Guild Wars 2

Please don’t misunderstand, I like the PvP in this game a lot. I have been aggravated at things and don’t think it is perfect, but am constantly amazed at the apparent depth and balance that reveals itself as my experience and skill increases.

Just as a mental exercise I wanted to create the most difficult (read: annoying) team comp to deal with. How would you deal with it?

2x max-stealth glass cannon thieves
2x sustain mesmers
1x condition dmg mesmer

All members are asura with names like “Illusionary XXXXX” that vary very slightly from each other.

Any decent premade should be able to hold 2 points from you with ease.. Otherwise its a composition that could stomp the average pub. I say this because stealth doesn’t do anything for you if you’re trying to cap a node. Your best map with this comp would be Kyhlo since you’ll have mass treb control though.

Personally I would replace one of the sustain mesmers with a guard.

Yea, I initially was going to hold one of the mesmer slots as a wildcard, but it just seems to good to be able to move around and assault points while blinking 6 “players” in and out of stealth that could be anywhere between 2 – 5 actual players (remember the mesmer ult is stealth too and much better in coordinated teams than moa).

I actually think Kyhlo would be the one of the worst maps for the build since you could have decent visibility of where all the actual players were as long as you held clocktower, but you are right about the treb management.

It just seems that glass cannon thieves and sustain mesmers work so well together considering all the interupts and control the mesmer has along with their ability to mitigate conditions for thieves with null field. Not to mention the sheer confusion that the two classes can cause, calling targets and rotating would seem to be particularly difficult. I can’t even imagine what you could do with shadow stepping and other thief mobility in combination with the mesmer portals; again, like the rest of this build, that would be particularly difficult to deal with not necessarily the best.

Honestly I really don’t know about the thief builds, it and the warrior are the only two classes I have never played. The mesmer on the other hand is one of my mains.

Feel free to help flesh out the builds =)

2x max-stealth glass cannon thieves
2x sustain mesmers
1x condition dmg mesmer

Easily beatable by 1 max aoe specced ele, 1 condition ranger, 1 brutal guard, 1 necro, and 1 defensive engineer. If well coordinated your sustain mesmers won’t do stuff except doin damage with blurred frenzy or confusion while your thiefs gonna be totally facerolled by the nec and guard

Aelona.8572:

2x max-stealth glass cannon thieves
2x sustain mesmers
1x condition dmg mesmer

Easily beatable by 1 max aoe specced ele, 1 condition ranger, 1 brutal guard, 1 necro, and 1 defensive engineer. If well coordinated your sustain mesmers won’t do stuff except doin damage with blurred frenzy or confusion while your thiefs gonna be totally facerolled by the nec and guard

I’m not sure you fully appreciate what mesmers are capable of in terms of CC and condition mitigation. Most people just know them as really hard to deal with 1v1 in pubs, the do a lot, lot more in tourneys.

I think with the combined stealth of the mesmers and the thieves along with the split second confusion of which player is actually a theif would result in one player from the other team getting bursted down in the opening of each skirmish.

Personally I think the best comp against it would be:
1 max aoe ele (my other main)
2x gaurds
1 defensive engineer
1 glass cannon theif

The above is actually my favorite team build in general if you replace one of the gaurds with a mesmer.

Again, I’m not talking about beating paradigm or matchless with a comp like this, just steamrolling regular tournaments.

Well the average skill level of a tournament is way down there… so you could bring anything and steamroll regular tournaments. It’s a bit difficult to discuss at that rate, because the assumption is someone who goes on the forums is leagues above the general crowd on average. (Although some vocal members on forums are traditionally, very bad)

Is it an optimal composition? No. Would it destroy newbies? Yeah. Will it destroy them anymore then a normal composition would? I’m not so sure. The only reason I think it might do so, is because they might be demoralized before the game even starts. Even if unreasonably so.

A pub stomping composition would probably just be 3 point defenders with 2 offensive roamers. Engi, Ele, and Guardian as point defenders with a Thief and Mesmer as roamers probably. As long as everyone has communication and can win their fights it’s an easy 500 to 0.

Easily.
Any good defensive class, (a good ele, a good engineer) would demolish the thieves.
A good guardian would demolish the mesmers.

If you have that many mesmers, why are you bringing thieves? Thieves are overabundant in hot join, but don’t let that allow you to overestimate their usefulness in tournaments. It looks like you’re trying to build a really lame team, so skip the thieves and double down with bunker guardians. You have plenty of killing power with the mesmers.

report name infraction and period

How about 2 power shortbow and 2 condition shortbow rangers with signet of stone and protect me, focusing down targets with a necro to get rid of any retaliation buffs.

The main problem was already mentioned: you won’t be able to hold nodes, cause of hide and kiting and stuff. You would need to kill your attackers and then recap the node only to have it neutralized shortly after the next attackers come. If the defenders get killed they will have a hard time even neutralizing the node versus a good bunker.

It would get really annoying fighting a teamcomp like this though… but all in all I guess winning is more important than beeing annoying overall^^

Well done guys…

Its almost like, the very thing that people are constantly complaining about being unbalanced and OP in these forums, in reality wouldn’t be very competitive against a well-rounded team.

If mesmers and thieves were so above and beyond the other classes to merit the title “unbalanced”, you’d think that all the top competitive guilds would be running comps similar to the one I stated in the OP. Instead you find very varied and balanced comps that rely much more on player skill and team coordination while ensuring you fill the basic roles of cnd mitigation, CC, and mobility.

I’ve been following the competitive teams since BWE 1 just to see what the high-end PvP would look like, and I have never gotten the impression that thieves or mesmers were too good; thieves are actually under-utilized at present and people are starting to discovering that a really good ele build/play is better at taking and defending trebs than a mesmer (no repair portals though =/). I’ll admit that guardians have always been important, and even I felt they might be a little too strong at what they do, but I have still yet to see a double guard comp at the high-end (that might change once money comes into play).

