Guild Wars 2

Except for the map one, the other objectives are fine, but requiring people to capture points directly encourages horrible play. It’s common to see two or three people uselessly stacking on a point when they could be going somewhere useful.

its not because of daily, its because they are farming glory in hot joins… and if they do it in tournies, they are just bad… this habit is in game since beta

If you are winning you can do it in tournament. Or if you don’t care about losing(and you rating). Easier there to find points with no enemy there than in an 8 vs. 8 hotzerg.

I don’t do hot join, and I have no problem doing the achievement on my own. That’s not why I made this thread.

The problem is the game is directly encouraging bad play.

This problem is everywhere. I’ve been complaining about it for a long time. Take WvW for example. I don’t play WvW but I hear that it usually is not considered a good thing to repair walls and gates being attacked by a trebuchet but we have the achievement for using supplies(and now you get WXP for repairing) which means all the people will do useless stuff now and use all the supplies to repair.

There are a lot of useless achievements.

Wintersday capture the flag like minigame also made you play for your own achievement and not for the team win.

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

daydream.2938:

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

This!

Yeah just make it you have to zerg for at least 1 hour instead…seems quite nonsense asking to capture points in a point capture game..

/sarcasm off

.there’s no reason to stick on a point with 3 ppl (And every hotjoin hero already did before patch) just go cap something else maybe…

daydream.2938:

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

And this for sure..

daydream.2938:

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

Bad idea. While PvP is teamplay game, ataching any achivement to wining is a bad idea – like daily tournaments now. I need to do things I really don’t like – like hang out with some PvP guild (personal taste – I hate 100% of those I’ve been joined, not my kind of crowd), just because doing tournaments with pug is some kind of sick lottery. And after few days, when the charm fall off, weak daily runers will fall off, wich leaves me with choics – “join pvp guild” or “don’t do daily tournaments”.

Ppl must always play for win, even in hotjoin aka custom arenas..if you want to grind go pve or wvsw..

I agree, capturing points is a very very bad daily. Normally I neutralize a point and if theres no immediate threat around and a teammate is capping, I leave the point to do something useful. The daily punishes this.

There should be an additional daily with “Defend/assault points” imo. Because that’s what I do best.

yea the addition of defend / assault points would be good. i do those through normal play as well. perhaps, it could be capture/defend/assault say.. 15 points? though i feel 10 is enough as well.

Wizzlock.3492:

daydream.2938:

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

Bad idea. While PvP is teamplay game, ataching any achivement to wining is a bad idea – like daily tournaments now. I need to do things I really don’t like – like hang out with some PvP guild (personal taste – I hate 100% of those I’ve been joined, not my kind of crowd), just because doing tournaments with pug is some kind of sick lottery. And after few days, when the charm fall off, weak daily runers will fall off, wich leaves me with choics – “join pvp guild” or “don’t do daily tournaments”.

1 win a day? not hard to achieve even solo quing.

daydream.2938:

Wizzlock.3492:

daydream.2938:

Dailies/glory should be mainly attached to winning, people would play smarter.

Bad idea. While PvP is teamplay game, ataching any achivement to wining is a bad idea – like daily tournaments now. I need to do things I really don’t like – like hang out with some PvP guild (personal taste – I hate 100% of those I’ve been joined, not my kind of crowd), just because doing tournaments with pug is some kind of sick lottery. And after few days, when the charm fall off, weak daily runers will fall off, wich leaves me with choics – “join pvp guild” or “don’t do daily tournaments”.

1 win a day? not hard to achieve even solo quing.

It’s 2 wins :P. And I’m talking about bigger picture. Now we have crowd of players that are used to do daily PvP. Within the week they will realize, that they waste a lot of time and mainly are farmed for points by better PvP players. The best will stay – good isn’t it? That PvP will get another hit of leaving playerbase. The new daily doesn’t encourage peeps to play PvP, their daily routine is. And the routine will get broken as soon, as they’ll do the math – as far as I see, it’s 3rd day and around 25 of my 50 friends who did daily PvP, done the math already. Neat, isn’t it?
We can joke around or tell lies to ourselfs. A lot of PvP playerbase was there just to catch “fast daily”. If you ask me, it’s around 50% or more, but it’s my counting, no proof to that. Since there is no shiny to chase in PvP, better – there is no even shiny related thing (titles aside) You can use outside PvP to get in PvP and “fast daily” was taken from players – You think how many will stay for good?

If it were up to me, glory would be awarded only for winning the game. Nothing for losers, and nothing for "minor objectives" which don’t reflect, promote or help shape competitive play and teamwork.

Demosthene.2195:

If it were up to me, glory would be awarded only for winning the game. Nothing for losers, and nothing for “minor objectives” which don’t reflect, promote or help shape competitive play and teamwork.

I’m asking for this since launch like old good gw1, but you know kids must have fun without effort so is not going to happen…

Unfortunately.

Glory for losing only promotes loser mindset, people instead of getting better get into the mood of "I’ll never get better, I have no chance, I shouldn’t even try ..." ... at the same time, nearly all the fun stuff and cosmetic rewards are primarily a function of time, with winning only making it go faster.

This basically leads to the phenomenon of people spamming matches (expecting to win some of them, instead of giving their best to the one they play at the moment) to get some glory and move that achievement bar a little bit to the right. What adds salt to injury is that they go to PvP version of Mystic Toilet and start parading like some kind of rainbow-dyed peakitten.

