Guild Wars 2

I keep hearing people saying engi has the highest skillz in game? It frustrates me, since all I see in game is engi spamming bomb/nade and pop toolkit blocking, elixir S, healing turret on the point over and over again with very little animation. TBH, fighting engi is so boring, there is very little counter play. The engi doesn’t counter play me they are defensive spamming focused, and I can’t counter play him much since he has close to none animation. The game play is extremely boring.

So what’s your opinion? Does engi really have high skill floor or it just requires a good keyboard. Please keep your feedback constructive and educational.

• I have engi I don’t play it too much tho since it hurts my finger when playing it.

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like ranger, thief and hammer warrior, but it doesn’t take much skill to play effectively. No real skillshots and mostly just spams things off cooldown. I would put it about the same as necro. Maybe a little easier because you don’t have to keep track of cooldowns on weapon swap and death shroud.

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like ranger, thief and hammer warrior, but it doesn’t take much skill to play effectively. No real skillshots and mostly just spams things off cooldown. I would put it about the same as necro. Maybe a little easier because you don’t have to keep track of cooldowns on weapon swap and death shroud.

im not sure how u think thiefs are more braindead than necros? MM is pretty much one of the most braindead speccs around just sayin.

anyways for engis it highly depends on the build.
the bomb/nade spam build is pretty much a spam 1-5 build on points and make enough pressure to drive people offpoint so yeah thats pretty braindead.

then you have the decap build that just spams knockbacks all day, more in the middle field, actually needs to watch out for stab ect, vs no stab classes its more on the nobrainer side of things.

then you have high skillcap builds like static discharge or HGH wich require alot of micro and reflexes/aiming.

it all depends on the build for engis realy, but they have a semi braindead build too now that actually works.

Stievie.6128:

im not sure how u think thiefs are more braindead than necros? MM is pretty much one of the most braindead speccs around just sayin.

You can say that about any pet build, which I kind of figured was assumed. You didn’t see phantasm mesmer up there either.

HGH wich require alot of micro and reflexes/aiming.

HGH was never a build that took much skill. Teldo reffered to it -a-—-****—-s- —-—-**-s-o- brain dead and boring that it made him not want to play the game.

Edit for the Hitler Filter.

All grenades are skill shots at range and you need to use them intelligently to make sure your opponent doesn’t simply walk out of them (baiting dodges/keeping track of control effects). Also, engineer relies primarily on soft control abilities (blind, chill, cripple) and vigor enable to stay alive.

Another cool thing about engineers is that they can make impressive plays with combo fields in tight situations. For example, they can use the overcharge on healing turret and blast the water field for full party heals. They can also drop a smoke bomb if a team mate gets downed to avoid cleave damage and then blast it for stealth to save a stomp and change the outcome of the fight.

It’s true a lot of people over exaggerate how difficult it is to play engineer. Loading conditions on a target really isn’t that difficult and kit swapping isn’t the most challenging thing in the world given that the kits have no cooldown (unlike elementalist attunements). However, the number of options/plays availible to an engineer at any given moment is what makes them hard to master.

noobftw.9654:

• I have engi I don’t play it too much tho since it hurts my finger when playing it.

Just answered your own question

Average engineer builds aren’t quite at the top of the skill floor spectrum, but they’re decently high. Certainly well above most meta builds. It has maybe the highest apm in the game (as you’ve noticed) and a fairly high rate of active decision-making, but is also somewhat forgiving as you’ve also noticed.

Also, bomb/nade engineers will never pop elixir S and toolkit block. That’s four utilities. Just saying.

Edit: also

Caffynated.5713:

No real skillshots

lel.

Well nades and bomb are probably hardest skills land in whole game if enemy isn’t stupid. It’s just game mode problem that you need to run circles inside ring.

my class is the hardest

In wvw bomb/nade engies take an extreme amount of skill imo because their opponents have the freedom to move and the engineer will need to aim and time his attacks well. In pvp on the other hand, it’s fairly face roll and you will realize this if you ever catch one of these engineers between points, they’re almost free kills.

