Guild Wars 2

Four 4v5s out of ten matches so far in the past two days. Has there been any word on a possible fix for this with the upcoming changes? Why do these matches count for / against the participant’s ranking in the first place? If more than 75% of the match duration is four players against five, why doesn’t it discard the match from counting entirely?

Its always been a mystery to me that there isn’t some sort of “Imbalanced teams” buff or debuff applied the instant the teams go out of whack numerically.

Not big enough to make quitting an active strategy, but enough to offset the generally crappy experience that usually ensues…

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

???You won a 4 vs 5 from the start? Was this hot join and not a queue or another failure in matchmaking putting a bunch of level 1-38s in a game of 40+s?

how about a volunteer like in the normal ones ?

so the one who volunteer get the points regardless of outcome?

the one who volunteer be put in a cage but can go out if one person quit

It didnt used to bother me, until I learnt about the leaderboards and the win/loss factor affecting your eligibility for finding a team.

Sooo, I guess I would be happier if the loss didnt count on my stats. Tho I guess that would be abused by leavers, unplugging when they were losing. I also suppose that is countered by the lack of end of match rewards. If they get improved soon. /ramble

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

Good news is good news Justin. Take the time to plan it all out, but when it’s time to implement I hope the entire 4v5 debacle is FULLY addressed in one go.

I hope it’s something like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Solvinguneven-matches-Sit-out-and-Substitutes/first#post3057026

As I think the fairest solution to uneven matches won’t be something like score handicaps, but simply not having uneven matches in the first place.

Stoked about this. Thanks for the heads up Justin. It will make solo queue so much better.

This is what Allie posted 8 days ago

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ha, logged in this morning to find out it was actually rank 15 that I got last night.

Believe it was…. 4-2 solo arenas and 3-2 team. The games all kind of blurred together =\

Except for that one 4v5 solo that turned into a 3v5 halfway through. I remember that one quite well! ):< (btw I have brought this up with the team recently – will post about it next week)

Yeah so no post about it ofcourse, as expected

James Megawatt.9021:

Yeah so no post about it ofcourse, as expected

Yes, there was a post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Re-Leavers

Please do not let the game start if 4 vs 5. Give the team with 5 player 5silver. Write sorry the team are incomplete and that’s is.

Can’t be that hard

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

Yes, there was a post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Re-Leavers

Thanks I missed it! Judged Allie too quick

James Megawatt.9021:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

Yes, there was a post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Re-Leavers

Thanks I missed it! Judged Allie too quick

You mean didn’t judge her quick enough. She handled that discussion by closing it, how unprofessional is that? Players with genuine suggestion/discussion material didn’t even get a chance to post in that thread, is that how she handles topics? The same thing had happened in the Skyhammer thread, Allie gave a terrible response and then the entire thread got deleted.

It’s a joke at this point that they are still “investigating” when the biggest sources of 4v5 matches are:
> A ready check button that doesn’t work
> A ready check button that doesn’t work
> A ready check button that doesn’t work
> Skyhammer

Sometimes Solo Queue takes 10+ minutes to pop it’s not uncommon for people to go AFK to do something. They don’t hit “Enter Match” button, so the game KNOWS they are AFK and yet it puts them into the match. That is the dumbest thing ever.

Just got a 3v5 even. I don’t get it. Why do 2 people not even show up?

Hey, didn’t you read? The Devs once won a 4 vs. 5 so it isn’t a problem!

I had a 3 vs 5 then a 4 vs 5 both on Skyhammer which I HATE.

Get your act together. This crap is not OK.

I really think it should go something like this:

1.) Queue for Solo
2.) Match join box appears: You have 30 seconds to enter. If you don’t enter, it grabs another player.
3.) Enter match.
4.) You have 30 seconds to “Ready Up” by pressing, “I am ready” button. If you don’t press ready button you are kicked. You are allowed 2 of these per day then you start incurring dishonorable status. If you leave a match in progress more than 2 times per day you incur dishonorable status.
5.) If “I am ready” button is pressed; Enjoy your match and good luck!

The leavers need to start incurring more severe infractions. 2 leaves per day should be what it is. I can see someone having internet issues and getting disconnected once. At that point you reset your router and hopefully the issue is fixed and you play and enjoy your time. No harm no foul. If you disconnect twice because of router issues, you shouldn’t be playing PvP that day. You are a detriment to your team at that point.

