Guild Wars 2

1. if all 10 players know each other, there is nothing really anyone can do about this.

2. this one is risky, because they may report you for match manipulation, unless you are on really good terms with them.

3. what is this i don’t even

What stops any of this from happening now?

Have you know I remember this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VyDlzyuZU

If you guys claim Caed is #4 best 1v1, in this video Jumper beats Caed, making him #3 or better 1v1’er.

So I was kinda tempted ya know, rattle the coins. And Sushijr, I remember that guy, hes good too.

See this is how I keep getting kittening losses, terrible kittening matchmaking. 17 losses in a row, 7 losses in a row.

Ya think I found my MMR sweetspot? Nope, they want to put me against these kittenes. Either this game thinks I’m so good to play with these guys, or the PvP community is so tiny, that it puts the bad players against the good players. Pretty kittened up. Also these disconnections when ‘I think the game wants me to win a game’, nope somebody dc’s out and I take a loss than go on some more ‘game wants me to lose’.

Going from 8 games over 50% wins, to 9 games under 50%.

Somedays I don’t even feel like PvPing anymore, so unmotivating to lose game after game, why even play PvP if the game is going to make me LOSE again? I played over 3k games, I know how this PvP works, it’s just the game wants me to LOSE, so why even play? ‘Hey we going to put you with a bunch of newbs, vs a bunch a strong people… Good Luck’… kitten that kitten, I should probably just quit too and make there community even smaller.

You know there twitch during official tournaments? The first tournament wasn’t even hyped, wasn’t all about freebies if you watch the channel, had equivalent or more viewers than the most recent. (First one had 2k+ viewers, most recent, NA had like 1600 viewers). And the most recent was all hyped, all these freebies for PvE’ers come to watch. I bet you that PvP to PvE ratio was a lot bigger in the second one and the first one was pretty much nothing but PvP’ers, with the second one having a lot of PvE’ers you do the math of if the PvP’ers quit.

You only get people to even think about paying someone else for a win if the matchmaking is terrible, like it was in that picture.

You fix matchmaking, you’ll have a lot less people who even think like that.

uberkingkong.8041:

Have you know I remember this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VyDlzyuZU

If you guys claim Caed is #4 best 1v1, in this video Jumper beats Caed, making him #3 or better 1v1’er.

This video is from like a year ago, and Jumper doesn’t even play the game anymore. Plus S/D during that time was stronger than it is now. Pretty sure Caed adapted and knows how to deal with S/D better than a year ago.

The real abuse could be done in the following way:
1) get your mmr really low before ladder season start by intentional losses or whatever
2) once the season start play one game to win, then one game to lose with 400-499 points and so on
3) become #1 in ladder

Justin ODell.9517:

uberkingkong.8041:

Ya think I found my MMR sweetspot?

Redacting your screenshots is good practice from a privacy standpoint, but it makes it a lot harder to confirm and diagnose your matchmaking issue.

Speculating, and assuming this is solo arena from the RP reward, it looks like you were hit by the critical flaw in the current matchmaking.

The current matchmaking was designed for tournaments, not one off games, so it works by forming teams and then matches them against other teams. Jumper X and Sushijr’s team likely had a high MMR forcing them to wait in the queue for a longer amount of time. This kicked in the fail-safes that slowly widened the range of rosters we tried matched against them. Even worse, if there were no other high MMR players, their team would be filled with lower MMR players, lowering their mean MMR, dropping the range even further. Your team was the first that fit the now expanded (and possibly lower) search range. Since it was solo arena, and assuming this sshot is after the change, it tried to shuffle the players between the teams. Unfortunately, no matter how you shuffle that deck, one team will always get 3 players from the higher team. Often that doesn’t matter, but for high MMR teams that have been waiting, it can matter a lot. If the sshot is from before that change, you were just SoL.

Lucky for us all, after Dec 2nd, we’ll be using the new servers and matchmaking which doesn’t work like this at all. I can’t begin to say how happy this makes me. Seeing so many having a hard time because of MM has been a driving force over the last year.

