Guild Wars 2

So anet dosent want certian classes to be tanky and deal dmg, but now any class that specs for condi can tank AND deal dmg. Sure you can pack lots of condi removal but condis can be easily rethrown and since you are a tank it is very easy to throw condis and kite. Which is why the condi kite meta is so strong right now. Does anyone see a way to balance condis? Because a necros sig of spite with some auto atks is GG most the time. Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow. Or the warrior which we all know already and then we haz the thief and engi.

What if healing is reduced in condi builds while keeping vit/toughness? Because there is lots of healing thrown in condi builds. All of the classes that spec for condi have massive heal gens.

Where as power builds dont have that kind of healing as you would go for tanky ness with power and not have room for healing. The amount of healing on condi builds can get pretty ridiculous.

What are your guys thoughts on healing condi tanks balance state?

The hell is an ele condi burst?
Yeah it sucks. The worst is a condi s/s longbow warrior with banner regen + heal sig + adrenal health. 3k armor and what around 22k hp I’m guessing. Such a bullkitten build. At least I have a chance against a condimancer.
Strong regen with a lot of condition pressure shouldnt be possible. Its the absolute worst thing to go up against. I hate it.

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

wut

Pin Down can deal 7k damage with it’s bleeding, not to mention the longest immobilize right next to Dark Pact.

Yeah, once again the meta is conditions, tankiness and CC.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Pin Down can deal 7k damage with it’s bleeding, not to mention the longest immobilize right next to Dark Pact.

Yeah, once again the meta is conditions, tankiness and CC.

True,but that meta counts for all classes now,im wondering if anet is ever gonna remove that blindfold so we can see powerbuilds again…Getting pretty kitten boring seeing the same builds everywhere in pvp now.Use to saw alot of axe warriors,hammer warrs,greatsword warrs…Now its just hambow or swordbows,cant even start trying to blame the warrs,this is all on anets side for pushing us towards this.

how to make power crit builds viable again?
would greatly increasing the damage from power traits help? O_O

i.e. warrior’s strength trait line
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if
Adrenaline stage 1: 25%
Adrenaline stage 2: 60%
Adrenaline stage 3: 100%

overkill much? O_O

or this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heightened_Focus
Gain bonus critical-hit chance for each stage of adrenaline you have.
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if it became this instead?

Gain bonus critical-hit chance and critical damage for each stage of adrenaline you have.

Adrenaline stage 1: 15% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 2: 30% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 3: 50% critical chance & damage

would this cause kamikaze warriors to roll 30/10/0/0/30 for the uber damage potential?

this means no adrenal health, no cleansing ire, but would the extra damage be worth it?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how to make power crit builds viable again?
would greatly increasing the damage from power traits help? O_O

i.e. warrior’s strength trait line
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if
Adrenaline stage 1: 25%
Adrenaline stage 2: 60%
Adrenaline stage 3: 100%

overkill much? O_O

or this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heightened_Focus
Gain bonus critical-hit chance for each stage of adrenaline you have.
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if it became this instead?

Gain bonus critical-hit chance and critical damage for each stage of adrenaline you have.

Adrenaline stage 1: 15% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 2: 30% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 3: 50% critical chance & damage

would this cause kamikaze warriors to roll 30/10/0/0/30 for the uber damage potential?

this means no adrenal health, no cleansing ire, but would the extra damage be worth it?

What the kitten are you smoking?

TNoD.8143:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how to make power crit builds viable again?
would greatly increasing the damage from power traits help? O_O

i.e. warrior’s strength trait line
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if
Adrenaline stage 1: 25%
Adrenaline stage 2: 60%
Adrenaline stage 3: 100%

overkill much? O_O

or this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heightened_Focus
Gain bonus critical-hit chance for each stage of adrenaline you have.
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if it became this instead?

Gain bonus critical-hit chance and critical damage for each stage of adrenaline you have.

Adrenaline stage 1: 15% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 2: 30% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 3: 50% critical chance & damage

would this cause kamikaze warriors to roll 30/10/0/0/30 for the uber damage potential?

this means no adrenal health, no cleansing ire, but would the extra damage be worth it?