The old system from original game was merit-based. Instead of scrapping that legacy altogether, they should’ve made it more beginner-friendly and give veterans more incentive to train people. Promoting passive play doesn’t form a PvP community, because PvP community is built around competition, reputation (competence) and teamwork.

PS. Peakitten? This word filter is disgusting ...

Demosthene.2195:

If it were up to me, glory would be awarded only for winning the game. Nothing for losers, and nothing for “minor objectives” which don’t reflect, promote or help shape competitive play and teamwork.

While I agree with Your logic, that will definitely herd more people into PvP. I see billions of noob, that PvP veterans can train and shape on their own similarity. Yeah. Like that is going to happen.
You need to give “something” to people, or they won’t invest their time into game. You know – small candy, to let the feel how this works.
But still – I agree with logic. The looser/winner reward should be better for winners. And none for AFKers. None at all!

People will do this regardless of daily’s in hotjoins. People want the points on the board and the glory. Winning is not their primary prerogative.

Wizzlock.3492:

Demosthene.2195:

If it were up to me, glory would be awarded only for winning the game. Nothing for losers, and nothing for "minor objectives" which don’t reflect, promote or help shape competitive play and teamwork.

While I agree with Your logic, that will definitely herd more people into PvP. I see billions of noob, that PvP veterans can train and shape on their own similarity. Yeah. Like that is going to happen.
You need to give "something" to people, or they won’t invest their time into game. You know - small candy, to let the feel how this works.
But still - I agree with logic. The looser/winner reward should be better for winners. And none for AFKers. None at all!

Well, at least the recent patch fosters some more community interaction outside running tPvP matches. Yesterday I’ve spectated a hot-join game and inspected Warrior players. At some point I decided to give gear advice to one of them, which later turned into a discussion and whole host of gameplay-related tips. By the end of the day we recruited that player into our guild and rolled a bunch of tournaments together, gaining a new active PvP player for the guild and game’s PvP community alike. Win-Win situation, I’d say. Example has been set, more have to follow if we want a thriving community.

Demosthene.2195:

Wizzlock.3492:

Demosthene.2195:

If it were up to me, glory would be awarded only for winning the game. Nothing for losers, and nothing for “minor objectives” which don’t reflect, promote or help shape competitive play and teamwork.

While I agree with Your logic, that will definitely herd more people into PvP. I see billions of noob, that PvP veterans can train and shape on their own similarity. Yeah. Like that is going to happen.
You need to give “something” to people, or they won’t invest their time into game. You know – small candy, to let the feel how this works.
But still – I agree with logic. The looser/winner reward should be better for winners. And none for AFKers. None at all!

Well, at least the recent patch fosters some more community interaction outside running tPvP matches. Yesterday I’ve spectated a hot-join game and inspected Warrior players. At some point I decided to give gear advice to one of them, which later turned into a discussion and whole host of gameplay-related tips. By the end of the day we recruited that player into our guild and rolled a bunch of tournaments together, gaining a new active PvP player for the guild and game’s PvP community alike. Win-Win situation, I’d say. Example has been set, more have to follow if we want a thriving community.

Well, at least the recent patch fosters some more community interaction outside running tPvP matches. Yesterday I’ve spectated a hot-join game and inspected Warrior players. At some point I decided to give gear advice to one of them, which later turned into a discussion and whole host of gameplay-related tips. By the end of the day we recruited that player into our guild and rolled a bunch of tournaments together, gaining a new active PvP player for the guild and game’s PvP community alike. Win-Win situation, I’d say. Example has been set, more have to follow if we want a thriving community.[/quote]

I don’t say situations like this doesn’t happen, because we both know they do. The problem is that changes like this push away players who don’t aim in elitism and while it can be great to all player that love their elitism, it’s damaging whole game in long run.
Today I did my tournaments in 2 games, with pug – that’s great. We even had r10 guy in our ranks – great. But the other team was made by r2-r18 guys. And I can bet 4 of 5 won’t be back for more.
Same with WvW – 2h to get repairs daily achivement, wich can be translated into PvP 5 guys retaking one point. I understand what You mean, but still. Anet is trying to get more players into PvP – at least that is what I understood from different sources. But they make changes into daily, that favors zerging, using non tactic at all and playing badly. Do You really think that is what people like? Peeps magnet? I know that You can do whole daily 10 times faster if You are actually good in this – thats the top line, but bottom one is that, players won’t get to that lvl of skills, because daily grind fest build a wall between what they do and what they should/can do. It’s like moving factory to china. We’re going big, numbers gonna roll. Quantity over quality. So we have more achievements to do every day and a lot less to search for in PvP.
If PvP is Your main (or even only) thing GW2 – that update doesn’t change much for You. If PvP is one of things You do in game (or God forbid – minor activity), change is dramatically bad. And to take into account that some strange people have something called “life”. Well – if someone have life, why do s/he even play?!
It’s as I see it. Instead having friendly startup for community, we have this sick elitist attitude – “if You can’t be best, don’t try at all!”

Dailies are a whole different topic. I hated PvE dailies since game’s launched, later I got tired even of PvE monthlies. I don’t do any of them, but I still play PvE for the sake of companionship and camaraderie with a friend, so it’s fine.

One smart thing they did was giving laurels in pvp dailies, understanding people have different priorities and can play two or three different things at a time, and that dailies basically cut their already limited time for each activity.

