Guild Wars 2

When people complain about stealth, they often talk about thieves and mesmers in the same breath. This is just plain wrong. Thieves have an essentially infinite access to stealth not just with utilities, but with weapon skills as well. And because of the initiative system and regeneration traits they’re able to chain various stealths together to remain invisible almost all the time if they want.

Most mesmers in sPvP on the other hand have just one (at the most two) sources of stealth on long cooldowns. Honestly I’ve seen some engineers who seemed to stealth more often!

Main sources of mesmer stealth:

1. Decoy – 3 seconds of stealth on 40 sec cooldown
2. Mass Invis – Elite on 90 second cooldown. 5 seconds.

That’s it. There are traits and crap weapons like the torch granting stealth that no one uses and you won’t come across them. There’s veil which once again I’ve yet to see anyone ever use.

So bottom line – Mesmers stealth once every 40 seconds for 3 secs. It’s nowhere close to the amount of stealth that thieves have access to. So don’t lump us together!

The earlier thread was locked: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Forcible-unlock-on-Mesmers/first#post1803584 . Continuing discussion here.

Sure, thieves have easier access stealth, but mesmer can spam clones almost infinitely. That coupled with some stealth makes fighting the class nasty.

Also note how mesmer doesnt get revealed when generating illusions: that is insanely good.

Woutan.5934:

Sure, thieves have easier access stealth, but mesmer can spam clones almost infinitely. That coupled with some stealth makes fighting the class nasty.

Also note how mesmer doesnt get revealed when generating illusions: that is insanely good.

Clone production doesn’t break the target…so you just have to watch out for shatters.

And yeah – illusion generation doesn’t break stealth. In fact, damage from illusions doesn’t even show up in the combat log…sucks.

I agree mesmers are worse not only do they drop target but locks a second one. I know you guys are worried about it and you should be your getting a nerf most op class in the game clone output is too high with staff + runes of energy, dmg is to high on mind wrack, and cloak the way it is gives you a free rez.

2x 80 mesmers one glass one balenced

Thesilentflute.8761:

I agree mesmers are worse not only do they drop target but locks a second one. I know you guys are worried about it and you should be your getting a nerf most op class in the game clone output is too high with staff + runes of energy, dmg is to high on mind wrack, and cloak the way it is gives you a free rez.

2x 80 mesmers one glass one balenced

This thread is specifically about the Mesmer’s limited stealth options.

and the point of this thread is… what… (besides of being totally useless)??

Oh noez, limited stealths? Good thing you can pop clones out your butt to cover your escape, stealth or not it’s confusing enough! lol

But anyway I don’t think I’ve ever actually heard anyone legitimately complain about mesmer stealth, I’ve only heard several mesmers complaining about people apparently thinking it :/

yet a good mesmer drops my target like every few seconds… definately way more often than once every 30sec… if stealth is the only way to do so, care to explain ?

perhaps you didn’t realize that decoy’s stealth works even while revealed

Thesilentflute.8761:

I agree mesmers are worse not only do they drop target but locks a second one. I know you guys are worried about it and you should be your getting a nerf most op class in the game clone output is too high with staff + runes of energy, dmg is to high on mind wrack, and cloak the way it is gives you a free rez.

2x 80 mesmers one glass one balenced

And you play what? Warr? Thief? ele? Guard? Guess what they all have access to insane damage… And something just for a little bit of info… You know how several classes have traits that increase their weapon damage on several different weapons take guardians for instance they have this for GS and Mace that I know of off the top of my head… Thieves get it for dagger pistol and short bow… Mesmers get one damage bonus from their traits and that is mental torment… We get a power increase with GS training but currently the GS is bugged out and sucks… So once again the only damage bonus we get is for mind wrack… we get no direct damage utilities which several classes get (ele, necro, ranger, thieves, guard) and we get the mindwrack damage bonus only if specifically traited… Our weapon skills (the ones where we actually attack) our the lowest in the game… Our illusion damage is only increased if we take the trait that would be in place of mental torment so its one or the other… And no mesmers can not drop target as often as people gripe about and for the OP any Mesmer is still bringing timewarp to tourneys… So that leaves ONE stealth option… Few people bring torch and it’s only good if traited which would make us lose out on the shatters remove a boon on hit trait…So yes people need to stop lumping us in with thieves… If it is a team fight yeah it may take a second to lock down the real Mesmer but that is the whole point… The clones are a visual distraction and if you are confused by them for more than half a second then guess what you need to learn more about Mesmer clones…We are definitely not the most OP class in the game… take the current map for instance we can’t run the orb since we are slow any of our weapon movement skills are teleports not closers so we will drop the orb… My team has specifically requested I don’t use my mes on this map because other classes are more useful…

