners.7251:

In my mind they’re completely different scenarios.

99% of the time you can see the warrior kneeling and pointing a large gun at you, and if you can’t you need to pay more attention.

100% of the time you have no idea you’re about to die to a backstab from a thief.

Warning, stupidity will be found in overflow above.

If you can’t see a thief moving in on you or having your teammates ping him or anything such then perhaps you need to keep your eyes open sir.

In WVW as that was recorded in, it can be chaotic and very hard to see when a warrior kneels down to shoot you since he can do this from 1500 range. Obviously the same goes for any class that has burst. But saying people need to pay better attention for one thing but not the other in such situations is to be frank just ludicrous.

I keep my eyes open, all the time, and I am amazed if you genuinely think the warrior and his Kill Shot are even in the same ball park as the thief burst.

This can be justified by warriors as much as they like but if thief is nerfed into the ground next patch, expect a boatload of ex thieves rolling sniper warriors. Thus bringing builds like this more into the open which will lead to more cries of nerf for warriors.

And the cycle begins once again, so be careful what you wish for when calling nerf on another class.

I was in a spvp match today where a warrior was doing over 16k damage with 100b. Why is it that people like to justify glass cannon warriors by saying they have no defense while glass cannon thieves are still considered op? A backstab is harder to land than 100b.

If you must land it the proper way, then the answer is yes. with steal its pretty much the same thing as pressing Bulls Charge (CnD) – Frenzy (Steal) – 100 Blades (backstab), wich requires the skills that a monkey would be able to learn. sure you can see the warr coming if you wanna use that as an argument, that why you blind side people. when i see a thief in the far distance coming and popping venoms, over wich button do you think i will start hoovering my finger? it begins with S and it ends with Tunbreak

Kuroin.1703:

So why does different rules go for thieves and warriors?

Because 1 shotting someone from stealth is still not the same as 1 shotting in plain sight, also if the thief misses he can stealth run away or come back and try again in a few seconds….

if a warrior misses, he’s dead meat !
no escape abilities whatsoever specially these paper thin warriors.

ZombiesTT.3619:

I was in a spvp match today where a warrior was doing over 16k damage with 100b. Why is it that people like to justify glass cannon warriors by saying they have no defense while glass cannon thieves are still considered op? A backstab is harder to land than 100b.

Stealth is the key factor here about your argument.

you can always see the warrior and a skilled player will most of the time avoid a frenzy 100B !

a 20K backstab from stealth is near impossible to evade.

again stealth is here the defining factor

Latinkuro.9420:

a 20K backstab from stealth is near impossible to evade.

Implying backstab hits for 20k. If you’re looking to present a valid argument at least use legitimate, or semi-legitimate numbers.

Fade.5904:

This can be justified by warriors as much as they like but if thief is nerfed into the ground next patch, expect a boatload of ex thieves rolling sniper warriors. Thus bringing builds like this more into the open which will lead to more cries of nerf for warriors.

And the cycle begins once again, so be careful what you wish for when calling nerf on another class.

If this sort of build becomes more popular, it will probably just result in a lot of dead warriors. It kinda relies on nobody paying you much attention.

They shouldn’t because they’re either Balanced or Underpowered.

This is quite overpowered but it’s not going to get nerfed.

It’s getting fixed.

Piercing and warrior bug(same as bladetrail).

So yeah, bugs will be bugs.

Fade.5904:

This can be justified by warriors as much as they like but if thief is nerfed into the ground next patch, expect a boatload of ex thieves rolling sniper warriors. Thus bringing builds like this more into the open which will lead to more cries of nerf for warriors.

And the cycle begins once again, so be careful what you wish for when calling nerf on another class.

There’s no justification.

This is a warrior specific bug and will be fixed.

Djinn.7213:

This is quite overpowered but it’s not going to get nerfed.

It’s getting fixed.

Piercing and warrior bug(same as bladetrail).

So yeah, bugs will be bugs.

Can you cite where you found this info please? Quite a few things I’ve been waiting to see fixed, did they announce any other fixes?

Fade.5904:

This can be justified by warriors as much as they like but if thief is nerfed into the ground next patch, expect a boatload of ex thieves rolling sniper warriors. Thus bringing builds like this more into the open which will lead to more cries of nerf for warriors.

