you forgot pure knockdown builds that dont allow you to get up ever. and with all your skills put on cd even death shroud the necros ability to deal with this sort of stuff well yea drop and find a new game cause it sux big.
you forgot pure knockdown builds that dont allow you to get up ever. and with all your skills put on cd even death shroud the necros ability to deal with this sort of stuff well yea drop and find a new game cause it sux big.
Please share this “pure knockdown build” that “don’t allow you to get up ever.”
D/D ele has one 2 second knockdown on a 45 second cooldown, and one knockback on a 40 second cooldown. So at most, you will be knocked around for 4 seconds out of every 40. There are plenty of classes with more CC than that.
Earthquake requires the ele to be stationary and is telegraphed with a very obvious animation. Dodge it.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
i actually dont have much trouble with d/d eles. theyre just not fun to fight , end of discussion.
What’s not fun about punishing then dodging churning earth? That alone is fun. Every time they have to magic carpet ride 2800 units from me it’s a mental win. Maybe just change your perception?
I wouldn’t be surprised if people are actually going to defend Ele’s this time. Ele’s were technically fine until ANET buffed them again which boggles me, does ANET really think they’re on the right track?
If you couldn’t stack healing with another Ele that would’ve been fine. But no, you can actually stack. Why should the most mobile class be able to deal sustained DPS and AoE class while being able to stack both heals and condition cleanse with another Ele?
Why? I’m okay with being able to stack ONLY condition removal but to be able to stack both healing and condition removal is overkill. Just putting it out there.
This is the truth of the matter. It is basically close to unplayable and anti-fun if you’re against two equally skilled Ele’s.
D/d ele is hard countered by ranged that can apply any of cripple/chill/immob/stun. Stop being bad.
Sorry. Not wasting time on players who don’t fight good Ele’s. Do paids, fight competitive Ele’s, then come back to me. Not everyone is going to play a trap ranger just to counter Ele’s.
The main point is if you can deal sustained DPS whether be it AoE or single target, then you shouldn’t be able to stack HEALING.
Why the hell is double Warrior not cheese but double Ele is? Because a good Ele’s mobility can’t be impaired. Not to mention the HEAL STACKING is ridiculous. Warriors can stack condition cleanse via Warhorn, but Ele’s can be ten folds better simply because they stack BOTH healing and condition removal. Don’t even get me started on the fact that Ele has more reliable DPS due to the fact that THEIR MOBILITY CAN NOT BE IMPAIRED.
Why the hell is double Thief not cheese but double Ele is? Because Thieves are actually vulnerable to AoE, let alone the fact that they don’t AoE better. Ele’s can also trade hits with AoE because they provide AoE AND stack team sustain on top of it.
D/d ele is hard countered by ranged that can apply any of cripple/chill/immob/stun. Stop being bad.
You mean the cripple you can remove with water attunement?
Because I want you to list the ranged classes that have immob besides the engineer. The ranger doesn’t (if you take a kittenty pet, the f2 activation is literally 2 seconds, way too late), the thief doesn’t, the mesmer doesn’t, the warrior doesn’t, and scepter eles don’t.
So, who has it? Guardian, class that can’t do crap for damage so it doesn’t threaten an ele. Engineer, who people barely play. Staff ele, which will never in the world do damage that a d/d bunker ele can’t outheal.
The main point is if you can deal sustained DPS whether be it AoE or single target, then you shouldn’t be able to stack HEALING.
Why the hell is double Warrior not cheese but double Ele is? Because a good Ele’s mobility can’t be impaired. Not to mention the HEAL STACKING is ridiculous. Warriors can stack condition cleanse via Warhorn, but Ele’s can be ten folds better simply because they stack BOTH healing and condition removal. Don’t even get me started on the fact that Ele has more reliable DPS due to the fact that THEIR MOBILITY CAN NOT BE IMPAIRED.
Why the hell is double Thief not cheese but double Ele is? Because Thieves are actually vulnerable to AoE, let alone the fact that they don’t AoE better. Ele’s can also trade hits with AoE because they provide AoE AND stack team sustain on top of it.