Oh god, this thread has no future.
To topic: a good mesmer is indeed hard to catch, but definitely not hard to target. The stealth is not a problem at all. It’s more about the phase retreat and the dodge roles.

Phase Retreat seems indeed quite OP.
Maybe Illusionists Celerity should’nt work on it?

bhagwad.4281:

Thieves have an essentially infinite access to stealth not just with utilities, but with weapon skills as well.

Maybe in PvE, but you’re on crazy pills if you think you can do this in PvP.

The problem I have with mesmers right now isn’t stealth, its that I’m often unintentionally hitting clones and phantasms with key attack skills because of right click targeting. Trying to close the gap and then suddenly leaping in the almost complete opposite direction just plain sucks. You can at least predict where someone is when they’re in stealth.

ninja.4139:

bhagwad.4281:

Thieves have an essentially infinite access to stealth not just with utilities, but with weapon skills as well.

Maybe in PvE, but you’re on crazy pills if you think you can do this in PvP.

The problem I have with mesmers right now isn’t stealth, its that I’m often unintentionally hitting clones and phantasms with key attack skills because of right click targeting. Trying to close the gap and then suddenly leaping in the almost complete opposite direction just plain sucks. You can at least predict where someone is when they’re in stealth.

Once again that is WHY MESMERS HAVE CLONES… To be meat shields and then blow up in your face… It is intended for you to hit them thinking they are us.

ninja.4139:

Maybe in PvE, but you’re on crazy pills if you think you can do this in PvP.

I actually see infinite stealth thieves more often in PvP then I do in PvE…….

I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve sat on home point as a necro and fought off a single thief, basically he turned invisible and bailed.

But I’ll use Axe#3 and EVERYTIME I do it for like 2-3 mins I’ll get the retal buff from HITTING A TARGET which means that freaking thief would still be there either waiting for CDs or waiting for backup to help him kill me.

Also I’ve been forced into duel positions with thieves A LOT in PvP and when I start winning they ofc go and hide in the “shadows” as thieves do and they’ll just sit there while they get initiative back and heal themselves with that “gain health in stealth” trait, coming back at full health 15 secs later.

So yes I know it’s how they live and avoid getting squashed, otherwise I’d never have any issues with thieves, but that doesn’t make their “insta-escape” skills and abilities any less frustrating. Any good thief can essentially continuously avoid getting killed for an entire match, as long as they avoid strong bursts which is only other thieves now that warriors can’t get off a full 100B combo on anyone lol

jportell.2197:

ninja.4139:

bhagwad.4281:

Thieves have an essentially infinite access to stealth not just with utilities, but with weapon skills as well.

Maybe in PvE, but you’re on crazy pills if you think you can do this in PvP.

The problem I have with mesmers right now isn’t stealth, its that I’m often unintentionally hitting clones and phantasms with key attack skills because of right click targeting. Trying to close the gap and then suddenly leaping in the almost complete opposite direction just plain sucks. You can at least predict where someone is when they’re in stealth.

Once again that is WHY MESMERS HAVE CLONES… To be meat shields and then blow up in your face… It is intended for you to hit them thinking they are us.

To be fair he is not saying the clone fooled him. It sounds like he knew exactly what he wanted to attack but targeting issues sent him in the other direction. When there is a lot of clutter on the screen at times it can be quite difficult to select the right target. Even when your cursor appears to be on the target you want you can still be given an incorrect target. I’d say it’s an annoyingly legitimate concern.

yep right click targetting makes mesmers a little harder to kill,

since when you use right click to pan/navigate the map to find the real mesmer, it locks/targets the clones instead