Guild Wars 2

Greetings dear warrior fellows!

As you all know, the warrior has recived many nerfs in the past and next patch might as a boon gets slightly nerfed too wich feels like a dog weeing to a phalanx leg.
Warriors are no longer a top tier dps class. Other classes outdamage us and that not only slightly. The warrior fits no more in an egoistic build (6/6/0/2/0 or 6/5/0/0/3) when he is the only one of his kind in a party. Let’s face the truth – in pugs phalanx became superior to the common just mentioned builds. But what about organized parties where 25 stacks might can be sustained without a phalanx war?

I have made many thought about what’s best for the team, rather than what’s best for me. A common face-to-desk situation I always see are warriors refusing to use multiple banners. Why would a warrior use a power signet over a power banner in a party? Because of it’s CD and "death"time? Please … The warrior itself deals minor damage more with the signet, the party itself suffers.

According to this thinking I came to the solution of a smart support warrior. Providing all the banner bonuses (170 power, condition damage, precision, ferocity) combined with empower allies (+150 power FOR EVERYONE) and abandoning the greatsword in order to get a really strong auto attack makes this playstyle superior for organized parties.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRAnX3ZjMd09ZlH2eQHagggyYBEAnPhPY6TGEHBA-TxBBABVcAFwa/R5HAnEg80/EwTKoS1fOTJoYA0D-e

Some minor changes according to dungeon / fotm (like no traited banners but %dmg per boon if the cd is enough to skip from boss to boss, wich is unlikely in fotm but likely in dungeons) etc.

Empower allies is such a great trait wich ofc decreases the warriors damage. However if you add the damage the other deal more with it and decrease the damage the warrior is dealing less with it, the result will be by far over 0.
Passive damage is the true source of damage in this game. It’s not the great 100b or whirlwind damage count that makes a party great. It’s vulnerability of the engi, the time warp of the mesmer, the banners of the warriors, the passive damage increases of the warriors and rangers, the perma fury of the elementalist and might stacks in general that makes the party damage great! Passive damage is the number that is higher at someone elses screen, because – of – YOU!
The goal in a fight is it to grant as many buffs as possible to the true damage dealers in the game. For aoe engi and ele, for single target thief (or mes wenn 3 swordsmen are sustainable and the fight takes ages), for reflection (precision / ferocity) guard, thief, maybe a little bit engi, etc.

Dear warrior fellows – what do you think about my thoughts.
I’m not explaining you that I’m right. I’m talking to you to find out if I’m not!

Greez Xyonon

So in other words the warrior has been nerfed to the ground so we can be relegated to the role of support so a bunch of other characters can run around in zerker gear. What if I prefer to play alone, am I supposed to suffer so others can have a buff buddy? What happened to no trinity?

DPS warriors already get banners. The CD trait really adds nothing.

Your build is significantly less DPS than the meta build, and adding empower allies doesn’t close the gap in total party dps.

Offhand axe is literally useless. If you want to support your party you should be applying vulnerability from the mace.

I made a similar build a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jme_2kUY3eM EA builds only make mathematical sense when you had FGS rushing, without it there is no advantage to it.

Widebody.5071:

So in other words the warrior has been nerfed to the ground so we can be relegated to the role of support so a bunch of other characters can run around in zerker gear. What if I prefer to play alone, am I supposed to suffer so others can have a buff buddy? What happened to no trinity?

Yes you are in a support role. But except ele and thief all other clases are taken for the sole purpose of supporting as well.
Thief and ele are the only classes you take for dps reasons.
So tbh,you already have been in a support role before the “nerf”.

In soloplay warrior is still on top because nobody else except ele is able to gain that easy fury and might.

Unnecessary QQ from warrior players again.
Since warriors are part of the meta in Pve and pvp, while many other classes aren’t people shouldn’t complain about.

Yea 66020 or 65003 is still the way to go as solo war, no doubt, since it offer the higest amount of damage. I’d also retrait to this if there is another warrior with the above build in a party, or a phalanx war if required.

