Guild Wars 2

I dont want a single person coming in saying 30 25 0 0 15 because frankly your wrong. I want people who know what they are talking about and have the math to prove it.

now we have cleared that up, since the empower allies nerf a while back, is it now higher dps to run 30 10 0 0 30 taking rending strikes, or still 30 0 0 10 30 but empowered instead of empower allies? This is bugging me for a while and I want to know if anyone has mathed it out.

Soo… Brazil is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGoYjJIhlpM
Fine then. Nike is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LNep79qXLk
Fine then, um all these peeps are wrong?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Warrior-Builds-Post-10-17-Patch
O.O These guys have already run the numbers a bajillion times…should we call them out to once again show you the math?

Epic.3950:

I dont want a single person coming in saying 30 25 0 0 15 because frankly your wrong.

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/37154796.jpg

Qoltera.3042:

Soo… Brazil is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGoYjJIhlpM
Fine then. Nike is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LNep79qXLk
Fine then, um all these peeps are wrong?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Warrior-Builds-Post-10-17-Patch
O.O These guys have already run the numbers a bajillion times…should we call them out to once again show you the math?

brazil didnt math anything out, he cant even divide 25/2.
as for nike, he does his rotation incorrect, which equates to him getting wonky auto attacks in where he should not be. he directly contradicts himself aswell in this video. he states empower allies was a 5-7% dps boost and without it, that is lost. in his previous video he states 30 25 0 0 15 (which has not been changed at all) had a total of around 7% dps less than 30 0 0 10 30. therefore without it the best 30 25 0 0 15 can do is equal the same dps before taking into account the higher RNG base of the build, as well as the fact that empower or rending strikes can be taken in 30 10 0 030 or 30 0 0 10 30 in order to increase the DPS beyond the maximum of 30 25 0 0 15. yes they are wrong. If you want to say im wrong all I have done is quote these two so by that logic you disprove their credibility.

Epic.3950:

Qoltera.3042:

Soo… Brazil is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGoYjJIhlpM
Fine then. Nike is wrong? :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LNep79qXLk
Fine then, um all these peeps are wrong?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/We-Got-Warrior-Builds-Post-10-17-Patch
O.O These guys have already run the numbers a bajillion times…should we call them out to once again show you the math?

brazil didnt math anything out, he cant even divide 25/2.
as for nike, he does his rotation incorrect, which equates to him getting wonky auto attacks in where he should not be. he directly contradicts himself aswell in this video. he states empower allies was a 5-7% dps boost and without it, that is lost. in his previous video he states 30 25 0 0 15 (which has not been changed at all) had a total of around 7% dps less than 30 0 0 10 30. therefore without it the best 30 25 0 0 15 can do is equal the same dps before taking into account the higher RNG base of the build, as well as the fact that empower or rending strikes can be taken in 30 10 0 030 or 30 0 0 10 30 in order to increase the DPS beyond the maximum of 30 25 0 0 15. yes they are wrong. If you want to say im wrong all I have done is quote these two so by that logic you disprove their credibility.

Ouch. Just going to stop here. Please leave this poor fellow alone, he clearly doesn’t want to change his mind. Just wondering though, would that mean all the elitist guilds have worse mathematical abilities than you? I’m going to assume that SOMEONE out there has done the math correctly and that there will be a video or a forum post where 30/25 is worse than 30/10 or 30/0 o.o be right back while I search for them.

Im pretty curios to see your math.. since all the math i have done and all the math i have seen point to a higher effective power for the 30/25 build.. and since effective power is the best way to compare builds assuming same weapons and same class (and im also assuming this is pure axe since with all buffs accounted for everyone knows axe>axe+gs) i tend to believe those calculations..

If you’re not going to trust other people’s math in the first place, why not calculate it yourself?
Also, instead of that passive aggressive opening to your topic, you should have just asked for help in calculating which has more dps between the two builds you like, explaining that you simply don’t want to use 30/25. You would have gotten a lot less flak and this thread would have continued in a much more constructive manner.

Epic.3950:

brazil didnt math anything out, he cant even divide 25/2.

Then again he’s out there doing actual speedruns with a reputable guild. Considering that theorycrafting the numbers always has a lot of questionable assumptions, I would think that doing the actual work and seeing what works out best is at least a decent way to arrive at a conclusion.