What the kitten are you smoking?

i dun smoke kittens sorry.

but nowadays, do you see any warriors who run their traits 30/10/0/0/30 and choose both berserker power and heightened focus to great success in hotjoin / solo arena / team arena?

given the amount of conditions flying around etc.

i dun think healing signet alone can save the warrior if without the aid of cleansing ire and adrenal health.

plus, berserker stance, endure pain had really long recharge time.

Sigh.

So anet dosent want certian classes to be tanky and deal dmg, but now any class that specs for condi can tank AND deal dmg. Sure you can pack lots of condi removal but condis can be easily rethrown and since you are a tank it is very easy to throw condis and kite.

Apparently you don’t play a condition class. What does “condis can easily be rethrown” even mean? Condition specs have cooldowns as well and removing their main source of damage hurts them of course.
Kiting is essential for any ranged build or if you get focused (by, for example, a hammer swinging warrior that is immune to your attacks…)

Mosharn.8357:

Which is why the condi kite meta is so strong right now.

What condition meta? In the last weeks no team i fought had more than 2 condi specs, the vast majority had one and some ran without any.
No team had any overall strategy that relied heavily on conditions.

Mosharn.8357:

Does anyone see a way to balance condis? Because a necros sig of spite with some auto atks is GG most the time.

Most condi necros i see run a build like forsaker (corrupt boon, spectral walk, flesh wurm, flesh golem, lyssa runes). I don’t see spite around that much.
Also, spite doesn’t kill you. It provides cover conditions for the burst which consists of terror, burning and bleed stacks.
The dhuumfire-terror burst build has very few defences and gets destroyed in teamfights once focused. It also isn’t a great nodefighter. It’s not a tank.

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

What? (Anyhow, no tank)

Mosharn.8357:

Or the warrior which we all know already

It’s more of a solo queue build and isn’t that great in teams (however warrior balancing is an issue of it’s own). The spec is great against some, but kills specs with decent removal rather slowly and doesn’t provide much in teamfights.
It can be built to be a tank.

Mosharn.8357:

and then we haz the thief

P/d is seen in wvw, duel events and very occasionally hotjoins. It’s not even particularly popular and quite weak. Thieves aren’t tanks.

Mosharn.8357:

and engi.

Condi engi has been strong for a long time but is in no way overpowered. The vigor toned it down a bit and was a good change. There is a constant balance act between damage and survivability and you can’t get both very effectively in one build.
They can be built to be tanks but suffer from lack of condition removal and stability. If tanky (e.g. settler) they also give up a lot of damage.

Mosharn.8357:

What if healing is reduced in condi builds while keeping vit/toughness? Because there is lots of healing thrown in condi builds. All of the classes that spec for condi have massive heal gens.

Nonsense. With the exception of very few builds use settlers amulet. None of the builds you used as examples use it in their standard builds.

Mosharn.8357:

Where as power builds dont have that kind of healing as you would go for tanky ness with power and not have room for healing. The amount of healing on condi builds can get pretty ridiculous.

Same as above, but for example meditation dps guardians have decent sustain, so does the hambow.

Mosharn.8357:

What are your guys thoughts on healing condi tanks balance state?

It’s fine.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

TNoD.8143:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how to make power crit builds viable again?
would greatly increasing the damage from power traits help? O_O

i.e. warrior’s strength trait line
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if
Adrenaline stage 1: 25%
Adrenaline stage 2: 60%
Adrenaline stage 3: 100%

overkill much? O_O

or this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heightened_Focus
Gain bonus critical-hit chance for each stage of adrenaline you have.
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if it became this instead?

Gain bonus critical-hit chance and critical damage for each stage of adrenaline you have.

Adrenaline stage 1: 15% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 2: 30% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 3: 50% critical chance & damage

would this cause kamikaze warriors to roll 30/10/0/0/30 for the uber damage potential?

this means no adrenal health, no cleansing ire, but would the extra damage be worth it?

What the kitten are you smoking?

i dun smoke kittens sorry.

but nowadays, do you see any warriors who run their traits 30/10/0/0/30 and choose both berserker power and heightened focus to great success in hotjoin / solo arena / team arena?

given the amount of conditions flying around etc.

i dun think healing signet alone can save the warrior if without the aid of cleansing ire and adrenal health.

plus, berserker stance, endure pain had really long recharge time.

