Guild Wars 2

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

S/d thiefs. Barely any counterplay to it.

Stream damage (Ele scepter air auto, Mesmer GS auto), attacks with a 0 or small cast time, AoE fields, cripple, chill, immob, weakness, movement-impeding lines or circles, using LS or the auto to your advantage, evading halfway through FS, keep close quarters, a well-timed CC, and a general understanding of thief animations and aftercasts are all extremely beneficial against S/D.

Everyone has their own opinion. I know how s/d thief works, I know when to land my burst and when I shouldn’t. For example right after a CC since IS has a cast time now. Still, a good thief will run 3 defensive utility slots, mainly shadow refuge, shadow step and infiltrator signet. Making it hard to actually land something if they know how to use it. Combine that with an insane amount of evades, a leap that immobilizes you once you try to kite and voila, you have an overpowered build imo.
No one ever complained about the boon removing, always the evades. Yet Anet decided to remove 1 boon steal from LS and make IS have a cast time. ( the change on IS wasn’t bad btw. )

I can win almost every match 1v1 against a warrior or even spirit rangers, but when I face a s/d thief I absolutely stand no chance what so ever.

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Wait, how is that possible that PU mesmers are better than shatter ones? I’ve never seen a PU one in soloqueue due to their reliance on stealth.

Howevwer, IMHO not hammer nor bow warrs are more towards A tier: they lack cc and aoe+easy condi clear through cleansing ire. They do one thing: rush and deal damage. They are stll strong, but not an all-in-one build anymore.

Other than that, how you define glass warriors? Are they only the ones with low armor and little condi removal and immunities or just the ones with little immunity/condi removal (example: no cleansing ire)?

Asking this because armor is definetely not the thing that most defines a warrior’s squishiness (Hambow has an unimpressive -to a warrior’s standard- 2400, 2500 above 90% health, but is one of most surviable warrior builds due to being able to afford 3 stances)

Talking about Tpvp/Soloqueue arena

S Tier
Hammer Longbow Warrior/Condi Warrior/Warrior S/A or S/S or A/S + LB
Bunker Guardian

A Tier
Trickery Thief (D/P, S/P)
Spirit Ranger
Bomb/Nade/R Engineer or Bunker Decapper Engi
Necro Condi

B Tier
Mesmer Shatter S/GS

C Tier
S/X Fresh Air Elementalist
Other DPS builds for engi/ranger
other general builds

D/P thieves are far more useful than S/D thieves. They should not be in the same tier.

S/D thieves could use a revert on the introduced cast time for IR, while compensating by reducing the gap-cover distance from Flanking Strike by 33%, so 3-3 spammers would be punished by bad positioning and counterplayed by good positioning.

Leeto.1570:

I dont get it how so many people can put condi necro in not top tier, and minionmancer above condimancer.
Maybe im just biased cause condimancer is my main but tbh i feel its most powerful prof/spec there is for overall dmg/support dmg.

Conditionmancer is fairly easy to manage, you can easily burst one down alone.
Minion master, on the other hand, is extremely tough to kill thanks also to the good life force generation coming from power weapon sets, while dealing massive damage through minions and having ridiculous sustain.

They aren’t as good in teamfights as conditionmancers are, but they are far more valuable to the team as node defenders even if played by a completely braindead player.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

D/P thieves are far more useful than S/D thieves. They should not be in the same tier.

S/D thieves could use a revert on the introduced cast time for IR, while compensating by reducing the gap-cover distance from Flanking Strike by 33%, so 3-3 spammers would be punished by bad positioning and counterplayed by good positioning.

ppl still have flashbacks… give them another month or so

From an out cast Ranger (doesn’t use melee weapons or spirits or bears)

Annoying as Trahearn:
1) Perma Stun Guardians
2) Hambow Warrior

Requires Thinking:
1)Mesmer
2) Thief
3) Condi Necro
4) MM Necro
Easy:
1) Ranger
2) Ele
3) Engineer
4) Power Necro
5) Zerker Guardian
6) Warriors in general

sorrow.2364:

Leeto.1570:

I dont get it how so many people can put condi necro in not top tier, and minionmancer above condimancer.
Maybe im just biased cause condimancer is my main but tbh i feel its most powerful prof/spec there is for overall dmg/support dmg.

Conditionmancer is fairly easy to manage, you can easily burst one down alone.
Minion master, on the other hand, is extremely tough to kill thanks also to the good life force generation coming from power weapon sets, while dealing massive damage through minions and having ridiculous sustain.

They aren’t as good in teamfights as conditionmancers are, but they are far more valuable to the team as node defenders even if played by a completely braindead player.

Well but thats not so true if you do stuff correctly, as condimancer doesnt rely on utilities for dmg he can take all utilities for survibility, so from my experience i dont remember any case where i die in 1v1 and can survive 1v2 and run away from 1vMore.
On average i die maybe 1-2 times per game and in most cases that is if all my other teammates are down or if some thief get me w/o cooldowns.
So the question comes to minionmancer. If condimancer is better at every thing beside node protecting, is MM better at node protecting than bunker ranger/guard/engi? If not then imo it could be max A tier, never S

MM is unbeatable 1v1 if the MM knows how to manage his minions and use his cc’s really well. i play my MM in tourneys and in hotjoins and when i play it in hotjoins i play it naked and i even know other MM’s who know how to use this build better.

redslion.9675:

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Wait, how is that possible that PU mesmers are better than shatter ones? I’ve never seen a PU one in soloqueue due to their reliance on stealth.

I play a PU Mesmer. You’re right that the stealth is unreliable, but when used in moderation, all of PU’s other strengths can make up for its usage.

redslion.9675:

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Howevwer, IMHO not hammer nor bow warrs are more towards A tier: they lack cc and aoe+easy condi clear through cleansing ire. They do one thing: rush and deal damage. They are stll strong, but not an all-in-one build anymore.