Also, you’re the one making the claims, so how about you go ahead and show the proof? After all, from where I am standing, you’re making a claim that is basically saying that a ton of speedrunning reputable warriors did not bother to test out the other options for 30/x/x/x/30 when it became the top dungeon setup.

Even when 30/0/0/10/30 was the go to build. rT were using 30/25 for extra warriors because it has better solo and individual dps and also other advantages for speedclearing. I believe nike overlooked 30/25 back then but hes in the right now.

Just out of curiousity can someone explain or link me to a more detailed explanation as to why 30/25/0/0/15 is best dps build for axe. The perks in 30/0/0/10/30 look like it would offer more dps in a group setting(assuming high might stacks).

There are no damage modifiers in discipline. Damage modifiers > crit damage. Also best dps for pure axe is actually 30/25/0/10/5 because you dont need fast hands if you’re not going to use 100b + ww in the rotation.

spoj.9672:

There are no damage modifiers in discipline. Damage modifiers > crit damage. Also best dps for pure axe is actually 30/25/0/10/5 because you dont need fast hands if you’re not going to use 100b + ww in the rotation.

What about the extra dmg from empowered? Wouldnt that be an extra 25-30% dmg compared to the 10% from atk of opp?

Empowered is 1% per boon. So in an organised group thats going to be about 7%. Plus if you take empowered on a gs axe mace build you either lose rending strikes (group dps increase) or fast hands (big personal loss because you cant do a proper gs rotation). Only time its worth taking empowered is for a full axe build where you dont need fast hands (30/25/0/10/5).

MyCondolences.8172:

spoj.9672:

There are no damage modifiers in discipline. Damage modifiers > crit damage. Also best dps for pure axe is actually 30/25/0/10/5 because you dont need fast hands if you’re not going to use 100b + ww in the rotation.

What about the extra dmg from empowered? Wouldnt that be an extra 25-30% dmg compared to the 10% from atk of opp?

Empowered is 1% per boon. Meaning that you’ll pretty much never get the 10% you would need to compare to Attack of Opportunity.

Empower Allies is a Master tier trait.

Only time its worth taking empowered is for a full axe build where you dont need fast hands (30/25/0/10/5).

Why the 5 points in Discipline at all? Unless you’re using Eviscerate, the extra adrenaline from the trait is wasted.

Most likely because that will get you the most damage. 5 points in any of the other lines won’t increase your damage that much at all (maybe Last Chance in Arms). Assuming you always crit though, thats a 5% damage increase

As spoj said 30/25/0/10/5 is the best dps for a pure axe build. 30/25/0/0/15 is the best for gs+axe.

I’ll math it out for you since you dont trust that I’ve already done it properly.

30/25: 19,994 ep [3400*(1+.88*1.58)2.38]
30/10: 19,789 ep [3400(1+.93*1.73)2.17]
30/0: 19,842 ep [3400(1+.89*1.73)*2.23]

Once you add stacking sigils and food the 30/25 build gets even better, since the % damage mods scale better than crit damage does.

Things to note: this math assumes 25 vuln and 25 Might. The 30/10 and 30/25 builds will have better Vuln stacking than the 30/0 so the numbers in real world gameplay are going to be even better for the 30/25 and 30/10. The 30/25 will have about 3-4 more stacks of Might at any given time than the 30/10 build which means its numbers will be even better in real world gameplay. when you factor those two things in, the 30/25 build will be significantly more dps overall than even these numbers show.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’ll math it out for you since you dont trust that I’ve already done it properly.

30/25: 19,994 ep [3400*(1+.88*1.58)2.38]
30/10: 19,789 ep [3400(1+.93*1.73)2.17]
30/0: 19,842 ep [3400(1+.89*1.73)*2.23]

Wait a second here. You really need to clarify what you mean with those setups. I know that the first two are 30/25/0/0/15 and 30/0/0/10/30, but what’s the last one?

And quite honestly, when posting numbers, you really should detail the less obvious multipliers. In this case, the 2.38/2.17/2.23.

It really messes with my mojo when I see people posting numbers without detailing how they got them. From a spectator’s perspective, that’s no different from posting completely random numbers. And this is coming from someone who’s done theorycrafting for close to a decade.