NevirSayDie.6235:

noobftw.9654:

• I have engi I don’t play it too much tho since it hurts my finger when playing it.

Just answered your own question

spamming=high skill floor?

NevirSayDie.6235:

Also, bomb/nade engineers will never pop elixir S and toolkit block. That’s four utilities. Just saying.

I was of course referring to different builds.

Monoman.2068:

In wvw bomb/nade engies take an extreme amount of skill imo because their opponents have the freedom to move and the engineer will need to aim and time his attacks well. In pvp on the other hand, it’s fairly face roll and you will realize this if you ever catch one of these engineers between points, they’re almost free kills.

in contest mode, it’s fairly easy to hit your target with nade or bomb, you just lay em in the circle.

In wvw tho, it’s actually not hard either. I play engi in wvw quite a lot.

Lopez.7369:

In terms of other classes, they probably do take the most class-specific skill.

But skill in this game isn’t really class-based; it’s about situational awareness and positioning. So when people emphasize one class’s skill over another’s, they’re probably focusing too much on a specific one-on-one fight they just had.

This basicly. When people talk about what requires skill and what doesnt they always imagine 1v1 scenario or some hotjoin match.
Engi doesnt have high skill floor but it has high skill ceiling.
With the way this game is made no class takes real skill, but it takes skill to do correct stuff at correct time in team pvp.
Basicly anything that sucks is viewed as requiring skill, atm its ele + they have alot of skill so for people who havent pvped in mmos with tons of skills they seem complicated.

not really, engi requires a lot of knowledge of the class to do well.

Juan Ignacio.8903:

my class is the hardest

u play warriorz?

I do not call that skill, but practise. After that its like every other class.

Pretty much every single Engineer you see in solo queue is 2,3,8,5,3,6,F2,5,4,3,2,7,5,4,3,2 pure skillz killz machine. Same with every D/D Elementalist 4,5,F1,3,4,5 and then run around like a headless chicken spamming whatever if the enemy lived since they have no idea how to play. High skill classes using no skill builds thinking they are skilled at the class.

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like thief …. just spams things off cooldown.

who is more facerolling ….. ingi with his kits, f1-f4, weaponskills1-5, permavigor, shrink, condi immunity, eliteturrets; CCs and kitchange/weaponchange again , again , again, see ya couldowns
the thief?! …. limited Initiative, 1-5 weaponskills, no rdyup skills at weaponchange, no knockdowns/knockbacks, much less conditions variety, 35 sec steal, no immunity to anything?!?!

so which class has to bring on more skill and tactic ….

Arkantos.7460:

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like thief …. just spams things off cooldown.

who is more facerolling ….. ingi with his kits, f1-f4, weaponskills1-5, permavigor, shrink, condi immunity, eliteturrets; CCs and kitchange/weaponchange again , again , again, see ya couldowns
the thief?! …. limited Initiative, 1-5 weaponskills, no rdyup skills at weaponchange, no knockdowns/knockbacks, much less conditions variety, 35 sec steal, no immunity to anything?!?!

so which class has to bring on more skill and tactic ….

Thief.

There was a time when engis were a majestic, rare class championed by great players.

Since then, I don’t think I haven’t seen a single engi that didn’t spam every bomb kit and grenade kit skill. Kinda sad, actually.

can go multi kit build and spam to win, then again i can go the same build actively aim everything use correct combos of skills and win really fast without wasting as many skills, brain dead spamming can work on engineers but mastering that spamming is where its at, master that and you can beat anything, except maybe a good necro.

Caffynated.5713:

HGH wich require alot of micro and reflexes/aiming.

HGH was never a build that took much skill. Teldo reffered to it -kitten -o- brain dead and boring that it made him not want to play the game.

Edit for the Hitler Filter.

Condition HGH maybe since it really is just spam might and conditions, try playing Zerker HGH, i think it requires a pritty high skill level to play, but once you master it kitten you can do some damage with it.

does engineer have the highest skill cap? no, does it have a high leaning curve? yes i think so, once you learn how to play with everything an engineer has it can be very easy to accomplish things?