Other than that, how you define glass warriors? Are they only the ones with low armor and little condi removal and immunities or just the ones with little immunity/condi removal (example: no cleansing ire)?

Asking this because armor is definetely not the thing that most defines a warrior’s squishiness (Hambow has an unimpressive -to a warrior’s standard- 2400, 2500 above 90% health, but is one of most surviable warrior builds due to being able to afford 3 stances)

Hammer warriors might be more towards A tier after the recent nerfs (high A tier though), but LB should be a staple in almost any warrior build that isn’t glass. It’s amazing for condi removal, has a huge Fire field AoE, provides much-needed range, and has some extremely useful non-auto attacks. Warrs, however, can build to be an all-in-one if they want, which is why I wouldn’t change my choice for #2 in S tier.

To me, a glass warr is one that tries to get large spike/burst damage through maximizing Eviscerate, Volley, and/or Kill Shot damage.

So I might agree with the Hambow evaluation, but I wouldn’t bump it down much lower.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It would be nice to see a community built list that shows specs rated top>down for each class and role in all areas of play. This kind of feedback is really helpful for our team.

We’ve showed you ours, now it’s time for you to show us yours…

The general list is pretty clear by now, so I’ll just point out where I would differ from it.

PU mesmers and spirit rangers are generally too high up I feel. Spirit rangers got hit decently hard in the last patch, and lost a lot of 1v1 potential. I wouldn’t put them as high as most. PU mesmers really aren’t that strong in the PvP format, because they can’t hold a point due to stealth, and they don’t bring enough damage to a teamfight. Not a very impactful class.

I’d put MM necros a bit higher than most perhaps. It’s far too effective for far too little risk. Same goes for healing signet, it does far too much for far too little effort/risk.

I would also not place the elementalist THAT low. It’s becoming a very bandwagon-thing to just dump the ele for all purposes. Not to say it doesn’t need help, but you can definitely play it at any level.

Funny but i just cannot take anyone placing warrior or necro above guardian.Guardian is not A rank but is must and GOD of spvp/tpvp/wvw anything else that implies grouping.Pretty clear picture about what is the current gw2 pvp playerbase right here in this thread.

Arganthium.5638:

redslion.9675:

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Howevwer, IMHO not hammer nor bow warrs are more towards A tier: they lack cc and aoe+easy condi clear through cleansing ire. They do one thing: rush and deal damage. They are stll strong, but not an all-in-one build anymore.

Other than that, how you define glass warriors? Are they only the ones with low armor and little condi removal and immunities or just the ones with little immunity/condi removal (example: no cleansing ire)?

Asking this because armor is definetely not the thing that most defines a warrior’s squishiness (Hambow has an unimpressive -to a warrior’s standard- 2400, 2500 above 90% health, but is one of most surviable warrior builds due to being able to afford 3 stances)

Hammer warriors might be more towards A tier after the recent nerfs (high A tier though), but LB should be a staple in almost any warrior build that isn’t glass. It’s amazing for condi removal, has a huge Fire field AoE, provides much-needed range, and has some extremely useful non-auto attacks. Warrs, however, can build to be an all-in-one if they want, which is why I wouldn’t change my choice for #2 in S tier.

To me, a glass warr is one that tries to get large spike/burst damage through maximizing Eviscerate, Volley, and/or Kill Shot damage.

So I might agree with the Hambow evaluation, but I wouldn’t bump it down much lower.

Yeah, sorry, I forget that I’m the one trying to nerf myself.XD

So it would be something like S-Hambow/Condi war, A-Sustained damage half-tanky builds (not hambow and without 3 stances), B-Burst centered ones?

However, I agree hambows are too good for how simple that build is. And that is the bane of the class: warriors should be simple to grasp, yet challenging to play effectively. Giving them easy access to range and cc makes them both easy to grasp and easy to play effectively, ruining the game for everyone.

Here is a list that ranks professions/specs according to how much influence they have in creating the meta.

S tier—huge impact on both builds and strategies
Burst thief (locks out all other glass builds)
Condi necro (only major player that forces cleansing to be in every build and can aoe pressure)

A tier
Bunker guardian (requires some countering/consideration but not from every player on a team)
Bomb/nade engineer (combo of CC and condi spam, but can generally be focused out so has less impact)

B tier
Hambow warriors (like a mini engi but cannot be focused)
Spirit ranger/tank warrior (when has anyone said “but how do we handle their spirit rangers!?” You don’t change much when facing them but they have become a benchmark for viability)

C tier—minimal influence on meta
Zerk warrior/necro/guard (aoe burst making a comeback as players are running a little less defense. Lich form keeping people honest since beta)
Elementalist (same as above, plus have team healing, cannot overcome thief barrier however)
Mesmer

D tier—non meta builds have little to no influence

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

How is Rifle engi on par with a power ranger? I’ve beaten “A” tier builds and even some “S” tier builds with a power engi, and no there weren’t crappy players. Not to mention the crazy amount of stomping/resing you can get off with one.

I think I disagree with most of this list =/ I think you’re rating them based on how easy they are, not how good they are when placed in the hands of a good player.

some power rangers can beat engi’s too and it doesnt matter what build that they use. :P

Josh Davis.6015:

snip

Imo in order from top to bottom, top being the best, and bottom being the worst – Divided by tactic = my list:

~ Dueling – 1vs1 build only ~

• Mesmer/PU
• Necro
• Thief
• Ranger
• Warrior
• Guardian
• Engi
• Ele

~ Capping – Moving from point to point ~

• Thief w/Shortbow and Shadow step
• Mesmer
• Ele
• Warrior
• Engi
• Ranger
• Guardian
• Necro

~ Bunkering ~

• Guardian
• Warrior
• Ranger
• Ele
• Necro
• Engi
• Mesmer
• Thief

~ Class Stacking – Best team comp ~

• 3 Thieves
• 1 Ranger
• 1 Necro

problem with thieves is that if they didnt kill the enemies fast enough their teammates will die. thieves dont get focused because they fight in and out of stealth. i dont think having three thieves in 1 team is good. 1 thief is enough.

