Guild Wars 2

It seems to me that many professions have traits that makes them extremely (passively) resistant to conditions, which in turn makes them almost impossible to kill with condition builds. Now, granted I play Condition Mesmer which is not a particularly strong condition damage profession, but what do other people think?

Condition damage by itself is very weak. It’s when you bring classes that can stack it where it hurts.

Trapper rangers+ele or engi hurt a lot, because burning and bleeding will be up on you no matter what, as likely will poison.

Classes that need more ramp up and only have one strong damage condition like necro or mesmer suffer. Mesmer is random burning or bleeding, but since the nature is random and they cannot frontload the stacks consistently and with plenty of cover conditions like the ranger or engineer can, they suffer.

Also, condition mesmer is wholly lacking on the aoe department, and both the condition mesmer and necro suffer from inferior survival vs. engineer and ranger.

Too many classes also have heals hat remove conditions, particularly poison before he heal applies (rendering the condition obsolete in many cases).

Quite frankly I think only the ranger and necro should have condi cleanse on healing given their theme of condition application/manipulation (both can magnet conditions, etc).

No.

Fighting a strong condition build (Necro, Engi, Ranger) is difficult as they have several sources of condition damage and application. This makes it difficult to cleanse the particular condition doing all the damage and also negates total cleansing.

Trying to cleanse that stack of bleed when it hits 10+ and is amongst several conditions is impractical.

Also having to wait till it gets to a high value means you’re taking huge damage over time.

Corrupt Boon and Epidemic are also very strong now.

So what you guys are saying is that condition cleansing is balanced against the most powerful condition damage professions, and therefore what needs to be done is all other condition damage professions need to be buffed significantly?

It’s interesting that your opinions on the condition Necro differ so greatly.

i think when facing classes or builds that are able to freely stack on conditions can be rough. or even facing groups that are condition heavy. sure we all know to get rid of high stacks. or get rid of poison if you need to heal. get rid of that ridiculous burning. that’s all in theory. when you have every condition thrown upon you with ease, even with a ton of condition removal, you might not be able to pick and choose and pin point which condition or which stack to remove.

and then at some times, even after you removed some, they can just as easily stack them back onto you.

so i dont’ think it’s too easy. and since i play Guardian, i haven’t spent much time in the conditions department, but i will argue that if you’re able to stack conditions, or mass transfer/etc, then that’s when they become really strong.

You need to consider though that conditions for condition builds are their primary source of damage. By removing them you’ve negated their damage. Direct damage can’t be completely negated this way.

My problem is with condition cleansing traits that allow you to cleanse conditions much more frequently than you can with skills alone.

Also, note that powerful condition cleansing traits are not readily available to all professions. This seems like too big a discrepancy to me and needs to be addressed, if such traits are supposed to balance “top level” condition damage.

you have your points definitely. though i want to say for classes that have a stronger or weaker cleansing ability, they would have “built” their character in a way they can cater to that. e.g. more HP if less removal, etc for one.

and while taking traits that passively / actively remove conditions, they are in a sense, indirectly giving up damage or another type of utility gained from taking one trait over another. i agree it’s a balance that needs to be reached, but that is also why there is also class diversity.

some classes will always be better at certain things.

I’d say it’s a bit of a power creep. Many condition appliers deal quite overkill damage, which is balanced by the fact that most professions have some way to cleanse conditions ridiculously effectively. That does however result in that professions that lack this overkill condition damage has a hard time dealing with all the condi removal, while they can still destroy classes that don’t bring as much condi removal.

How many Teams are using:

- Warrior Warhorn with Quick Breathing?
- Warrior Shouts with Runes of the Soldier?
- Shattered Conditions on Mesmer?
- Null Field on Mesmer?
- Plague Signet on Necro?
- Cleansing Water on any Ele builds besides Full-Tank?
- Staff Ele with Healing Rain?
- Ranger Pet “Brown Bear”?

There are still so many Condition-removals not being used on Popular classes and there are tons of Classes not being played that have insane Anti-Condition-Support.

So@Topic: No, good Anti-Condition isn’t that easy to achieve for most classes, but as long as we don’t see a need to implement some of the above mentioned Support, Conditions really can’t be that hard to deal with either.