Current hot-join daily is matter of spamming hot-join matches, because that’s easiest, almost painless and in general player’s comfort zone. Problem is, it’s no longer a 15-minute activity like it used to, and as you said, it still promotes bad play by stacking a point.

At the same time, if it was awarded for wins in hot-join matches, people would say their effort goes to waste and daily is elitist, because participation alone is not enough to complete it.

If you’re asking me, I wouldn’t have introduced dailies and monthlies to this game at all. Instead, as a developer, I’d rather people didn’t clutter up unnecessary bandwidth, and only played when, how and what they want - meaning, no compulsive-obsessive behaviour to log daily and do your daily, among many things. But that is getting us slightly offtopic.

Personally I treat PvP as a form of "sport" that is goal-oriented and merit-based, and believe that people on all levels should adapt a correct attitude and see defeat as opportunity, not punishment. It’s slightly baffling how people get defensive when someone suggest getting chest for not running or failing a dungeon, but get up in arms and give popular support to whoever says PvP is elitist because it rewards winners. Winner’s victory is his own, it’s not your punishment.

More often than not, your sole source of defeat is your inner conviction of not making a difference, not making progress and having no chance to go at it ... all the while competent players, even in the name of sportmanship, learn to spot their own and enemy errors, to improve upon own faults and kindly remind their enemy they won’t win if they don’t want to. So the question is, do you want to win?

Demosthene.2195:

Dailies are a whole different topic. I hated PvE dailies since game’s launched, later I got tired even of PvE monthlies. I don’t do any of them, but I still play PvE for the sake of companionship and camaraderie with a friend, so it’s fine.

One smart thing they did was giving laurels in pvp dailies, understanding people have different priorities and can play two or three different things at a time, and that dailies basically cut their already limited time for each activity.

Current hot-join daily is matter of spamming hot-join matches, because that’s easiest, almost painless and in general player’s comfort zone. Problem is, it’s no longer a 15-minute activity like it used to, and as you said, it still promotes bad play by stacking a point.

At the same time, if it was awarded for wins in hot-join matches, people would say their effort goes to waste and daily is elitist, because participation alone is not enough to complete it.

If you’re asking me, I wouldn’t have introduced dailies and monthlies to this game at all. Instead, as a developer, I’d rather people didn’t clutter up unnecessary bandwidth, and only played when, how and what they want – meaning, no compulsive-obsessive behaviour to log daily and do your daily, among many things. But that is getting us slightly offtopic.

Personally I treat PvP as a form of “sport” that is goal-oriented and merit-based, and believe that people on all levels should adapt a correct attitude and see defeat as opportunity, not punishment. It’s slightly baffling how people get defensive when someone suggest getting chest for not running or failing a dungeon, but get up in arms and give popular support to whoever says PvP is elitist because it rewards winners. Winner’s victory is his own, it’s not your punishment.

More often than not, your sole source of defeat is your inner conviction of not making a difference, not making progress and having no chance to go at it … all the while competent players, even in the name of sportmanship, learn to spot their own and enemy errors, to improve upon own faults and kindly remind their enemy they won’t win if they don’t want to. So the question is, do you want to win?

My answer will be – no. I want to have good time. So in matter of speaking, yeah I want to win, but not match. I don’t think that winning/loosing game is binar with my feeling of fun. In matter of fact, whole daily till 2 days ago was just the marker, where to go and what to do to seek fun. That’s why I think it was way better that this one now. Few kills in 3 matches, some points to get – it gave me a lot of freedom that I can use however I wanned. Now I feel boundaries of my free time. For the first time since release of GW2 I see I can’t get all I want, no matter how good I am, or how hard I gonna try. It’s not like something is too hard, because this 2 tournament wins are matter of time, good team and a lil bit of lottery. Same with capture points – but now I don’t do it because it’s fun… I do it because I want to have it done before I need to go to work and I know later in the day, after work I won’t have time, because I will play with friends. The time is factor – it’s like spending it with beautiful girl. Sometimes more time is better, the challenge rise and everything is great. And sometimes You meet girl with personality so annoying that You can’t appreciate more than 15 minutes with her. GW2 PvP is for me the latter. The girl have her beauty and I want to enjoy it. But to spend hour with her? No way! And I’m sure she doesn’t appreciate my charm and old jokes for more than 30 minutes either.

Rewarding glory only on a win would be idiotic and would cause people to stop playing and go AFK the instant the other team gets a good lead. That, and it would turn PvP tourneys into an incredibly hostile environment where people mostly insult each other for their lack of skills.

To fix the dailies just remove the capture requirement, change daily tournament wins to daily tournament plays and add a requirement that involves getting X amount of glory. It’s not perfect but it makes more sense than the current format.

They need to find a way to give people credit for clearing a node without requiring all of them to all sit on it for 10 seconds or so

Nye, I noticed some hotjoinheroes duo/triple capping close at the beginning…

butch.8136:

Nye, I noticed some hotjoinheroes duo/triple capping close at the beginning…

Yup. This is so annoying.

Dromologist.7980:

Rewarding glory only on a win would be idiotic and would cause people to stop playing and go AFK the instant the other team gets a good lead. That, and it would turn PvP tourneys into an incredibly hostile environment where people mostly insult each other for their lack of skills.

