Guild Wars 2

People who believe Engineer is OP, are only looking at Conquest aspects

Let’s be real here:
When you kitten the Engineer’s aspects from a game-wide point of view rather than just conquest, it is actually one of the least effective classes

Yes, Engineer is good in conquest while defending a small ground
But is it good in WvW organized zergs? No, It’s not used in elite compositions
Is it good in PvE? Not really, It’s amongst the least effective PvE classes

The problem isn’t Engineer
The problem is that Conquest is the only available match type
This makes Engineer look OP because it’s good at bunkering down in a tiny spot

If we had let’s say: “capture the flag” on a map as large as Lion’s Arch and as complex as the Mad King’s Labyrinth, the complaining would shift from Engineer and go towards Mobile Strike Warriors with Greatswords and Sword/Warhorn
And it’s not that Greatsword Sword/Warhorn is OP! It’s just good at that match up!

So consider this concept and remember that every class/build is meant to be good at certain things and not so good at others. This is what gives the game flavor.

Engi is in a good spot in tpvp, but it is not used as a bunker or turret engi by any top team. It is just new players complaining cause their skill level has not risen above the point where they become more useful than turrets.

Blackjack.5621:

Engi is in a good spot in tpvp, but it is not used as a bunker or turret engi by any top team. It is just new players complaining cause their skill level has not risen above the point where they become more useful than turrets.

^ This…

Lopez.7369:

Your information is outdated. Engineers have been considered really good in PvE for a while now. They’re the best class by far at maxing vulnerability. So no, it’s not just conquest. But engineers aren’t nearly as broken as some people on this forum makes them out to be. Also, engineers are amazing in roaming WvW groups. And they consistently do really well in deathmatch tournaments.

…and ^this….

Honestly I used to be scared to be matched up against an engineer, but then I realized it’s only b/c I haven’t had the opportunity to fight them before as much as I have other classes. Now I can anticipate what will happen in skill rotations, what to watch for, what condi needs to be cleared, etc. I believe it is a majority of players who have yet figured out a strategy with their profession to deal with the engineer.

If you look around there still complain about turret engi and the silly ranger longbow build.The celestial spec is strong don’t get me wrong but nowhere near as strong as some specs have been in the previous meta like healing sig warrior,dhuumfire nec,S/D thief 3k+ AA swiping people to death.If they were smart they would be complaining why thief can explode across the map in a matter of seconds,decap a point and +1 somewhere else also killing most zerk specs with the power of almighty steal or why does D/D ele exist.

If you think engineer is not good in PvE and not good in WvW either.

you are literally outdated, misinformed and do not know your own job well.

My friend who is a all time engineer has figured out its spot in PvE way before everyone did, right after that one update during summer or something, he was like “wow engi does so much insane damage now and so amazing in pve!”
i was like “what? you high?”
back then i wouldnt even believe him. but now i know he was right.

Saying engi is not op, it’s like saying D/D is fine……. And we all know the answer to that.

Don’t hate the entire profession. Hate specific builds if you have to.

The class itself isn’t OP, but the aspects that surround the builds need some change. Sure in lower tiers, Turret Engineer can be annoying and needs a tone, but in higher tier it is not a problem. The turret sustain needs a shed, and to let us be able to crit/apply conditions, and it should be in a good spot in low tiers/hotjoin/in general. IP trait that applies burning could be changed, just like Dhuumfire was. Sigils such as Battle,Fire,Air, and other things can be shed down or have their mechanics changed. Other than that Engineer is strong, but not really overpowered.

In PvE, people underestimate how much an Engineer brings. I play one in High Tier Fractals, and it can bring alot of AoE, team condition cleanses, vulnerability, and just alot more sustain with water field blasts for the team. People just sometimes lack the skill management, awareness, and positioning as well in Fractals/Dungeons.

In WvW, Engineer can be a strong roamer due to the different stat combinations, and food buffs you can have. Especially with Dire (Vitality, Toughness, Condition Damage), you are durable and maintain a lot of condition damage. Engineers get kited in open field by mesmers/longbow rangers/anything that has a brain to LoS and kite. So they aren’t really too overwhelming. Also everything in WvW runs a lot of a sustained builds, so conditions wont’ stick too long. Shadow Art P/D Teef, Prismatic Understanding mesmers, Olympic Gold Medal Warriors, anything build that forgives mechanical mistakes will out sustain a Engineer in WvW.

Engineer is strong and brings alot, but to play one at a high level effectively and correctly in any aspect of the game isn’t easy. Sure it is easy to pick up, but when you face people who know what they’re doing, you are going to get rolled if you don’t know your mechanics and knowledge.

hand-throwing grenade range is 1500 while warrior’s longbow or rifle range is only 1000~1200 and you say it is not op? they made your hand godly powerful than gun though? its op with turret in close fight, it is op in range fight with grenade. both are op, so op. If you deny it isnt op then what is op? gg

@OP:

So, let me understand. You come to a PvP forum where the gamemode is conquest and ask that Engi not be balanced. That makes no sense.

