Guild Wars 2

From 1,480 to 1,000 healing per shout!?
So what happen to the numbers between 1480 to 1,000??
1,350??
1,300??
1,250??
1,200??

They tripe killed my offensive shout build, from the boon duration to the stats to the main core, shouts. I was fine since everyone lost the duration bonuses and stats but the 1,000 healing is nerve-racking.

Healing Signet: In 30 seconds heals 10,860
To the Limit: 6,540 30 seconds CD
To the Limit with Vigorous Shouts: 7,540 with 24 Seconds CD

Remove the 5 adrenaline and restore the healing on Vigorous shouts?
What do you guys think, fair or not in over all?

? it says 1560 on my shoutbow

lighter.2708:

? it says 1560 on my shoutbow

Was 2k on shouts with cele as far i know.

Might be the loss of healing power in the traitlines? What was the ratio before? It’s 1:1 now.

I can approximate my old WvW build by dropping some zerker and soldier stuff and adding some clerics.

I think your right.

Anyway, even with my old gear and 1k healing shouts, I’m surviving a lot better since I can take Endure Pain, Cleansing Ire AND Merciless Hammer at the same time.

probably the loss of healing power on tactics. if I remember correctly it was a 1:1 ratio

guys it was never 1:1, just play with the build editor and see for yourself that shouts got nerf

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQBb05hlCilHCINASTA

“Warrior!”
The new nerf, minority, coward class who all they can do is run with their greatsword because even if they use it we bugged Rush to run away!
Warrior! The new Range Warrior Support Class!
more nerfs on support coming soon!

original base 1500
new base 1000

Should have stayed at 1500, it was already a nerf due to the lack of +healing.

1K healing for shouts makes them useless.

Gonna give it a shot for a couple of hours, but most likely shout builds of any kind are essentially dead.

Shoutbow still works. It’s not 1k heal with celestial it’s 1560 heal. And with inspiring presence heal it’s closer to 1700 heal.

Kagamiku.9731:

Shoutbow still works. It’s not 1k heal with celestial it’s 1560 heal. And with inspiring presence heal it’s closer to 1700 heal.

you mean “it is” 1k and with celestial its 1560, plus you need 25 stacks of might for inspiring presence to heal 1705.

good luck getting 25 stacks of might in order to heal 1705 when before the patch you were healing 1874 with just celestial alone and 2054 if you had at least 4 points in defense.

anyways if those numbers seen small then why did anet had to take off 480 healing per shout which is a 33% nerf

What I said is exactly the same thing you said…Just different wording.

Kagamiku.9731:

What I said is exactly the same thing you said…Just different wording.

sorry i wasnt trying to make fun or anything, just pointing out the nerf

You don’t need 25 stacks to hit 1705. If you’re healing for 1560 with celestial, then you need roughly 14 stacks. Very doable. Most shotubow builds only run 2 shouts since a stance or endure pain is better than a third shout in most situations. You’re not losing much healing at all. 400-800healing every 24 seconds…not a big deal.

you know they kittened up when you go back to guardian because warrior is as thin as paper now.

Kagamiku.9731:

You don’t need 25 stacks to hit 1705. If you’re healing for 1560 with celestial, then you need roughly 14 stacks. Very doable. Most shotubow builds only run 2 shouts since a stance or endure pain is better than a third shout in most situations. You’re not losing much healing at all. 400-800healing every 24 seconds…not a big deal.

Err yes it is, its 40 to 80% more.

How is from 1700 to 2000 … 40 to 80% more. Basic math people.

It’s a 15% difference.

Shouts scale better with healing power now so that does help some.

Are you guys forgetting that we can now bring a regen banner along with just 1 trait? I’m glad that they made cuts elsewhere cause otherwise Shoutbow would still be insane.

Banners are unusable on WvW.

Just replace some trinkets with cleric ones. Hell, I just replaced 2 zerker rings with 2 celestial rings, and I don’t notice the reduced healing at all. You get Empowered Allies now anyway, so you’ll still be doing higher damage.