Once they are max-level and have max-equipment they start complaining that Warriors are too weak because Kill Shot does only about half as much damage as the BS combo does currently.

ZombiesTT.3619:

I was in a spvp match today where a warrior was doing over 16k damage with 100b. Why is it that people like to justify glass cannon warriors by saying they have no defense while glass cannon thieves are still considered op? A backstab is harder to land than 100b.

The 100B combo has huge visual tells, the Backstab combo has virtually none; that’s the main reason why the 100B combo is fine while the Backstab one is not. Also Thieves have far better survivability and support.

“Once they are max-level and have max-equipment they start complaining that Warriors are too weak because Kill Shot does only about half as much damage as the BS combo does currently. "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU&feature=youtu.be
So your saying BS does around 64k dmg?
(42secs in…multiple 32k+ crits)

This video is taken in spvp so stop talking about it only doing that kind of damage to undergeared boosted players in WvW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t-H1zpdg7dU#t=39s

The 32k ‘combo’ isn’t killshot.

I feel bad for the UP warriors only hitting 30k dmg from 1200 range. They need stealth also. )

I like it how when a warrior is hit by a backstab thief for 8k he gets to spam the thief forums for nerfs (and the devs actually listen) but you complain that everyone should shut up because 20k instant damage from 1200 range is very normal and counterable.

Oh the bias….

supergica.8652:

I like it how when a warrior is hit by a backstab thief for 8k he gets to spam the thief forums for nerfs (and the devs actually listen) but you complain that everyone should shut up because 20k instant damage from 1200 range is very normal and counterable.

Oh the bias….

Because a skill that first needs adrenaline charging and then has a 1¾ second self-snare and cast time is the same as a skill that can be used 3-4 times in a row and is stealthed?
1¾ is enough time for anyone to dodge or use a block skill. It’s enough to use condition removal to remove immobilize and dodge.

And it won’t hit 20k in sPvP.

Comparing apples and oranges.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Because a skill that first needs adrenaline charging and then has a 1¾ second self-snare and cast time is the same as a skill that can be used 3-4 times in a row and is stealthed?
1¾ is enough time for anyone to dodge or use a block skill. It’s enough to use condition removal to remove immobilize and dodge.

And it won’t hit 20k in sPvP.

Comparing apples and oranges.

3-4 times in row? Really? Did you even bother to read how Backstab works? And who says you cannot block it or dodge it? And the stealth argument is even more ridiculous, if you come in stealth and just hit someone it just does 4-5k and have to wait 3 more seconds to be able to enter stealth again

Any thief worth his salt will use the cloak and dagger+steal+backstab combination, and that what’s causes spike damage. So it’s a combination of three skills, you have to come in relatively close range (so it is visible) and time it perfectly. What does a warrior do, press F1 and wait one second… And you have a signet for building adrenaline, you come in full.

And the last part about sPVP, yeah, it probably does less damage there, but so is the thief, you’ll never see the big numbers with backstab there anymore.

Seriously, it’s a gimmicky build and so is the backstab build for thiefs. Let’s not argue about that. What I want to point out is the fact that the profeesions are not treated fair, and that the players are always biased toward their class heavily.

supergica.8652:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Because a skill that first needs adrenaline charging and then has a 1¾ second self-snare and cast time is the same as a skill that can be used 3-4 times in a row and is stealthed?
1¾ is enough time for anyone to dodge or use a block skill. It’s enough to use condition removal to remove immobilize and dodge.

And it won’t hit 20k in sPvP.

Comparing apples and oranges.

3-4 times in row? Really? Did you even bother to read how Backstab works? And who says you cannot block it or dodge it? And the stealth argument is even more ridiculous, if you come in stealth and just hit someone it just does 4-5k and have to wait 3 more seconds to be able to enter stealth again

Seriously, it’s a gimmicky build and so is the backstab build for thiefs. Let’s not argue about that. What I want to point out is the fact that the profeesions are not treated fair, and that the players are always biased toward their class heavily.

Sure you can block Backstab, if you are a Guardian. It’s hard to block if you can’t see it coming. It costs Initiative so you can use it atleast 4 times, probably more if traited into initiative. Block it once, no problem.

I don’t even play Rifle Warrior. I’m against unjustified nerfs. I’m posting the same thing in the Thief forum where people whine about exaggerated 20k-in-1-second bursts.