Leeto.1570:

Well but thats not so true if you do stuff correctly, as condimancer doesnt rely on utilities for dmg he can take all utilities for survibility, so from my experience i dont remember any case where i die in 1v1 and can survive 1v2 and run away from 1vMore.
On average i die maybe 1-2 times per game and in most cases that is if all my other teammates are down or if some thief get me w/o cooldowns.
So the question comes to minionmancer. If condimancer is better at every thing beside node protecting, is MM better at node protecting than bunker ranger/guard/engi? If not then imo it could be max A tier, never S

You can’t take all utilities for survivability, not to say that the utilities for survivability are meh.

You are supposed to take at least Corrupt Boon and, perhaps, Signet of Spite as a conditionmancer. Even if you take Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall, you can’t match the innate survivability of minion masters due to higher health pool (so higher LF pool), higher toughness, better sustain and better life force generation. There is also the visual clutter factor, when Asuras blend so nicely among big minions, making it hard to target or even read the animations.

Conditionmancers are quite easy to kill even in 1vs1 if you know what you’re doing. The trick is to chain stun, bursting them down before they have a chance to build up conditions on you. Most of them don’t even have enough LF to go Death Shroud anyway.

Valentin.2073:

problem with thieves is that if they didnt kill the enemies fast enough their teammates will die. thieves dont get focused because they fight in and out of stealth. i dont think having three thieves in 1 team is good. 1 thief is enough.

It’s hard to say, I’m going off my best SoloQ match which was 34-500….it could have been a fluke too, but once me and the necro got two points, the 3 thieves were literally zerging back and forth between our points and taking people out faster than they could respond. Again, it may have been a lucky match, but having Wunzy, Toker, Chiggs or Ostricheggz on my team in an average match make things pretty easy.

Bsgapollo.5364:

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

S/d thiefs. Barely any counterplay to it.

Stream damage (Ele scepter air auto, Mesmer GS auto), attacks with a 0 or small cast time, AoE fields, cripple, chill, immob, weakness, movement-impeding lines or circles, using LS or the auto to your advantage, evading halfway through FS, keep close quarters, a well-timed CC, and a general understanding of thief animations and aftercasts are all extremely beneficial against S/D.

Everyone has their own opinion. I know how s/d thief works, I know when to land my burst and when I shouldn’t. For example right after a CC since IS has a cast time now. Still, a good thief will run 3 defensive utility slots, mainly shadow refuge, shadow step and infiltrator signet. Making it hard to actually land something if they know how to use it. Combine that with an insane amount of evades, a leap that immobilizes you once you try to kite and voila, you have an overpowered build imo.
No one ever complained about the boon removing, always the evades. Yet Anet decided to remove 1 boon steal from LS and make IS have a cast time. ( the change on IS wasn’t bad btw. )

I can win almost every match 1v1 against a warrior or even spirit rangers, but when I face a s/d thief I absolutely stand no chance what so ever.

There’s a difference between opinion and fact. However much you think you know about S/D, I know ten times more. I’ve mained S/D for half a year, and it has been the build type that I’ve theory crafted, by far, the most.

The moment that your opponent uses Shadow Refuge for purely defensive reasons and not to rez an ally, you’ve won a fight.

The number of evades is again easy to counter once you understand Feline Grace and animations (there’s also a large aftercast on FS that can make a thief extremely vulnerable).

It’s not a leap, but it’s just as predictable as one. The damage on it is very small and the immob is extremely short. Also, the inability to kite is another reason (among many) that you shouldn’t be afraid to keep close quarters.

If you think the change on IS/IR wasn’t bad, please, go play S/D and tell me the result.

The other day I faced a meta 10/30/0/30/0 S/D thief and the vast majority of my damage came from auto attacks, and I won most of our fights. It’s very easy to play against S/D when you have a very good understanding of it. Then it’s our job to try to counter your counters.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

How is Rifle engi on par with a power ranger? I’ve beaten “A” tier builds and even some “S” tier builds with a power engi, and no there weren’t crappy players. Not to mention the crazy amount of stomping/resing you can get off with one.

I think I disagree with most of this list =/ I think you’re rating them based on how easy they are, not how good they are when placed in the hands of a good player.

Rifle burst engis are rare nowadays because of how gimmicky they are, and how obvious their animations are. But like I said in the intro to my post, I’m also comparing builds based on how good the alternatives for their roles are. A rifle warr can just use Volley and become almost infinitely better than a rifle engi.

And I even specifically mentioned that I’m evaluating builds based on the skill of the average player because I knew somebody would use the argument you’re using. A good D/P or S/D thief would easily be on A Tier and maybe even lower S Tier. It’s just that, if you put one of those builds in the hands of an average player/thief, it would easily be a B Tier build.

I’d rather have a rifle engi than a rifle warrior. Engies tend to work better with vigor and a more mobile fight. Blunderbuss deals very good damage, same goes for jumpshot, and even Overchaged shot can off someone pretty good.

And take into account a SD engi can also block, has lots of healing thanks to medkit (with healing cooldown reset at 25% health) and has good cc.
Oh, and you can use Surprise Shot and Analyze while blocking. Which IMHO is pretty neat.

Rifle on warrior IMHO is far inferior for its damage relies only on Volley and Killshot.