It’s also not a bad thing that certain classes have a harder time getting rid of Conditions, because to a certain extent, there should be builds that can hard-counter other builds/classes.

IMHO, there is no need to temper with Conditions overall atm…

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

Yes. Conditions are both too easy to apply and to cleanse. Instead of being things you remove tactically it’s… just some stuff you spam. I guess you try to time some of your more powerful removals well. But there’s no more condition and cover condition, because that’s strategy and GW2 doesn’t like that kinda business.

GankSinatra.2653:

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

I don’t even know how they work exactly….

1) Do they trigger every 10 seconds and remove a condition even if there’s no condition on you at all?
2) Do they only trigger when you have a condition on you?
3) When exactly does the trigger “reset”? For example: I’m in the 10-second window (like at second 5) where I haven’t cleaned a condition with the Trait yet and I get one on me and it gets removed, do I have to w8 10 seconds now because the trigger reset, or 5 seconds until the next trigger is ready?

This makes quite a huge difference IMHO!

But yeah, passives like that are just so random and require no skill and ANet should move away of them. Simply connecting them to a dodge or a skill etc. just makes it that much less volatile and more skill-dependant.

PowerBottom.5796:

GankSinatra.2653:

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

I don’t even know how they work exactly….

1) Do they trigger every 10 seconds and remove a condition even if there’s no condition on you at all?
2) Do they only trigger when you have a condition on you?
3) When exactly does the trigger “reset”? For example: I’m in the 10-second window (like at second 5) where I haven’t cleaned a condition with the Trait yet and I get one on me and it gets removed, do I have to w8 10 seconds now because the trigger reset, or 5 seconds until the next trigger is ready?

This makes quite a huge difference IMHO!

But yeah, passives like that are just so random and require no skill and ANet should move away of them. Simply connecting them to a dodge or a skill etc. just makes it that much less volatile and more skill-dependant.

If the trait and signet or w/e are working on the same time then you lose 2 per 10 seconds… if they are alternating then its one every 5 seconds… It just depends on when you activated your signet that is clearing your conditions..

This is like asking if direct damage is too easy to reduce.

“Toughness is too OP, please nerf/remove”

Conditions and boons, in this game, are too easily spammed, imo. There’s so many means to get them outside of skills, like runes, sigils and (especially) traits, which makes stacking any of them a rather mindless task.

Sometime I wonder, if the convoluted trait system didn’t exist, and the character building was based around their skills only (with the tiny enhancements from equipment’s effects), if the game wouldn’t be more strategical. It probably would. When you look at the weapon’s and utility’s skills, they seem fairly balanced; but when you go watch the traits, it’s incredible at how many traits trivialize conditions spamming, boon spamming and condition cleansing,

conditions are fairly easy to cleanse, though i feel like this only hurts condition classes who aren’t able to apply a lot of unique conditions at a time (which is the real issue, not cleansing), condi cleanses rarely affect specs like a condi engi who can quickly apply almost every condition

As someone who plays warrior as a primary, no. As someone who also plays an Engi, yes and no. The problem I have with conditions is that some classes have a much easier time than others. Classes that get passive condition removal or a way to cleanse with minimal investment can get a bit more creative with their builds. Meanwhile, if I want really strong condition removal as a Engi I need to have Cleaning Formula 409, there are other ways to remove conditions but none as strong as that on engi.

Warriors have it even worse. Running Soldier runes with a warrior will make conditions hurt you a bit less sure, but as a result you’ll find yourself saving that FGJ as a clense rather than spamming it like you should be. Running “tanky” builds on a warrior doesn’t bring your sustainability anywhere near as good as what say guardians are capable of and the hit you take to your DPS doesn’t make it worth it outside of MAYBE WvW.

Runes of Lyssa with Signet of Stamina can get you 2 cleanses but both are around a 45 sec c/d even when traited and a condition centric build basically gets a free kill. Lyssa’s primary stat is also precision which isn’t as useful as other choices.

Quick breathing with warhorn doesn’t work proper on charge still as far as I’m aware and even if it did it’s still not removing that many conditions.

Across all classes condition removal should be more evenly distributed across all trees so that you don’t become locked into one tree if you want any sort of strong condition removal. As for classes that get it passively or with a low investment I’m not really sure what should be done about that.