Also, lucky for me, after Dec 2nd, I’ll have much better tools that will let me see your match history, and a lot more, so I can stop speculating and start knowing.

That screenshot was from 11/24/2014 12:55AM CST if you want to look at it further. As you can see my team clearly got outskilled outplayed out MMR’ed.
I am looking forward to Dec 2 patch, wish it was implement right now though. Hate waiting!

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

uberkingkong.8041:

Have you know I remember this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VyDlzyuZU

If you guys claim Caed is #4 best 1v1, in this video Jumper beats Caed, making him #3 or better 1v1’er.

This video is from like a year ago, and Jumper doesn’t even play the game anymore. Plus S/D during that time was stronger than it is now. Pretty sure Caed adapted and knows how to deal with S/D better than a year ago.

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

Why did you even post that video? What the heck is going on ITT about exploitable ladders…

How the hell did you turn this into a Caed vs. Thief who quit long quit the game by using a video from last year? Props.

Chaith.8256:

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

Why did you even post that video? What the heck is going on ITT about exploitable ladders…

How the hell did you turn this into a Caed vs. Thief who quit long quit the game by using a video from last year? Props.

To show everyone how good someone is, because its been awhile. Used it in conjunction with my other evidence. To show the scale of people I’m facing, AFTER losing 17 games in a row than another 9 games in a row.

It’s really disheartening when you get games that everyone is clearly above your skill level.

You may be on the winning side, but a lot of people are losing just as many games as I am, and its clearly not fun at all playing against stacked teams in solo que. Thus making me question myself ‘why do I keep playing PvP if its just going to be another terrible matchup, which will result in a loss’ or ‘it isn’t primetime, I cant have a good matchup’.

Like you notice this is done at nighttime, theres only limited amount of players at night time and what I keep seeing is one team super stack and my team (usually) full of newbs.

All of this is solo que.

Also, this was a thread about people exploiting ladder, and when you see people with skill level like Jumper X (some of you don’t know him, so I posted video of him beating Caed), and Sushijr on other team while your team is full newb. This is one of those perfect scenarios where one super rich dude who knows whose good and whose not good to be pressured into this kind of bad practice mentioned in this thread. Not just 1 good person, but 2 good players and your team, aint nobody worth talking about.

uberkingkong.8041:

Chaith.8256:

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooh we got a Caed fan. Just look at that screenshot, You see Jumper X, you see glorious reward track going on, you see my rank 72 (I sure was no where near 72 back in the days). Jumper X from 2 days ago, better watch out for him. See how he destroyed my team. He going to knock everyone 1 slot down from whoever that preppy popular kid leaderboard is. Going to be Jumper X, Wakkey, Wakkey, Wakkey, than whoever now.
He gonna be Randy Orton, Legend Killer!

Why did you even post that video? What the heck is going on ITT about exploitable ladders…

How the hell did you turn this into a Caed vs. Thief who quit long quit the game by using a video from last year? Props.

To show everyone how good someone is, because its been awhile. Used it in conjunction with my other evidence. To show the scale of people I’m facing, AFTER losing 17 games in a row than another 9 games in a row.

It’s really disheartening when you get games that everyone is clearly above your skill level.

You may be on the winning side, but a lot of people are losing just as many games as I am, and its clearly not fun at all playing against stacked teams in solo que. Thus making me question myself ‘why do I keep playing PvP if its just going to be another terrible matchup, which will result in a loss’ or ‘it isn’t primetime, I cant have a good matchup’.

Like you notice this is done at nighttime, theres only limited amount of players at night time and what I keep seeing is one team super stack and my team (usually) full of newbs.

All of this is solo que.

Also, this was a thread about people exploiting ladder, and when you see people with skill level like Jumper X (some of you don’t know him, so I posted video of him beating Caed), and Sushijr on other team while your team is full newb. This is one of those perfect scenarios where one super rich dude who knows whose good and whose not good to be pressured into this kind of bad practice mentioned in this thread. Not just 1 good person, but 2 good players and your team, aint nobody worth talking about.