Keep dreaming. Double thief/warrior/mesmer is just as much cheese as double ele. Instead of cc’ing and wearin someone down, they instagib them with burst.
D/d ele is hard countered by ranged that can apply any of cripple/chill/immob/stun. Stop being bad.
You mean the cripple you can remove with water attunement?
Because I want you to list the ranged classes that have immob besides the engineer. The ranger doesn’t (if you take a kittenty pet, the f2 activation is literally 2 seconds, way too late), the thief doesn’t, the mesmer doesn’t, the warrior doesn’t, and scepter eles don’t.
So, who has it? Guardian, class that can’t do crap for damage so it doesn’t threaten an ele. Engineer, who people barely play. Staff ele, which will never in the world do damage that a d/d bunker ele can’t outheal.
Traited warrior, warrior longbow, scepter ele, guardian utility, ranger SB has a stun/daze (1 sec), ranger muddy terrain can immobolize if you time it right, thief as various options in traits or through venom for immobolize and stun; just off the top of my head. However, when you are basically immune to conditions like some d/d ele builds, it matters little.
As far as conditions go, you should use them right after the ele swaps out of water. That way it would have to use a utility or wait 9~11 sec to swap back.
If you’re talking about two eles working together, then I feel it’s because most players don’t focus on team work builds the way people used to do so in gw1. Being stronger in groups than the total individual powers isn’t unique to eles, it’s something that can be applied to all aoe support/buff builds.
Although it’s nothing revolutionary, the basics help a lot in countering eles.
It also helps that a large portion of d/deles also opens the with the same exact combo, air 4,5>fire 3,5,4> earth 4,5 lightning flash.
Ele’s are not hard to counter. People should actually learn the ele skills and check in which attunement the ele is and act accordingly. Sounds like a l2p issue to me.
I have played as D/D Ele and I would agree if spec right and played correctly they are hard to beat (NOT IMPOSSIBLE though). I faced a team of five D/D eles once, they basically face rolled us, but they very good eles and very coordinated in attacks also.
Yea, so stated above hardest class as a Mesmer I have fought is the ENG LOL
Which is really funny because people really minimalize supply crates effectiveness and engi’s as a whole… Just lack of thinking outside the box imo… It’s essentially a full round of free turrets for you so you can equip fun condition damaging kits haha.
omg that d/d ele build has become an urban legend!
Unlimited sustain,bunker defence, infinite knockdowns/backs and i even hear about perma chill :P
But really i love fighting eles even if they are a kitten to die due to everyone picking water/arcane traits.I also love fighting against warriors and basically every class that DOESNT do damage continuously.Dodging the hard hitters is super fun in comparison to fighting for example a shortbow ranger that goes pew pew on you.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people are actually going to defend Ele’s this time. Ele’s were technically fine until ANET buffed them again which boggles me, does ANET really think they’re on the right track?
Not buffs. Bug fixes. Big difference. The build is going to get even stronger too, since there’s more bugs to iron out.
The thing is, I’m not entirely sure that this build needs a nerf quite yet. It’s powerful, sure, but it also has a pretty obvious rotation that is easy to stop. It is also 100% melee, with no solid range options. I get the feeling that this is just knee-jerk raging from people who don’t know how to counter it, much like 100b warriors and backstab thieves at release. That, and a bunch of other classes are due for bug fixes as well. Ranger pet fixes? Enge toolkit fixes? Ranged auto attack tracking? Yeah, major upgrades to other classes that are in the works NOW. Are they going to fix those things only to slam down the nerf bat on those classes shortly after? Bad precident, imo.
Even as someone who doesn’t play the class, I feel that this is something that has to be demonstrably broken before they nerf it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people are actually going to defend Ele’s this time. Ele’s were technically fine until ANET buffed them again which boggles me, does ANET really think they’re on the right track?
Not buffs. Bug fixes. Big difference. The build is going to get even stronger too, since there’s more bugs to iron out.