Montages such as provided in this thread (and others) prove nothing. Yeah, you see him downing (=/=killing) people with glasscannon builds in a short time using certain skills, but you don’t see him being useless for 60-90 seconds afterwards.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Sure you can block Backstab, if you are a Guardian. It’s hard to block if you can’t see it coming. It costs Initiative so you can use it atleast 4 times, probably more if traited into initiative. Block it once, no problem.

I don’t even play Rifle Warrior. I’m against unjustified nerfs. I’m posting the same thing in the Thief forum where people whine about exaggerated 20k-in-1-second bursts.

Montages such as provided in this thread (and others) prove nothing. Yeah, you see him downing (=/=killing) people with glasscannon builds in a short time using certain skills, but you don’t see him being useless for 60-90 seconds afterwards.

Like I said, you are not familiar with how the Backstab works. It doesn’t matter how much initiative it cost. You can only use it once and then you are out of stealth and have to wait 3.3 to enter again (if you break stealth you get the debuff that you cannot enter again for 3.3 seconds). And why do you say you have to be a guardian? You have the 5 skill on the shield IIRC, it will block everything for 5 seconds. If the glass canon thief hits his opening skills on the block he will try to run away, he has nothing left.

I agree that such montages should not be used for balancing, but the thief’s forum has been spammed with nerf cries in response to such videos and examples provided by underleveled chars. And so anet has taken notice and repeatedly nerfed the thief despite abundant contrary evidence. It’s only fair that the same approach should be taken to the other professions wouldn’t you say?

PvP shouldn’t and probably never be balanced around WvW.

It should and is balanced around sPvP.
Go find me a warrior that runs with a rifle in sPvP and is successful. Go roll a lvl 1 warrior alt and try playing a rifle warrior in sPvP.

Even if they nerfed rifle i won’t care as long as they balance everything along sPvP in the long run (which means thieves will overall get nerfed probably several more times and warriors will be untouched and/or buffed since we are the worst sPvP class).

You don’t need a montage video to know thieves need a nerf.

Go play sPvP, and look at how many people are playing thieves. Alot of the times around half of the players in a match are playing a thief. Hell, even I have a low level thief alt i roll around with in hot join pub stomps. Its simple, its safe, and its devastating.

supergica.8652:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Sure you can block Backstab, if you are a Guardian. It’s hard to block if you can’t see it coming. It costs Initiative so you can use it atleast 4 times, probably more if traited into initiative. Block it once, no problem.

I don’t even play Rifle Warrior. I’m against unjustified nerfs. I’m posting the same thing in the Thief forum where people whine about exaggerated 20k-in-1-second bursts.

Montages such as provided in this thread (and others) prove nothing. Yeah, you see him downing (=/=killing) people with glasscannon builds in a short time using certain skills, but you don’t see him being useless for 60-90 seconds afterwards.

Like I said, you are not familiar with how the Backstab works. It doesn’t matter how much initiative it cost. You can only use it once and then you are out of stealth and have to wait 3.3 to enter again (if you break stealth you get the debuff that you cannot enter again for 3.3 seconds). And why do you say you have to be a guardian? You have the 5 skill on the shield IIRC, it will block everything for 5 seconds. If the glass canon thief hits his opening skills on the block he will try to run away, he has nothing left.

I agree that such montages should not be used for balancing, but the thief’s forum has been spammed with nerf cries in response to such videos and examples provided by underleveled chars. And so anet has taken notice and repeatedly nerfed the thief despite abundant contrary evidence. It’s only fair that the same approach should be taken to the other professions wouldn’t you say?

Abundant contrary evidence? All I’ve seen is evidence to suggest that not only can the thief have a (very high) chance of hitting some insane burst damage, he can then very easily escape if it all goes kitten up.

Warriors can do one or the other. Thieves can do both. That’s where I see the main difference.

Also, the fact that, no matter what you say, a warrior would have to have a run of good fortune to block a backstab.

Recently.1043:

You don’t need a montage video to know thieves need a nerf.

Go play sPvP, and look at how many people are playing thieves. Alot of the times around half of the players in a match are playing a thief. Hell, even I have a low level thief alt i roll around with in hot join pub stomps. Its simple, its safe, and its devastating.