You say the damage is less? Yea but not as much as you think. The only thing you trade is up to (!) 18% (28% for GS) damage and 100 power from the Strength traitline for 150 ferocity, 10% damage (AS) for axe, 1% damage per boon on you (wich is most likely 3-5) if traited, and the most amazing 150 power for everyone – so 750 free power for the pt.

It’s only the GS that hurts not beeing used. But even axe offhand has it’s purpose. 1.st it’s a 5 target skill wich applies tons of vuln. 3x axe autoattack or 5x whirl attack against 5 targets -> definitly that one. It’s situational. Maybe even a sword offhand would be worth it for the block against bosses or something. Like against Mai in fotm? And in some rare parts of the game you can even carry a shield with you, like the harpy fotm. Gonna test that too if I get there next time. Maybe even try to trait for reflection, but I doubt that I find skillpoints for that without dropping too much dps(

About the banner trait – it’s useless when you skip from boss to boss and the time is enough to recast the banners or take the old ones. However it’s extremly strong when you have dungeons or fotm, where you are unable to skip all the time. Traited banners have 6 seconds where you don’t have them. Having no banners in a fight where they are on like 20 sec cd, makes you feel bad for having 1% more damage per boon instead of the approximately 10% party dmg increase. Passive damage, I can’t say it often engouh.

If you are reffering to well organized groups vulnerability is not a problem, so the only reason for using axe 5 is…well there is no reason.
Empowered Allies isn’t worth to keep. The additionally dps your party will gain doesn’t compensate your personal dps lost.
EA is worth to take in a Phalanx build because you have to invest in tactics anyway.
Therefore, we also don’t have to discuss whether it’s worse to take the bannertrait or the boontrait.
The answer is you don’t play with 4p in tactic.

Further, greatsword dps builds become in practice even stronger.
You always have little timelags between mightstack rotations, so greatsword will lead to 25 stacks all the time.
Not to mention how powerfull a greatsword 3 can be if it is used against a wall.

dominik.9721:

Widebody.5071:

So in other words the warrior has been nerfed to the ground so we can be relegated to the role of support so a bunch of other characters can run around in zerker gear. What if I prefer to play alone, am I supposed to suffer so others can have a buff buddy? What happened to no trinity?

Yes you are in a support role. But except ele and thief all other clases are taken for the sole purpose of supporting as well.
Thief and ele are the only classes you take for dps reasons.
So tbh,you already have been in a support role before the “nerf”.

In soloplay warrior is still on top because nobody else except ele is able to gain that easy fury and might.

Unnecessary QQ from warrior players again.
Since warriors are part of the meta in Pve and pvp, while many other classes aren’t people shouldn’t complain about.

Not QQing just asking a question, but it seems as though players biased against melee no warriors always throw the QQ card when one of us question a bad update.

Warriors have been nerfed almost every update the last 2 years just about, because of rangers and casters crying in the forums. The sad part is once we adapt and grow into the changes/nerfs a new round of kittening and moaning starts.

Complaints so asinine that people even complain about warriors being to strong in PVE. We get nerfed now people are saying we’re nothing but a support character. Well guess what most of our support potential has been removed,

It seems as this is common in mmo games nerf the melee players but covet their strengths and buffs.

Ok, I made up my mind and took actual numbers and the modifiers for them with those builds and made some math:

Ego Warrior:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAnZRjMd09ZlH2eQHaAgAx8hALumKjuzA-ThRBABUcAFua/R5He6YA4BFQp6PmpEUMA6B-e

Support Warrior:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRAnX3ZjMd09ZlH2eQHagggyYBEAnPhPY6TGEHBA-TxBBABVcAFwa/R5HAnEg80/EwTKoS1fOTJoYA0D-e

Damage numbers according to wiki and calculated per second.
Whirl calculated into a wall, max damage.
Empowered trait (+1% damage per boon) calculated with common boons: regeneration, protection, might, swiftness, fury (5).

Ego Warrior: +100 power and +150 ferocity with traits compared to Support Warrior.
Ego Warrior is able to get might for GS attacks.