The fact that I can use Defy Pain, Cleansing Ire, Merciless Hammer means I’m much more survivable in zergs now.

Shifu.4321:

Just replace some trinkets with cleric ones. Hell, I just replaced 2 zerker rings with 2 celestial rings, and I don’t notice the reduced healing at all. You get Empowered Allies now anyway, so you’ll still be doing higher damage.

The fact that I can use Defy Pain, Cleansing Ire, Merciless Hammer means I’m much more survivable in zergs now.

I think people are talking about PvP, You can’t replace rings in PvP.

They don’t scale better they scale exactly the same. 1 to 1.

Depending on how much healing power you ran and where you got it from (gear vs traits) you’ve lost anywhere from 10% to 45% shout healing.

teegees.9638:

They don’t scale better they scale exactly the same. 1 to 1.

Depending on how much healing power you ran and where you got it from (gear vs traits) you’ve lost anywhere from 10% to 45% shout healing.

Um, no. It was .9 before the patch, it’s 1.1 after the patch.
Traiting all the way into vigorous shouts without celestial gear is really only something someone would do in wvw zergs..And wvw zerging doesn’t really matter.

Shelved my warrior, playing cheese ranger cuz 11211121112 is fun and engaging gameplay.

How can you complain so much about shouts when you can:

-get all the nessecary traits by spending 1 trait slot, and get a bonus adrenaline boost for free,
-have a new shout that completely refills adrenaline and heals you for more then 300 HP/second, and
-get Quick Breathing/Leg Specialist and Shrug it Off together (more shout, more heal), or slot Burning Arrows for way more damage.

Honestly, Shouts seem better then ever to me.

Cygnus.6903:

How can you complain so much about shouts when you can:

-get all the nessecary traits by spending 1 trait slot, and get a bonus adrenaline boost for free,
-have a new shout that completely refills adrenaline and heals you for more then 300 HP/second, and
-get Quick Breathing/Leg Specialist and Shrug it Off together (more shout, more heal), or slot Burning Arrows for way more damage.

Honestly, Shouts seem better then ever to me.

It’s a justified social reaction. Lack of forewarning and transparency breeds doubt and negativity because nobody likes it. ArenaNet reaps what it sows.

I don’t see the problem still. People need to realize that everything just got buffed to an obscene level, and that nerfs are inevitable. Shouts might get nerfed a little less if the power creep is not as bad.

Apolo.5942:

you know they kittened up when you go back to guardian because warrior is as thin as paper now.

My Rabid Engi got spiked by a scepter Ele in less than 2 secs from 15k -> 2k wearing rabid amulet. Everyone’s on the same boat now mind you.

Kagamiku.9731:

teegees.9638:

They don’t scale better they scale exactly the same. 1 to 1.

Depending on how much healing power you ran and where you got it from (gear vs traits) you’ve lost anywhere from 10% to 45% shout healing.

Um, no. It was .9 before the patch, it’s 1.1 after the patch.
Traiting all the way into vigorous shouts without celestial gear is really only something someone would do in wvw zergs..And wvw zerging doesn’t really matter.

It’s 1 to 1, go check. .9 or 1 pre patch doesn’t meaningfully change the magnitude of the nerf.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove with the gear comment. You’re choice of celesetial build w/ full tactics is a bad choice to justify the nerf. The only thing such a build would do well is group healing via shouts. And such a setup would lose 25-35% effectiveness on that healing.

Cygnus.6903:

How can you complain so much about shouts when you can:

-get all the nessecary traits by spending 1 trait slot, and get a bonus adrenaline boost for free,
-have a new shout that completely refills adrenaline and heals you for more then 300 HP/second, and
-get Quick Breathing/Leg Specialist and Shrug it Off together (more shout, more heal), or slot Burning Arrows for way more damage.

Honestly, Shouts seem better then ever to me.