Engi is really strong right now and has been for a long time. The only class that is more OP right now is ele.

Raiyo.1584:

engis not op ? are u really serious ???? i just went in 4 matches in soloq and guess what in all the matches i had to face 3 engis, this is not even fun anymore , turret knockback grenade spam pull and what ever they have

Get good son!

Wahoo! Bye. Frands!

PS I’m on the subway and have internet! Technology is crazy!
Pps Marvin I told u engine is good in pvesports!

Kitt.2567:

hand-throwing grenade range is 1500 while warrior’s longbow or rifle range is only 1000~1200 and you say it is not op? they made your hand godly powerful than gun though? its op with turret in close fight, it is op in range fight with grenade. both are op, so op. If you deny it isnt op then what is op? gg

If you’re letting a Engineer free cast from 1500 range or being hit from 1500 range then yeah that the problem. Just tossing grenades from that range won’t kill anything, and if you and your team aren’t applying pressure then of course they will free-cast, meaning poor awareness.

Kitt.2567:

hand-throwing grenade range is 1500 while warrior’s longbow or rifle range is only 1000~1200 and you say it is not op?

Poor guy. I feel bad for anyone who has such limitations as to use real world physics to justify a fantasy game. Would it make your death better if Anet gave them a graphic launcher for the grenades instead of them being hand thrown…………………..The method is arbitrary. When developing a game, you simply have it do what you want in the sense of your idea, the graphical way it occurs is irrelevant.

As well, I question your wisdom after the first 2 years of the game to use “warrior” as the metric for balance.

Raiyo.1584:

engis not op ? are u really serious ???? i just went in 4 matches in soloq and guess what in all the matches i had to face 3 engis, this is not even fun anymore , turret knockback grenade spam pull and what ever they have

I saw 3 mesmers then 3 thieves. in back to back matches yesterday. By your definition, they are both OP. Brilliant. You are mocking someone elses opinion, then definitively declaring that if randoms stack a particular profession in soloq, that it defines it as OP?

The way I always tell that a class is a little too strong is when people start making threads titled “X is not OP” in an attempt to defend their current easy class.

Especially when it’s followed by “People just haven’t learned how to counter it yet” or “It can do all of this but that doesn’t matter because…” posts.

And look what we have here.

I’m just gonna comment on the engi’s in PvE part.. Someone clearly has only seen Flamethrower camping Engis. You do know engi’s are near the top as far as usefulness in Dungeons/Fractals go correct? As far as DPS goes…Engi’s are also near the top. I run Engi for a Speedrun guild so don’t even think they aren’t useful.
1. Perma Vuln(25% more dps to team)
2. Stealth
3. Might
4. Water fields(on top of fire to guarantee might and healing)
Engis are almost more useful than warriors.. If you took Banners away from Warriors they wouldn’t be worth bringing in Speedruns.

Also in WvW.. I’m sure anyone would appreciate Bombs Heal and Water fields in a zerg..Maybe not over a guardian or an Ele.. but Engis offer their own stuff. ALSO in Little Havoc groups.. engis are amazing to have..

Sorry.. I just don’t like people saying a class is useless in PvE.

Can someone explain what OP means?

Optimus Prime?

Not as bad as Elementalists but still rather strong.

-Entire dps is based upon a critical hit proc.
-Mobility is very strong
-I believe ever since the healing signet nerf, Healing Turret is now the heal per sec skill in the game
-Excellent damage mitigation vs. Burst
-Weak against condi-burst

Again, they’re not nearly as insane as Elementalists but a few things could be changed such as:

-Make Gear shield a 30 sec cd like the rest of the duration blocks.
-Change IP so that instead of a random proc, every certain amount of crits will then make your weapon/kit glow and the next hit applies burning.(this allows for proper counterplay)
-Increase cast time on Healing Turret.

I don’t think any of these are unreasonable.

Edit: They’re only weak to condi’s because most engineers don’t take condi-removal. You should have to choose and it seems like most don’t. You don’t deserve both physical/condi mitigation(elementalist comes to mind).

Increasing cast time on healing turret is the thing I would really like. Even when trying to interrupt the heal it dosent work and the engi always out sustains a thief…. I think such powerful heals really need a cast time like the Necro consume condition is a strong heal but can be rupted.

Biggest issue on engi is the sustain turrets have. Thumper turret needs it’s health cut and turrets need to be changed so that they either can be crit or have all condis applied.

I remember when you could kill an engineer if you had enough stability (and or condition removal), or how engis could just seeming be uncatchable but do little damage.