• GS aa: 357.5 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 512,4
  traited 5 sec weapon swap allows you to never do a GS aa, yet I display this for those who might go 66020… how terrible this skill is…
• 100b: 566 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 811,2
• whirl: 1000 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 1433,2
• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +3% +15% +10% = +36,8% -> 831,8

Support Warrior: +150 power (for the whole team), +40 prec per sigil (1-2), +150 ferocity with traits compared to Ego Warrior.
Support Warrior is allowed to use F1 skill multiple times during a fight without the 15% damage boost lose. A (sadly here not displayed) huge damage spike if you ask me.

• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +10% +10% +5% = +33,4% -> 811,1

Now if I would calculate the Axe aa with 50 power and 40-80 precision I’m pretty sure it outdamages EVERYTHING but the whirl of the Ego Warrior. And now adding 150 power to all my allies DEFINITLY outdamages the GS whirl aswell if you look at the team dps.

You can say what you want but the build seems pretty solid and aslong as someone or multiple allies can provide the 25 stacks might, lets say engi ele guard, then this build is superior. Otherwise I’m pretty sure phalanx builds will lead to victory. But no more Ego Warrior.

Did I miss something significant?
greez!

PS: You seem right about offhand axe 5# being useless – even against 5 targets the 3 target cleave auto attack deals 20% more damage.

What’s an ego warrior, is it similar to a narcissistic engineer?

Xyonon.3987:

Ok, I made up my mind and took actual numbers and the modifiers for them with those builds and made some math:

Ego Warrior:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAnZRjMd09ZlH2eQHaAgAx8hALumKjuzA-ThRBABUcAFua/R5He6YA4BFQp6PmpEUMA6B-e

Support Warrior:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRAnX3ZjMd09ZlH2eQHagggyYBEAnPhPY6TGEHBA-TxBBABVcAFwa/R5HAnEg80/EwTKoS1fOTJoYA0D-e

Damage numbers according to wiki and calculated per second.
Whirl calculated into a wall, max damage.
Empowered trait (+1% damage per boon) calculated with common boons: regeneration, protection, might, swiftness, fury (5).

---

Ego Warrior: +100 power and +150 ferocity with traits compared to Support Warrior.
Ego Warrior is able to get might for GS attacks.

• GS aa: 357.5 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 512,4
  traited 5 sec weapon swap allows you to never do a GS aa, yet I display this for those who might go 66020… how terrible this skill is…
• 100b: 566 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 811,2
• whirl: 1000 -> +10% +3% +15% +10% = +43,3% -> 1433,2
• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +3% +15% +10% = +36,8% -> 831,8

Support Warrior: +150 power (for the whole team), +40 prec per sigil (1-2), +150 ferocity with traits compared to Ego Warrior.
Support Warrior is allowed to use F1 skill multiple times during a fight without the 15% damage boost lose. A (sadly here not displayed) huge damage spike if you ask me.

• Axe aa: 608 -> +5% +10% +10% +5% = +33,4% -> 811,1

---

Now if I would calculate the Axe aa with 50 power and 40-80 precision I’m pretty sure it outdamages EVERYTHING but the whirl of the Ego Warrior. And now adding 150 power to all my allies DEFINITLY outdamages the GS whirl aswell if you look at the team dps.

You can say what you want but the build seems pretty solid and aslong as someone or multiple allies can provide the 25 stacks might, lets say engi ele guard, then this build is superior. Otherwise I’m pretty sure phalanx builds will lead to victory. But no more Ego Warrior.

Did I miss something significant?
greez!

PS: You seem right about offhand axe 5# being useless – even against 5 targets the 3 target cleave auto attack deals 20% more damage.

Rather than write a wall of text using arcane formulas only you know the internal logic of, why not record a 30 second DPS rotation and post it here: http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewforum/4280892

We will be able to tell you the exact DPS your build puts out and compare it to the meta build.

Due I bug I was unable to login a few days – sry ’bout that

Those “arcane formulas only i know the internal logic of” are nothing else than the wikis damage over the chain duration multiplied with all the trait multipliers a build has.

I’ve asked for someones opinion that has already made the same calculations with a team and when we come to a result I’m gonna post it here

greez!

