Guild Wars 2

" Like other similiar traits, only unique boons count for the bonus damage. For example, a target with 25 stacks of Might and 1 stack of Fury will increase damage dealt by 6%. " gw2wiki source.

Any of the warriors in here got a “musketeer” build?

I have seen damage going like 10k+ on tanky guardians with kill sthot and i wanted to try it on my warrior.

TANKS in advance.

If you go this route I would suggest you free up a utility spot to pick up signet of might. Honestly though the burst mastery trait I think has overall better utility than the Destruction of the Empowered because the damage increase isn’t high enough to outweigh the general overall effectiveness of burst mastery. Burst Mastery brings utility to every fight.

This trait is terrible.

Check previous threads discussing it or just check my previous replies.

The short cool down is better to kill shot quicker.

The trait isn’t terrible. The trait line bonuses, mostly Brawn, not giving a decent return is the problem.

It’s a PvP trait not PvE where Burst Mastery will outshine it. I would like to see it buffed nonetheless to 4% or 5% per unique buff.

Exedore.6320:

The trait isn’t terrible. The trait line bonuses, mostly Brawn, not giving a decent return is the problem.

Sigh..it is terrible. How many times do we have to go through this?

Let me copy and paste from a previous post:

We need boon ripping not DOE. Here is why:

Boon ripping is not too much for a warrior. It is a MUST.

Let us compare with some other classes that have had these abilities since launch-mesmers/necros- or got them now even though they are already OP-thieves-:

-Thieves: Have a WEAPON skill with ZERO cooldown that STEALS two boons..not increases damage..not removes boons..STEALS them
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike
This uses 4 initiative in total and thieves have 12-15 initiative with it ticking or replenished with some other traits while it is being used. That means they can spam it 3 times in a row or more. Also, notice that the 1st attack of that chain EVADES and the 2nd is UNBLOCKABLE…wow..make my class carry me more please, Anet! -as intended I’m sure!-

-Mesmers: Instant AOE complete boon removal and condition removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field
Necros: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon enough said

How can Anyone after that say that boon ripping is ‘too much’ for a warrior? Maybe if you are new to the class and have no idea what other classes are capable of.

And if you think that destruction of the empowered is good..here is why it isn’t:
DOE can’t even break through protection.

Just a reminder about protection:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection

DOE is useless against a guardian whom it should be the most effective against.

I’ll explain it again -really need to create a word document for it-:

Save yourselves shout: One of the most ridiculous abilities in the game with the Highest number of boons per ability in the game on a guardian: 7 boons.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Save_Yourselves!%22

-So that is 3×7=21% extra damage. One of those boons is protection so 33% damage reduction-21% increased damage= 12% reduction of damage.
-So you can’t even break through the protection.
-Also, regen is running and they have heals firing off so its now even worse.
-Retaliation is up and so your hurting yourself more with this ability.
Ele? 4 boons up including protection? 33-12=21% damage reduction with DOE.
Engy? Same thing when they have protection up.

So in every case scenario you can’t even break through the protection.

Also, it needs boons to be up. We have traits that give us passive increase in damage all the time which you can spec into and are 10% flat increase regardless of boons so close to 12% which is the equivalent of DOE on a 4 boon target.

I tried it extensively and it does jack kitten against guardians who know how to face roll through their buttons. You still end up backing off when they pop their ‘Save yourselves’ shout. So basically its pointless.

Elias.4028:

It’s a PvP trait not PvE where Burst Mastery will outshine it. I would like to see it buffed nonetheless to 4% or 5% per unique buff.

Buffing the damage is useless. They will never buff it that much as it will hurt non protection boon using classes too much.

We need boon stripping plain and simple.

So some stuff:
Null Field says it removes all boons and conditions. It doesn’t… and everyone should now that 10 months into the game…
It pulses once per second and removes 1 boon and 1 condition.

Then, damage modifiers like Destruction of the Empowered and Protection are most likely not just added (substracted) from each other.
They are multiplied:
Damage * DotE_Bonus * Protection_Bonus

Lets say with 8 boons including protection on 1000 damage:
1000 * (1+8 * 0.03)* 0.67 = 830

So the reduction/bonus is:

• (1+uniqueBoonCount*0.03) * (1-(hasProtection * 0.33)) with
  • hasProtection == true -> 1
  • hasProtection == false -> 0

XII, what you probably never thought of, is something like protection should always work against warriors. It for example also always works against guardians, rangers, eles and engineer.
That is 4 out of 8 classes with no way to stop protection (50% of all classes).
Necro, Mesmer and Thief can bypass protection by using certain tools (although necro is pretty bad in that regard, with extreme long cooldowns).

• Mesmer → Shattered Concentration
• Thief → Larcenous Strike

These two are the best ways around boons because they have extreme low cooldowns.
Necro, while having boon removal, has to give up utility slots and has to take weapons like focus aswell, and does not have close the boon removal thief and mesmer got.