I don’t know if its been a gradual change, or its because of nerfs to other classes, but engis currently feel to me like d/d ele did before they got nerfed heavily, and how warriors felt after they got buffed, or how necros suddenly became insanely powerful for a while.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

IP trait that applies burning could be changed, just like Dhuumfire was. Sigils such as Battle,Fire,Air, and other things can be shed down or have their mechanics changed.

Not without large changes to the other eng skills to balance it since IP is there to make up for the rubbish aa damage. Dhummfire later added an additional condition to necro, it’s not at all like IP being on eng (which has already been nerfed several times btw). Dhummfire on necro was more akin to eng getting access several stacks of torment (which would be nuts).

In addition to that you want to change air/fire sigils… I guess you like bunker metas?

Arken.3725:

Not as bad as Elementalists but still rather strong.

-Entire dps is based upon a critical hit proc.
-Mobility is very strong
-I believe ever since the healing signet nerf, Healing Turret is now the heal per sec skill in the game
-Excellent damage mitigation vs. Burst
-Weak against condi-burst

Again, they’re not nearly as insane as Elementalists but a few things could be changed such as:

-Make Gear shield a 30 sec cd like the rest of the duration blocks.
-Change IP so that instead of a random proc, every certain amount of crits will then make your weapon/kit glow and the next hit applies burning.(this allows for proper counterplay)
-Increase cast time on Healing Turret.

I don’t think any of these are unreasonable.

Edit: They’re only weak to condi’s because most engineers don’t take condi-removal. You should have to choose and it seems like most don’t. You don’t deserve both physical/condi mitigation(elementalist comes to mind).

-Ignores confusion/bleeds/pois damage. IP is there to make up for the rubbish auto attack damage.
-I would put eng into upper middle as far as mobility. You’re just dealing with perma swift unless they take something like rocketboots (lol)
-Iirc healing turret is only the best if you’re able to pick up the turret which requires you to be near the turret (not always possible to say the least).
-not sure if you’re talking about protection injection, but that requires you to be cc-ed.
-also weak vs CC

-comparing classes individual skills to each other is a huge error. Gear shield is fine as is on eng.
-Again, IP is there to make up for the rubbish AA damage. Many classes can deal more aa damage than an eng with IP.
-two stage heal (drop->overcharge on next tick), increasing cast time not necessary.

I really don’t understand the hate for IP since it also forces the eng to get some pre (takes away from other stats the eng could choose if their aa was stronger instead). I’m not sure if people are just ignorant about why it was put in there in the first place or ???

Aberrant.6749:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

IP trait that applies burning could be changed, just like Dhuumfire was. Sigils such as Battle,Fire,Air, and other things can be shed down or have their mechanics changed.

Not without large changes to the other eng skills to balance it since IP is there to make up for the rubbish aa damage. Dhummfire later added an additional condition to necro, it’s not at all like IP being on eng (which has already been nerfed several times btw). Dhummfire on necro was more akin to eng getting access several stacks of torment (which would be nuts).

In addition to that you want to change air/fire sigils… I guess you like bunker metas?

Arken.3725:

Not as bad as Elementalists but still rather strong.

-Entire dps is based upon a critical hit proc.
-Mobility is very strong
-I believe ever since the healing signet nerf, Healing Turret is now the heal per sec skill in the game
-Excellent damage mitigation vs. Burst
-Weak against condi-burst

Again, they’re not nearly as insane as Elementalists but a few things could be changed such as:

-Make Gear shield a 30 sec cd like the rest of the duration blocks.
-Change IP so that instead of a random proc, every certain amount of crits will then make your weapon/kit glow and the next hit applies burning.(this allows for proper counterplay)
-Increase cast time on Healing Turret.

I don’t think any of these are unreasonable.

Edit: They’re only weak to condi’s because most engineers don’t take condi-removal. You should have to choose and it seems like most don’t. You don’t deserve both physical/condi mitigation(elementalist comes to mind).

-Ignores confusion/bleeds/pois damage. IP is there to make up for the rubbish auto attack damage.
-I would put eng into upper middle as far as mobility. You’re just dealing with perma swift unless they take something like rocketboots (lol)
-Iirc healing turret is only the best if you’re able to pick up the turret which requires you to be near the turret (not always possible to say the least).
-not sure if you’re talking about protection injection, but that requires you to be cc-ed.
-also weak vs CC

-comparing classes individual skills to each other is a huge error. Gear shield is fine as is on eng.
-Again, IP is there to make up for the rubbish AA damage. Many classes can deal more aa damage than an eng with IP.
-two stage heal (drop->overcharge on next tick), increasing cast time not necessary.

I really don’t understand the hate for IP since it also forces the eng to get some pre (takes away from other stats the eng could choose if their aa was stronger instead). I’m not sure if people are just ignorant about why it was put in there in the first place or ???