Olba, these setups don’t need clarification. The are known builds.

But for you sake, the assumptions made are

25 Might
25 Vuln
Slaying sigil
Dungeon Potion
Scholar Runes
disc banner
stre banner

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Olba, these setups don’t need clarification. The are known builds.

But for you sake, the assumptions made are

25 Might
25 Vuln
Slaying sigil
Dungeon Potion
Scholar Runes
disc banner
stre banner

That doesn’t explain why the last multiplier (which should be those damage modifiers) differs between the three setups.

Known build or not, you should always specify the assumptions. Because what you take as assumptions is not obvious. For example, from my perspective, considering outside buffs like banners, potions, sigils, scholar runes, might and vulnerability at all is silly as ducks since those are static between builds.

After all, this is the official GW2 forum, not your own little guild forum where everyone knows exactly what’s going on.

This thread is comparing 3 builds. From the context of the thread the three builds I listed are obvious. I’m sorry that you don’t know the traits implicit in each build, but most everyone who cares about such things already does.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

As spoj said 30/25/0/10/5 is the best dps for a pure axe build. 30/25/0/0/15 is the best for gs+axe.

I’ll math it out for you since you dont trust that I’ve already done it properly.

30/25: 19,994 ep [3400*(1+.88*1.58)2.38]
30/10: 19,789 ep [3400(1+.93*1.73)2.17]
30/0: 19,842 ep [3400(1+.89*1.73)*2.23]

Once you add stacking sigils and food the 30/25 build gets even better, since the % damage mods scale better than crit damage does.

Things to note: this math assumes 25 vuln and 25 Might. The 30/10 and 30/25 builds will have better Vuln stacking than the 30/0 so the numbers in real world gameplay are going to be even better for the 30/25 and 30/10. The 30/25 will have about 3-4 more stacks of Might at any given time than the 30/10 build which means its numbers will be even better in real world gameplay. when you factor those two things in, the 30/25 build will be significantly more dps overall than even these numbers show.

I need some clarification from the root of this. how are you saying the ep is higher without might stacks in 30 25 when you literally lose 15% crit damage, around 3% crit chance (rather insignificant) to gain around 4% increased damage (one should not have less than 6 boons on them on average assuming we go with empowered)
the cdr on the GS is insignificant because it does not work into the 6 second axe rotation and assuming your group has more effective ways of holding might, like you said it would be detrimental to your might stacks.

Keep in mind im talking about a group that knows what they are doing, I have accepted that in pug hell 30 25 is much less reliant on others

I calculated each build with 25 Might stacks, not sure where you got the idea I did it with 0 Might.

6 boons is absurd, you don’t average 6 boons in an organized group for any extended period of time. 3 Boons is the average, and its what we use for Empowered.

I didn’t say anything about the cool down reduction or axe rotation so thats a non-sequitor. You asked for the math and I gave it to you.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I calculated each build with 25 Might stacks, not sure where you got the idea I did it with 0 Might.

6 boons is absurd, you don’t average 6 boons in an organized group for any extended period of time. 3 Boons is the average, and its what we use for Empowered.

I didn’t say anything about the cool down reduction or axe rotation so thats a non-sequitor. You asked for the math and I gave it to you.

Doesnt that contradict yourself? Your doing the rest of the calculations with the assumption of 25 might stacks, yet for empowered 22 of them magically disappear?
I’m baffled.

edit: you also dont explain of crit plays into your calculations.
edit2: by boons, does it mean boon type? as in 1% dmg for boon type, not amount of boons?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I calculated each build with 25 Might stacks, not sure where you got the idea I did it with 0 Might.

6 boons is absurd, you don’t average 6 boons in an organized group for any extended period of time. 3 Boons is the average, and its what we use for Empowered.

I didn’t say anything about the cool down reduction or axe rotation so thats a non-sequitor. You asked for the math and I gave it to you.

protection, fury, might, retal, swiftness should have a 100% uptime unless you are running a full zerker group without an anchor guard in which case 4 sounds right. other boons come and go like regen vigor ect. (both of which have high uptimes)
your view on axe CDR is the reason your attack chains were as I said; incorrect. having cdr on axe 2 is the difference between stacking 4 more vuln per axe rotation opposed to not stacking it. it works into place perfectly with 100b and ww.
edit: if you are speed running you should have 25 stacks of might from ele even after fight ends or you are doing it wrong so once again GS might stacking is decimated

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNApeTjkOJvVPOP4wBE0jroK2CVB4I9ANGw0A-jABBZPFRjt4qIasqZER16kYBBMK-e

This is not the 30/25/0/0/15 build you are looking for. I think you might like it.