Necro is basically on a same level as warrior with Destruction of the Empowered when it comes to boonhate (that includes both, removal and getting better with more boons on the target).

Warrior probably isn’t meant to bypass protection completely, but Desctruction of the Empowered is a trait which helps bypass it partly.
So it is by no means useless. You are still dealing more damage to a guardian as you said in your example, than without that trait.
On the over side, on targets without protection warrior is the topdog when it comes to boon hate, followed by mesmer then thief.

I think the problem is that if I go 30 points into discipline, it’s only because I need to get Burst Mastery. Otherwise, I haven’t seen many people going past 15.

The ones that trait Burst Mastery do so because it is CRUCIAL in their build (for example Hammer lockdown ones). No way any of them will be willing to dump burst mastery for destruction of the empowered: they would end up destroying their rotation. As a hammer warrior, the ability to use heartshaker and/or skullcrac more often is much more valuable than dealing some % more damage against SOME enemies in SOME occasions.
I think one more stun can be much more useful against a guardian than some more damage.

If DotE wasn’t a grandmaster trait, though…

I find DoE useful, and it would be fine if it weren’t for larcenous strike. That is just OP beyond silly and creates more advantages for a thief compared to warriors (or any other class for that matter). Mesmers can strip boons, sure. But not close to as effective as a thief… You can just evade null field for the most part, and as for the removal on shatter, same thing.

Either warriors need more against boons (like something specific against protection) or thieves need that move nerfed. Both would do better.

Right DotE is garbage because it was made for extremely situational plays to get any sort of benefit of it your target has to have every boon on it and you essentially need to be running evis or killshot and signet of might to make sure the hit lands.

Absolutely garbage trait all this 1+1 theorcrafting bullcrap means nothing when you understand the reality of how the trait actually works on a warrior.

I mean its a freaking gib trait which the warrior sucks at anyways.

AlBundy.7851:

Right DotE is garbage because it was made for extremely situational plays to get any sort of benefit of it your target has to have every boon on it and you essentially need to be running evis or killshot and signet of might to make sure the hit lands.

Absolutely garbage trait all this 1+1 theorcrafting bullcrap means nothing when you understand the reality of how the trait actually works on a warrior.

More than that, I’d rather have burst mastery with eviscerate and killshot than DotE.

Expecially if Berserker Stance is slotted.

ya I mean the biggest actual changes for that last balance patch was burst mastery and the cast time reduction on fan of fire which is still doo doo lol.

Varonth.5830:

So some stuff:
Null Field says it removes all boons and conditions. It doesn’t… and everyone should now that 10 months into the game…
It pulses once per second and removes 1 boon and 1 condition.

Then, damage modifiers like Destruction of the Empowered and Protection are most likely not just added (substracted) from each other.
They are multiplied:
Damage * DotE_Bonus * Protection_Bonus

Lets say with 8 boons including protection on 1000 damage:
1000 * (1+8 * 0.03)* 0.67 = 830

So the reduction/bonus is:

• (1+uniqueBoonCount*0.03) * (1-(hasProtection * 0.33)) with
  • hasProtection == true -> 1
  • hasProtection == false -> 0

XII, what you probably never thought of, is something like protection should always work against warriors. It for example also always works against guardians, rangers, eles and engineer.
That is 4 out of 8 classes with no way to stop protection (50% of all classes).
Necro, Mesmer and Thief can bypass protection by using certain tools (although necro is pretty bad in that regard, with extreme long cooldowns).

• Mesmer -> Shattered Concentration
• Thief -> Larcenous Strike

These two are the best ways around boons because they have extreme low cooldowns.
Necro, while having boon removal, has to give up utility slots and has to take weapons like focus aswell, and does not have close the boon removal thief and mesmer got.

Necro is basically on a same level as warrior with Destruction of the Empowered when it comes to boonhate (that includes both, removal and getting better with more boons on the target).

Warrior probably isn’t meant to bypass protection completely, but Desctruction of the Empowered is a trait which helps bypass it partly.
So it is by no means useless. You are still dealing more damage to a guardian as you said in your example, than without that trait.
On the over side, on targets without protection warrior is the topdog when it comes to boon hate, followed by mesmer then thief.

1.Nice try about the Null field..it removes one boon yes..but it removes it from up to 5 targets each second so that is 5 boons per second? This is a team game so sounds preeeetty neat to me!
It can also cause confusion or blind if traited into.
So not only does it remove conditions from MULTIPLE targets and rips boons from MULTIPLE targets but it can also apply conditions to MULTIPLE targets? I dunno..that sounds way more OP than DOE.