To fix the dailies just remove the capture requirement, change daily tournament wins to daily tournament plays and add a requirement that involves getting X amount of glory. It’s not perfect but it makes more sense than the current format.

In which case I suppose people fighting to the bitter end and turning the game at last moment has just been an illusion for me, across many other games, including the original Guild Wars. I will not convince anyone here who hasn’t experienced win-based reward system himself. If people expect to have a good time but don’t actively try to win, they shouldn’t try their hand at PvP. Any PvP. PvP is a team environment, it’s not designed for your bragging rights or self-appraisal. Giving your best is respect to the people you play with, and to the people you play against by giving them a great game. That is all I have to say on this matter.

Demosthene.2195:

Dromologist.7980:

Rewarding glory only on a win would be idiotic and would cause people to stop playing and go AFK the instant the other team gets a good lead. That, and it would turn PvP tourneys into an incredibly hostile environment where people mostly insult each other for their lack of skills.

To fix the dailies just remove the capture requirement, change daily tournament wins to daily tournament plays and add a requirement that involves getting X amount of glory. It’s not perfect but it makes more sense than the current format.

In which case I suppose people fighting to the bitter end and turning the game at last moment has just been an illusion for me, across many other games, including the original Guild Wars. I will not convince anyone here who hasn’t experienced win-based reward system himself. If people expect to have a good time but don’t actively try to win, they shouldn’t try their hand at PvP. Any PvP. PvP is a team environment, it’s not designed for your bragging rights or self-appraisal. Giving your best is respect to the people you play with, and to the people you play against by giving them a great game. That is all I have to say on this matter.

While I agree, it won’t work from different reasons. GW2 PvP is not in such great shape, like rest of the game (not that GW2 don’t need a lot of fixing) – community is rather small from what I expected. Setting tPvP on wining is a good thing – people join to fight, fight to win, till the bitter end as You said. But from people in tournaments, that is expected.
Hotjoins are tailored to be casual and noob friendly environment (not that it is, with todays zergfest) – if You set the bar to winnings and winnings only, frustration lvl will spike to the roof. Hotjoin should be the place where kitten comes, learn and is shaped before he tries tPvP. So other tPvP players (especially PUGs) won’t need to frustrate about braindead zerger in serious match. If You take that from hotjoin, You can erase them at the same moment – why waste time on hotjoins, when reward in tPvP is better? And that will only scare more weak/mediocre players from PvP as a whole. And it’s a last thing we want in PvP in my opinion. Many elitist players don’t get it, but if You stay only in small circle of best players – game become dull and boring. Yeah – “it’s so great, we kicked all the noobs from our backyard, but why no one wants to play with me?!” attitude. So the daily need to be set low, hotjoin need to be friendly, to lure fresh players – if they come, maybe they’ll like it and stay. Both daily and hotjoin needs to be taken in opposite direction.

Make people get the credit even if they only touch the node that’s being captured. Maybe then they’ll not stand around with 3 capping a node.

I can’t say for myself that the daily capture requirement has made me a worse sPvPer. Protecting nodes my team already has (if we own two) is more important to me than trying to capture the third – unless I’m absolutely sure that I can do it without harming my team, or because the enemy side is assaulting one of our nodes and hitting theirs would reaaaally put the hurt on them.

There’s nothing worse than trying to capture one point, just to lose the only one you actually had.

It takes me 3-5 matches to complete my daily captures now. Not a big problem since I only play in hot-join sPvP, but it definitely adds more games to my playtime when I’d rather not spend too long on my computer (since it’s suffering from hardware issues I can’t fix at this time).

I agree with the poster above. Anyone who has stood in a node to help capture it for at least one tick (past neutral and into their team’s colour) ought to get credit for the capture even if they leave the node. Or speed up the capture process when there’s more than one player sitting in it.

Keyce.8137:

Or speed up the capture process when there’s more than one player sitting in it.

I don’t think it’s a good idea, but definitely need some testing. Whole concept would force more zergy attitude in PvP and we don’t want that. On the other hand – with better teams made by people who actually know what they are doing, it would be nice dilemma – help to take one point faster, or go and start securing another, slowly capping two.

At least if you need 2 or 3 people to kill some defender you would be able to win some time by being able to faster capture the point afterwards.

Luthan.5236:

At least if you need 2 or 3 people to kill some defender you would be able to win some time by being able to faster capture the point afterwards.

Yeah, but after killing, while capping (even if it would be faster) those additional people would waste time, while they’re needed elsewhere. If the faster taking points would be a fact – then still I would say overcaping one point by zerg is a stupid idea and teaching players bad habits. But no quantity of gamers will speed up capture now, so heh – what were they thinking?
If enemies are dead, place is secure, there is no need to stay there. If place is not secure, players will stay and make it so – regardless of how fast is the caping. Changing the speed of capturing will again force on smarter players to choose bunker builds, to justify their presence there. Well – that would be fun. Zergs of bunkers roaming the place… while standing in place. Epic conclusion to dynamic PvP.

I don’t see what is so hard about seeking out points to cap, even as a zerg in hotjoin, because the objective of the game is to cap points.

1) seek points, find players to kill.
2) kill players, achieve objectives.
3) repeat four times, collect laurel.

if step two is problematic, you need to play more to improve your game.

the daily is about grinding, not complex tactics. the entire point is to make the objectives easy to achieve…and they are.

nakoda.4213:

I don’t see what is so hard about seeking out points to cap, even as a zerg in hotjoin, because the objective of the game is to cap points.