Thief perspective (s/d lyssa)

I
every warrior exept only mele
II
engies with crowbar
necros condi
III
non-glass mesmers
bunker guards
silly rangers
silly thieves s/d lyssas

IV
rest weak builds (eles, minion necros etc)
dagger thief weakest becouse no immunity over time

I must point out that there is no room for thief in pro team becouse they die to two hits. They had insane mobility but no ability to sustain dmg. Currently they have avarage mobility (sword return nerf) and no sustain (no immunity to dmg over time).

sorrow.2364:

Leeto.1570:

Well but thats not so true if you do stuff correctly, as condimancer doesnt rely on utilities for dmg he can take all utilities for survibility, so from my experience i dont remember any case where i die in 1v1 and can survive 1v2 and run away from 1vMore.
On average i die maybe 1-2 times per game and in most cases that is if all my other teammates are down or if some thief get me w/o cooldowns.
So the question comes to minionmancer. If condimancer is better at every thing beside node protecting, is MM better at node protecting than bunker ranger/guard/engi? If not then imo it could be max A tier, never S

You can’t take all utilities for survivability, not to say that the utilities for survivability are meh.

You are supposed to take at least Corrupt Boon and, perhaps, Signet of Spite as a conditionmancer. Even if you take Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor and Spectral Wall, you can’t match the innate survivability of minion masters due to higher health pool (so higher LF pool), higher toughness, better sustain and better life force generation. There is also the visual clutter factor, when Asuras blend so nicely among big minions, making it hard to target or even read the animations.

Conditionmancers are quite easy to kill even in 1vs1 if you know what you’re doing. The trick is to chain stun, bursting them down before they have a chance to build up conditions on you. Most of them don’t even have enough LF to go Death Shroud anyway.

Reading the animation is always a pain in the kitten on Asura. The main thing I find difficult about MM when I face them on my condimancer is the start of matches when building life force is huge for the condi mesmer and not such a big deal for MM. I will say though with a full life force bar they are at a significant disadvantage even if they also have a full bar since I have a lot more time to ramp up condi’s and of course transfers back.

And yea, like you said; biggest issue is always getting that life force built up in a match. Once we have it though we are quite tough to kill. Blowing our elite early also helps tank a bit.

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

S/d thiefs. Barely any counterplay to it.

Stream damage (Ele scepter air auto, Mesmer GS auto), attacks with a 0 or small cast time, AoE fields, cripple, chill, immob, weakness, movement-impeding lines or circles, using LS or the auto to your advantage, evading halfway through FS, keep close quarters, a well-timed CC, and a general understanding of thief animations and aftercasts are all extremely beneficial against S/D.

Everyone has their own opinion. I know how s/d thief works, I know when to land my burst and when I shouldn’t. For example right after a CC since IS has a cast time now. Still, a good thief will run 3 defensive utility slots, mainly shadow refuge, shadow step and infiltrator signet. Making it hard to actually land something if they know how to use it. Combine that with an insane amount of evades, a leap that immobilizes you once you try to kite and voila, you have an overpowered build imo.
No one ever complained about the boon removing, always the evades. Yet Anet decided to remove 1 boon steal from LS and make IS have a cast time. ( the change on IS wasn’t bad btw. )

I can win almost every match 1v1 against a warrior or even spirit rangers, but when I face a s/d thief I absolutely stand no chance what so ever.

There’s a difference between opinion and fact. However much you think you know about S/D, I know ten times more. I’ve mained S/D for half a year, and it has been the build type that I’ve theory crafted, by far, the most.

The moment that your opponent uses Shadow Refuge for purely defensive reasons and not to rez an ally, you’ve won a fight.

The number of evades is again easy to counter once you understand Feline Grace and animations (there’s also a large aftercast on FS that can make a thief extremely vulnerable).

It’s not a leap, but it’s just as predictable as one. The damage on it is very small and the immob is extremely short. Also, the inability to kite is another reason (among many) that you shouldn’t be afraid to keep close quarters.

If you think the change on IS/IR wasn’t bad, please, go play S/D and tell me the result.

The other day I faced a meta 10/30/0/30/0 S/D thief and the vast majority of my damage came from auto attacks, and I won most of our fights. It’s very easy to play against S/D when you have a very good understanding of it. Then it’s our job to try to counter your counters.

I mean’t it wasn’t bad as in, it wasn’t a bad nerf to the class/build. but like I said before, you believe your “facts” and I have reason to believe the build is still extremely broken despise of what other people might say. but hey, I will take your advice, try to improve my skills even more with it, and maybe 1 day i’ll be able to say, well kitten, that s/d thief really outplayed me. Although that day has yet still to come.

Also if you’ve ever played ele before you know there’s very little you can do against this build, just my 2 cents

Bsgapollo.5364:

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

Arganthium.5638:

Bsgapollo.5364:

S/d thiefs. Barely any counterplay to it.

Stream damage (Ele scepter air auto, Mesmer GS auto), attacks with a 0 or small cast time, AoE fields, cripple, chill, immob, weakness, movement-impeding lines or circles, using LS or the auto to your advantage, evading halfway through FS, keep close quarters, a well-timed CC, and a general understanding of thief animations and aftercasts are all extremely beneficial against S/D.

Everyone has their own opinion. I know how s/d thief works, I know when to land my burst and when I shouldn’t. For example right after a CC since IS has a cast time now. Still, a good thief will run 3 defensive utility slots, mainly shadow refuge, shadow step and infiltrator signet. Making it hard to actually land something if they know how to use it. Combine that with an insane amount of evades, a leap that immobilizes you once you try to kite and voila, you have an overpowered build imo.
No one ever complained about the boon removing, always the evades. Yet Anet decided to remove 1 boon steal from LS and make IS have a cast time. ( the change on IS wasn’t bad btw. )

I can win almost every match 1v1 against a warrior or even spirit rangers, but when I face a s/d thief I absolutely stand no chance what so ever.

There’s a difference between opinion and fact. However much you think you know about S/D, I know ten times more. I’ve mained S/D for half a year, and it has been the build type that I’ve theory crafted, by far, the most.

The moment that your opponent uses Shadow Refuge for purely defensive reasons and not to rez an ally, you’ve won a fight.