-So in addition to IP, you further solidify my argument.

-Agreed, can’t disagree with the upper-middle tier.

-From personal experience fighting engies, this always happens.

-Every profession is weak to CC that doesn’t have stun-breaks. This isn’t exclusive to the Engineer. If you don’t take stunbreaks, then re-evaluating your build might be best.

-You’ve yet to explain why Gearshield is fine other than a false comparison?

-Look at other forms of AA that applies condi’s, the dmg is rubbish for the return on condition dmg. It makes zero sense to give both physical/condition on an auto that’s strong on both ends.

The hate for IP is because it’s a random crit proc that has very little to no thought-process involved. Giving it some sort of visual that it’s about to happen gives other plays the opportunity to react.

Arken.3725:

-So in addition to IP, you further solidify my argument.

-Agreed, can’t disagree with the upper-middle tier.

-From personal experience fighting engies, this always happens.

-Every profession is weak to CC that doesn’t have stun-breaks. This isn’t exclusive to the Engineer. If you don’t take stunbreaks, then re-evaluating your build might be best.

-You’ve yet to explain why Gearshield is fine other than a false comparison?

-Look at other forms of AA that applies condi’s, the dmg is rubbish for the return on condition dmg. It makes zero sense to give both physical/condition on an auto that’s strong on both ends.

The hate for IP is because it’s a random crit proc that has very little to no thought-process involved. Giving it some sort of visual that it’s about to happen gives other plays the opportunity to react.

- Eng has a lot of cond pressure it can apply, but it’s balanced. It gets that pressure because of tradeoffs.

-No, you’re not always able to pick up the healing turret. There are also times when you want to pop it on purpose for AOE healing for team mates or for other blast finisher reasons.

-Other professions get things like better access to stability (which eng lacks in general). Eng does have stunbreaks, but few are worth taking due to how the class is set up (utility slots are at even more of a premium) and no stability skill worth taking unless you’re playing some HgH build where you take B (but those builds are pretty bad). It’s not about re-evaluating the build, it’s just how much do you need to give up in order to get these things on the individual classes.

-gear shield is fine on eng because of the lack of stability/stunbreaks in general (same as above). It’s a channeled defense so unlike other classes the eng isn’t hurting you while doing defensive actions… compare that to something like mes who can evade while attacking, guard can pop blocks and still attack, war can pop immunities and still attack (etc.). This isn’t a complaint like zomg why can’t my eng do _ like my _______. It’s just saying it’s all fine because it’s balanced for the specific class.

- since you mentioned physical + cond dmg I presume you’re talking about the celestial eng build and rifle. That’s not the fault of IP, but rather the fault of celest + might. I agree that celest+might needs tweaking; without that celest+might IP + rifle is totally fine (and by fine I mean why would you ever even?). If you just nerf IP you also nerf pistol/shield builds which absolutely needs IP.

As far as auto attack comparisons… there is a wiki for that Feel free to go look at the damage for pistol auto + IP vs. the auto attacks of other classes.

There are plenty of no telegraph procs in this game which can have a larger impact than IP. If you get hit with IP, you can still cleanse off the burning. Randomly losing control of your character due to a fear proc is far worse. IP just gives eng a base cond pressure line.

Aberrant.6749:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

IP trait that applies burning could be changed, just like Dhuumfire was. Sigils such as Battle,Fire,Air, and other things can be shed down or have their mechanics changed.

Not without large changes to the other eng skills to balance it since IP is there to make up for the rubbish aa damage. Dhummfire later added an additional condition to necro, it’s not at all like IP being on eng (which has already been nerfed several times btw). Dhummfire on necro was more akin to eng getting access several stacks of torment (which would be nuts).

In addition to that you want to change air/fire sigils… I guess you like bunker metas?

The reason why Dhuumfire was changed is because you could literally sneeze on someone with Necro and give them burning with RNG principles Same thing applies to IP, but they haven’t changed it yet. I could dodge roll and it can proc burning. Also if you’re saying it’s to make up for AA damage on Engi, then not sure why you would sit on AA damage, that isn’t the main source of damage anyways. If so then something is wrong there. Necros have rubbish auto attacks too, do they sit on auto attacks, and was that the excuse to why Dhuum was changed? No because RNG of the burning application. I actually like the new Dhuumfire, because you can control when you want to put burning. If IP was changed to where you could control the burning, then it could be applied like lets say after when someone pops their condition cleanse. Like if I were to fight a Ranger with Empathethic Bond, I apply burning and then it gets cleansed due to that trait coming off c/d. If we had more control over when the burning procs, then you can use it more strategically.