1) seek points, find players to kill.
2) kill players, achieve objectives.
3) repeat four times, collect laurel.

if step two is problematic, you need to play more to improve your game.

the daily is about grinding, not complex tactics. the entire point is to make the objectives easy to achieve…and they are.

Disagree. Hotjoin become place to zerg, but it suposed to be preparation for tournaments, playground to learn and improve skills.
And no – new daily isn’t hard, it’s just tedious. It’s hard to improve, when You’re forced to dumb down Your play style in name of effectiveness. And again – disagree, “play more to improve your game” is a good advice if something is hard to achieve, not to do daily chores. It more like, play more to check it out from your list.
And at the end – daily is, but shouldn’t be about grinding. As far as Anet stated – it’s just guidelines of what to do and where to go. I didn’t heard they’ve changed they policy, therefore I say there’s hole in the daily. It’s chore list not guidelines anymore.

laurels are about grinding, this is not a subjective opinion. they are currency for daily grind rewards.

pursuing the daily objectives, as such, is entirely about running the grind stone like a hamster.

if your goal is unrequited self improvement for tourneys, then I recommend solo-q or custom arenas with 5 player team limits. but keep in mind that tourney play improvement is not the same as grinding for gear.

tedious?

go make a legendary.

I think they should change it to “Defend points” that would push people to actually play the game and fight on the points.

Why? I need another legendary? XD Just joking, still I’m some mats shorts to finish my twilight
And that’s exactly my point! Daily become grinding and if You are serious PvPer blah blah blah. If You are really serious about PvP, You don’t care about daily. Except for 4 maps, You’ll do everything on the way in tPvP, not even noticing. On days like today, when I spend time with my friend on tournaments, I did daily requirements dozen of times. This yet become problem for players who play as Anet design game – some PvP, a bit of PvE, jump to WvW to help Your server. You know, the whole deal. It’s great with daily guidelines, but horror with daily chores. So it’s “great” design when You stretch the lowest achiever rank, to time sink of such efficiency that most of causal daily players sign off. Monthly is for longer, more extensive grind which makes sense. And what is funny – this and last month PvP monthly is some kind of joke (I actually don’t remember what was before XD). You can do it in first day and wait another 3 for daily counter part. I can’t understand daily grinding the same way, I can’t understand lack of any grind to make monthly. If the daily would be design in monthly fasion, we would have 1 game to play, on half of map, with 2 enemies seen, with one node in sight distance that have been captured. It should be other way around.

not at all. the old daily was able to be finished in one map, the tedious part was then playing two more to completion when you could care less about the outcome.

if you are already just finishing your daily “along the way” then there is even less of a problem, because (imo) dailies ought to be earned for just playing.

the new pvp daily does a good job of approximating this, and, in time, I wouldn’t be surprised if they add more objectives like assault and defend like they did with pve dailies.

nakoda.4213:

not at all. the old daily was able to be finished in one map, the tedious part was then playing two more to completion when you could care less about the outcome.

if you are already just finishing your daily “along the way” then there is even less of a problem, because (imo) dailies ought to be earned for just playing.

the new pvp daily does a good job of approximating this, and, in time, I wouldn’t be surprised if they add more objectives like assault and defend like they did with pve dailies.

You’re missing the point. Daily should encourage players to taste new tastes, eat new food, kill new friends. If someone like me, have almost everything that matters in PvE (all jumping puzzles, dungs, legendary almost done, yadda yadda yadda), PvP daily should be the little magnet to take me to PvP world. And it was – till now. It was fun to play those fast 3 matches, jump on tournament from time to time to make monthly and that was it. And I was more into it every day and every month. First I hated PvP (I was helping friend, who ironically left GW2 for good), then I come to peace with it, and last month I stayed for many hours in tPvP, just for fun. Now PvP daily takes too much time for me to even care. Actually tomorrow will be the last day I’ll play PvP – one of reasons I sound so kitten. I need to get back to fulltime work later and spending more than hour on brainded zerging that brings me no fun is big no-no for me. Previous daily was fun, and short. You do everything along the way, while still playing real matches. Yep – zerging was present, overcaping was there, but now it’s magnified. I’m yet to see hotjoin match that is not 100% one side dominating zergfest and I really don’t find +-60 minutes of runing with peeps and taging stuff funny. Look how it narrows down viable builds. Almost all good tPvP builds are useless, because You’re there to cap with zerg and to kill with zerg. If You don’t want to spend day on PvP, that’s why You are there. Daily is cap and killing, and You need to be efficient to kill 20 guys in 4 matches and cap 10 nodes while doing it. It’s possible, sure – done it easy, but only if You go on full zerg mode. What is fun in that? If I want to turn into zerg creature, I’ll go on techno party. I’m here to play PvP, not some striped dumbed down version of WvW cosplay, done by 5 people pretending to be 300 spartans. So I still put up with my thoughts – new daily changes nothing to PvP fans – no new, better reward, no new cool mechanics, nothing to improve their lifestyle. But it destroy fun from small chunks of PvP for those, who are just visiting.
And sad fact is, that tommorow, my probably last PvP ever in GW2 will be boring, grindy zergfest, that will burn in my memory as a picture for whole PvP in this game. I still gona play GW2 PvE for fun with friends, but PvP? There are more friendly titles out there, I’ll choose one on Tuesday XD,

The solution is pretty simple really, make it like PvE events – if you participate in the process of capturing a contested point and it gets captured let’s say in 20 seconds since you last been there – you get the credit regardless of you being there or not when it flipped.