I don’t mean to say you wrote 3 posts for nothing.. but

Jumper X’s account is played by his seemingly deaf, dumb, and blind friend of his. The current user of Jumper X is a below average player.

Either way, your anecdotal evidence of you getting a month’s worth of butt kicking in one session holds no meaning. It holds no meaning on even the quality of matchmaking – let alone the potential exploits of the new system which is trying to be discussed.

@ OP,

In the new system, letting somebody score more points on you, but steal beating them of course, that will reduce the gain in MMR you get. I don’t see how that would facilitate cooperation. But like Justin said, selling wins is always going to be fought against.

Not really sure why I was brought up in this, but Jumper dueled me at 3-4am when I had no sleep and he had just woken up. He asked permission to upload that because he knew I played below how I normally duel, but I really couldn’t care less about a few duels. What I’m trying to figure out is why or how this was even brought up.

Narcarsis.5739:

Not really sure why I was brought up in this, but Jumper dueled me at 3-4am when I had no sleep and he had just woken up. He asked permission to upload that because he knew I played below how I normally duel, but I really couldn’t care less about a few duels. What I’m trying to figure out is why or how this was even brought up.

It was cause’ this guy fought that noob on Jumper’s account and thought it was a sign from God that matchmaking in this game is conspiring against him, so he added it to to the pile of ‘evidence.’

Oh dear…

Off original topic, but I wish Jumper would return. I miss his beanie streams, he is a funny guy in his way. Khylo games with nothing but:

“Guys, I need a target mid.”
“Target mid?”
“Target mid, guys!”
“Guys, you’re keeping me out of the mid fight!”

I can’t even be mad at Jumper for introducing S/D to the meta, since Anet made it possible and Caed is at least partly to blame by suggesting he use Lyssa runes, if memory serves.

<3 Humper

Bad old 1v1 videos are bad. This is a Team oriented game. I can beat nearly anyone in a 1v1 fight but that wont make me a tier spvp player or a tier tpvp player. Because this is a team oriented game. Always will be. Until they replace Glicko2 with a more precise skill measuring system rivaling that of any first person shooter, will spvp and 1v1’s ever strive. It wont and never will be.

uberkingkong.8041:

Have you know I remember this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VyDlzyuZU

If you guys claim Caed is #4 best 1v1, in this video Jumper beats Caed, making him #3 or better 1v1’er.

So I was kinda tempted ya know, rattle the coins. And Sushijr, I remember that guy, hes good too.

See this is how I keep getting kittening losses, terrible kittening matchmaking. 17 losses in a row, 7 losses in a row.

Ya think I found my MMR sweetspot? Nope, they want to put me against these kittenes. Either this game thinks I’m so good to play with these guys, or the PvP community is so tiny, that it puts the bad players against the good players. Pretty kittened up. Also these disconnections when ‘I think the game wants me to win a game’, nope somebody dc’s out and I take a loss than go on some more ‘game wants me to lose’.

Going from 8 games over 50% wins, to 9 games under 50%.

Somedays I don’t even feel like PvPing anymore, so unmotivating to lose game after game, why even play PvP if the game is going to make me LOSE again? I played over 3k games, I know how this PvP works, it’s just the game wants me to LOSE, so why even play? ‘Hey we going to put you with a bunch of newbs, vs a bunch a strong people… Good Luck’… kitten that kitten, I should probably just quit too and make there community even smaller.

You know there twitch during official tournaments? The first tournament wasn’t even hyped, wasn’t all about freebies if you watch the channel, had equivalent or more viewers than the most recent. (First one had 2k+ viewers, most recent, NA had like 1600 viewers). And the most recent was all hyped, all these freebies for PvE’ers come to watch. I bet you that PvP to PvE ratio was a lot bigger in the second one and the first one was pretty much nothing but PvP’ers, with the second one having a lot of PvE’ers you do the math of if the PvP’ers quit.