Wrong and way off guess, I dont’ like bunker meta’s, but I also dont’ like 2 RNG burst procs at the same time. What I meant is to give fire/air a separate c/d again. Sure it’s what still makes S/D teef and other stuff do damage, but it’s kinda ridiculous still and an separate ICD wouldn’t hurt. Like getting hit by 1 Lich AA which procs Air/Fire and Chill of Death.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Aberrant.6749:

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

IP trait that applies burning could be changed, just like Dhuumfire was. Sigils such as Battle,Fire,Air, and other things can be shed down or have their mechanics changed.

Not without large changes to the other eng skills to balance it since IP is there to make up for the rubbish aa damage. Dhummfire later added an additional condition to necro, it’s not at all like IP being on eng (which has already been nerfed several times btw). Dhummfire on necro was more akin to eng getting access several stacks of torment (which would be nuts).

In addition to that you want to change air/fire sigils… I guess you like bunker metas?

The reason why Dhuumfire was changed is because you could literally sneeze on someone with Necro and give them burning with RNG principles Same thing applies to IP, but they haven’t changed it yet. I could dodge roll and it can proc burning. Also if you’re saying it’s to make up for AA damage on Engi, then not sure why you would sit on AA damage, that isn’t the main source of damage anyways. If so then something is wrong there. Necros have rubbish auto attacks too, do they sit on auto attacks, and was that the excuse to why Dhuum was changed? No because RNG of the burning application. I actually like the new Dhuumfire, because you can control when you want to put burning. If IP was changed to where you could control the burning, then it could be applied like lets say after when someone pops their condition cleanse. Like if I were to fight a Ranger with Empathethic Bond, I apply burning and then it gets cleansed due to that trait coming off c/d. If we had more control over when the burning procs, then you can use it more strategically.

Wrong and way off guess, I dont’ like bunker meta’s, but I also dont’ like 2 RNG burst procs at the same time. What I meant is to give fire/air a separate c/d again. Sure it’s what still makes S/D teef and other stuff do damage, but it’s kinda ridiculous still and an separate ICD wouldn’t hurt. Like getting hit by 1 Lich AA which procs Air/Fire and Chill of Death.

It was changed on necro because necro was already the king of condition classes. Adding an aditional strong condition was too much. IP is there to make up for the early changes to the pistol auto attack. IP has been changed multiple times. It used to be an adept trait and used to last longer, but was nerfed. Necro scepter puts out good cond pressure without any traits… not sure if serious about comparing necro’s cond abilities to eng’s cond abilities >.> Without the baseline pressure provided by things like IP on eng and air/fire on thief you’re going to see a bunker meta.

Aberrant.6749:

Arken.3725:

-So in addition to IP, you further solidify my argument.

-Agreed, can’t disagree with the upper-middle tier.

-From personal experience fighting engies, this always happens.

-Every profession is weak to CC that doesn’t have stun-breaks. This isn’t exclusive to the Engineer. If you don’t take stunbreaks, then re-evaluating your build might be best.

-You’ve yet to explain why Gearshield is fine other than a false comparison?

-Look at other forms of AA that applies condi’s, the dmg is rubbish for the return on condition dmg. It makes zero sense to give both physical/condition on an auto that’s strong on both ends.

The hate for IP is because it’s a random crit proc that has very little to no thought-process involved. Giving it some sort of visual that it’s about to happen gives other plays the opportunity to react.

- Eng has a lot of cond pressure it can apply, but it’s balanced. It gets that pressure because of tradeoffs.

-No, you’re not always able to pick up the healing turret. There are also times when you want to pop it on purpose for AOE healing for team mates or for other blast finisher reasons.

-Other professions get things like better access to stability (which eng lacks in general). Eng does have stunbreaks, but few are worth taking due to how the class is set up (utility slots are at even more of a premium) and no stability skill worth taking unless you’re playing some HgH build where you take B (but those builds are pretty bad). It’s not about re-evaluating the build, it’s just how much do you need to give up in order to get these things on the individual classes.

-gear shield is fine on eng because of the lack of stability/stunbreaks in general (same as above). It’s a channeled defense so unlike other classes the eng isn’t hurting you while doing defensive actions… compare that to something like mes who can evade while attacking, guard can pop blocks and still attack, war can pop immunities and still attack (etc.). This isn’t a complaint like zomg why can’t my eng do _ like my _______. It’s just saying it’s all fine because it’s balanced for the specific class.

- since you mentioned physical + cond dmg I presume you’re talking about the celestial eng build and rifle. That’s not the fault of IP, but rather the fault of celest + might. I agree that celest+might needs tweaking; without that celest+might IP + rifle is totally fine (and by fine I mean why would you ever even?). If you just nerf IP you also nerf pistol/shield builds which absolutely needs IP.

As far as auto attack comparisons… there is a wiki for that Feel free to go look at the damage for pistol auto + IP vs. the auto attacks of other classes.

There are plenty of no telegraph procs in this game which can have a larger impact than IP. If you get hit with IP, you can still cleanse off the burning. Randomly losing control of your character due to a fear proc is far worse. IP just gives eng a base cond pressure line.