Engineer is pretty much a tougher and more spammy version of Elementalist.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arkantos.7460:

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like thief …. just spams things off cooldown.

who is more facerolling ….. ingi with his kits, f1-f4, weaponskills1-5, permavigor, shrink, condi immunity, eliteturrets; CCs and kitchange/weaponchange again , again , again, see ya couldowns
the thief?! …. limited Initiative, 1-5 weaponskills, no rdyup skills at weaponchange, no knockdowns/knockbacks, much less conditions variety, 35 sec steal, no immunity to anything?!?!

so which class has to bring on more skill and tactic ….

Thief.

I remember what people say about s/d ones, though. That they are some other cheese.

Almost every class has its low skill builds. And some pretty kittenes (for instance, try to build a full damage zerker warrior with no point into Defense Tree, no endure pain, no cc. Even with healing Signet, I can assure it’s pretty hard playing with only 2100 armor when you always have to stay melee…).

Blame the build, not the class!XD

noobftw.9654:

NevirSayDie.6235:

noobftw.9654:

• I have engi I don’t play it too much tho since it hurts my finger when playing it.

Just answered your own question

spamming=high skill floor?

NevirSayDie.6235:

Also, bomb/nade engineers will never pop elixir S and toolkit block. That’s four utilities. Just saying.

I was of course referring to different builds.

Apologies, I was trying to be humorous. It’s true that grenades don’t have an auto so some pve players do warn of carpal tunnel. If you’re using grenade auto much in PvP I’m afraid you’re doing it wrong, though.

engis in open field might be not as strong, in capture point game they are one of them best imo since you have to fight them in their “gadgets” or lose point

as far as faceroll go, i don’t think they are as mindless as pet classes or warriors but are quite close there

NevirSayDie.6235:

Apologies, I was trying to be humorous. It’s true that grenades don’t have an auto so some pve players do warn of carpal tunnel. If you’re using grenade auto much in PvP I’m afraid you’re doing it wrong, though.

well, im not pve player tho I don’t like to run bunker builds in pvp so engi is not on my fav list, but it’s ok, apology accepted.
ppl keeps saying aiming grenades in open field is hard, i play engi a lot in gvg, it’s actually not as hard as you think. Just combo it with stun or group bomb, and keep pressure on enemy downs how hard is that.
However it’s too much key spamming tho, which is the reason I prefer to bomb with zerker necro instead in gvg. Necro’s well bombing does slightly more damage than grenade but only needs 2 keys, unless I feel absolute pleasure facerolling my keyboard why should I make myself suffer for no fun? as engi, I tag a lot of ppl and does awesome damage all around, but it’s still more boring to play than necro bomb, which needs good timing. For engi, if I miss the timing, no big deal, just keep throwing it. It gets boring really fast.
anyways, that’s open field gvg, in pvp nade and bomb are very easy to hit targets.

The thing I really don’t like about bomb/grenade kit is they all have bad animation, you can’t tell if it’s shrapnel grenade, grenade barrage which does great damage or a flash grenade or auto grenade which is meh. You can tell a freeze or poison grenade but it really hurts my eye especially when the screen is filled with every possible color. And bomb kit is worse, it has close to zero animation. Same for turret, the only practical way to ID a turret is when it attacks or heals.
Fighting tool kit or rifle is fun, but as far as turret , bomb or nader goes, it’s extremely boring. You are pretty much forced to spam your dodges, skills as the engi does.

Bomb/nade has a bit of a learning curve because of the kit swapping but once you get used and memorize all the buttons it’s pretty simple and its pretty easy to win 1on1’s, specially in conquest, and it can be and feel a little spammy. Some engineers claim that it’s hard because you have alot of buttons to push but i think that that actually makes it a little easier since that way you always have something to pressure your foe.
With that said, despite being easy to play, it still has room to improve with the things you can do with blast finishers and such. I think that it is a good example of what an easy to play build should be like: small (but still mechanically demanding) learning curve, leading to good effectiveness that still has a huge room to be improved upon.

When i killing golem mark 2 i land my nades like whole time. Bombs too if i go close.