The thing is, I’m not entirely sure that this build needs a nerf quite yet. It’s powerful, sure, but it also has a pretty obvious rotation that is easy to stop. It is also 100% melee, with no solid range options. I get the feeling that this is just knee-jerk raging from people who don’t know how to counter it, much like 100b warriors and backstab thieves at release. That, and a bunch of other classes are due for bug fixes as well. Ranger pet fixes? Enge toolkit fixes? Ranged auto attack tracking? Yeah, major upgrades to other classes that are in the works NOW. Are they going to fix those things only to slam down the nerf bat on those classes shortly after? Bad precident, imo.
Even as someone who doesn’t play the class, I feel that this is something that has to be demonstrably broken before they nerf it.
The point is that eles currently are top dogs, because they have basically everything you need, and they can be played just how you want it ( bunker, burst, sustained, support etc) and excel with it.
Every weapon is paid tourney viable ( aside the focus, and maybe the staff is A BIT subpar, but can go well with some comps), the ele can be played so differently, with different roles/playstyles ALTOUGH it has 2 traitlines that are basically a big crap.
Basically, the ele is how every class should be ( the only one being close if not superior is the guardian, which has even more builds available), and it’s the reason why both in NA and EU, all top teams run 1 if not 2 eles, because it sinergyzes perfectly with any comp.
Nerfed healing: check
Nerfed condition removal: check
Lowest base hp: check
Lowest base armor: check
melee range: check
Long CD on stun breakers: check
No class specific damage mitigation mechanics: check (except auras maybe)
Obvious burst sequence that doesn’t hit as hard as other burst: check
Ok I get it now. Eles should be free food like they were a few months ago. Oh wait a second, they can still run away. Silly me.
id be fine with d/d’s if their aoe damage was nerfed by 10-15%. right now, it’s possible to dump a crapton of damage, slap some boons on, run around, rinse and repeat.
Nerfed healing: check
Nerfed condition removal: check
Lowest base hp: check
Lowest base armor: check
melee range: check
Long CD on stun breakers: check
No class specific damage mitigation mechanics: check (except auras maybe)
Obvious burst sequence that doesn’t hit as hard as other burst: check
Ok I get it now. Eles should be free food like they were a few months ago. Oh wait a second, they can still run away. Silly me.
QFE (quoted for emphasis)!
If eles run away, it means they need breathing room (aka about to die). Should say something about their current state. Pay attention to how often it happens.
Nerfed healing: check
Nerfed condition removal: check
Lowest base hp: check
Lowest base armor: check
melee range: check
Long CD on stun breakers: check
No class specific damage mitigation mechanics: check (except auras maybe)
Obvious burst sequence that doesn’t hit as hard as other burst: check
Ok I get it now. Eles should be free food like they were a few months ago. Oh wait a second, they can still run away. Silly me.
QFE (quoted for emphasis)!
If eles run away, it means they need breathing room (aka about to die). Should say something about their current state. Pay attention to how often it happens.
This is unacceptable! No one else should be able drop the bomb, and getaway so easily and reset the fight other than the thief! The thief should only be the most annoying class! Why are you d/d eles taking that away from thieves????
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Nerfed healing: check
Nerfed condition removal: check
Lowest base hp: check
Lowest base armor: check
melee range: check
Long CD on stun breakers: check
No class specific damage mitigation mechanics: check (except auras maybe)
Obvious burst sequence that doesn’t hit as hard as other burst: check
Ok I get it now. Eles should be free food like they were a few months ago. Oh wait a second, they can still run away. Silly me.
QFE (quoted for emphasis)!
If eles run away, it means they need breathing room (aka about to die). Should say something about their current state. Pay attention to how often it happens.
This is unacceptable! No one else should be able drop the bomb, and getaway so easily and reset the fight other than the thief! The thief should only be the most annoying class! Why are you d/d eles taking that away from thieves????