20 seconds rule is just to make sure people actually fight on that point and not just “tag” it and run along leaving others to give them candies.

That should be good, really.

no, I am not missing the point; i disagree with it.

the boil down is that the new daily takes you too long, and you don’t like it, and so you complain that the new dailies promote poor gameplay as a veiled disguise of your complaint.

At the end of the day, it takes one (1) extra map to complete your daily.

Open the achievement tab, there are now six or seven daily tasks you can complete, only 4 of which you need:

- 20 kills
- 10 caps
- 1 top stat
- 4 games played
- 4 unique maps visited
- 2 tourney wins

and like I said, don’t be surprised if/when they add more objectives to the list.

Forcing players, at this stage, to cap points encourages the one thing people seem (to me) to mewl the most about: fight on the kitten point. you need to be*on* the point to cap it, and you develop habits focused around staying on the point.

not everyone who plays pvp cares about tourneys, and you cannot exude them; as such, forcing them to be on the point to cap it, at the least, puts the pve pug stars on the point where you need them to be.

let them soak up the aoe damage, let them be trebuchete and cannon fodder. use them to your advantage, play intelligently. try actually competing all the daily objectives in a single match, it takes coordination and skill.

it is certainly unfortunate if someone is so put off by this change that their entire play schedule is thrown off… first world problems can be tragic.

@nakoda
What I’ll say would be “funny”, but guess what – you’re missing the point.
“the boil down is that the new daily takes you too long, and you don’t like it” – now, it’s the bottom line. Yeah, I won’t have enough time for GW2 PvP, but that is not the case, that is not where my feelings come from. I won’t have enough time, because team behind PvP made it unworthy of my time. You think I wouldn’t squeeze another 30-40 minutes to play PvP if I really want to? I agree with balance (thou nerf hammer hit hard two of 3 my favorite PvP class), I don’t agree in changing daily into chore.
How many times I have to write, what I mean? I know that You don’t agree, I understood that soon enough. Just give me reason why. What You write is something like “You’re wrong, because new daily doesn’t bother me”. I wrote why it don’t work for me, and had no reasonable answer (whatever You wrote fall down below :P).
So once again – I’m refering to my own experience – which is, that new daily changed hotjoin from a lil zergy competition match into zergfest. That have nothing to do with time I got, or time I won’t have, because hey – it’s not time related and it’s not personally tied to me…
It’s like me saying that sticking about “time I can spare on this game” is “your poor disguise” to not having any valid point to say. You want example?
“Forcing players, at this stage, to cap points encourages the one thing people seem (to me) to mewl the most about: fight on the kitten point. you need to be*on* the point to cap it, and you develop habits focused around staying on the point.” – and again – how many nodes You have to cap, to understand the rule? None? Half? One? Yet, daily force You to take 10 every day. As I said before – this force players to take points over and over again. One should be enough to understand. To make it valid achievement make it 3-5, but 10 is overkill without any agenda behind it. And it’s daily – day by day basis. If I should take your course of thinking, I should be offended, that Anet is treating my like worst idiot, who can’t understand simple rules of game in months. And it’s not that players will take those nodes and move on in PvP activity. I’ve spend hours in PvP today – You’ve got flood of new players, doing same thins over and over again (hotjoin and tPvP alike). If You want to compare it to something? Great! Evading in PvE – doing dodge in PvE teaches You how to evade, how to manage your energy, when to evade etc. It’s useful knowledge when You do it right and even more usefull when You waste your dodge. Now back to taking nodes – You take one – did You learn something? Yeah, to take node. You take another – anything? No. Another, another 3, and 5 – anything? No. Taking 10th node – anything? Yeah, that You’re wasting time. If you like PvP, You’ll say, You waste time You could spend on helping Your team win elswhere. If not – You just wasted time. What did You learn? That You wasted time. Will You do it again? Sure, it’s daily requirement!
Another example?

“not everyone who plays pvp cares about tourneys, and you cannot exude them; as such, forcing them to be on the point to cap it, at the least, puts the pve pug stars on the point where you need them to be. " – that’s my point and You’ve misread it. Having 4 PvEers on one node is not having them “where you need them to be” – it’s teaching them bad habits… or You referring to them as enemy, who want them to waste time and be easy target? One is needed on the node (in tournament nutshell), preferably bunker who will stay there and keep it safe. If someone don’t care for tourneys, why he goes and play them (badly)? Because PvP daily lead him there. Does daily want him to play good? No – only to win. Does daily push him into any direction that will help him win tournament? If by wasting time on overcaping and trying to kill everything that moves, then hell yeah -_-’ . That’s why I don’t want to exclude them, which means that excluding means something very different for both of us. And I like tPvP, but I don’t care much about them – I’m in both groups You’ve mentioned.
And again
“let them soak up the aoe damage, let them be trebuchete and cannon fodder. use them to your advantage, play intelligently. try actually competing all the daily objectives in a single match, it takes coordination and skill.” – You really think they don’t know that? They’ve come from PvE. There are dozen of simmilar mechanics, just better executed there. As a PvE player I feel offended – because PvP team doeas really poor job compared to PvE team. The thing that PvEer need, is to learn how they can use their knowledge in PvP. Do You suggest that zerging is only logical option? Because what You’re saying is beautiful, romantic vision that have no reflection on what’s happening. You say about leading them, using them… seriously? 20 kills, 10 nodes / 4 matches = zerg. What trebuchete? Only cannon fodder. That is most effective, that is only thing needed by this daily. I agree – I want them to be trebuchete, I want them to incorporate PvP build and tactics – that’s why I’m against forcing them to stand on one kitten node. You really think, that teaching players to do what is going to make them bad PvP players, is first thing they need to know in PvP? Is that fun? Turn PvP newcomers into sacrificial sheeps? Yeah, so much fun there, we love our elitism, don’t we? And did You tried to teach anyone anything there in PvP? They come here for they daily. They can play smart if You need them to, but why? Daily specifically ask for 10 captures and 20 nodes. Nothing more and nothing less – and that is taking us on far road from “smart”.