I would agree with reducing condition cleansing to the level of access we see in healing IF a stat is added that works on dots like toughness works for direct damage.

My thoughts are that perhaps condition removal should be more heavily tied to utility skills rather than traits, that would solve the “for condition removal you must build a certain way” issue.

Using the Mesmer as an example, the only top tier condition cleanser it has is Shattered Conditions, yet it is never taken as there are few viable builds in the current meta that can incorporate it. Outside of that trait all the Mesmer’s condition cleansers are mediocre, which leaves the profession in general highly susceptible to conditions.

While I understand that some professions are meant to be better at dealing with conditions than others, I feel the discrepancy is too great: some professions can very easily incorporate powerful condition cleansers into their viable builds, to the point that some condition damage builds simply cannot touch them at all.

Which of course brings me to the next issue… building for condition damage with certain professions simply isn’t viable in the face of overwhelming condition cleansing that is easily available to other professions. Again yes, some professions should be able to deal condition damage better than others, but yet again the discrepancy is too great; not helped by the discrepancy in condition cleansing.

TL;DR: The gap of condition damage and cleansing power between professions is too great. Professions with poor condition damage do no damage at all to professions with great cleansing power.

Embolism.8106:

My thoughts are that perhaps condition removal should be more heavily tied to utility skills rather than traits, that would solve the “for condition removal you must build a certain way” issue.

Using the Mesmer as an example, the only top tier condition cleanser it has is Shattered Conditions, yet it is never taken as there are few viable builds in the current meta that can incorporate it. Outside of that trait all the Mesmer’s condition cleansers are mediocre, which leaves the profession in general highly susceptible to conditions.

While I understand that some professions are meant to be better at dealing with conditions than others, I feel the discrepancy is too great: some professions can very easily incorporate powerful condition cleansers into their viable builds, to the point that some condition damage builds simply cannot touch them at all.

Which of course brings me to the next issue… building for condition damage with certain professions simply isn’t viable in the face of overwhelming condition cleansing that is easily available to other professions. Again yes, some professions should be able to deal condition damage better than others, but yet again the discrepancy is too great; not helped by the discrepancy in condition cleansing.

TL;DR: The gap of condition damage and cleansing power between professions is too great. Professions with poor condition damage do no damage at all to professions with great cleansing power.

A mesmer asking for more condition removal, while simultaneously asking for other professions’ abilities to build for condition removal to be nerfed.

I’m sorry, but I really hope nobody on the development team takes your suggestion seriously. Mesmers are in an extremely good place at the moment compared to some others.

Not to mention, conditions are already extremely powerful in their current state when you build for them. Don’t underestimate the ability to cause an enemy’s health to steadily tick down, completely unhindered by armor. That instantly puts a time limit on the fight.

Really, I feel like the only people packing enough cleanses to keep up with condition stacking are Elementalists, and HGH Engineers maybe. In most other cases, those conditions go right back up.

Well not really..not when there are stuff like hgh out there free to roam..Maybe your bleed warrior get srcewed by cond removal but without it some classes would be uncontrolable

Seryi.7936:

A mesmer asking for more condition removal, while simultaneously asking for other professions’ abilities to build for condition removal to be nerfed.

I’m sorry, but I really hope nobody on the development team takes your suggestion seriously. Mesmers are in an extremely good place at the moment compared to some others.

Not to mention, conditions are already extremely powerful in their current state when you build for them. Don’t underestimate the ability to cause an enemy’s health to steadily tick down, completely unhindered by armor. That instantly puts a time limit on the fight.

Really, I feel like the only people packing enough cleanses to keep up with condition stacking are Elementalists, and HGH Engineers maybe. In most other cases, those conditions go right back up.

You’re missing the point entirely. This is not about the Mesmer, I used it as an example because it is the profession I have the most experience with.

(And if you read my original post you should realise that this is mainly about how certain professions’ condition builds cannot deal with certain professions’ condition cleansing, not about professions being unable to deal with condition builds.)

(Also, Power Mesmers are in a good state, it should be obvious that if I am biased my bias is towards Condition Mesmers; which are not part of the current meta because of the above reasons.)