-What are the trade-offs? You’ve yet to provide any concrete information aside from “it just does.”

-We’re talking stunbreaks, not stability here. Of course other professions have better access to it but that’s not the point here. a 3 second invul on a relatively decent cd is a great stunbreak

-Engineer doesn’t lack stunbreaks, you choose not to run it as said engineer. And making the excuse upon blocks makes no sense when said blocks are mostly one at a time instead of a duration block(ergo, gearshield).

-I was talking about your argument over pistol’s abysmal dmg output and so it needs IP. Again, this applies bleeding so it shouldn’t be able to apply impressive physical dmg as well.

-I don’t need to look at the wiki, my argument was that it still deals condition dmg and a small bit of physical which helps to bury said IP.

Edit: If you’re arguing to keep a completely passive skill that allows the enemy no countermeasure outside of a cleanse, then I have nothing else.

My name is Five Gauge, I use a highly meta build that uses Incendiary Powder in tPvP. It procs once every 10 seconds on something and does 428 damage every second it’s not removed, for 5 seconds.

I think some people need to man the fak up. I have no problem taking twice the Air/Fire damage from crit procs in that 10 second time frame. Crit procs, they’re whatever at this point.

All the berserkers have a ton of crit procs. Engineers have Incendiary Powder. Warriors just cover the continent in fire. Fight a Guardian, dodge the key abilities, and you will probably still be burning. Fight an Ele and you will probably be burning. Look at a Necro funny and you will be CC’d for 3 seconds and take 3k damage by his nightmare runes.

Why can’t people just relinquish control and accept that being able to dodge spam every single point of incoming damage will never happen in GW2. Instead, channel that angst into making intelligent plays, and assuming you will be automatically taking a certain amount of pressure.

Reliable burning and other crit procs get the most hate, but nobody ever appreciates how they are single handedly the reasons why no-risk, never-die builds aren’t successfully cheesing people all day.

Chaith.8256:

My name is Five Gauge, I use a highly meta build that uses Incendiary Powder in tPvP. It procs once every 10 seconds on something and does 428 damage every second it’s not removed, for 5 seconds.

I think some people need to man the fak up. I have no problem taking twice the Air/Fire damage from crit procs in that 10 second time frame. Crit procs, they’re whatever at this point.

All the berserkers have a ton of crit procs. Engineers have Incendiary Powder. Warriors just cover the continent in fire. Fight a Guardian, dodge the key abilities, and you will probably still be burning. Fight an Ele and you will probably be burning. Look at a Necro funny and you will be CC’d for 3 seconds and take 3k damage by his nightmare runes.

Why can’t people just relinquish control and accept that being able to dodge spam every single point of incoming damage will never happen in GW2. Instead, channel that angst into making intelligent plays, and assuming you will be automatically taking a certain amount of pressure.

Reliable burning and other crit procs get the most hate, but nobody ever appreciates how they are single handedly the reasons why no-risk, never-die builds aren’t successfully cheesing people all day.

but cele rifle still need to go tho.

Arken.3725:

-What are the trade-offs? You’ve yet to provide any concrete information aside from “it just does.”

-We’re talking stunbreaks, not stability here. Of course other professions have better access to it but that’s not the point here. a 3 second invul on a relatively decent cd is a great stunbreak

-Engineer doesn’t lack stunbreaks, you choose not to run it as said engineer. And making the excuse upon blocks makes no sense when said blocks are mostly one at a time instead of a duration block(ergo, gearshield).

-I was talking about your argument over pistol’s abysmal dmg output and so it needs IP. Again, this applies bleeding so it shouldn’t be able to apply impressive physical dmg as well.

-I don’t need to look at the wiki, my argument was that it still deals condition dmg and a small bit of physical which helps to bury said IP.

-The tradeoffs being weaknesses to conds, cc, having utility slots compete with each other more so than on other classes due to the lack of a natural weapon swap.

-We were talking about the weakness to cc’s… and stability is a part of that as is how well you can gain access to things. It’s akin to how mesmer has cleansing options but they are harder to get and you give up more for them than on other classes. Just because a class can take XYZ doesn’t mean they can reasonably take XYZ and still perform their role in a team. Sure you can take things on certain classes, but then you’ll be nearly useless and your team will wonder why you even there.

-There are other duration blocks. There are other duration defensive skills that have fewer vulnerabilities than a block and don’t stop you from using other skills or will allow you to attack while performing that defensive skill.

-I do not consider http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fragmentation_Shot to be much of either condition or physical damage and certainly not “impressive physical damage”.

Simon.3794:

Chaith.8256:

My name is Five Gauge, I use a highly meta build that uses Incendiary Powder in tPvP. It procs once every 10 seconds on something and does 428 damage every second it’s not removed, for 5 seconds.