Let’s be honest though. Most leavers aren’t because of router issues. I was giving the benefit of the doubt. Leavers are because of rage quitting and that type of behavior shouldn’t be tolerated at all. Period. End of story. It needs to start coming with heavy penalties. Poor sportsmanship in solo queue has been rampant as of late and it needs to stop

The game already has the infrastructure. Just make the “I am ready” button pressing mandatory. If you don’t press it, you get removed and given Dishonored for afking in queue, and all remaining players return into queue. It’s so simple it’s scary.

League of Legends ranked mode has a similar system during the picks/bans phase, but players additionally lose Elo rating, too. ArenaNet, it’s OK to be strict on your players. Competitive players know what they’re getting into when they click to join arena queue. We are prepared for the consequences, if it means balanced and reliable matchmaking.

I believe if you all press the “I am Ready” button the match starts regardless of countdown. I only ever seen it once or twice so could have been a glitch..but it does work, just not as you guys are suggesting.

I think you have to acknowledge there are 3 types of 4 v 5.

1) Player doesnt turn up or turns up late.
2) Player sulks in base.
3) Player disconnects

What are the real causes of these?

1) I dont know, I do know if your afk, you will load into match. If you get disconnected when you load back in, youll go straight to match. So I dont believe its these? Probably someone queued and then logged off.
2) Bad sportsmanship
3) Bad sportsmanship.

What can Anet do about it?

1) Possibly add another queuer if no queuer present, compensate the teams? The latter can lead to abuse.
2) +3) Report option and infractions leading to behavioural changes. This requires possibly an in-game CS, which I don’t believe exists beyond staff and community on their own time.

TL:DR I dont think a majority of players understand this issue.

The next few feature blog posts are titled “Facilitating Friendly Play.”

I really, really hope one of these will address this issue.

Thanks Justin. I am glad to hear that there is a change on the horizon, even if it will take a bit longer then the others.

just put in /resign already.

Justin ODell.9517:

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

The next few feature blog posts are titled “Facilitating Friendly Play.”

I really, really hope one of these will address this issue.

They will not. There just wasn’t enough time to get the back-end changes done.

Then when will that happened?

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

Are you ready to talk about it yet? Because there are a lot of us out here who sure are ready to hear about it. There are many things that are so very frustrating about pvping in this game but this may be the number 1 for me.

For a RATED game to start with a 4v5 is an embarrassment. I say it over and over again but I get no response so I will continue to repeat myself until I do; The infrastructure is in place. The “I am ready” button is already there to press and as of right now it serves no purpose whatsoever… (well.. Maybe one purpose… we know who the nubs are before the match starts because they are the only ones using it.)

Lol this is 6months old and still nothing happened…. kinda makes me sad

This games PvP has been a toilet since it was released. The updates are far and few between. Not sure who the fool is that decides what gets priority over other updates/ Upgrades but this person should have his job evaluated. Justin, You said they where working on something over 6 months ago. I personally haven’t had a 4v5 in several months but I know and hear people talking about it every day. I also know many players who have been absent from game for months because of this issue and a few others that are neglected or overseen by the dev’s responsible for PvP.

Justin ODell.9517:

Unfortunately, it won’t be in* this feature build *because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

What?

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

Working? details? download and install every single moba in the world and check how queue work there:

1) you queue up
2) you wait
3) when queue is rdy game ask you to confirm with a countdown
4) if someone do not confirm during countdown it will removed from queue and another player will get it
5) repeat point 4 till you have 10 player rdy and go

About people leaving\going afk after countdown, do like smite: people who got too much ragequit\afk\dc get banished from ranked queue (yeah im meany but people with 150 childs and\or bad connection can do hotjoin rather than ruin fun for other people who want to ranked queue).

You have not to discover wheels. You have to copy it from every other game.