To spell it out, some professions have very powerful condition damage, and some don’t. Some professions have very powerful condition cleansing, and some don’t. Together they create an extreme that I think needs to be lessened.

kostbabis.8791:

Well not really..not when there are stuff like hgh out there free to roam..Maybe your bleed warrior get srcewed by cond removal but without it some classes would be uncontrolable

And that’s the problem, isn’t it? Powerful condition cleansing is needed to balance a few professions’ powerful condition damage, which results in other professions with not-so-powerful condition damage being completely buried.

Given that condition damage has two stats devoted to it, I think all professions deserve to be able to make viable condition damage builds, not just the select few powerful enough to break through ridiculous condition cleansing.

PowerBottom.5796:

How many Teams are using:

- Warrior Warhorn with Quick Breathing?
- Warrior Shouts with Runes of the Soldier?
- Shattered Conditions on Mesmer?
- Null Field on Mesmer?
- Plague Signet on Necro?
- Cleansing Water on any Ele builds besides Full-Tank?
- Staff Ele with Healing Rain?
- Ranger Pet “Brown Bear”?

Besides my build using plague sig I agree… On a side note as a condition Necro… I have no issues with the removal of conditions Only phantasm mesmers ever carry null field, however the conditions are so easily reapplied (same goes for shattered conditions), and because they are glass they die all the same… I almost never see water eles used… I’ve NEVER seen a warrior using a warhorn. And almost all rangers I see are rocking spiders.

All builds use conditions to some extent and there are damaging and non-damaging conditions. A long immobilize is often more important to cleanse than a stack of 10 bleeds. Thus, every build should/does carry at least a little condition removal because it’s ridiculously important.

That’s why, if you try to build a damaging condition build that only has a couple ways to apply conditions, it’s going to be difficult. It would be nice if there was so much build diversity that every profession had an amazing condition build, but we’re still a way off from that goal, I’m afraid.

Embolism.8106:

It seems to me that many professions have traits that makes them extremely (passively) resistant to conditions, which in turn makes them almost impossible to kill with condition builds. Now, granted I play Condition Mesmer which is not a particularly strong condition damage profession, but what do other people think?

Agreed conditions are not as strong as they should be for teams, for 1v1 more build diversity would be nice.

The current mechanic of pop , pressure, wet noodle, is what makes conditions at least in team play less viable.

Nostalgia will scream well GW1 had it right, why not GW2? Part of the issue is the huge variance in HP and the way conditions are tracked ala a ton of timers.

I would like to see condition move to being a strong team pressure role, but with the way GW2 is built, I’m wary it’s even possible to reclaim the meta of it’s predecessor.

Answer: No since they are cleansed as last come last removed, so in principle you can hold someone immobile forever if you know how to stack your conditions for instance.

PowerBottom.5796:

GankSinatra.2653:

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

I don’t even know how they work exactly….

1) Do they trigger every 10 seconds and remove a condition even if there’s no condition on you at all?
2) Do they only trigger when you have a condition on you?
3) When exactly does the trigger “reset”? For example: I’m in the 10-second window (like at second 5) where I haven’t cleaned a condition with the Trait yet and I get one on me and it gets removed, do I have to w8 10 seconds now because the trigger reset, or 5 seconds until the next trigger is ready?

This makes quite a huge difference IMHO!

But yeah, passives like that are just so random and require no skill and ANet should move away of them. Simply connecting them to a dodge or a skill etc. just makes it that much less volatile and more skill-dependant.

Not requiring any skill is sort of the direction that arenanet has chosen to take Guild Wars 2. It’s their new theme.

ryston.7640:

PowerBottom.5796:

GankSinatra.2653:

I would be happy to see ‘clears a condition every 10 seconds’ crap go. Could you make a skill more boring and braindead than this? Entirety of Mesmers excluded.

I don’t even know how they work exactly….

1) Do they trigger every 10 seconds and remove a condition even if there’s no condition on you at all?
2) Do they only trigger when you have a condition on you?
3) When exactly does the trigger “reset”? For example: I’m in the 10-second window (like at second 5) where I haven’t cleaned a condition with the Trait yet and I get one on me and it gets removed, do I have to w8 10 seconds now because the trigger reset, or 5 seconds until the next trigger is ready?

This makes quite a huge difference IMHO!

But yeah, passives like that are just so random and require no skill and ANet should move away of them. Simply connecting them to a dodge or a skill etc. just makes it that much less volatile and more skill-dependant.