MyCondolences.8172:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I calculated each build with 25 Might stacks, not sure where you got the idea I did it with 0 Might.

6 boons is absurd, you don’t average 6 boons in an organized group for any extended period of time. 3 Boons is the average, and its what we use for Empowered.

I didn’t say anything about the cool down reduction or axe rotation so thats a non-sequitor. You asked for the math and I gave it to you.

Doesnt that contradict yourself? Your doing the rest of the calculations with the assumption of 25 might stacks, yet for empowered 22 of them magically disappear?
I’m baffled.

edit: you also dont explain of crit plays into your calculations.
edit2: by boons, does it mean boon type? as in 1% dmg for boon type, not amount of boons?

Empowered functions off of seperate Boon TYPES, not by stacks of a particular boon.

I’m really not all into the theorycrafting since I just leech on other people’s hard work. But I think I can clarify some of the thing’s Nike says.

When he does the math for the build, he does it with optimal set up in a gorup setting and 30/25 pulled ahead of 30/10. But in real world, weather by accident or just not being able to fill a group with people you know, or simply using it for people like me, who just pugs dungeons. Optimal conditions rarely happens, the 30/25 set up will pull ahead due to innate higher self reliance on DPS. That is when the 3-4 extra stacks of might becomes a factor.

Epic.3950:

protection, fury, might, retal, swiftness should have a 100% uptime unless you are running a full zerker group without an anchor guard in which case 4 sounds right. other boons come and go like regen vigor ect. (both of which have high uptimes)
your view on axe CDR is the reason your attack chains were as I said; incorrect. having cdr on axe 2 is the difference between stacking 4 more vuln per axe rotation opposed to not stacking it. it works into place perfectly with 100b and ww.

This is a thread about dps and you bring up anchor guard. Anyone remotely decent still uses them?

I also heard warrior has perma vigour from warhorn so your assumption is correct, 4 boons at minimal.

edit: if you are speed running you should have 25 stacks of might from ele even after fight ends or you are doing it wrong so once again GS might stacking is decimated

Yes, we both know how theory works in practice.

I’m new to warrior and by no means an expert, but couldnt sharpened axes increase dmg output? With 100% crit your talking about gaining adrenaline 3x faster then without meaning that you remain at max adrenaline more often and get more use of burst skills.

btw i dont even know if Eviscerate is even commonly used.

Also were the additional bleeds calculated in the dmg of the builds that involve arms?

You do not use Eviscerate at all unless it’s going to be the last hit on a boss/if you desperately need the extra dodge.

Also, highest DPS is probably Desperate Power 30/0, but that build is absurdly impractical to run (esp since nerf to HP threshold to 25%). Then again, OP is talking about kittening anchor guardians so there’s a pretty high chance that he’s just trolling/clueless.

Highest dps would be desperate power 30/25/0/10/5. Just like the pure axe build except you take deperate power instead of empowered. You would lose fast hands again though. :P

When it comes to assumptions you have to draw the line somewhere. You can assume 25 Might stacks, or 0 Might stacks or some arbitrary number in between. No matter which number you pick, there will be some builds that are biased and look better than they will in practice.

For what its worth the assumptions I use (25 Might, 25 Vuln) are unfair to the 30/25 build. Which means the 2-3% superiority it has compared to the other builds is actually far greater in practice. In game results should probably be 5-8% better.

I run 30/0/25/0/15 and in WvW I’ve hit the tower champ for 34k on finally 100 blades with knights gear and crit food. I believe I had probably 20 stacks of might from all the stacking.

Epic.3950:

This is bugging me for a while and I want to know if anyone has mathed it out.