Make me lol hard! Ya thats why the most QQer who complain Ele is OP is come from Thief player if you check carefully, Thief should be the only one who have highest survivability(Stealth), mobility(SB), Burst damage(D/D D/P) and condition damage(P/D) in this game!
D/d ele is hard countered by ranged that can apply any of cripple/chill/immob/stun. Stop being bad.
You mean the cripple you can remove with water attunement?
Because I want you to list the ranged classes that have immob besides the engineer. The ranger doesn’t (if you take a kittenty pet, the f2 activation is literally 2 seconds, way too late), the thief doesn’t, the mesmer doesn’t, the warrior doesn’t, and scepter eles don’t.
So, who has it? Guardian, class that can’t do crap for damage so it doesn’t threaten an ele. Engineer, who people barely play. Staff ele, which will never in the world do damage that a d/d bunker ele can’t outheal.
Traited warrior, warrior longbow, scepter ele, guardian utility, ranger SB has a stun/daze (1 sec), ranger muddy terrain can immobolize if you time it right, thief as various options in traits or through venom for immobolize and stun; just off the top of my head. However, when you are basically immune to conditions like some d/d ele builds, it matters little.
What warrior uses longbow in PvP. What ranger uses Muddy Terrain in PvP. Scepter ele does not have an immobilize — that’s dagger/dagger ele’s earth attunement #3.
You have options, yes, about as much an option a mesmer has with using the garbage weapon — scepter. Classes won’t bother to bring one subpar utility skill or trait just to try to counter one class spec.
And, yeah, it does matter little with the condi removal on the ele. But this is not unique to him. Guardians are also pretty ridiculous — and you want to know the common culprit that makes these classes OP? Boon stacking. When only two classes, and only one reliably (necro), can counter boonstacking in this game, we’ve got a problem.
Double Ele is pretty common to see nowadays. Quite frankly this is such a powerful class, i think people dont complain about it because they dont get insta gibbed like they do with thief. But. Ele>thief in the meta by a mile and in terms of performance.
It’s not double ele alone, but included in the whole build. When you have a guardian camping middle shrine, a portal mesmer between other 2, it gets boring having 2 eles running around map tanking players or the last shrine..
I feel it’s pretty irritating for random teams in free tournaments because you can’t really do anything…
seems to be becoming quite a common composition lately.
it’s not that the ele is better than a thief, it’s simply more viable overall.
A thief can be easily countered by good comunication, a thief can’t frontload damage like an ele in valkyrie, a thief needs more overall awereness than an ele, which can simply RTL+ updraft+ burning speed + arcane whatever and smash everything in AoE.
At paid level, playing a thief is more about playing like as part of a team than simply playing as a player, you need COORDINATION to do what you should ( take a look at tokyomurai stream with lowell, or the old Jumper playing with team paradigm in NA).
The ele is so versatile and powerful that it’s overall “easier” than a thief.
Easier than a thief? More frontload than a thief? Hell no.
The only thing ele has over thief is aoe damage/support and bunker ability. Thief is pretty good still; bunkers are just dumb good in a conquest format with classes that can 3-shot nonbunkers.
I’m a D/D ele, I once fought a pre-made tourny group of 4 engineers and 1 gaurdian. I had no idea what was going on other then my face being in the dirt for most of the fight, a stupid amount of kb and imob turrets.
As I have stated many times before, you can take all of my buffs and defensive abilities but on that day I expect our BW1 50 ridiculous % damage nerf to be undone and you can deal with eles that can kill you at the same speed and ease as a thief.
Slasher Sladorian – Charr Warrior – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Easier than a thief? More frontload than a thief? Hell no.
The only thing ele has over thief is aoe damage/support and bunker ability. Thief is pretty good still; bunkers are just dumb good in a conquest format with classes that can 3-shot nonbunkers.