The number of evades is again easy to counter once you understand Feline Grace and animations (there’s also a large aftercast on FS that can make a thief extremely vulnerable).

It’s not a leap, but it’s just as predictable as one. The damage on it is very small and the immob is extremely short. Also, the inability to kite is another reason (among many) that you shouldn’t be afraid to keep close quarters.

If you think the change on IS/IR wasn’t bad, please, go play S/D and tell me the result.

The other day I faced a meta 10/30/0/30/0 S/D thief and the vast majority of my damage came from auto attacks, and I won most of our fights. It’s very easy to play against S/D when you have a very good understanding of it. Then it’s our job to try to counter your counters.

I mean’t it wasn’t bad as in, it wasn’t a bad nerf to the class/build. but like I said before, you believe your “facts” and I have reason to believe the build is still extremely broken despise of what other people might say. but hey, I will take your advice, try to improve my skills even more with it, and maybe 1 day i’ll be able to say, well kitten, that s/d thief really outplayed me. Although that day has yet still to come.

Also if you’ve ever played ele before you know there’s very little you can do against this build, just my 2 cents

Well, part of the reason why there isn’t much you can do is that ele is in an absolutely awful place atm. Theoretically, Scepter’s air attunement should be good against S/D, but the overall weakness of ele right now ruins the advantage. Although I did create a staff ele build that focused on area denial as opposed to the regular staff ele’s burst- insanely fun, though still bad due to the relative state of ele versus other classes. Still, it must’ve had the highest skill ceiling of any build I’ve played ever and, in a balanced meta, should have a theoretical advantage against S/D thieves.

This list is based off usefulness in typical team fight/conquest situations and builds that accomplish their goal quickly (e.g. burst down targets/strip boons) or point hold (e.g. mitigate damage, point hold, and support teammates) - not ’the best 1v1 builds’. If other game modes were introduced (such as pure death match), this meta would absolutely be different.

Obviously not every build is listed below; I refrained from commenting on builds I have not personally tried myself!

++ Tier 1 ++

+ Elementalist (1)
- (none, although high burst conjure weapon builds are close here; see Tier 2)

+ Engineer (1)
- Rifle Tank
- Condi Nade/Bomb Roaming Variants

+ Guardian (1)
- Bunker Guardian

+ Mesmer (1)
- Shatter (S/P or S/F + GS)
- PU (S/P + Staff)

+ Necromancer (1)
- MM Necro
- Condi Necro (S/D + Staff)

+ Ranger (1)
- Spirit Ranger (Argueably could be Tier 2, but a little more access to stability and this build would wreck Tier 1)

+ Thief (1)
- D/P + Sbow (Caed’s 10/30/0/0/30 build)
- S/P Power (good against certain make-ups)

+ Warrior (1)
- Hambow

++ Tier 2 ++

+ Elementalist (2)
- Conjure Weapon S/D Builds (Argueably could be Tier 1, but as long as you are on your toes it’s pretty easy to avoid and counter)
- Staff Tank
- Staff Zerk

+ Engineer (2)
- Pure Power Build

+ Guardian (2)
- Burst Build

+ Mesmer (2)
- Condi Build

+ Necromancer (2)
- Tank/Well

+ Ranger (2)
- Condi Traps
- Signet Bunker

+ Thief (2)
- P/D Condi
- S/D Power (if you desperately need more boon stripping)

+ Warrior (2)
- Bunker Variants
- GS Power builds
- S/S + Longbow Condi

++ Tier 3 ++

+ Elementalist (3)
- D/D hybrid
- D/D tank
- D/D glass

+ Engineer (3)
- (none)

+ Guardian (3)
- (none)

+ Mesmer (3)
- Tank Build

+ Necromancer (3)
- (none)

+ Ranger (3)
- Power / Longbow + GS

+ Thief (3)
- (None)

+ Warrior (3)
- Power Rifle / GS

docMed.7692:

Snip

Am I reading this right ? In ever tier you listed elementalist as nr. 1? Imagine me saying this with a british accent, Are you out of your mind ?

my opinion is, that proper played every class/build becomes very good, it depends allways on the player and players gameplay…it is just, that some builds are (ridiculous) easier to play than others, becouse of several classmechanics and gamemechanics (traits, utility skills, runes)

on the other hand all classes/builds are very limited to the gamemode, becouse qonquest/defend prefers specific gamemode builds….my guess is, that with new gamemodes the variability of classes/builds will grow (as seen in wvw, where other classes/builds are used than in spvp)

generally i would say, that every ai build and builds with many passive effects are very easy to play (but they dont need to be op)

in my opinion rune of lyssa is game-winning, becouse 3 classes can abuse the 6. rune effect, becouse of the low icd….if the 6. rune effect would be different(maybe, that all conditions, that are applied on the player are transformed into boons by using the elite), or unabuseable by increasing the icd to 120 sec, than warriors woudnt be as strong as some players may see them, than thieves woudnt train mesmers/eles/other powerspeccs to death, my guess
(i think, that every class has enough condiclear, if specced and no class should rely on runes for condiclear….this becames an extra utility, wich can be abused by warriors, thieves, necros, becouse of the low icd, this shoudnt be the case, not to mention the boon grant, even if its just for 5 to 6 secs)

and at least i want to write, that it is often just a l2p issue, even if the effort to play some classes/builds is much higher compared to other classes/builds

easy to play: -warriors with healing signet and berzerker stance, especially hambows (very effective)-teamsupport, roamer, node defender, high aoe dps
-pu mesmers, especially condition specced (effective)-dps, rly annoying to play against, high condi pressure
-spirit ranger (very effective)-teamsupport, node defender, dps, farpoint assaulter
-beastmaster, especially condition specced (effective)-node defender, dps
-phantasm mesmer, especially power specced (effective)-node defender, farpoint assaulter, teamsupport, dps
-minionmaster necro, especially power/tanky specced (effective)-node defender, dps, farpoint assaulter
-decap/bunker engi (effective)- farpoint/enemypoint assaulter, node defender