No, no one has “mathed” it out. No one has come up with a correct mathematical model to calculate damage per second. The best anyone has done are just (poor) estimates that calculate the expected value of damage called “Effective Power”. All estimates based on data are also given with error estimates (for those unaware). Those that are based not on data, but on theorems, need no estimates but are required to provide parameter estimates. The so called “Effective Power” math model has neither. In fact, if I recall correctly, EF attempts to optimize your damage without even using calculus. If you have taken calculus you will know what I am talking about. Its one of the central themes of the course.

The EF model has room to be greatly improved (if not scrapped altogether). For example, did you know that the trait “Stick and Move”, if traited, is treated as if it has 100% uptime? Yet it doesn’t have 100% uptime. (If you wanted to treat it as a multiplier, you would need to find some kind of invariant measure, of which there are several ways to do so.) Another example of a weakness of the EF model that comes to mind is condition damage; its simply ignored. Its for this reason that many people think that the longbow (LB) is more effective than rifle, when in reality sometimes it is and sometimes it isnt. Even if your build is not centered (or even care about) condition damage, it doesn’t change the fact that you still do some condition damage and needs to be accounted for when calculating expected damage done. (Hint; its not as negligible as some people think. Like the invariant measure mentioned above, there are multiple ways to calculate the damage. Its a Poisson process.)

There are several ways to know if some one has “mathed” it out correctly Epic. Any model should be verifiable using different methods, meaning that you will be able to reach the same results using completely different methods. I should be able to take partial derivatives and arrive at the same conclusion as a spreadsheet if both the derivatives and spreadsheet are correct. And if either of those two are correct, I should be able to simulate those results in a program like MatLab or Maple. Just this reason alone negates the usefulness of the EF model and why it is ineffective. No error margins and no parameters mean there is little chance of correctly arriving at the same conclusions using different methods. (Note; if EF were accurate, you would know the equilibrium of power and precision since, if defining only those two, the formula for describing them is a second degree polynomial. Meaning, unless the vertex is not in our domain, there is a point at which the two stats are equally powerful. So, for most zerker armor set ups there exists some precision armor set up has the same effective stats. Just food for thought.)

For those interested in what the correct math is in understanding min/maxing your stats or DPS or any metric, here is a blog that I love.

http://www.sacredduty.net/

Its a WoW blog, but math is universal and many of the principles apply to this game.

Epic.3950:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I calculated each build with 25 Might stacks, not sure where you got the idea I did it with 0 Might.

6 boons is absurd, you don’t average 6 boons in an organized group for any extended period of time. 3 Boons is the average, and its what we use for Empowered.

I didn’t say anything about the cool down reduction or axe rotation so thats a non-sequitor. You asked for the math and I gave it to you.

protection, fury, might, retal, swiftness should have a 100% uptime unless you are running a full zerker group without an anchor guard in which case 4 sounds right.

Anchorguard with Retatlation and Protection means Hammer.
Hammer means a stupid 90% of time active Lightfield.
Lightfield will get triggert.
Not fire.
Lack of Might.
30/25 will be better cause of mightstacking/solo DPS.
The guard will do less dmg (no GS/S+F rotation).
Group will loose dmg.
This complete discussion will be for the cat (nonsense/useless).

If we want to argument this style. Pick a ranger for regeneration and a extra big waterfield. Possibel a LH ele could trigger might by an ember´s fire field…horribel scenario.

And just a real question, where should vigor come from? Guard´s with x/x/x/5/25 can calculate it, but warriors?
And for permareg the ranger has to trait 33% longer reg duration (losing about 2-3% personal dps) or boon duration runes/amor. Or pick guard (the shout, big dps loss) and voice of nature (another 10% dps loss or 7% critchance for all…) looks like a bad trade.

oilstorm.1748:

Epic.3950:

This is bugging me for a while and I want to know if anyone has mathed it out.

No, no one has “mathed” it out. No one has come up with a correct mathematical model to calculate damage per second. The best anyone has done are just (poor) estimates that calculate the expected value of damage called “Effective Power”.

Actually, we have “mathed it out.” GK and Zehlyn have created actual DPS calculators with actually DPS rotations taken into consideration, and Effective Power is not part of them. You have an arrogant tone in your post which perhaps you should moderate in light of the fact that you aren’t as current with the state of theorycraft in the game as you think you are.