Ps. everyone has won a 4vs5 at least once. This is not a argument. 4vs5 are crappy designed queue system regardless winning or losing

PPs. and stop to say “we cant change queue system cause to few people do pvp and you have to wait too much” blablabla… because people atm isnt doing pvp because you are NOT doing these things.

aelfwe.4239:

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

Working? details? download and install every single moba in the world and check how queue work there:

1) you queue up
2) you wait
3) when queue is rdy game ask you to confirm with a countdown
4) if someone do not confirm during countdown it will removed from queue and another player will get it
5) repeat point 4 till you have 10 player rdy and go

About people leaving\going afk after countdown, do like smite: people who got too much ragequit\afk\dc get banished from ranked queue (yeah im meany but people with 150 childs and\or bad connection can do hotjoin rather than ruin fun for other people who want to ranked queue).

You have not to discover wheels. You have to copy it from every other game.

Ps. everyone has won a 4vs5 at least once. This is not a argument. 4vs5 are crappy designed queue system regardless winning or losing

PPs. and stop to say “we cant change queue system cause to few people do pvp and you have to wait too much” blablabla… because people atm isnt doing pvp because you are NOT doing these things.

If it was that easy don’t you think they would have put this in place by now? I still honestly feel like there must be something preventing them from a fix.

6 months to add a ready now button upon que pop, if you don’t accept the game wont start and you’re kicked out of the que.

How, HOW can it take OVER SIX FREAKING MONTHS to add something so incredibly simple?

It’s mindblowing at how a AAA mmo can utterly fail at such basic features that most games have by default, whilst we here at Gw2 have to borderline freaking crusade to get something, anything done that should be fixed regardless of public outcry. LOL

Indeed PVP is on life support fix asap ty

Drafigo.4690:

aelfwe.4239:

Justin ODell.9517:

I had a match that started 4v5 today, we won but it’s still annoying.

We’re working on a solution that is both fair and, hopefully, doesn’t waste people’s time. Not ready to talk about the details yet, but I will say we have definitely incorporated a lot of the community’s feedback. Unfortunately, it won’t be in this feature build because it’s part of a major refactoring of our back-end systems.

Working? details? download and install every single moba in the world and check how queue work there:

1) you queue up
2) you wait
3) when queue is rdy game ask you to confirm with a countdown
4) if someone do not confirm during countdown it will removed from queue and another player will get it
5) repeat point 4 till you have 10 player rdy and go

About people leaving\going afk after countdown, do like smite: people who got too much ragequit\afk\dc get banished from ranked queue (yeah im meany but people with 150 childs and\or bad connection can do hotjoin rather than ruin fun for other people who want to ranked queue).

You have not to discover wheels. You have to copy it from every other game.

Ps. everyone has won a 4vs5 at least once. This is not a argument. 4vs5 are crappy designed queue system regardless winning or losing

PPs. and stop to say “we cant change queue system cause to few people do pvp and you have to wait too much” blablabla… because people atm isnt doing pvp because you are NOT doing these things.

If it was that easy don’t you think they would have put this in place by now? I still honestly feel like there must be something preventing them from a fix.

We are speaking of making 5vs5 being 5vs5 rather than 4vs5. We arent speaking of going to the moon.

Its a fact the every other game got it outside gw2. Lol got it. Dota got it. Smite got it too. And so on.. If it would be so hard then why every other single game got it except gw2?

The only difference between gw2 queue and smite queue is that, when queue pop up, in gw2 you havent to press anything to accept, while in smite you have to press confirm to enter the match.

So in gw2 if you are afk and your queue pop up at the end of countdown you are moved in the game leaving your mates being in 4.

In smite if you are afk and you queue pop up at the end of countdown you are removed from the queue and someone else take your spot.

2 years for having a feature that even low budget game got at release is way more that a reasonable time to solve any possible issue..

The only thing who prevent anet from fix it is the total absence of will and the fact anet prefer to use its resource on stuff like living story, NPE etc rather than in pvp.

A queue confirmation (basically like WWW) it would be great to prevent no show at beginning but not during the game.

So, besides this queue confirmation (or ready button, it has the same logic) we need a system to prevent 4vs5 during the match.

I like the frozen system, basically if your team is outnumbered, the other team gets a member “frozen” in the base when someone get killed, until the match comes to be with equal number. There is a frozen rotation, so basically when a guy is frozen in base and another teammate get killed, the dead guy takes his place and game continues with equal number (in case of 4vs5 we have a 4vs4).

There could be other system like a fast queue replacement, pause game or different tick time for nodes if outnumbered, but i prefer this sytem, i think it’s simpler.