I think some people need to man the fak up. I have no problem taking twice the Air/Fire damage from crit procs in that 10 second time frame. Crit procs, they’re whatever at this point.

All the berserkers have a ton of crit procs. Engineers have Incendiary Powder. Warriors just cover the continent in fire. Fight a Guardian, dodge the key abilities, and you will probably still be burning. Fight an Ele and you will probably be burning. Look at a Necro funny and you will be CC’d for 3 seconds and take 3k damage by his nightmare runes.

Why can’t people just relinquish control and accept that being able to dodge spam every single point of incoming damage will never happen in GW2. Instead, channel that angst into making intelligent plays, and assuming you will be automatically taking a certain amount of pressure.

Reliable burning and other crit procs get the most hate, but nobody ever appreciates how they are single handedly the reasons why no-risk, never-die builds aren’t successfully cheesing people all day.

but cele rifle still need to go tho.

I agree with both of these. Cele + might needs some minor tweaking.

Arken.3725:

Edit: If you’re arguing to keep a completely passive skill that allows the enemy no countermeasure outside of a cleanse, then I have nothing else.

Response to Edit: You might want to just block me then, I might disagree with you in the future as well.

Except we’re talking about a profession with such an ease of burying said burning. The example of both Guardian/Elementalist isn’t as prevalent as Engineer due to the lack of variety thus making it harder for it to stick.

People shouldn’t accept the fact that passive’s are here to stay. Applying burning with off-hand pistol is a MUCH more skillful way to apply burning instead of a random crit-proc. Bringing up the point about other random proc’s isn’t an argument as to why IP should stay the way it is but rather how others should change as well.

Edit: I’m talking about all strong procs, I think a rework would be nice.

Arken.3725:

Except we’re talking about a profession with such an ease of burying said burning. The example of both Guardian/Elementalist isn’t as prevalent as Engineer due to the lack of variety thus making it harder for it to stick.

People shouldn’t accept the fact that passive’s are here to stay. Applying burning with off-hand pistol is a MUCH more skillful way to apply burning instead of a random crit-proc. Bringing up the point about other random proc’s isn’t an argument as to why IP should stay the way it is but rather how others should change as well.

Edit: I’m talking about all strong procs, I think a rework would be nice.

Arken, if it’s as you say, and the reliable burning and on-crit sigils makes the gameplay so skill-less and automated, would you like to talk about alternatives?

When I think of what ‘rework’ means, all I can think of is your suggestions to make Incendiary Powder, or to add examples, Air, Fire, Blood, Generosity, all make your hands glowy or an icon appearing on your bar that cues the enemy to dodge.

To these kinds of reworks, I am very sceptical of.

Doom, Leeching, when I apply these swap-sigil buffs to myself, they’re up for a millisecond and then they’ve already applied to my enemy.

Hypothetically, when somebody is going ham on you from 1200 range with a Mesmer’s Greatsword, and their bar lights up for .000001 seconds with a ‘Air Sigil’ or ‘Fire Sigil’ attack telegraph, is it really going to make the game more skillful? Or would it instead just help Acro Thieves and Mesmers who blanket evade frame all the things when they are in trouble?

What if instead, certain abilities were just off-limits to applying on-crit or on-swap effects? Auto-attacks. I am getting at auto-attacks here.

Wouldn’t that favor many professions heavily? Some professions have tons of long ranged poking abilities no different than auto-attacks. Oh wow, the Longbow Ranger has to connect with Rapid Fire, Hunter’s Shot, or Point Blank Shot? Sounds skillful, and hard, /sarcasm.

On the other hand, some professions can’t deal strong damage while chasing, on fleeing foes relying solely on auto-attacking for mediocre damage, that now don’t proc anything. My underdog berserker static discharge Rifle Engineer with Air/Fire sigils would cry salty tears..

Seriously, show me a good alternative to all this ‘unskillful’ level of guaranteed damage that we absolutely can’t accept.

That’s a very good point Chaith, i’m all for allowing some skills to pull off said procs instead of just AA’s. That’s a solid suggestion my friend. Well again, having some sort of visual notification that some “big hit” is coming would most certainly make it quit a bit more challenging(barring AA’s of course).

I personally also very much dislike IP, as it is in many ways superior to having just more poke damage on your AA, it also enables condition bursts at the start of every fight and added pressure without having to use the AA.

I think if the intention is to improve the damage of the AA, allow it to only proc on #1 skills. That serves its purpose, while giving more control when used intelligently, and mitigates the “free damage” that comes when applied mindlessly.