IMO the elementalist has a higher skill floor than the Engi. I’ve played both, and I found the engineer easier.

A simple way to put it would be this: whenever another class goes to make an action, they usually have a single button press to accomplish that goal. This “one action per click” allows players to chain their actions together to make combinations. Such an example is using Cloak and Dagger into Steal, then backstab. This requires 3 button presses, and each press performs a single action in a chain.

With the engineer… this is not so. Engineer kits require at least two presses per action: 1 to equip the kit, and then one to use the kit. A large number of engineer skills are also ground targeted, so first the engineer has to scroll over the target area, then activate the skill. The engineer also has more function buttons to use, requiring more keybinds and wider strides of the hand to use.

These extra actions add up. For example, to, say, use healing turret at the effectiveness of every other heal in the game, you have to perform 3 actions: Place healing turret, overcharge healing turret, detonate healing turret. Just to heal. If you run a bunker spec, you have to do two more actions, which are switch to elixir gun, and fire acid bomb upon overcharging the healing turret. That is 5 button presses for something that a Guardian or a Ranger gets in one press. Combine this with a condi bomb (fire kit into fire bomb + smoke bomb then into tool kit for magnet + pry bar + weapon swap for poison dart), and it takes 8 button presses to do something that necromancers could do in one or two.

While the engineer has a lot of skills, many of them are balanced around the fact that we have access to all our skills all the time. So, our skills get reduced potency under the assumption that we will be using them to make combos and to spam them. So, to be effective, you have to be chaining explosions into fields, all while flipping around with evasive skills and vigor. This is quite hard, but the end result is a player who is both potent and unpredictable.

Currently, the greatest strength of the engi comes from our ability to fight on-point. If we aren’t bunkering, our AoEs can deal good damage. The weakness in this, however, is that when caught off point, it is really hard to fight someone. The bomb kit is really hard to use when your opponent doesn’t have to stand next to you.

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like ranger, thief and hammer warrior, but it doesn’t take much skill to play effectively. No real skillshots and mostly just spams things off cooldown. I would put it about the same as necro. Maybe a little easier because you don’t have to keep track of cooldowns on weapon swap and death shroud.

What? How is thief a faceroll class?

How is Necro harder than engi? No skillshots? You call those cap-point-size marks a SKILLSHOT? Engi’s don’t have to keep track of cooldowns on weapon swap? Yeah they don’t, they have to keep track of cooldowns on kit-swap, which implies a much larger number of skills’ cooldown to track.

Basically everything you said is bullkitten.

In my opinion: pressing a lot of buttons isnt a indicator for skill.
Most people think thats why engi has a high skillfloor. The real reason why engi has a high skillfloor is because of the high rate of decisionmaking you have to do as an engi with all these skills available ( like on a 3kit). Also with all the warris around a wrong decision often ends directly in a downstate. Thats another point for a high skillfloor.

If you want to play engi on a high level, it really needs a lot of training and experience—> high skill
On the other side, a engi can be quite effective on bomb/nade on a lower level, even if the player only spams his skills. Thats why people argue that engi has a low skilllevel. if you are new to engi you can learn really quick and you can kill bad players easly. People often think its an easy class because of that.

But if you really want to master the class you cant spam the skills on cd even on bomb/nade. An engi also has a lot of counters. Your defensive are soft-ccs and movement+dodges. Another big point is, that as an engi there is no real rotation (like on an ele) so you have to react to the enemy and chose your skills wisely.

conclusion (my opinion):

Just playing engi doesnt take that much skill (low level) because apm =! skill

mastering engi/playing on a high level takes a lot of skills, because of decisionmaking, movement ,dodges, combos, counters (stun, imobilize, condis…) and dont forget that at least half of the skills are skillshots

—> And thats where all classes should be: Good class to begin on low level, but hard to master + a lot of different builds/playstyles

edit: sry bad english

TL;DR:

People need to learn the difference between skill floor and skill ceilling.

Engi might have a low skill floor, but it has a skill ceilling higher than most classes.