2.Nice calculations..I’m not sure why you listed them since in the end it just states the obvious that our bonus damage with DOE still does not negate the damage reduction offered by protection. So in the end, our damage is still mitigated with a trait that is 30 points down a tree few of us go to..? So basically..it fails to help us against a single condition as opposed to simply..removing that condition..

I think anyone here agrees that removing protection is way more powerful than increasing the damage to a degree that can’t even overcome the damage reduction offered by protection. I know. I kinda play the warrior extensively and have tested that trait.

3.Yes..I never thought that protection is supposed to protect from other players damage..like warriors. Anyway, It works against Guardians, Eles,Rangers, Engys..who also have access to it? So..it balances out? Cool.
Mesmers/necros and thieves can remove it? Yes.. But thieve’s and mesmers cant easily remove it..oh yes..they can stealth/teleport/shadowstep till it burns out. Cool.
Warriors have no access to protection..warriors have no way of removing protection..

As for your point about necros having to use a weapon to remove boons..why would they?

They can equip a lolly pop and still remove boons like a champ:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon

40 s cool down and can be on shorter cool downs..That thing is enough to destroy a guardian..

and this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption

I don’t think necros are forced into focus to get this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers

They have two utility skills on reasonable cool downs without being traited in.

Notice how all of the above makes DOE a joke?

I dunno man..but it sounds to me like the warrior class is the only class that is screwed when it comes to protection in this game.. Were forced to go 30 points in a line we don’t want and forced to leave burst mastery in order to get a skill that is suboptimal at the best of times and inferior to any boon ripping any class has? Sounds like a bad deal to me.

Theorycrafting -and discussing dust prices with passion!- is nice but it doesn’t hold when your supposed to be a dominant melee class and have a BM ranger or a guardian wipe the floor with you.

Have fun convincing warrior players being smacked around that that trait is good.

You could even look at it this way Arenanet had the chance to design a whole new trait for a class a whole new grandmaster trait. What do they come up with an enemy based empowered HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

XII.9401:

1.Nice try about the Null field..it removes one boon yes..but it removes it from up to 5 targets each second so that is 5 boons per second? This is a team game so sounds preeeetty neat to me!
It can also cause confusion or blind if traited into.
So not only does it remove conditions from MULTIPLE targets and rips boons from MULTIPLE targets but it can also apply conditions to MULTIPLE targets? I dunno..that sounds way more OP than DOE.

2.Nice calculations..I’m not sure why you listed them since in the end it just states the obvious that our bonus damage with DOE still does not negate the damage reduction offered by protection. So in the end, our damage is still mitigated with a trait that is 30 points down a tree few of us go to..? So basically..it fails to help us against a single condition as opposed to simply..removing that condition..

I think anyone here agrees that removing protection is way more powerful than increasing the damage to a degree that can’t even overcome the damage reduction offered by protection. I know. I kinda play the warrior extensively and have tested that trait.

3.Yes..I never thought that protection is supposed to protect from other players damage..like warriors. Anyway, It works against Guardians, Eles,Rangers, Engys..who also have access to it? So..it balances out? Cool.
Mesmers/necros and thieves can remove it? Yes.. But thieve’s and mesmers cant easily remove it..oh yes..they can stealth/teleport/shadowstep till it burns out. Cool.
Warriors have no access to protection..warriors have no way of removing protection..

As for your point about necros having to use a weapon to remove boons..why would they?

They can equip a lolly pop and still remove boons like a champ:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon

40 s cool down and can be on shorter cool downs..That thing is enough to destroy a guardian..

and this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption

I don’t think necros are forced into focus to get this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers

They have two utility skills on reasonable cool downs without being traited in.

Notice how all of the above makes DOE a joke?

I dunno man..but it sounds to me like the warrior class is the only class that is screwed when it comes to protection in this game.. Were forced to go 30 points in a line we don’t want and forced to leave burst mastery in order to get a skill that is suboptimal at the best of times and inferior to any boon ripping any class has? Sounds like a bad deal to me.

Theorycrafting -and discussing dust prices with passion!- is nice but it doesn’t hold when your supposed to be a dominant melee class and have a BM ranger or a guardian wipe the floor with you.

Have fun convincing warrior players being smacked around that that trait is good.

Were did I ever said the trait is good as it is right now? You are interpreting stuff into my post that I never wrote.

I just corrected alot of false statements that you wrote.
I actually showed that your calculation on DotE is making it better than it actually is against protection.
You tested it alot you say? Yet you are wrong.
I would never slot DotE over burst mastery in my builds which involve 30 into discipline.

But saying stuff like Null Field removing all boons. Want to know what happens when a guardian places any symbol? They pulse boons once per second, and all your null field will do is removing that pulse boon a fraction of a second after it got applied.

The real boon removal is shattered concentration on a mesmer, because… well that thing removes up to 4 boons with a single shatter. And mind wrack does alot of damage on top of that and is on a 10.5s cooldown.
It also hits on AoE.
That is far superior to Null Field.