Not requiring any skill is sort of the direction that arenanet has chosen to take Guild Wars 2. It’s their new theme.

My problem with the system isn’t so much as requiring skill, so much as the lack of activity.

Sure, give a trait that allows you to remove a condition every ten seconds. You know what though? Turn it into a pseudo-virtues (I’m a guardian, sue me) that you have to physically activate. Funnily enough, each class has their own set of ‘extra’ unique skills IIRC, so this wouldn’t be hard to implement, though the UI may need to be adjusted to a certain degree.

More control is better. This solution is so simple that I’d actually be very disappointed If ANET didn’t do something like this. This is what we need really, simple solutions to problems that don’t need to exist. THEN we can worry about making GW2 into an esport.

Nope.

Conditions have one stat feeding them. Other attacks have 3. If you want to introduce a way for conditions to resist being removed you’ll need to introduce another stat so they can’t just collect vitality, toughness, and condition damage.

They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied. They require a single stat because the class needs the toughness and vitality to reapply the conditions and drop the target(s). Wouldn’t be fair if the damage was as high as it is, as reliable as it is, and still allowed you to avoid watering down your stats.

I think conditions are balanced really well in terms of strict pvp. The main issues for conditions and builds around them are isolated to WvW/PVE mainly (melandru runes + lemongrass food is OP in WvW and condition cap creates problems in dungeons/pve content, also condition builds are useless against objects/siege)

Atherakhia.4086:

Nope.

Conditions have one stat feeding them. Other attacks have 3. If you want to introduce a way for conditions to resist being removed you’ll need to introduce another stat so they can’t just collect vitality, toughness, and condition damage.

They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied. They require a single stat because the class needs the toughness and vitality to reapply the conditions and drop the target(s). Wouldn’t be fair if the damage was as high as it is, as reliable as it is, and still allowed you to avoid watering down your stats.

Conditions technically have two stats feeding them: Condition Damage and Condition Duration, and many professions have ways to inflict conditions on Critical Hit, so for those professions Precision also feeds into Conditions. That makes it three stats.

Besides, what stats you can invest in is largely limited by what stat distributions Anet has made available to us, and AFAIK there is no stat distribution that uses Condition Damage, Vitality and Toughness.

Atherakhia.4086:

Nope.

They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied.

I agree, but I think the point is that conditions need to:

1. Last longer
2. Be applied less easily
3. Be removed less easily
4. Do more damage per stack – alleviating the problem of the 25 stack limit

Currently you need multiple stacks of bleed to pose a threat to anyone. In the system I envision, having just one stack of bleed would be a cause for worry, let alone 25.

Conditions are fine…
Cleansing is fine…

Fast-stacking your Condis against classes heavy on condi-removal…is dumb.

After each cleanse you HAVE TO be able to reapply a condition again, if not you have to adjust your skill management.
Take a close look at matches between healing class vs. any condition specced classes. If condi class isnt able to reapply condis fast enough after each cleanse the whole fight wont come to an end or heal class will win over time.

…its about steady dmg to counter heal/reg.

Paradoxine.8192:

Atherakhia.4086:

Nope.

They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied.

I agree, but I think the point is that conditions need to:

1. Last longer
2. Be applied less easily
3. Be removed less easily
4. Do more damage per stack – alleviating the problem of the 25 stack limit

Currently you need multiple stacks of bleed to pose a threat to anyone. In the system I envision, having just one stack of bleed would be a cause for worry, let alone 25.

No you don’t..

Bleeds tick for 150 a stack. A ranger can maintain an 8 stack on 3 targets with relative ease. That’s 1200 dps per target. That’s a lot of damage considering you’ve completely ignored the pet, the base damage of the shot, any additional conditions, etc.

I’d sooner reduce condition damage by 30% across the board for all classes and then allow them to crit. That change alone would probably resolve the majority of bunker problems as well since the majority of bunker builds are all condition based.

Paradoxine.8192:

Currently you need multiple stacks of bleed to pose a threat to anyone. In the system I envision, having just one stack of bleed would be a cause for worry, let alone 25.

I’m sure the system you envision would be fantastic, but understand that it would be a completely different game than GW2. Sweeping changes that affect every build of every profession are usually made pre-alpha.