Xyonon.3987:

Due I bug I was unable to login a few days – sry ’bout that

Those “arcane formulas only i know the internal logic of” are nothing else than the wikis damage over the chain duration multiplied with all the trait multipliers a build has.

I’ve asked for someones opinion that has already made the same calculations with a team and when we come to a result I’m gonna post it here

greez!

If you try to change the meta you should work with groups of ppl that everybody know on the forums and dungeon community so your result have a minimum of recognition. Saying you did the math and someone you know is backing it up won’t be enough. Alternatively you could make a video a team with that build killing a mob faster than the same group but with the standard warrior build.

Don’t worry I’ll do the work for you.

Assumptions: Both banners, 25 Might, 25 Vuln, Bleeding Target, Fury. Post 1/28 Might Nerf. Truffle Steaks.

66002 pure axe: produces 42.05 coefficients every 30 seconds for 1.402 average.

Weapon strength = 1000
Power = 3508
Crit Chance: 97%
Crit Damage: 1.46
Damage mods: 2.39

Total DPS: 10,923.49

=====

GS + AXE/Mace

GS Coefficients every 30 seconds = 33.08 / 30 = 1.103
Axe Coefficients every 30 seconds = 10 / 30 = .334
Eviscerate Coefficients every 30 seconds = 3 / 30 = .1

GS dps = 8873
axe dps = 2331.00
evis = 290.1

Total DPS = 11,494

So Pure axe is about 5% worse dps, is less mobile outside of combat, and less fun to play inside of combat and has significantly less burst DPS since GS damage is very front loaded.

that’s not smart support

because, you have no fire field, no might stack

engi is so much better at appling vulnerability
and deals more damage.

your build wouldn’t even matter, all you need to get is banner.
banner = warrior
no banner = trash wouldn’t even take
banner pretty much keeps warrior by giving him this support role.

Banners are in both builds included.
So actually nobody was discussing about banners

hybrid.5027:

66002 pure axe

That’s not what I was aiming for Thx for your work but you missed my point. The reason why I abandon the GS is that i can go 4 points into tactics for EA. Can you do the same calcualations with my build too? 46040:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQRAnZ3cjMd09ZlH2eQHagggyYBEAnPhPY6TmEHBA-ThRBABUcAFua/R5He6aA4JFQp6PmpEUMA6B-e

I’d be grateful.

Simon.3794:

that’s not smart support

because, you have no fire field, no might stack

engi is so much better at appling vulnerability
and deals more damage.

your build wouldn’t even matter, all you need to get is banner.
banner = warrior
no banner = trash wouldn’t even take
banner pretty much keeps warrior by giving him this support role.

You totally missed the point and should read the thread first before trying to argue.

dominik.9721:

Banners are in both builds included.
So actually nobody was discussing about banners

Exactly. What I am trying to say with the whole thread is that I pretty much beleve: abandoning GS and loss of some personal damage is inferior to trait 4 points into tactics and go for EA to grant everyone 150 power.

Easy way of comparing

http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/

With DPS War: #?eyIxIjpbMCw1LDFdLCIyIjpbMCw2LDFdLCIzIjpbMyw2LDFdLCI0IjpbNiwwLDFdLCI1IjpbMSwyLDFdfQ==

= 61,224

With Pure Axe EA: #?eyIxIjpbMCw1LDFdLCIyIjpbMCw2LDFdLCIzIjpbMyw2LDFdLCI0IjpbNiwwLDFdLCI1IjpbMSw0LDFdfQ==

=61,871

DPS gain of using the EA build of 1.2%. Note: the difference in DPS from the calculator is entirely based on the fact that pure axe generates an additional stack and a half of vuln. If the party caps vuln, such as the ele’s coordinating glyph of storms or using Ice Bow the EA build would in fact be a slight DPS loss.

Hybrid – I just fall in love with you hands a cookie I made some things and looks like as long as someone else provides might stacks (ele), then you can either go 65003 or 46040, doesn’t really matter, tiny dps change. However phalanx seems extremly superior due the overpowered trait – holy moly o.O Staff ele all the way for max dps and phalanx war :O

Ty very very very much for your help!!!