Great logic, just because a class is more played than others it must be definitely OP…

Not to mention the fact that guardians and mesmers are more played at top level PVP, but what do they know right? The game should be balanced on sPVP where every one rolls a thief because they “pwn n00bs”. Let’s face it, that’s why most play it, because is very effective against low skilled players, and those compromise the majority of sPVP. It’s not OP after you learn the game a little and when they nerf it it becomes downright weak facing high skilled players.

But this is the warriors forum, no matter how absurd some skills are, they are never OP, as anet put it, “the warrior is in a good place right now”…

So let me understand this – when a warrior specs for high dmge and low survivability that’s okay because the guy doesn’t know his own class.

However, when a class that is built for high dmge and low survivability actually has high dmge – that’s just wrong a needs a nerf?

Thieves need a nerf because they can kill warriors, but warriors should be able to spec higher dmge and still have more surviviability than thieves?

Let’s be honest, people don’t like the thief class because no one likes getting owned 1v1 and that is what the class is designed to do.

Want an effective counter to the thief – run in a group – problem solved.

Rystlwulf.1476:

So let me understand this – when a warrior specs for high dmge and low survivability that’s okay because the guy doesn’t know his own class.

However, when a class that is built for high dmge and low survivability actually has high dmge – that’s just wrong a needs a nerf?

Thieves need a nerf because they can kill warriors, but warriors should be able to spec higher dmge and still have more surviviability than thieves?

Let’s be honest, people don’t like the thief class because no one likes getting owned 1v1 and that is what the class is designed to do.

Want an effective counter to the thief – run in a group – problem solved.

Except the thief is inherently highly survivable because it has insane escape ability. The thief can waltz in, spike damage and then he’s off again.

The warrior doesn’t have that option. If he’s speccing to do damage he’s hanging around to do that damage because he’s got very little option to go anywhere.

Thief = Spike damage AND escape
Warrior = Spike damage OR escape.

Kuroin.1703:

So why does different rules go for thieves and warriors? When its about thieves people say “1 shot shouldn’t be viable” bla bla, when its a warrior it instead “BUT HE HAD TIME TO DODGE”. If it’s not allowed in one it shouldn’t be allowed in the other, you can dodge a thief also it’s just harder, on the other hand if you do he is in your face and without much ways of dealing great damage while the warrior is 1500 range away. People just see things one way, there are 2 sides to every coin.

You’ve got to learn warrior and thief classes before claiming such a thing please.

1. - You’re wrong, warrior’s rifle range is 1200 not 1500 and has a 1.75 second highly visible cast time (because you advertise it by taking a knee and pointing at the target).
2. - You’re wrong, Steal+CnD+Backstab hits for 20k in less than one second and it can be precasted from 900.

If you don’t understand ‘precasting’ try it out. You can begin casting CnD from 900, which has a 0.5 second cast time, and in the middle of the cast time hit Steal, then autoattack. Congratulations, you just did 20,000 damage for the low low cost of 6 initiative and it took 0.75 seconds.

(It can be traited down to 4 initiative to make matters worse via 5 traits into Shadow Arts — now spend your 6 or 8 left over initiative and your overpowered stolen ability)
PS. See why people think Thieves need a nerf? Not to mention stealth not rendering for extra 2-4 seconds from server side issues …

Fade.5904:

“Once they are max-level and have max-equipment they start complaining that Warriors are too weak because Kill Shot does only about half as much damage as the BS combo does currently. "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-H1zpdg7dU&feature=youtu.be
So your saying BS does around 64k dmg?
(42secs in…multiple 32k+ crits)

[Berserker’s Power] is bugged, some abilities gain extra damage every time you pierce a foe, however this is not the explanation for those damage numbers. Also channeled skills like Volley don’t display the damage of each hit but the damage over the entire duration, so that Volley didn’t do those supposed 32k+ in one hit put each hit dealt about 6k damage, however this is neither the explanation for those numbers.
The truth is revealed to you if you look at the video closely (e.g. download the video in high quality and look at it frame for frame), then you will notice that there are three numbers behind those 30k+ hits (and the other ones as well). That means that Volley hit the first guy for 5k (meaning ~1k each hit) and the guy behind for 3k (meaning ~600 each hit).
Doesn’t look that overpowered anymore, right?