I also don’t see a lot of 30-30-10-0-0 guardians around. Therefore i demand a buff to guardian dps traits.

Whereas the rest of the civilized forum world seems to agree that the sustain of warriors needs to be toned down, you argue that they need a buff to their dps? I’m not even sure if a 100% damage increase counts as a buff anymore.
Since you haven’t smoked anything, have you maybe taken any mushrooms?

Monkeymonger.9235:

I also don’t see a lot of 30-30-10-0-0 guardians around. Therefore i demand a buff to guardian dps traits.

Whereas the rest of the civilized forum world seems to agree that the sustain of warriors needs to be toned down, you argue that they need a buff to their dps? I’m not even sure if a 100% damage increase counts as a buff anymore.
Since you haven’t smoked anything, have you maybe taken any mushrooms?

i dun play guardians so i dunno about them.

well, i play a clerics amulet warrior and i certainly dun feel godlike (i dun use berserker stance or endure pain by the way, 3 vigourous shouts, my build is 0/0/25/30/15) though the sustain is good if my opponents do not throw many conditions onto my warrior at the moment. so i think the sustain is at a good acceptable level.

as for glass cannon builds, my skill level does not really allows me to play them plus i dun like dying often so i do not play such builds.

anyway, here is my question for you.

extreme bunker builds vs extreme glass cannon dps burst builds
who should win?

should the spear be sharper? able to penetrate any shield?
or
should the shield be tougher? able to block any spears?

no, i have not taken any mushrooms.

Monkeymonger.9235:

stuff

your responses made me laugh a lot. Warrior fan of fire every 6 seconds that burns for a nice amount. Pin down is long. Then we have f1. 5 stacks of torment every 15 seconds. If you throw in perplex and make it the auto kill build then yeh. Its pretty op lel. You have about 3k-3.2k armor with 20k-22k hp depindin on if any dire gear thrown in. You can do a repetitve cycle then start immbolize fan fire/f1/pin/arc arrow for might/switch impale then run around pew pewin. Its stupid. While yo do all of this and your target is removing all those and what do you have to do? Just go to LB and start the whole thing over because everything will be getting off of CD. I have a condi war set and i do not have to put a single ounce of effort to kill people in 1v1ns.

My hp stays high due to my shout regens if i go for those/heal sig and my 3.2k armor keeps me up and at em. with 2 sources of immobilize. Many sources of bleed, 2 sources of burn, 1 source of torment that wil still leave torment until the skill it self is off cd for reuse.

Engi can apply 3 condi at once on pistol auto if traited i think to mask thier burns. Poison/burn/confusion. Necro has to auto atk if dhuumfire is there then throw in sig and continue auto attackin to GG. Because you can easily down ppl with just auto atk after sig of spite. Rangers evade for days and heal while throwin constant poision/burns/bleeds while being able to regen and rely on easy 3k armor.

A lot of condi build.. well every condi build will have near 3k armor or more unless you go full rampagers but idk if anyone does full rampagers.

P/d thief have to put no real effort in as all they have to do is auto atk 5/1/3/5/1/3
No effort just kite and repeat and if anything does happy pop teh easy heals.

I dont know why you are protecting condis but its silly. btw hambow and medi sustain guards have notin to do with condi meta. Thier healin is way lower then condi traited folks. Hambow might be a lil it since its warrior but yeh.

I was trying out condi ele and was holding off 3 ppl and even downed 2 of em on point several times. Done the same on war since condi set ups usualy just require you to bore your self doing circles around people waiting on condis to kill em while you keep the heals going and throwin condis out like no tomorrow.

Power builds have no where near the same sustain as of condi builds. Condi builds require you to set up for less stats since one stat which is cond dmg stat is all you need. Rest is just bonuses like healing power/armor. You dont even need crit chance. Where as in power builds you need an ok amount of armor/hp then you need crit dmg/crit chance and power. Thats 5 stats. Condi classes can live on 3 and out do power.