Frozen system could be used for afk people too, besides disconnections.

+1 on this “Freeze” system, it might be annoying for a team to get a queue time on respawn, but it is surely less annoying than having a leaver (or dc) in your own team, and loose cause of that.
Side note, the player frozen at spawn can still help their team coordinating them, since he wont be in the heat of the battle he can just look at the map and call for rotations, i know it isnt that much but still better than the actual situation.

Another thing that is a must to introduce is a working report system, not something that sends ticket, it could just be an automated system that if someone gets X report for afking in a short time frame he gets a Y time ban from pvp.

cuge.5398:

if someone gets X report for afking in a short time frame he gets a Y time ban from pvp.

If someone get xx report for afking\ragequit\trolling in a short time frame he get perma ban from ranked queue. This would be better.

It could seem heavy but it isnt. Im pretty sure some perma ban from ranked queue will stop people to join solo queue just to troll.

+1 for freeze system.

All I am saying is there must be more to it! maybe the current system isn’t upgradeable. Maybe this requires a complete reprogramming of the function for it to work. Yes! it isn’t alright for a Dev to suggest that something is in the works and then nothing for 6 months. Hopefully one of the Devs will comment soon. I hear rumor that pvp has something coming soon, lots of speculation but we will see!

Maybe Next Year!

Drafigo.4690:

All I am saying is there must be more to it! maybe the current system isn’t upgradeable. Maybe this requires a complete reprogramming of the function for it to work. Yes! it isn’t alright for a Dev to suggest that something is in the works and then nothing for 6 months. Hopefully one of the Devs will comment soon. I hear rumor that pvp has something coming soon, lots of speculation but we will see!

Maybe Next Year!

The current system can be modified and upgraded whenever they want.
It does not require any complete reprogramming, actually they did much bigger stuff for PVE than what pvp need.
They always say they are working on kitten keep us quiet.
Dont believe when they say something BIG is coming soon, cause the reality is that there will be….. something coming in some time.

cuge.5398:

Drafigo.4690:

All I am saying is there must be more to it! maybe the current system isn’t upgradeable. Maybe this requires a complete reprogramming of the function for it to work. Yes! it isn’t alright for a Dev to suggest that something is in the works and then nothing for 6 months. Hopefully one of the Devs will comment soon. I hear rumor that pvp has something coming soon, lots of speculation but we will see!

Maybe Next Year!

The current system can be modified and upgraded whenever they want.
It does not require any complete reprogramming, actually they did much bigger stuff for PVE than what pvp need.
They always say they are working on kitten keep us quiet.
Dont believe when they say something BIG is coming soon, cause the reality is that there will be….. something coming in some time.

I understand your frustration, I do!

however do you work for Anet? Do you have a degree in computer science? Are you a computer programmer and know how to work with complicated code?? I bring this up because we scream and shot about features and upgrades, and we really have no clue what the hold up is. I believe its not a “I don’t want to do it” attitude but more of a technical issues. I get tired of these posts where the people involved really have no clue what they are asking. Again I Hope someone from Anet responds with something soon!

all Is not Vain!

To answer your questions…
Clearly not.
Almost.
yeh, i got an idea.

Do you really think that a team able to put up a game like gw2, that dish out updates where they modify all the item storage, wardrobe, skin management, and several other technically complicated updates cant put togheter some lines of code to prevent afkers to stay in matchmaking queue ? (or this freeze idea)
If a Dev step here and say they dont know how to code that…oh well, this game is doomed.

The fact is that its not on their priority list at the moment, its just all about that… marketing.
If their marketing guys say that living story progression and fluffy stuff in gemstore will provide the most revenues, those things will go higher on the priority list, and for everthing that comes next… i think the procedure to make it live is quite long, full of meetings to:

• decide what to work on and if to work on a new feature X, then….
• they will decide how this X should be like, then….
• if its worth to work on X, then….
• they work on it
• do some tests
• share thoughts, then…
• fix bugs
• more tests
• validate and commit
• if to release it in some strategic period and how to make hype for that new special super mega innovative X feature, then…. after some months it may go live.

The reason why we dont see many stuff we would like lies in some elements of this list, probably more than one point.

Maybe in the next feature patch. You know, the one for vets.