Atherakhia.4086:

Bleeds tick for 150 a stack.

bleeds dont tick for 150 unless you max out on stats and might

@topic

aoe condition cleansing is very strong with class stacking

like shout guard on one node, 1 ele on the other and 1 roamer ele
you literally cant apply condis fast enough when the opponent times it well

other than the aoe component id actually prefer to see more condi cleanses on some classes who dont have as many viable ones yet. Not a fan of the 1 condi every 10 sec traits they`re kinda random so meh.

Atherakhia.4086:

Paradoxine.8192:

Atherakhia.4086:

Nope.

They’re easily removed because they’re easily applied.

I agree, but I think the point is that conditions need to:

1. Last longer
2. Be applied less easily
3. Be removed less easily
4. Do more damage per stack – alleviating the problem of the 25 stack limit

Currently you need multiple stacks of bleed to pose a threat to anyone. In the system I envision, having just one stack of bleed would be a cause for worry, let alone 25.

No you don’t..

Bleeds tick for 150 a stack. A ranger can maintain an 8 stack on 3 targets with relative ease. That’s 1200 dps per target. That’s a lot of damage considering you’ve completely ignored the pet, the base damage of the shot, any additional conditions, etc.

I’d sooner reduce condition damage by 30% across the board for all classes and then allow them to crit. That change alone would probably resolve the majority of bunker problems as well since the majority of bunker builds are all condition based.

Don’t tell me what I do and don’t think please, thanks there champ.

What part of “Be applied less easily” do you not understand? Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension or do you just like to be a contrarian?

When I say applied less easily, I mean that less stacks are generated in the first place. So a necro wouldn’t apply a bleed every other spell and skill and guardians wouldn’t be able to keep up burning pseudo-indefinitely.

It’s replies like this that make me wonder whether the people who play PvP actually understand game balance at this point.

From the point of view of a Necromancer: Yes, conditions are cleansed way too often, and it makes sustaining damage incredibly difficult in group fights.

From the point of view of a Trap Ranger: Eh, it’s fine.

From the point of view of a HGH Engineer: LOL, what cleanses?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

From the point of view of a Necromancer: Yes, conditions are cleansed way too often, and it makes sustaining damage incredibly difficult in group fights.

From the point of view of a Trap Ranger: Eh, it’s fine.

From the point of view of a HGH Engineer: LOL, what cleanses?

From the point of view of a Soldiers rune Guard: They come and they go, no big deal.

On my guard I cleanse one condition every 10 seconds minimum, then one more every-time I activate a shout, of which I have three with relatively low cool downs. In harder fights where each skill activation is crucial (so ‘wasting’ Hold the Line on one stack of bleed would be a no no), I may have a harder time, but generally unless you are literally the condition spam king then you won’t touch me.

If I really wanted to make an anti-condition build (I’m not even trying at this point), I can go even further with minimal losses to combat effectiveness.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Paradoxine.8192:

Currently you need multiple stacks of bleed to pose a threat to anyone. In the system I envision, having just one stack of bleed would be a cause for worry, let alone 25.

I’m sure the system you envision would be fantastic, but understand that it would be a completely different game than GW2. Sweeping changes that affect every build of every profession are usually made pre-alpha.

I know and I think about this problem often. I don’t imagine rolling this out to PvE, it would be an entirely unnecessary change. The focus on PvE at the moment should be fixing rewards, loot tables and making boss encounters more nuanced. Anyway, I’m getting off topic.

Unfortunately, any change like this would require literally dozens upon dozens of skills to be systematically changed, rebalanced and delivered in one mammoth patch – you can’t just buff condition durations, nerf recharge etc and then not nerf cleansing.

Not to mention the fact that players can’t be reasonably expected to go into PvP and find that the condition system works literally completely differently at a basic level. One could pass it off as a learning curve but I don’t think its that easy really. If things like this had been fixed in beta then we could all be sitting back right now and enjoying things, but obviously we would still ask for thief nerfs every other thread

It’ll probably never happen.

I do, however still long for a system like this. Futile, maybe, but I can see so much potential in GW2 PvP that I can’t help myself. I do still enjoy PvP regularly though, If only the recent lag I’ve been getting in tournaments would give it a rest.