FWIW, the reason people use Effective Power is because its much much faster and simpler to calculate. It’s useful only for comparing builds with the same weapons within the same profession so it is clearly quite limited; however, once you are aware of its limitations its still pretty useful for threads such as this where misinformation by know-nothings is plentiful.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

oilstorm.1748:

Epic.3950:

This is bugging me for a while and I want to know if anyone has mathed it out.

No, no one has “mathed” it out. No one has come up with a correct mathematical model to calculate damage per second. The best anyone has done are just (poor) estimates that calculate the expected value of damage called “Effective Power”.

Actually, we have “mathed it out.” GK and Zehlyn have created actual DPS calculators with actually DPS rotations taken into consideration, and Effective Power is not part of them. You have an arrogant tone in your post which perhaps you should moderate in light of the fact that you aren’t as current with the state of theorycraft in the game as you think you are.

Actually, no, you haven’t “mathed out” anything, though you can pretend all you want. In fact, you haven’t even attempted to counter any of points regarding the mathematical flaws I pointed out. And no, I wont be moderating my tone, especially considering I wasn’t even talking to you, though I can certainly fill YOU in. The state of the “theorycrafting” in this community is where it has been for a long time. Inaccurate. People "guestimating"everywhere saying, “This build is the best by roughly X%” and “Your build is inferior by Y%” using napkin math, mental math or rudimentary spreadsheets. People constantly making claims that cannot be verified. You couldn’t even make a proper rebuttal to mathematical claims. You are more than welcome to try if you’d like, but something tells me that your not all that mathematically mature.

By saying “mathed it out” I am defining it as actually using precise, correct math that accurately models damage per second. As I said in my post, a model needs to be verifiable and thus far, none have been. Come back with such a model, then you can say “we have mathed it out”. (And why are you taking credit for the work of GK/Zehlyn anyways? Were you apart of that “we” that you mentioned?)

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

FWIW, the reason people use Effective Power is because its much much faster and simpler to calculate. It’s useful only for comparing builds with the same weapons within the same profession so it is clearly quite limited; however, once you are aware of its limitations its still pretty useful for threads such as this where misinformation by know-nothings is plentiful.

So because Effective Power is quick and simple, its justified in being used? Yes, you are correct, if we ignore all the many limitations, then yeah, your statement is trivially true. Actually, let me put that statement in layman’s terms for you; If we pretend that EF model is actually useful, then it is amazing work. You put numbers in and it spits numbers out. Your justification and use of EF is more than enough information to gauge the state of the theorycrafting of this game.

PS. I dont think you are as current of math models that are useful as you think you are.

You can work out very accurate theoretical dps though. Its rather complicated and for the sake of comparison you generally make set assumptions like max might and vuln, uninterrupted dps rotations and mob has 2600 armour. You will never reproduce the exact numbers you calculate ingame because their are too many variables and they are impossible to fully control. But you can get some pretty close numbers and you can use them to calculate the difference in dps in the optimal conditions.

Ive done a full dps calculation for a necro build including rotations, cast times, after casts and all sorts and mathematically it was completely correct. It was slightly better than what you get ingame because i didnt factor in buff fluctuation and dodging or interrupting the rotation. It can be done, just because you havent done the research doesnt mean it cant…

oilstorm.1748:

By saying “mathed it out” I am defining it as actually using precise, correct math that accurately models damage per second. As I said in my post, a model needs to be verifiable and thus far, none have been. Come back with such a model, then you can say “we have mathed it out”. (And why are you taking credit for the work of GK/Zehlyn anyways? Were you apart of that “we” that you mentioned?)

Zehlyn and GK can link you to their spreadsheets if you want. And I say “we” as in the dungeon community because much of the work and input and measurements were done by the community as a whole.

I’m sure you have a lot of experience theorycrafting other games, but it’s obvious to me that you aren’t up to speed with the current theorycraft for this game. I don’t say that as an insult, I’m saying that you should be a bit less condescending in your posts since you aren’t aware of everything as it stands. As they say, ’you’re dippin in the kool aid but you don’t know the flavor.’

Lastly, for the purposes of comparing warrior builds with the same weaponsets (gs+axe/mace) effective power is perfectly reasonable and provides an accurate comparison of in game dps.

I hit things hard with my axe and see pretty red numbers. They die I live. There’s some realcrafting for you