@Deimos Tel Arin

power builds dont need buffin condi builds need nerfing.

Writetyper.1985:

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

WUT

Elxdark.9702:

Writetyper.1985:

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

WUT

switch to water theres the first heal. Hit 5 2nd heal. Hit 2 thats 3rd heal now dodge for 4th heal. You will be at full hp and have removed 3 condis. Switch to earth churn then flash to em hit 3 switch to fire drake breath ring then back to earth rinse and repeat. If they dodge just keep repeating. Condi builds require no brain usage except for the rotation. Find rotation and repeat till target dyes.
You dont even have to pop your heal most the time but if you do most condi eles ether renewal. And you can easily go to air hit 3 and pop heal for a safe heal.

Your drakes breath does 7k over 3 seconds loldmg. You didnt even have to stack might for this btw. datbalance right?

Mosharn.8357:

Elxdark.9702:

Writetyper.1985:

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

WUT

switch to water theres the first heal. Hit 5 2nd heal. Hit 2 thats 3rd heal now dodge for 4th heal. You will be at full hp and have removed 3 condis. Switch to earth churn then flash to em hit 3 switch to fire drake breath ring then back to earth rinse and repeat. If they dodge just keep repeating. Condi builds require no brain usage except for the rotation. Find rotation and repeat till target dyes.
You dont even have to pop your heal most the time but if you do most condi eles ether renewal. And you can easily go to air hit 3 and pop heal for a safe heal.

Your drakes breath does 7k over 3 seconds loldmg. You didnt even have to stack might for this btw. datbalance right?

Dude are you really serious? cuz there isn’t any condi ele in this game lol.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

how to make power crit builds viable again?
would greatly increasing the damage from power traits help? O_O

i.e. warrior’s strength trait line
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Increased damage based [sic] how much adrenaline you have built.
Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if
Adrenaline stage 1: 25%
Adrenaline stage 2: 60%
Adrenaline stage 3: 100%

overkill much? O_O

or this …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heightened_Focus
Gain bonus critical-hit chance for each stage of adrenaline you have.
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 1: 5%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 2: 10%
Critical Chance.png Adrenaline stage 3: 15%

what if it became this instead?

Gain bonus critical-hit chance and critical damage for each stage of adrenaline you have.

Adrenaline stage 1: 15% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 2: 30% critical chance & damage
Adrenaline stage 3: 50% critical chance & damage

would this cause kamikaze warriors to roll 30/10/0/0/30 for the uber damage potential?

this means no adrenal health, no cleansing ire, but would the extra damage be worth it?

..yeah right….go back hj deimos, srsly…not even worth trying to explain how clueless you are..

Mosharn.8357:

Your drakes breath does 7k over 3 seconds loldmg. You didnt even have to stack might for this btw. datbalance right?

Lol..are you playing this game through internet pages and outdated/wrong/misleading wiki skill descriptions (hint=its 4 instances of burn during 3 sec which means the damage is over 12 sec )?
Anyway im pretty sure that if you could hold against 3 people with your condi ele build i could hold against 6 same people with my full glass ele (hint = you are bad and play against bads )
But it is kinda true that it seems unfair how little condi builds need to invest in offence to be able to kill things efficiently compared to power.And the time needed to kill isnt anywhere near long enough for condies to actually resemble dots.. at least with how many they are and how easily they stack.
But htats how the games been balanced from the start so..tough luck

Power specs actually need to invest less in offense.

Since you apparently play a different game, let me reply to the greatest pieces of nonsense.

Mosharn.8357:

your responses made me laugh a lot.

Thanks. Always willing to help people on the internet.

Mosharn.8357:

stuff + perplexity

Thanks for writing down the abilities of longbow and s/s. I do agree that condition warrior is a strong 1v1 spec, but neither is it invincible nor does it come without drawbacks.
To my real question: Why are you making a nonsense thread in the spvp subforum while playing wvw? All the stats that you posted are rubbish and either unatainable or would require a very weird build.

Mosharn.8357:

Engi can apply 3 condi at once on pistol auto if traited i think to mask thier burns. Poison/burn/confusion. Necro has to auto atk if dhuumfire is there then throw in sig and continue auto attackin to GG. Because you can easily down ppl with just auto atk after sig of spite. Rangers evade for days and heal while throwin constant poision/burns/bleeds while being able to regen and rely on easy 3k armor.