Then I can only assume you never actually used shouts before the patch.

There is no talent cost savings here. If you wanted healing shouts before the patch you had to commit to the entire tactics line. Same as you do now.

The new shout your rave about is a nerfed version of an old skill. Before the patch it healed 9k baseline and fully restored adrenaline. It now heals 6.5k and fully restores adrenaline. Even traited for shouts its worse than before. (And healing signet was, most definatly still is, a better heal.)

You could combine either of those with shrug it off before the patch. (And still get healing shouts too.)

Burning arrows isn’t way more damage. It’s a better skill and a viable alternative to shrug it off. A moderate side grade in the tactics line is hardly justification for a large nerf to shout healing.

And lets not forget. Anyone going for shout healing pre-patch benefitted from 30% boon duration. Which is gone and was not offset by stat changes.

The did not nerfed shouts, they removed the 300 healing attributed from the trait line as the others trait attributes (str, crit, def).

I would rather have them remove the useless Inspiring Presence and restore the healing shouts. Anet thinks they’re so slick by nerfing shouts and giving use inspiring presence so people wont feel much of the nerf but at the same time they remove fast healer which is another nerf.

If you dont use shouts, thats fine. direct damage got a buff and im happy for everyone[even me] but anet is nerfing our support line for no reason. it was never abused or OP. They were just healing shouts supporting the group. I was one of the few people who used shouts as offensive while taking advantage of the 30% boon duration for might stacking and also contributing in a party.

The only builds i see healing shouts being use on would be in pvp as celestial shoutbow or tanky support builds. while shoutbow and tanky support builds in wvw arent recommended since there are better builds and making them completely useless in pve.

anyways, its all nerfs guys and the fact that the anet keeps nerfing warrior is the big problem. Theyre not helping us but slowly sinking us. Right now conditions and other professions gain damage buffs, but come on its just a matter of time when anet is going to nerf direct damage on warrior and i already see it coming.

Im just stun of how far 66006 can go. I can easy keep stacking precision with signet mastery to almost 100% just by activating signet of rage and healing signet multiple times before a fight. whirlwind actually hits all hits because of the movement update and with stacking might +10% damage is a little too good thb. last thing is berserker’s power, its just op! im not asking for a nerf but i wouldnt be surprise if they do nerf them.

teegees.9638:

It’s 1 to 1, go check. .9 or 1 pre patch doesn’t meaningfully change the magnitude of the nerf.

From .9 to 1.1 would make the shouts heal for 112 more with celestial. So that does amount to something.

Not sure what you’re trying to prove with the gear comment. You’re choice of celesetial build w/ full tactics is a bad choice to justify the nerf. The only thing such a build would do well is group healing via shouts. And such a setup would lose 25-35% effectiveness on that healing.

Uh, celestial shouts was the meta in pvp. It had good group healing, good tankiness, and relatively decent damage. And it’s the only reason they would have toned down the healing a bit on the shouts.

That’s what were talking about, right? It doesn’t really have a place in pve.

@darkaheart
What offhand set are you running with your 66006 setup?

I was using dual swords for the mobility, block, and burst. I thought I’d get more out of Flurry to set up the gs, but immobilize seems almost useless with all the condi clears, resistance, and effects that clear it or kill the duration.

just because it was the meta in pvp, it doesnt mean it was superior to all the other profession builds or unbeatable. it was just the best effective support build in pvp for warrior. especially since direct damage in pvp for warrior is kitten compare to conditions

Choppy.4183:

@darkaheart
What offhand set are you running with your 66006 setup?

I was using dual swords for the mobility, block, and burst. I thought I’d get more out of Flurry to set up the gs, but immobilize seems almost useless with all the condi clears, resistance, and effects that clear it or kill the duration.

i have only tried gs & hammer but im pretty sure gs & axe and shield should be just as strong. Even though Arms is for conditions, the main focus are for Signet Mastery, Unsuspected Foe and Furious.