And yet, I agree “it is certainly unfortunate if someone is so put off by this change that their entire play schedule is thrown off… first world problems can be tragic”. Only first world problems are tragic, rest is nuance. I don’t have any big first world problems on my head (and I’m grateful for that), I just was informed that I’m wasting my time here. As I said before – new daily ask more from players and yet give them less (same reward for more work is mathematically less) and that include less fun from gameplay. While I don’t play for reward, I play for fun… this simply shows the way of PvP changes. I don’t find fun in running with zerg and certainly I don’t find fun in fighting with zerg.
I admit, I again need to agree – probably Anet will add more dailies like this. That just prove my point. They go into elitism and, at the same time, whine that PvP playerbase is melting (not vocaly, but same thing happened in GW1 before). It makes me “curious” – how can it be? Oh, how can it be? ;P

Couldn’t agree more with OP. It was moderately annoying before, but now with 10 required captures, it’s one of the final objectives of my daily. I have to force myself not to actually defend a point, instead I run around mindlessly capturing, sometimes with 4-5 people. How about a defend objective or dropping capture as a daily objective?

Wizzlock.3492:

Demosthene.2195:

Dromologist.7980:

Rewarding glory only on a win would be idiotic and would cause people to stop playing and go AFK the instant the other team gets a good lead. That, and it would turn PvP tourneys into an incredibly hostile environment where people mostly insult each other for their lack of skills.

To fix the dailies just remove the capture requirement, change daily tournament wins to daily tournament plays and add a requirement that involves getting X amount of glory. It’s not perfect but it makes more sense than the current format.

In which case I suppose people fighting to the bitter end and turning the game at last moment has just been an illusion for me, across many other games, including the original Guild Wars. I will not convince anyone here who hasn’t experienced win-based reward system himself. If people expect to have a good time but don’t actively try to win, they shouldn’t try their hand at PvP. Any PvP. PvP is a team environment, it’s not designed for your bragging rights or self-appraisal. Giving your best is respect to the people you play with, and to the people you play against by giving them a great game. That is all I have to say on this matter.

While I agree, it won’t work from different reasons. GW2 PvP is not in such great shape, like rest of the game (not that GW2 don’t need a lot of fixing) – community is rather small from what I expected. Setting tPvP on wining is a good thing – people join to fight, fight to win, till the bitter end as You said. But from people in tournaments, that is expected.
Hotjoins are tailored to be casual and noob friendly environment (not that it is, with todays zergfest) – if You set the bar to winnings and winnings only, frustration lvl will spike to the roof. Hotjoin should be the place where kitten comes, learn and is shaped before he tries tPvP. So other tPvP players (especially PUGs) won’t need to frustrate about braindead zerger in serious match. If You take that from hotjoin, You can erase them at the same moment – why waste time on hotjoins, when reward in tPvP is better? And that will only scare more weak/mediocre players from PvP as a whole. And it’s a last thing we want in PvP in my opinion. Many elitist players don’t get it, but if You stay only in small circle of best players – game become dull and boring. Yeah – “it’s so great, we kicked all the noobs from our backyard, but why no one wants to play with me?!” attitude. So the daily need to be set low, hotjoin need to be friendly, to lure fresh players – if they come, maybe they’ll like it and stay. Both daily and hotjoin needs to be taken in opposite direction.

The problem with hot join atm is that most players find their comfort zone in 8v8 AoE zergfest, which doesn’t prepare them for any tournament play, gives completely distorted view on class balance and key gameplay concepts to the conquest style of maps.

If standard hot-join maps were only 5v5 and greater tutorial/intro emphasis was put on capturing, holding & neutralising points as well as secondary mechanics, we’d be all in a better place now. Beginners would play the game correctly from the get-go in hot-joins, but not feel so punished for defeat as in tournaments (since a greater chunk of their glory would come from points system than victory itself). If they wanted it like that they could either stay to gain more confidence, or jump to tPvP next.

Problem with tPvP matchmaking is that it would be vastly more beginner-friendly, if more beginners played for the matchmaking algorithm to work properly. Currently tPvP environment might appear as hostile (especially to solo queue people), because not enough people play it, so you get matched against who’s available at that minute based on “closest” match, rather than get a comparable opponent. At the same time, if solo was split from premade, already thin population would be even more fragmented, leading to domination of premades by few select teams making average premades quit.