I would like to see a thief that doesn’t do dmg but does aoe damage/support. That would certainly be interesting :x (forget about it being thupid, let’s just throw a bunker thief idea out there they can be like the gear cosmetics for builds^)
We need creativity here guys. I think this is the meta evolving. Maybe a few weeks from now, since double ele as you are saying is basically becoming a standard “cheesy” build in paid tourneys, can we not wait for some group decent and imaginative enough to make a counter comp instead of just swinging the nerf bat here and there? Yea, it may seem to think that since everyone else does it, it’s downright OP instantly for that matter. Try to think that this is not always the case. Perspective, guys.
And about the thief not having some sort of decent aoe damage/support build, yea they do seem to suck at support roles in conquest mode. lol
“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”
Easier than a thief? More frontload than a thief? Hell no.
The only thing ele has over thief is aoe damage/support and bunker ability. Thief is pretty good still; bunkers are just dumb good in a conquest format with classes that can 3-shot nonbunkers.
Wut
You can go valkirye and have perma-fury up, having tons of healing and still having 3k+ power.
So many impairing effects, CCs and stuff, your only weakness is range and still you have kittenload of gap closers.
The ele is one of the most powerful classes right now, and bunker eles are currently broken, because it’s ridicolous to have a bunker capable to travel so fast and neutralize a point in a blink of an eye when only 2 classes working togheter can bring it down ( otherwise you’ll easily handle 1vs2 for more than a minute).
Ele is pretty disgusting right now.. I’m not saying they need to nerf them, but maybe slightly tweak things like RTL to NOT go across the map whenever you feel like it, maybe make it require a target?
I like the fact that they have the ability to stay up and put out crazy stustained dps there should be classes which don’t work like the thief/warrior “big burst” “dies quick” but the combination off surviveability/dps/mobility is pretty crazy and alot of this damage is AOE.. I’m hoping theyre talking about the ele/warrior(greatsword) when they’re saying they’re tweaking AoE damage..
Easier than a thief? More frontload than a thief? Hell no.
The only thing ele has over thief is aoe damage/support and bunker ability. Thief is pretty good still; bunkers are just dumb good in a conquest format with classes that can 3-shot nonbunkers.
Wut
You can go valkirye and have perma-fury up, having tons of healing and still having 3k+ power.
So many impairing effects, CCs and stuff, your only weakness is range and still you have kittenload of gap closers.
The ele is one of the most powerful classes right now, and bunker eles are currently broken, because it’s ridicolous to have a bunker capable to travel so fast and neutralize a point in a blink of an eye when only 2 classes working togheter can bring it down ( otherwise you’ll easily handle 1vs2 for more than a minute).
As a Dagger/Dagger bunker elementalist player I see the nerfs coming a mile away, I’ve played every single profession extensively so far, and this is the most broken and overpowered combination my hands had the pleasure to play (I’m still currently playing it), no other spec in the game (outside Thieve’s Shadow Refuge utility skill, nerf this already) allows for so many mistakes and still keeps fighting like nothing happened, you just have to have water and air off CD. As an example, switch to water (2k+ heal, condi remove), dodge in water with evasive arcana (2k+ heal, condi remove) and Cleansing Wave (2k+ heal, condi remove), all the while never touching the 6, which allows the healing signet to never be on CD for even more sustainability.
I don’t have any kind of “nerphobia” like 99,999% of you (that’s maybe ‘couse I play many professions) so I welcome the nerfs to make things more fair to everyone else and to have a more healthly balanced game for us all.
Also, I expect some nerfs for my Mesmer’s Mind Wrack shatter damage multipliers (maybe changing the trait) and on the innate survivability invulnerabilities and stealth offer in general, but some buffs for a power based Ranger (ex. Longbow, Greatsword viability) among other professions in need of help.
Mindwrack damage increases with the max number of illusions but the illusions individual damage decreases with the number of illusions that are out. Sounds fairly balanced to me…
Ele is pretty disgusting right now.. I’m not saying they need to nerf them, but maybe slightly tweak things like RTL to NOT go across the map whenever you feel like it, maybe make it require a target?
What about… CD increased to 20/25 seconds and range reduced to 900? Making it require a target would be too harsh of a nerf imo, it definetly needs one though.