Its amazing to me how many people are so convinced of the games unforgivable unbalance based on their experiences from 8v8 pub rolls with no coordination in comp, communication, or strategy. It seems like people are just getting to the point that they have graduated from standing still and button-mashing to frantically moving around and button-mashing and so expect it be really good now that they “get the game”.

Hopefully when we get the full complement of “esport-like” PvP tools, it will help to clear up the seemingly large misunderstanding about balance and skill in the game.

Until then, maybe these will help:
Paradigm vs Legacy Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIDjwKgIf4Y&feature=plcp
Paradigm vs Legacy Part 2 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0RcFQk2-us&feature=plcp

I’m not sure you fully appreciate what mesmers are capable of in terms of CC and condition mitigation. Most people just know them as really hard to deal with 1v1 in pubs, the do a lot, lot more in tourneys.

I don’t have a single problem with mesmers, I’m also playin one myself sometimes (I largely prefer to have some fun with the engie actually).

Why am I sayin that, pretty simple : Null field, first of all is a rather large and predictable aoe against predictable way of buffin up / burst.

They are not hard to kill, the most problematic thing a mesmer can put is that spam of confusion if you … get under a feedback assaulted by projectiles or let him attack you with scepter / torch. Just put a hell of a pressure and problem solved, they can’t kill you on their own.

think with the combined stealth of the mesmers and the thieves along with the split second confusion of which player is actually a theif would result in one player from the other team getting bursted down in the opening of each skirmish.

yes, your thieves gonna be ripped apart by the guardian, if not by the engie that gonna have a good laugh. Add a competent necro on top and watch how fast they die, it won’t be a problem, simply be sure to have nobody splitted up.

Personally I think the best comp against it would be:
1 max aoe ele (my other main)
2x gaurds
1 defensive engineer
1 glass cannon theif
The above is actually my favorite team build in general if you replace one of the gaurds with a mesmer.

My fav comp is the one I gave you. It’s actually really hard to do something against that kind of team because of the huge possibilities of direct burst and high condition damage given by nec and ranger, that will be protected by the maxed out AoE ele (dealin incredibly good damage, trust me) and the super defensive engie annoyin the hell out of everyone, and ofc, rez / kinda large possibilities of cross combos (aoe blind, aoe might, fire projectile, aoe poison, and so on)

Saw a lot of posts statin how op ranged classes are, and yet well if you know what to do against with the appropriate build it won’t be a problem. Yeah it’s another picture out of a random hot join, but still it’ll give you an idea :

http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120927041430832456.jpg

It’s not because they have tools that they can’t be killed as fast as another class

denyitbattle.2609:

Well done guys…

Its almost like, the very thing that people are constantly complaining about being unbalanced and OP in these forums, in reality wouldn’t be very competitive against a well-rounded team.

If mesmers and thieves were so above and beyond the other classes to merit the title “unbalanced”, you’d think that all the top competitive guilds would be running comps similar to the one I stated in the OP. Instead you find very varied and balanced comps that rely much more on player skill and team coordination while ensuring you fill the basic roles of cnd mitigation, CC, and mobility.

I’ve been following the competitive teams since BWE 1 just to see what the high-end PvP would look like, and I have never gotten the impression that thieves or mesmers were too good; thieves are actually under-utilized at present and people are starting to discovering that a really good ele build/play is better at taking and defending trebs than a mesmer (no repair portals though =/). I’ll admit that guardians have always been important, and even I felt they might be a little too strong at what they do, but I have still yet to see a double guard comp at the high-end (that might change once money comes into play).

Its amazing to me how many people are so convinced of the games unforgivable unbalance based on their experiences from 8v8 pub rolls with no coordination in comp, communication, or strategy. It seems like people are just getting to the point that they have graduated from standing still and button-mashing to frantically moving around and button-mashing and so expect it be really good now that they “get the game”.

Hopefully when we get the full complement of “esport-like” PvP tools, it will help to clear up the seemingly large misunderstanding about balance and skill in the game.

Until then, maybe these will help:
Paradigm vs Legacy Part 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIDjwKgIf4Y&feature=plcp
Paradigm vs Legacy Part 2 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0RcFQk2-us&feature=plcp

Right now in “high end” pvp, you have to have a guardian no matter what. Lately, at least one mesmer is required for portal, time warp, and null field.

Also, your team needs to have a thief. Shadow refuge is invaluable for rezzing, choking gas is a necessity to stop rezzes, and cluster shot allows for mass aoe and blast combo finisher effects like area retaliation. Thieves can easily insta-gib any squishy in a team fight. Thieves also have the best mobility in the game. Plus thieves have so many evades that even if they have 14k hp and no toughness, they can still tank an entire team for about 10 seconds. No other profession can tank an entire team for that long as glass.

If your team is not running at least two of these three classes, your team is at a disadvantage. That is a problem.

Classes like engi, ele, ranger, and necro don’t have abilities that are so necessary that you have to have the class on your team.

My ideal team would be:
Tanky guardian
Tanky hammer warrior
Glass Mesmer
2x glass thief (1 death blossom, 1 pistol whip)

you dont need any special setup to steam roll every day tournaments. Any group of random 5 guildies on vent will steam roll probably 95% of tournament matches. That is part of the reason most premade players are getting bored and annoyed with the lack of ANet response.

Honestly running an “optimal” premade gets boring very fast unless you happen to hit a string of other guild premades but that is rare, most teams are pugs.

That’s why you sync with good teams.

Payneful.7934:

That’s why you sync with good teams.

The post was asking about steam rolling every day tournaments.