Went from 1800 heal to 1k heal. Thats a 40% nerf overnight.. They changed one heal to a shout so an additional 1k heal. Only taking that and your heals from shouts will get close to level it was before. To me this is anet saying pls guys stop using signet heal and use the new shout heal which none ever used before.

We get +10 heal power for each might stack. Then the heal per shout raises a few.
In my shoutbow says 1810 with 25 might stacks and cele amulet.
My frustration is with war horn that no longer convert conditions in to boons.

All I know is I miss my old build LOL

teegees.9638

Cygnus.6903:

How can you complain so much about shouts when you can:

-get all the nessecary traits by spending 1 trait slot, and get a bonus adrenaline boost for free,
-have a new shout that completely refills adrenaline and heals you for more then 300 HP/second, and
-get Quick Breathing/Leg Specialist and Shrug it Off together (more shout, more heal), or slot Burning Arrows for way more damage.

Honestly, Shouts seem better then ever to me.

Then I can only assume you never actually used shouts before the patch.

There is no talent cost savings here. If you wanted healing shouts before the patch you had to commit to the entire tactics line. Same as you do now.

The new shout your rave about is a nerfed version of an old skill. Before the patch it healed 9k baseline and fully restored adrenaline. It now heals 6.5k and fully restores adrenaline. Even traited for shouts its worse than before. (And healing signet was, most definatly still is, a better heal.)

You could combine either of those with shrug it off before the patch. (And still get healing shouts too.)

Burning arrows isn’t way more damage. It’s a better skill and a viable alternative to shrug it off. A moderate side grade in the tactics line is hardly justification for a large nerf to shout healing.

And lets not forget. Anyone going for shout healing pre-patch benefitted from 30% boon duration. Which is gone and was not offset by stat changes.

I agree on the boon duration, however, that was an across the board nerf to all classes.

The rest of what you’re saying makes no sense to me at all.

About your assumption, we know what she mothered.

By definition there is a talent cost savings here. You still have to trait tactics, duh, but you get to pick at least one other trait in the Adept slot. And for most builds there is a solid option there (warhorn for shoutbow and leg specialist for hammer, gs, axe, sword, w/e). Before the patch, you were somewhat forced to take the -20% cooldown, or your investment in tactics for shouts was worth a lot less (about 20%, lol).

It was impossible to get Quick Breathing and Shrug it Off together, same goes with Leg Specialist and Burning Arrows (because you had to pick the cooldown reduction on shouts). This is now all possible without losing shout effectiveness.

About the former Healing Surge, you have to be kidding. Don’t forget, shouts heal your allies as well, so another shout means another groupwide heal. You forgot to mention the endurance regeneration too. A reduction of 9k to 7,5k personal healing to get endurance regen and groupwide heal in return, along with every other shout synergy you can get, seems well worth it. Also, Healing Surge did not have the option the reduce the 30 second cooldown, so that makes the current version heal you for more anyway.

Healing Signet will be better on most non-shout builds, but that seems only logical.

And yes, burning arrows is way more damage. Double stack of burning on auto attack, more might stacking, more pin down, etc. Cooldown reduction is very strong on any weapon.

I just gave my opinion, I wouldn’t ‘rave’ as you call it (out of frustration?) about something I really cba with too much.

Cygnus.6903:

I just gave my opinion, I wouldn’t ‘rave’ as you call it (out of frustration?) about something I really cba with too much.

Thank you

Anyways, the bundling of Lung capacity and Inspiring Shouts shouldn’t be a reason to nerf Vigorous Shouts, especially since traits dont grand stats anymore. After all over, Forceful Greatsword, Axe Mastery, Signet Mastery, Shield Master, Last Stand, Warrior’s Sprint and Vengeful Return were all put together with their relative traits without nerfs and the same goes for some of the other professions.