not so easy to play: -bunker guard (very effective)-teamsupport, node defender
-off guard (effective)-high dps, roamer, farpoint assaulter
-fearmancer/condimancer (very effective)-high dps, high condi pressure
-sd/sp/dp/dd thieves (very effective)-high singletarget dps, roamer, farpoint assaulter
-shatter mesmer (effective)-high dps, teamsupport, roamer/farpoint assaulter with portal
-condi mesmer (not rly effective)-dps, teamsupport, node defender
-condi engi (effective)-farpoint assaulter, teamsupport, dps
-warriors without healing signet and berzerker stance, especially with greatsword (not rly effective)- dps, roamer
-traper ranger (not rly effective)-node defend, condi aoe dps

hard to play: -powerranger (effective)-dps, roamer, farpoint assaulter
-fresh air ele, especially sf/sd (effective)-high aoe and singletarget dps, roamer
-bunker dd/sd ele (effective)-teamsupport, node defender
-off dd ele (effective)-teamsupport, roamer, high aoe dps
-powerengi, especially with rifle (effective)-high dps, roamer, farpoint assaulter
-staffele (effective)-teamsupport, high aoe dps, node defender
-lockdown mesmer (effective)-teamsupport, dps, node defender

! the effectiveness is just my opinion based on team and solo tourneys i played, every class/build bad played becomes ineffective !

I broke out builds between 3 tiers; 1 being the best, 3 being the worst. From there I sorted them by classes alphabetically. The highest ELE build is Tier 2. That means I consider all the Tier 1 builds better for the scenario I outlined above (i.e. 5v5 Conquest). Each build listed per tier is consider comprable to its counterparts.

Well we do get the occasional crazy who thinks Ele’s are a top-tier class in SPvP, no community is complete without it’s share of crazies -_-

Wintel.4873:

Well we do get the occasional crazy who thinks Ele’s are a top-tier class in SPvP, no community is complete without it’s share of crazies -_-

He said there are NO ele builds at top tier.

He decided to make tiers by BUILD and not by class. And then showed for each class which build belongs to which tier. And Ele has no top tier builds.

redslion.9675:

Wintel.4873:

Well we do get the occasional crazy who thinks Ele’s are a top-tier class in SPvP, no community is complete without it’s share of crazies -_-

He said there are NO ele builds at top tier.

He decided to make tiers by BUILD and not by class. And then showed for each class which build belongs to which tier. And Ele has no top tier builds.

That makes more sense already

docMed.7692:

-snip-

Best list yet imo. Can’t really see anything I’d disagree with.

I wanted to share my take on certain builds and where they stand. If I don’t mention a specific build that it’s probably because I haven’t encountered it enough to give it a fair opinion.

This is for sPvP mostly, based on SoloQ and TeamQ experiences. Things are different in WvW where the +40% Condition food among other things makes a HUGE difference.

1. Overpowered

• Warriors, more specifically Healing Signet. It’s the best heal for almost all builds and has the strongest HPS of any passive heal in game. Unlike other passive heals it also doesn’t have any conditional attached to it. It ticks always, all the time. Without Healing Signet Warriors would just be strong, but not really overpowered.
• Necromancers, both the Condition bombing build and the Minion Masters. Personally I think Minion Masters are especially strong in 1v1, but slightly less useful in group-fights. However Necromancers popular builds definitely carry them into the top tier.
• Spirit Rangers, this is borderline, but the fact that they can instantly self-rezz and are so easy to play really makes them overpowered. If they got away with less passive play and auto-attack spamming, caused less screen-clutter and couldn’t self-rezz I’d find them much more acceptable.
• Engineers, more specifically their Condition Bunker builds. These are rare outside of TeamQ but kitten are they overpowered. Nigh unkillable even by multiple players and able to apply significant condition pressure. Not ok.

2. Strong

• Guardians, both Bunkers and well-played DPS Guardians. I was tempted to put Bunker Guardians as overpowered considering how much punishment they can take and how imperative they are to Conquest. But at least they pay the price of having to give up almost all offensive power to do so. I’d like to see them Bunkers being slightly squisher in favor of slightly more DPS.
• Other Necromancer builds. I feel that a Necro is always useful even if not following a FotM build. The conditions, the AoE pressure and the ability to take quite some punishment are invaluable.
• Thief, all popular builds. I think Thieves have their niche and can fill it in multiple ways. S/D and D/P being the most effective means. While their role is limited they do fill it quite well and require slightly more attention than other classes. It would be nice if Thieves could fulfill other roles too, but that’s something of a 1st World Problem.
• Mesmers are a borderline case again. They are generally quite good but again don’t have a field they excel in. They have some strong builds but nothing quite as overpowered as some others. Other builds are just generally average. I don’t really PvP much on my Mesmer so I can’t give much quality feedback.
• Engineers, non-bunker builds – I’ve always felt Engineers have a lot to offer and is a valuable asset in all situations. I don’t know specific builds but they certainly don’t suck.

Average or worse

• Elementalist – I can’t really comment much on them since they underwent some major changes recently. But in sPvP it’s a class that has never caused me trouble nor felt all that useful compared to others. Currently there aren’t any situations in sPvP where I’d like to have an Elementalist over….say a Necromancer.
• Non-Spirit Ranger – Rangers that don’t use the Spirit Ranger build are rarely much of a challenge. Maybe the players I’ve met were just bad but they don’t really seem to have any unique strengths to help define them.

Bare in mind that any nerf to the overpowered classes automatically makes the other better. Currently balance isn’t terrible, at least not in sPvP, but it does require some attention. WvW however is a different matter completely.

style.6173:

ens.9854:

Here is a list that ranks professions/specs according to how much influence they have in creating the meta.