Depends what you play if you play bombs nades then its pretty face roll. Other than that I would say the class over all has quite a high skill ceiling.

this forum^^

most people in this thread here dont ever will see or understand what is possible with an engi (or ele) all i read in this thread here is people play like this muppet video and go “buddooons” and think thats it^^

From my perspective Engineer has an extremely low skill floor. Put on protection injection and automated response and just spam as many nades and bombs as possible and you’ll be effective at mid level pvp. I did this on my alt and won my first 9/10 solo queue games, ending up ranked 300

On the flip side it definitely has a high skill ceiling compared to some classes and is one of the harder classes to master imo.

Anti.9156:

In my opinion: pressing a lot of buttons isnt a indicator for skill.
Most people think thats why engi has a high skillfloor. The real reason why engi has a high skillfloor is because of the high rate of decisionmaking you have to do as an engi with all these skills available ( like on a 3kit). Also with all the warris around a wrong decision often ends directly in a downstate. Thats another point for a high skillfloor.

If you want to play engi on a high level, it really needs a lot of training and experience—> high skill
On the other side, a engi can be quite effective on bomb/nade on a lower level, even if the player only spams his skills. Thats why people argue that engi has a low skilllevel. if you are new to engi you can learn really quick and you can kill bad players easly. People often think its an easy class because of that.

But if you really want to master the class you cant spam the skills on cd even on bomb/nade. An engi also has a lot of counters. Your defensive are soft-ccs and movement+dodges. Another big point is, that as an engi there is no real rotation (like on an ele) so you have to react to the enemy and chose your skills wisely.

conclusion (my opinion):

Just playing engi doesnt take that much skill (low level) because apm =! skill

mastering engi/playing on a high level takes a lot of skills, because of decisionmaking, movement ,dodges, combos, counters (stun, imobilize, condis…) and dont forget that a least half of the skills are skillshots

—> And thats were all classes should be: Good class to begin on low level, but hard to master + a lot of different builds/playstyles

edit: sry bad english

Dis

If you think about it you have two weap sets you can swap to a heal skill 3 utilities and an elite and some f1 skills. Engi actually only has one wep set then his utility kits. Overall none of the class are that hard you pretty much just spam everything and put it on cooldown then switch weps.

The game I played before guild wars was Darkfall. Most have never heard of it. It was a full loot free aim style hardcore pvp game. You had 10 hot bars with 10 slots on each. So you had a total of 100 different skills and spells to use at your disposel. We actually used all those skills/spells when they were needed. Making the game have a much higher skill ceiling then any of these tab target games with 10-15 total skills/spells. Before that I played utlima online. A mage had 64 spells in that game.

Engie used to have a high skill floor, and certain builds still do (just like all classes), and still does have a high skill cap (when you move from blindly spamming skills off cooldown to spamming with purpose). What really lowered engie skill-floor was increasing bomb radius to be as big as a point. Bombs used to take some skill in terms of zoning and timing. Now you can just spam them down and play defensive while your opponent is forced to eat condis.

Aiming nades CAN be hard in certain situations, especially at higher levels where people are good at knowing which to dodge (thus baiting out dodges to land your chill grenades, for instance). However, at lower levels, just spamming nades off CD works really well. In fact, the difference between spamming and using them properly is very subtle and only improve the play slightly.

TLDR: Low skill floor nowadays, but still has high skill-ceiling in terms of some dodging and aiming, especially if not just playing bomb/nade bunker.

I think my class is the hardest because it has so many skillshots.

I wouldn’t call it high skill floor as much as higher muscle-memory floor. Combat in this game is highly dependent on rotations.

Press 1-5 and run around in circles spamming red stuff on the ground and you win. Much skill such power wow

Most classes are very simplistic in GW2 and just tend to rotate cooldowns. Engineers and Elementalists have a little more going for them as they have a more complex class mechanic. But even they are mostly limited by cooldowns and little else. So there are still fixed “rotations”, they just require more attention.

In the scope of overall MMO class complexity though all GW2 characters rank rather low.

I’ve played engi for a kitten long time. Almost 6,000 touneys racked up on the class. I’ve played it extensively in both high level play and solo queues.