As for the relocation of the other traits, shoutbow is not the only build that uses tactics or healing shouts nor should it revolve around it. Sure a few days ago we weren’t able to use X trait with X, so they should have just left them alone. instead they nerf vigorous shouts, removed desperate powers, removed fast healer, removed inspiring banners[+50% radius, -20% CD], gave us the useless powerful synergy and inspiring presence and balance burning arrows with the auto burning and 10% damage. you see this does more harm than good, of course some people wouldnt know this because they dont use tactics. cough!

as for the healing of shouts with and without lung capacity, you can see the nerf from a small to a large scale and so on if would happen to add celestial or healing power.

before patch lung capacity:
without 1480/25=59.2 healing/s,
with 1480/20=74 healing/s
after patch bundle:
1000/20=50 healing/s

It isnt just the hps, its that 1k burst heals are usless on 20+s cds

You guys shoud try “To the Limit” if you’re running a shout build. It’s a very nice heal now with the S/S LB shout build I’m running.

Lucentfir.7430:

You guys shoud try “To the Limit” if you’re running a shout build. It’s a very nice heal now with the S/S LB shout build I’m running.

hhmm whats your build?
shouts are pretty much useless now expect if used with celestial, cleric or settler

To the Limit is just, ehh! unless you want that adrenaline and support, other than that healing signet will heal more over time.

the downside of healing signet is if someone keeps putting poison on you then that healing is being reduce but compared to the limit you can always wait for that open window before activating it

darkaheart.4265:

Lucentfir.7430:

You guys shoud try “To the Limit” if you’re running a shout build. It’s a very nice heal now with the S/S LB shout build I’m running.

hhmm whats your build?
shouts are pretty much useless now expect if used with celestial, cleric or settler

To the Limit is just, ehh! unless you want that adrenaline and support, other than that healing signet will heal more over time.

the downside of healing signet is if someone keeps putting poison on you then that healing is being reduce but compared to the limit you can always wait for that open window before activating it

Cele S/S LB with Fire Runes Arms/Tactics/Defense. Also HS vs TTL things to consider now. Poison and burning stack now, which means condis will outpace be able to outpace your healing much more than it did before. Not to mention all the bursty builds present right now. TTL feels better to me now over HS with how everything is currently.

I think shout now is just useless. They nefered heal too much. I think it got nerfed from 1700 (with zerker amulet) to 1000. I think It is the most nerf as compared to any other nerfed skill in gw2 history. Stance war is only way to go for now

So my recommendation is that if you were only shout user, just quit the game or change class to guardian (their meditation heal didnt get nerfed)

I run sword/shield and signets all properly traited and it’s strong. I score well in pvp and it also works well in wvw. In pve I more than hold my own.

This build crits and stacks bleeds with sword a lot (Arms line); shield reflects and quickly stacks might(Defense line); the signets do what they do (Healing sig has 16 sec CD also Defense line) and add precision. My third line is Discipline as it should be for all warriors now.

I usually keep For Great Justice on my bar for more might stacking and group/ally support. If a group need “more” support, I’ll swap signet of stamina for a banner. I keep Dolyak signet locked on my bar no matter what.

I’ve gotten 12 stacks of might in >3 sec from one shield block. So while I hide behind my shield and heal (healing sig) a ranger or something is taking damage from all my bleeds and making me that much stronger—can shoutbow do that?

Not sure about the numbers as i never really ran shoutheal prepatch, running on clerics stats you grt 2200 heal. It seems like its scales witg healing power now and the base is reduced,which is a healthy call for the game me thinks

Novuake.2691:

Not sure about the numbers as i never really ran shoutheal prepatch, running on clerics stats you grt 2200 heal. It seems like its scales witg healing power now and the base is reduced,which is a healthy call for the game me thinks

Anet buffed power aspect too much. Even though Shout wasn’t get nerfed right now, it wouldn’t be enough to be tanky like before against currently increased power level becuz of Strength line’s Berserker trait. If Power got increased, Shout heal also need to be increased. Otherwise, it is not really a buff but nerf.

Thus It is just better not to use Shout currently