S tier—huge impact on both builds and strategies
Burst thief (locks out all other glass builds)
Condi necro (only major player that forces cleansing to be in every build and can aoe pressure)

A tier
Bunker guardian (requires some countering/consideration but not from every player on a team)
Bomb/nade engineer (combo of CC and condi spam, but can generally be focused out so has less impact)

B tier
Hambow warriors (like a mini engi but cannot be focused)
Spirit ranger/tank warrior (when has anyone said “but how do we handle their spirit rangers!?” You don’t change much when facing them but they have become a benchmark for viability)

C tier—minimal influence on meta
Zerk warrior/necro/guard (aoe burst making a comeback as players are running a little less defense. Lich form keeping people honest since beta)
Elementalist (same as above, plus have team healing, cannot overcome thief barrier however)
Mesmer

D tier—non meta builds have little to no influence

Seriously? You really must be kidding with this list.

Like I said, they are in order of influence.
Literally no class can run glass besides thief because of thief being so efficient at killing them. Nothing else has such influence over what people can play. Necro is the second biggest consideration, if it weren’t for necro, teams/players would not have to prioritize condition removal above basically everything else (except classes that never see melee ie. mesmer).

And so on. Spirit rangers could easily be swapped out by other bunkerish builds 90% of the time and it would hardly change anything. Hambow warriors do not require your team to build around defeating them. Just because they are strong does not mean they are forcing every other profession out of potential builds the way that thief/necro do.

All ai builds needs to be looked at:

Low skill-high reward:
Spirit Rangers
Minion Mancer
PU Mesmer

No one uses:
Spirit Guardians

Stop ranking rangers in the top tier, spirit ranger is “ok” and can still be replaced by other specs.
Rangers are in a very bad place right now with only 1 viable and pretty passive-based build, ALL other effective ways to use a ranger are unviable.
When you rank rangers high up you’re making it look like they need a nerf, BUT how can they further nerf the spirit build without nerfing the already weak builds? they already punished every ranger build enough by reducing the endurance bonus from 50% to 25%…

Not seeing mm necro high enough on peoples list. Here is a list of what people play in solo and team queue that I see every day.

1) MM necro atleast one usually 2 or more on each team every single match.
2) Healing singet warrior atleast 1 on enemy team every single match.
3)MM necro or healing singet warrior again lol
4) Everything else a sprinkling of thief guardian engi mes or spirit ranger here and there.
5) Ele probably least played class in solo and team queue

I think one of the major problems is each class has few build options. The more options, the better the class. For all the warrior is hated, outside of hambow, what can it do better than another class? It cannot bunker better than atleast 2 other classes, it cannot really roam too well (again, better classes for that), in fact its kind of a one trick pony. Its one hell of a trick mind, but thats all its really got.

Top class classes for outright winning potential
Warrior – Hambow IS really good though, great damage and condition removal. I think thats the real issue, not the healing signet. They can always beat a burster, that hammer is great at control and hits hard, and as warriors have one of the highest health pools, they can afford to drop some defensive stats and still remain tougher than your average glass. (compare thief which is a common glass class, they have barely any health, and stealth is not as good as people think it is, if anything it gimps the class into a role that something like a warrior will do better in some cases).

Necros – Lots of builds to roll with, and some classes have real issues with them. Again, high health pool and smart usage of the 2nd health bar will mean they can also go burst without suffering too much on the defense. Are you noticing a pattern here yet?

Mesmer – I hate this class with so much venom, a well played mesmer against my thief and I just cannot get them. Not too hard to take on the class builds, but the smarter hybrids and tankies will just keep on going.

Guardian – Well, always been needed and I suspect whilst this capture point game mode continues it will remain one of the most sought out classes. I have been taking mine for a dps style playing, and its still very fun and viable. It the class built for this game mode if you ask me, most of its specs feature useful builds for pvp, but the bunker will always be wanted.

Middlings

Ranger – I know some love it, but its boring as hell for the most part. Your pet will be doing the work on most builds, or you will just be sitting back taking hits and winning by attrition. No real power build as others have said. Trappers can still find a spot, but honestly they are the souless class to me, nothing strikes me as interesting or unique. kitten warriors with pets.

Engie – Once the missunderstood little kitten , its now pretty good. I think this is a case of the class only just emerging, so in some cases its amazing, others not so much. ALways fun to fight, always a way to learn as them tools do give them lots of options. But like I said, its unknown and somewhat niche role mean its hit or miss for the most mark. Still got some dodgy traits going on that could do with moving about to make decent builds.

Lower

Thief – Ahh my personal class, how the once mighty (untrue really) have fallen. I am glad the burst has been dealt with a little, it was too much and people were right to complain. But, its never really been sorted in the build department. In pvp, you have VERY few options, and almost all of them feature the shortbow. You move around the map the fastest, thats your weapon, and thats all you will be really used for. When playing its little role its king, but outside of that, you either need to be godlike or a warrior will do your job better for half the effort. Almost anything is better than a thief in terms of roles. Sure they have upfront burst damage, but that costs what little survivability we have. You know why thiefs love stealth? its because when you hit us, it really eats into our health. Almost all builds will use stealth, its the only way to help offset that paper thin issue. Thieves need a dedicated line to tank up. You can tie it to more support weapons, I dont think anyone would mind, but some serious alternatives need to be put out there.

Ele – Meh, burst or bunker, you will be team support. I never know what to do with one on my team, they are just there for the most part and dont ask any questions. Although, I do feel like they are the bass guitar in heavy metal music. You never notice it, but if you remove it you can tell the difference. Nice buffs that really help in team fights. I know they used to be very good tanks (personally I preferred them over guardians), but changes to water/healing seem to have stopped that somewhat.