In my opinion, given my experience on all other classes as well, engi is the hardest to play optimally simply because of grenades being the hardest skillshot to land. This isn’t even debatable. If you disagree then I SERIOUSLY suggest that you go play a nade engi for a decent amount of time and then compare it to any other skillshot in this game. Grenades are a HUGE part of engi play in TPvP and are the most frequently used skillshot amongst any class. 1v1s are won by vast margins and lost in embarrassing fashion by grenade aim alone. If I miss all of my grenades I’m liable to turn around and start running.

Another factor is that engis are EXTREMELY good in almost any scenario. What this means is that you need a near perfect grasp of all scenarios that might pop up to play an engi correct. 1v1s against all classes and all specs (barring necros, of course) are possible. Engis excel at being a jack of all trades with very little that can scare them when played extremely well. This simply means that you need to play extremely well in a lot of scenarios.

I would also like to point out that our survivability is almost entirely based around how well we dodge, blind and position possibly more so than any other class in the game. It might sound odd to most, but in my experience engis are very squishy given our position and roll in team fights. Condis kill people slowly so we position ourselves to take more damage more frequently. Adequately being able to handle incoming damage through only active sources that are limited is difficult. We are also very limited on stunbreaks (one every 60s MAX) and run with THE LEAST condi clear of any viable class in the game (one that’s tied to our heal)

Also, to play engineer optimally means you need to very heavily pay attention to incendiary powder to land it on the correct target at the right times. This is what people seem to misunderstand about “spam” and engis. Our main source of single target damage (damage that’s actually valuable in most occasions) comes from incendiary. If we start spamming grenades or bombs all over a point covered by a mesmer we’re very liable to proc incendiary on clones to the extent where we will almost never actually kill the mesmer.

FINALLY I’d like to remind people that I’m talking about playing engineer OPTIMALLY, aka near the skill cap. Skill floor I cannot comment on because I haven’t been at that level in a while. It’s hard to guess how well a noob would play engi and how effective he’d be at it…

Is engi hard? kitten yes. Are engis OP? kitten yes. Know the difference.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

If you think about it you have two weap sets you can swap to a heal skill 3 utilities and an elite and some f1 skills. Engi actually only has one wep set then his utility kits. Overall none of the class are that hard you pretty much just spam everything and put it on cooldown then switch weps.

The game I played before guild wars was Darkfall. Most have never heard of it. It was a full loot free aim style hardcore pvp game. You had 10 hot bars with 10 slots on each. So you had a total of 100 different skills and spells to use at your disposel. We actually used all those skills/spells when they were needed. Making the game have a much higher skill ceiling then any of these tab target games with 10-15 total skills/spells. Before that I played utlima online. A mage had 64 spells in that game.

A small amount of skills or actions does not necessarily mean that the game is easy or shallow. A trivial example is Chess.

Ostricheggs.3742:

-snip-

I know that you’re a skilled engineer Ostrich, and I have no doubt that placing your grenades perfectly is a difficult skill to learn. However, I and many others who have played engi or currently alt/main one have found that just spamming grenades tends to work extremely well for the vast majority of situations. Poison fields, bleeds, chills, blinds- there’s really no reason not to spam them, which is unfortunate.

As for being good in all scenarios: if you want to play engi optimally, then of course you need to learn how to play in all scenarios. However, a base knowledge of guarding a point and taking a point are all you need to be able to succeed, at least at mid-level tPvP, which has resulted in engineers who will take out their Bomb Kit (before or after using every skill in their grenade kit) and then faceroll their keyboard, using each and every skill in their kitten nal as quickly as possible.

As long as a player aims his/her grenades and bombs at the real mesmer (which, for the sake of argument, I’m going to say is a skill that is required to be an average player, since otherwise you’re going to be ineffective with all builds anyways), then incendiary powder will benefit from spamming. Of course, this is difficult against PU mesmers, to an extent, but you can always just spam auto on Nade/Bomb kit, which should be sufficient in dealing damage. As a result, Incendiary Powder will almost always in fact benefit from spamming, whether you realize you’re spamming or not; naturally, spamming your skills will give you more crits, and more crits mean more burning.