I like this passage. I really do.
You spend an entire passage detailing your warriors weapon skills but at the same time can’t be asked to check what the engi pistol does?

Mosharn.8357:

A lot of condi build.. well every condi build will have near 3k armor or more unless you go full rampagers but idk if anyone does full rampagers.

I have to admit it: I’m curious now. Why am i never close to 3k armor?
Maybe take a look at the popular condition builds in pvp:
Spirit ranger: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-FF3V;1wEFw-n2wDk-0;9-8E;19-TT-2;332A36A;1VN17;2Rk06Rk061FG
Engi: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRw;2cPFw0m5VQFx0;9;4T9-J918A5;308-5;0VN1;3hoHAhoHA2VX
Necro: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z-JGlHVF0A4JI-K0;9;4TJ;0J39A38;528-KNH4-JG4hoHAhJG42VU
Warrior: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFFo;1NKkP0a4ZL-60;9;5TJ-J;128A18;225-TNX6;2TsW6TsW62VA

You see, we come closer to the real issue. You play warrior and obviously like to duel the bots in the mists. I know, on paper you look like a god and all your conditions last soooooo long and do soooo much damage. Maybe try to play against people that know how to evade, how to cleanse conditions and how to apply pressure on you.

Mosharn.8357:

condi ele

Yes, condi ele. Maybe make a video of your condi ele adventures and post it in the ele section. They’ve been looking for a messiah for quite some time now.

Mosharn.8357:

Elxdark.9702:

Writetyper.1985:

Mosharn.8357:

Or an eles condi burst while being able to heal like no tomorrow.

WUT

switch to water theres the first heal. Hit 5 2nd heal. Hit 2 thats 3rd heal now dodge for 4th heal. You will be at full hp and have removed 3 condis. Switch to earth churn then flash to em hit 3 switch to fire drake breath ring then back to earth rinse and repeat. If they dodge just keep repeating. Condi builds require no brain usage except for the rotation. Find rotation and repeat till target dyes.
You dont even have to pop your heal most the time but if you do most condi eles ether renewal. And you can easily go to air hit 3 and pop heal for a safe heal.

Your drakes breath does 7k over 3 seconds loldmg. You didnt even have to stack might for this btw. datbalance right?

i have no reply for this

are we talking about conquest or simply 1v1?

And you know that there are tanky power builds for maybe not all professions but most of them.

Avead.5760:

Mosharn.8357:

Your drakes breath does 7k over 3 seconds loldmg. You didnt even have to stack might for this btw. datbalance right?

Lol..are you playing this game through internet pages and outdated/wrong/misleading wiki skill descriptions (hint=its 4 instances of burn during 3 sec which means the damage is over 12 sec )?
Anyway im pretty sure that if you could hold against 3 people with your condi ele build i could hold against 6 same people with my full glass ele (hint = you are bad and play against bads )
But it is kinda true that it seems unfair how little condi builds need to invest in offence to be able to kill things efficiently compared to power.And the time needed to kill isnt anywhere near long enough for condies to actually resemble dots.. at least with how many they are and how easily they stack.
But htats how the games been balanced from the start so..tough luck

Ive only played ele for 2 days now. Though you should know that.

A war can 1vX on condi build its not hard tbh.

This is what i run for wvw
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|c.1b.h1k.c.1b.h1o.0.0.0|3.1b.h1o.0.0.0|1b.71p.1b.71p.1q.71p.1b.71p.1b.71p.1b.71p.0.0.0.0.0.0|2w.0.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62.1b.62|k37.k38.k29.0.0|30.e|5x.64.6c.66.6m|e

for tpvp
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFFo;1NKkN0a47L-60;9;5JJT;227-18-16B;1VNX6;2jwmAjwmA2VV

healing and 3.2k armor with 1.4k condi dmg with 21k hp. Dosent seem op at all nope no sir.

I don’t believe that anybody doubts that warrior needs a minor toning down.
What about the rest of your outlandish claims?