Ok! Basically, this analysis is run on the basis that to create a balanced team, there needs to be: 1) A dedicated Bunker/Support, 2) ‘Three’ High Pressure Damage Carries which are as safe as possible, with a minor in support, and lastly 3) An individual that can pressure far point.

Position 1) Job Description – On point Bunkering, Stomping, and Reviving/Condi Removal/Peeling Support.

Tier S:

• There’s Guardian. There still is no other way to opt out of having a Guardian that both bunkers and supports that I can see.

Tier A & B & C & D In descending order:

• There’s the Warrior’s Bunker & Support. Nails the bunkering, but falls short on allied condi-removal and area denial.
• There’s the Engineer’s Bunker & Support. Adequate in support, but lacks sufficient stability for getting revives/stomps.

Position 2) Job Description – Far Point Interference & Supplemental damage

Tier S:

• There’s the Thief. (Shortbow & D/P or S/P). Thief is king due to the mobility – It’s hands down the most mobile profession that’s capable of contributing in almost every situation, too. Getting a fast decap and ganking mid is almost always better than having someone fight a prolonged fight in order to neutral it, that’s inherently more risky a decision.

Tier A & B & C & D In descending order:

• Knockback focused Engineer (A Combination of Flamethrower, Rifle or Shield, Mines, Elixir X.) Highly successful at decapping, but simply locks the Engineer in an un-ending 1vX, as opposed to simply giving the Engineer’s team an extra man at a teamfight.

• Offensively Portaling Mesmer (Portal). Highly under-utilized – great far point pressure, but this could only be a Mesmer’s side job – it needs to succeed in securing another role before a Thief would not be needed for this.

• Various strong 1v1 builds, that rely on countering anyone watching far point, eventually killing them, and neutraling the point. Highly risky, big time investment. Includes: Soldier’s Amulet Warriors, Berserker Meditation Guardians, Rabid Condi Engies, Soldier Minionmancer Necros, Carrion Spirit Rangers. This strategy is simply out of desperation, at times.

Position 3) Job Description – Teamfight Carry – Sustained Damage with a minor in Team Support

Tier S:

• Warrior (Soldier’s Amulet, typically, Hammer/Longbow). Best set up to win a sustained engagement, by far. Hambow Warriors apply massive pressure while remaining an extremely safe option. (It’s preferably to focus a bunker/support Guardian who has to remain on point, than a Soldier’s Hambow Warrior). A must pick, if a team is looking to maximize their ability to win engagements.

• Spirit Ranger (Carrion Amulet, typically). Extremely good mix of sustained damage, granting reprieves to Guardians by temporarily evasion bunkering, and massive support. Spirit Ranger has taken some nerfs to their sustained damage, but remain a must pick for their support capabilities when considered in the context of the whole package.

Tier A:

• Condition Engineer (Rabid Amulet, Nades/Toolkit, or Nades/Bombs). Extremely high sustained damage, busting bunker Guardians in among the fastest times. Has adequate support through Supply Crate, Healing Turret and Elixir S tosses, Elixir R, or Elixir Gun. Lacks the sheer safety options of other S Tier sustained damage choices. Engineer has remained very focusable, so great positioning and slipperiness are paramount. Condition Engineer is an amazing pick for it’s high sustained damage, with a minor in support.

• Condition Necromancer (Carrion Amulet, Dhuumfire, Terror, Master of Terror) Probably the highest sustained damage and top Bunker busting profession in the game. It’s definitely overpowered in that respect, but that is overcome by bigger weaknesses. The Necromancer offers little in the way of support, and is extremely committed to every fight that it enters. The Necromancer is hard countered by Hambow Warrior trains, because they lack any way to make the pummelling stop, and resume free-casting. Thus, Necros are even more rush-able than the Engineer, and this removes them from the current meta, because they must survive long enough to survive prolonged battles.

Tier B, C, D (In Descending Order)

• Mesmer (Berserker, Shatter, Confounding Suggestions) Pushed out of most group comps because of the lack of staying power to carry teamfights.

• Guardian (Berserker, Meditations) Pushed out of most group comps because of the lack of staying power to carry teamfights.

• Engineer (Berserker, Grenade & Rifle) Simply a more risky option than the Rabid counterpart for a trade-off of sustained damage & survivability, for downed body pressure.

• Elementalist (Berserker, Fresh-Air, Scepter-Dagger) Can be useful in straight up ‘annihilate the enemy’ plays. Pushed out of the meta because of lack of staying power to carry teamfights.

reading some of these posts gave me cancer. i really think anet is better off attending to players who have actually proven themselves through tournaments and ‘well known’ players rather than random jibjabs on the forum.

Jae.5138:

reading some of these posts gave me cancer. i really think anet is better off attending to players who have actually proven themselves through tournaments and ‘well known’ players rather than random jibjabs on the forum.

everyone who played enough games of solo arena or team arena (not me) should have the right to voice out their opinions in this topic.

elitism in the game and in these sPvP forums is one of the factors killing off the sPvP population. them all elitism senior players are scaring away the new comers.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Jae.5138:

reading some of these posts gave me cancer. i really think anet is better off attending to players who have actually proven themselves through tournaments and ‘well known’ players rather than random jibjabs on the forum.

everyone who played enough games of solo arena or team arena (not me) should have the right to voice out their opinions in this topic.

elitism in the game and in these sPvP forums is one of the factors killing off the sPvP population. them all elitism senior players are scaring away the new comers.

Compared to LoL [a hugely successful pvp scene] these forums are a community run by an army of Mother Theresa’s. Elitism has nothing to do with dwindling numbers, people aren’t playing because they aren’t having fun

at the moment; the only thing that does more more confusion damage than a PU mesmer is the third matrix movie.

PU gets more damage from bleeding and torment. AFAIK even a shatter Mesmer would put out more confusion damage because the lazor beam of death from scepter is so obvious to dodge and high priority to cleanse, the clone death trait is what carries the damage