I wouldn’t call myself a noob, but I do think I have a bit less experience with engi as opposed to other classes (this isn’t entirely true- I have more hours overall on engi than my warrior or ranger, but those classes don’t require much experience anyways compared to other classes…). I don’t doubt that the skill cap is extremely high for engis, judging by their very nature (though there are many builds across professions that have a similarly high skill ceiling, though you need really do need to play near that ceiling in order to be effective with those builds), but judging by my own experiences, engi has a really high skill floor. It’s extremely unfortunate for such an interesting class, but it’s true. I can’t tell you how many scrubs I see that are able to play amazingly with an engi with Bomb kit and Grenade kit in their hands.

How is a grenade any harder to land than a Cluster Bomb Ostrich?

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

How is a grenade any harder to land than a Cluster Bomb Ostrich?

They are equally hard to hit but an important fact is that engi commits to the fight and will die when missing while thief can disengage (even though this will be suboptimal for the team on the long term).

Dojo.1867:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

How is a grenade any harder to land than a Cluster Bomb Ostrich?

They are equally hard to hit but an important fact is that engi commits to the fight and will die when missing while thief can disengage (even though this will be suboptimal for the team on the long term).

I see plenty nades engis running with rocket boots, thats a solid disengage

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Dojo.1867:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

How is a grenade any harder to land than a Cluster Bomb Ostrich?

They are equally hard to hit but an important fact is that engi commits to the fight and will die when missing while thief can disengage (even though this will be suboptimal for the team on the long term).

I see plenty nades engis running with rocket boots, thats a solid disengage

Really stupid waste of space to use that instead of Tool Kit or Bomb Kit.

glaphen.5230:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Dojo.1867:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

How is a grenade any harder to land than a Cluster Bomb Ostrich?

They are equally hard to hit but an important fact is that engi commits to the fight and will die when missing while thief can disengage (even though this will be suboptimal for the team on the long term).

I see plenty nades engis running with rocket boots, thats a solid disengage

Really stupid waste of space to use that instead of Tool Kit or Bomb Kit.

Not if you’re already running Bomb Kit and/or nade kit. Tool Kit really isn’t that useful, unless you’re on Skyhammer. Rocket Boots are also extremely good for the blast finisher.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

What? How is thief a faceroll class?

How is Necro harder than engi? No skillshots? You call those cap-point-size marks a SKILLSHOT? Engi’s don’t have to keep track of cooldowns on weapon swap? Yeah they don’t, they have to keep track of cooldowns on kit-swap, which implies a much larger number of skills’ cooldown to track.

Basically everything you said is bullkitten.

How is thief not faceroll? I didn’t call anything on necro a skillshot and I said they were about the same with maybe necro being slightly harder because it has to manage weapon swap and deathshroud cooldowns instead of being able to pull out any tool it needs at any time. Kit swap has a 1 second cooldown, I’m not sure how effort you need to put into tracking that, but if you think thief isn’t faceroll, I’ll go ahead and assume a lot.

Ostricheggs.3742:

In my opinion, given my experience on all other classes as well, engi is the hardest to play optimally simply because of grenades being the hardest skillshot to land. This isn’t even debatable. If you disagree then I SERIOUSLY suggest that you go play a nade engi for a decent amount of time and then compare it to any other skillshot in this game. Grenades are a HUGE part of engi play in TPvP and are the most frequently used skillshot amongst any class. 1v1s are won by vast margins and lost in embarrassing fashion by grenade aim alone. If I miss all of my grenades I’m liable to turn around and start running.

Phoenix is far more difficult to land than grenades. It has to be timed and positioned perfectly or it’s damage gets cut in half or misses all together.

As far as grenades being hard to land, I disagree in pretty much any sPvP scenario. It’s almost impossible to miss a 150 radius AoE when fighting on point. If you’re trying to land them at long range, you have to compare the difficulty to other long range skills. Do you really believe that landing grenades is harder than ele staff AoE at those ranges?