Null Field is more a tool to prevent new boons, instead of stripping them.

And long cooldowns are a significant factor when it comes to boon remove.
That is why necro falls short in this. Having it dodged/blinded is far more damaging on a 40 second cooldown, than dodging a larcenous strike or parts of a shatter.
And of course this requires one of three utility slots, and this isn’t needed for thief/mesmer. DotE doesn’t take a utility slot either.

Well but complaining is part of the standard warrior. People like Defektive seem to do well with the class.

Cool story, bro. I’m gonna go back to playing my warrior class and not spamming forums trying to downplay how OP the mesmer class is/theorycrafting/discussing pve stuff like dust prices.
(BTW, Varnoth plays a mesmer. Maybe he will say he stopped playing him as he will claim. Check his previous posts complaining of how stupid the mesmer community is..notice a pattern?)

How about you frap how effective DOE is against a good guardian in spvp? I’d love to see how you demonstrate that the class is fine. Don’t forget where the DOE . Here is the link to assist the theory crafting:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Empowered

I’m curious though..if you think DOE is good..and you tested it extensively..how come its not in your spvp build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBiYDbE0J5t5RGiJOAcKok6BctFX6hYslGA-TsAA0CvIySllLLTWyssZNQYFy2CA

hmm..Maybe math will help you come up with a good answer to that one.

Till then..all your doing is theory crafting, not actually testing the abilities extensively, trying to defend your theory crafting and being all over the place. Hell! They might even hire you as a dev for class balance with those credentials!

As for referring to a single player as an example that the class is fine:

-Are we talking about the same defektive whom you corrected how the sword immobilize is on a 7-9s cool down compared with the relatively long longbow immobilize cool down?

-The one that posted all the builds as ‘target support’ aka someone has to baby sit me in high end tourneys?

There are good warrior players but the main problem with the class is not the lack of good players..its that there is just so much we can do with a bad class as opposed to playing a mesmer or guardian instead. Stop attacking the warrior community and blaming the failings of the class on the players.

If you were right, then why is Anet planing on fixes for the class? Must be because of all the ‘bad’ warrior players, huh?

Amigo..we don’t think the class is fine if we have to be baby sat by other players. That is not doing well. That is called being carried by other classes..
If that is your style of play then power to you!

Summary:
You play/played a mesmer
You don’t even use DOE
You downplay the OPeness of the mesmer class and apparently think the warrior class is fine and we are mostly bad players.
Your good at math when proving the obvious. Hows the Lead Developer of jGW2API thing coming along? I’m not sure since I try and play/have my warrior class fixed.

It would be a good trait if it was moved into the Arms tree, honestly Critical Damage doesn’t fit discipline at all, it fits brute force of power.

shimmerless.4560:

Rifle loses a lot of +damage options that make this trait halfway usable for something like GS, however trying to use GS skills is just as flaky as ever (which is why so many people are trying to make Rifle work in the first place). It’s a no-win situation really.

A Greatsword user would be using Slashing Power instead of DotE. Almost same bonus against bunkers. But with any enemy.

XII.9401:

Summary:
You play/played a mesmer
You don’t even use DOE
You downplay the OPeness of the mesmer class and apparently think the warrior class is fine and we are mostly bad players.
Your good at math when proving the obvious. Hows the Lead Developer of jGW2API thing coming along? I’m not sure since I try and play/have my warrior class fixed.

Ok, now, I`m not saying DotE is the KITTEN fantastic trait and all, but GOD be my witness my “unviable” spartan build started working against bunkers a lot better. For God`s sake, instead of being happy they added something , that MIGHT get useful in the future, all you do is picking up a fight and telling everyone how underpowered your warrior is. Because he was only correcting obvious mistakes you made. About Null Field – IT IS A FIELD, it is avoidable, no smart player will stay in it. About DotE, it is not a field, it comes with every attack, aka it is avoidable only on dodge/block. And YES that 21% dmg boost, actually makes the fight against bunker guardians a lot easier.
It is one thing hitting 950-1000 crits, another story is adding 200 dmg over that. In the beginning I was thinking it wont matter exactly, because protection reduced the dmg by 33%, but hey now it reduces it by 12%.. hmm… makes you think, doesnt it?

Also, instead of turning this part of the forums into a thief/necro/mesmer/ranger/ele whinefest and of course waste time, try to PLAY your warrior, without any kind of fixes. It will make you a better player, and hopefully, when/if the fixes hit live, you`ll be overpowered beast, pummelling and bashing people around .

I do enjoy my Spartan build a lot. Takes a lot of players by surprise, but it takes also a lot of practise/error to get good at it.

I also dont like Defektive`s builds, because they rely on team support a lot. But kitten , I do have great respect for the guy for at least TRYING.