Different goals that would make tPvP better for everyone involved, often contradict themselves in actual execution. We won’t get more people without necessary changes. At the same time necessary changes require even greater core population of tPvP players to cancel out their side effects. If changes are made without necessary population, population will collapse instead of flourishing, starting with rampant elitism and subsequent death of premade queue, to further marginalisation of tournaments as a game mode.

Demosthene.2195:

The problem with hot join atm is that most players find their comfort zone in 8v8 AoE zergfest, which doesn’t prepare them for any tournament play, gives completely distorted view on class balance and key gameplay concepts to the conquest style of maps.

Exactly. 10 node caps and 20 kills almost push people into this direction. Imagine – You’re new. You need 20 kills. Do You go to play 5on5 (or even 1on1) to match Your still non existing skills against “veteran players” (no pun intended) or You go to much more crowded place, to have a chance to catch some kills on the flight? At the moment You don’t think about sharpening own skills, just daily. Looking on how hotjoins work now – it’s just that. You’re either with winning zerg, or You change map. No need to waste precious time. And by loosing people can learn a lot. What to avoid, why multicaping is stupid etc. – You won’t learn it by leaving loosing side.

Demosthene.2195:

If standard hot-join maps were only 5v5 and greater tutorial/intro emphasis was put on capturing, holding & neutralising points as well as secondary mechanics, we’d be all in a better place now. Beginners would play the game correctly from the get-go in hot-joins, but not feel so punished for defeat as in tournaments (since a greater chunk of their glory would come from points system than victory itself). If they wanted it like that they could either stay to gain more confidence, or jump to tPvP next.

Bravo. My thoughts exactly. I need to learn English better, because I can’t write so clearly. XD

Demosthene.2195:

At the same time, if solo was split from premade, already thin population would be even more fragmented, leading to domination of premades by few select teams making average premades quit.

True, didn’t think about that much. Still – it’s a risk. You split solo and premade and You split population. You leave it like it is now – You’re melting population (weakest players scared of by overwhelming differences). Can’t say which one is better – they never should have allow this situation to happen. They had many indications of what is going on, to see it. Heck – even players saw it along the way, and by observation, because we don’t have and means of measuring condition of PvP playerbase.

Demosthene.2195:

Different goals that would make tPvP better for everyone involved, often contradict themselves in actual execution. We won’t get more people without necessary changes. At the same time necessary changes require even greater core population of tPvP players to cancel out their side effects. If changes are made without necessary population, population will collapse instead of flourishing, starting with rampant elitism and subsequent death of premade queue, to further marginalisation of tournaments as a game mode.

Which is exactly what I see now. New daily is a step into elitism. It doesn’t change PvPers life, doesn’t improve it in any way. No new mechanics, no new rewards, no shinies to chase, no dramatic changes. So why to change daily? To grow population of course! But how does the daily that demands more time from players, without offering them anything new (or valuable) is spoused to to that? It’s building the wall between those who don’t care (because of elitism) and those who won’t care anymore. Higher the fence, harder is to make the jump. Monthly achievement is so lowered, that is actually not funny anymore – and that should be the carrot to chase, isn’t it? Instead making something fun with monthly, daily is being changed into chores. Great tactic. I want to meet this Napoleon who stands behind it someday, I want an autograph XD

The whole spvp as a gametype encourages poor gameplay. Rather than actually trying to win the matches, most players would rather roflstomp everything running a mindless blob, as it generally nets more Glory than actually playing the game as intended.

What anet should do, is to remove ‘play 4 matches’ from the Dailies and replace it with ‘win 3-4 matches’. Then maybe, just maybe, people would strive to win and play efficiently rather than go for their personal Glory hunt all the time.

@ Wizzlock

This is why I suggested earlier to just award dailies for wins. Win 5 hot-joins, or win 3 tournaments. No side objectives for the daily. Then, make all standard hot-join matches 5v5 by default, to mirror the tournament play. Perhaps rework the glory merit system, so it’s more in line with doing things for the team, rather than things harming the team in search for personal glory score.

Example change: skirmishing around (close to) the point, not necessarily sitting on it, will award points for its capture, if its captured during 20 seconds after you leave it’s vicinity (you helped bunker cap or hold the point, he gets the point back and you get your glory points for your contribution while you’re away and roaming).

Another thing they could do to glory system, is multiply your personal glory score for the match by 1.5x-2x, if the match is won. That way, even if maximising personal score is not in line with winning, winning the match will still net you more glory overall despite technically lower score.

Similarly, the "top stats" requirement could be done away with, so people don’t frantically look for blood or stick to points just to get top stats in a single category. At some point people would jump to a logical conclusion, that mirroring the tPvP tactics will win them the match, most glory and net a daily requirement.

Were these changes made, the only difference between standard hot-joins and tPvP would be tournament reward chests and ranked leaderboards for the latter, enticing more confident hot-join players to try their hand at tPvP, since it’s not a completely different game mode, but something they’ve already learned the basics of.

Counter arguments: "hot-join" games currently are just that, join and leave when you like without consequences. To make all of these suggestions stick, matchmaking might need some changes, such as you can’t join the winning team on equal player numbers, or can’t join mid-match for easy victory.

The "hunt for already won games" might be impossible to take care of, and multiple daily objectives were partly introduced to force people into actually playing, not just dropping into an already won game. In addition to all this, many would be angered by no longer being able to join or leave at will without consequences, at any point during the match.

As you can see, most solutions are complex and not without their own flaws.