Or, alternatively, improve engie auto-attacks across the board and nerf IP a bunch. The sustained pressure in a fight is still there if you have better autos, as that is their purpose – I appreciate that need. However, improving the main weapon-kit while nerfing this god-tier trait would also have the added bonus of no longer making it a “required trait” for the engie, improving build diversity! It could also reduce the reliance on kits so that we see more single-kit builds and builds that make use of some of the interesting utilities engies have that they just don’t have use for.

So what if engie auto-attacks automatically applied 1s or 1.5s of burning, and IP doubled the duration or something along those lines?

That would be pretty op Blackbeard. Again, look at Virtue of Justice which requires kittens to pull off 1 second of burning. I think a visual cue is all we need.

Edit: Just to further iterate on the need for adjustments, just because something gets nerfed/buff doesn’t mean you should compensate elsewhere. Sometimes things just need to change by themselves.

Arken.3725:

That would be pretty op Blackbeard. Again, look at Virtue of Justice which requires kittens to pull off 1 second of burning. I think a visual cue is all we need.

The numbers were just examples. Personally, I’d rather an engie be FORCED to use his auto-attack to get that damage rather than get it on a random proc off a random ability. You could even make the duration <1s (before condition duration) so the engie needs to stack up some duration and hit a few autos (untraited) to get the extra damage. The basic premise was: improve the autos to make IP less required, nerf IP.

You have to be smart about it so that the current meta build doesn’t get a net buff (I.E. they still want to take the trait), but every engie build from now to forever doesn’t start with “lets put 20 points in explosives for IP, and….”

Addendum: I don’t think adding a visual queue is the answer, imo for the reasons:

1. If it is still guaranteed to proc on the next crit anyway, you still can’t avoid it. You also can’t tell what attack is going to be the next crit either. If you remove the crit requirement, there is now NO reason for such a condi build to have to give up any defensive stats for even a little precision. Imagine a dire condi engie that still procs IP when that stat-spread eventually makes it to pvp (I hope it doesn’t).

2. The fun part about the combat system is responding to opponent animations. I don’t want high-level play to devolve into furiously watching an opponents bar for a little icon to come up for a split-second so you can dodge the next attack. The attack rate is so high in this game that, kitten pointed out, when you get a doom icon or something, it barely has time to register on your status bar before the poison is already applied.

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

That would be pretty op Blackbeard. Again, look at Virtue of Justice which requires kittens to pull off 1 second of burning. I think a visual cue is all we need.

The numbers were just examples. Personally, I’d rather an engie be FORCED to use his auto-attack to get that damage rather than get it on a random proc off a random ability. You could even make the duration <1s (before condition duration) so the engie needs to stack up some duration and hit a few autos (untraited) to get the extra damage. The basic premise was: improve the autos to make IP less required, nerf IP.

You have to be smart about it so that the current meta build doesn’t get a net buff (I.E. they still want to take the trait), but every engie build from now to forever doesn’t start with “lets put 20 points in explosives for IP, and….”

Ah, my apologies. I’d rather see a lot less of this sustained/condi meta more than ever and having a way to counter with proper position/movement is for the better. A little off-topic: The further away from this condi-meta we get, the better.

I’d imagine that being taken down by a single crit-proc with 1-2 buried condi’s is a bit infuriating especially on the opposite side of the token for burst to apply similar pressure, it needs to be constantly applying damage. Granted everyone should have condi-cleanses but that isn’t the point here. Avoiding strong physical telegraphs is very rewarding, the same should be applied to condition output.

This post makes no sense, because no one one is saying that Engineers are OP at the game.

We are just saying that Engineers are too good at bunkering a point at Conquest (currently).

You suggest introducing new game modes. That is much much less likely than a nerf to turrets.

That is why people are asking for a nerf to turrets:
So that we can play more balanced Conquest games.

Rothem.8174:

This post makes no sense, because no one one is saying that Engineers are OP at the game.

We are just saying that Engineers are too good at bunkering a point at Conquest (currently).

You suggest introducing new game modes. That is much much less likely than a nerf to turrets.

That is why people are asking for a nerf to turrets:
So that we can play more balanced Conquest games.

No top team is using engi to stand on a point because it is not tanky enough to do it for a longer amount of time. Turrets are almost useles vs coordinated teams.

Rothem.8174:

This post makes no sense, because no one one is saying that Engineers are OP at the game.

We are just saying that Engineers are too good at bunkering a point at Conquest (currently).

You suggest introducing new game modes. That is much much less likely than a nerf to turrets.

That is why people are asking for a nerf to turrets:
So that we can play more balanced Conquest games.

Bunkering?

There is a lot that Engineers and their current builds are good at, but no one really uses them for bunkering – unless you mean those Turret Engineers, but even those are not quite as good for bunkering as they get countered by their own Condi or Celestial counterparts…

Though for low tiered play, I guess Turrets could use a shave… It is simply not fun to play against, and it doesn’t promote the actual play of conquest at all (Bunkering is but a part, more important is probably rotating)