You only get people to even think about paying someone else for a win if the matchmaking is terrible, like it was in that picture.

You fix matchmaking, you’ll have a lot less people who even think like that.

A few duels doesn’t make one player better than another and it definitely doesn’t mean they are good at soloQ (which I assume your picture is from), although Jumper was.

How are we supposed to know the teams are stacked when you block out your own teammates? for all we know your team could have had better players on average.

200-500 isnt even a great example of an uneven or unwinnable match, occasionally games snowball off a few mistakes by individuals (possibly you) to make the games seem less close than the score reflects.

No offence to Sushi but they make a lot of mistakes and throw a lot of games too, they only have a 50% winrate. I don’t think they are a good example of a top player. How was matchmaking supposed to know that sushi would play well this game?

I think the main issue with this matchup is that you had two thieves, a mesmer and you were a dps guard, which causes all your teammates to have to play drastically different than they normally would and is a very all or nothing comp hinging on the squishies abilities to coordinate.

DPS guard in itself is a very all or nothing class, very good if you have map control and very bad if you don’t, mostly due to lack of mobility.

Simple things like you or your teammates switching to another class could have swayed this game. You can ask them to switch or switch yourself, or do what most people do and just don’t get angry at it, it is only solo Q, have some fun, try and win but also realise that sometimes your team comps are just terrible and get better, learn why they are terrible and how you could have played the comp better.

tl;dr your annecdotal ‘evidence’ is kitten m8. Stop blaming matchmaking and 4v5s and you might actually get good.

Justin ODell.9517:

Arty.1738:

The real abuse could be done in the following way:
1) get your mmr really low before ladder season start by intentional losses or whatever
2) once the season start play one game to win, then one game to lose with 400-499 points and so on
3) become #1 in ladder

Glicko2 will up your volatility if you do this, causing your MMR to more rise quickly. It may even overshoot and place you higher than you should be.

In other words, you can’t do it for long, and you may suffer later.

If it does become an issue, we can just disable off season MMR updates.

Step 2) involves loosing every other match during the rated season. MMR should stay the same if I have 50% win rate against the equal opponents.
And there is the way to lose the match without affecting your ladder positioning – you just need to finish with at least 400 points. Since me and my team (you should do it as a team. won’t work for soloq) have low MMR that doesn’t reflect our skill level we will be matched against much weaker teams and we can basically dictate result of the match and consistently have 400+ points every match and intentionally keep win rate around 50%.

Justin ODell.9517:

uberkingkong.8041:

Ya think I found my MMR sweetspot?

Redacting your screenshots is good practice from a privacy standpoint, but it makes it a lot harder to confirm and diagnose your matchmaking issue.

Speculating, and assuming this is solo arena from the RP reward, it looks like you were hit by the critical flaw in the current matchmaking.

The current matchmaking was designed for tournaments, not one off games, so it works by forming teams and then matches them against other teams. Jumper X and Sushijr’s team likely had a high MMR forcing them to wait in the queue for a longer amount of time. This kicked in the fail-safes that slowly widened the range of rosters we tried matched against them. Even worse, if there were no other high MMR players, their team would be filled with lower MMR players, lowering their mean MMR, dropping the range even further. Your team was the first that fit the now expanded (and possibly lower) search range. Since it was solo arena, and assuming this sshot is after the change, it tried to shuffle the players between the teams. Unfortunately, no matter how you shuffle that deck, one team will always get 3 players from the higher team. Often that doesn’t matter, but for high MMR teams that have been waiting, it can matter a lot. If the sshot is from before that change, you were just SoL.

Lucky for us all, after Dec 2nd, we’ll be using the new servers and matchmaking which doesn’t work like this at all. I can’t begin to say how happy this makes me. Seeing so many having a hard time because of MM has been a driving force over the last year.

Also, lucky for me, after Dec 2nd, I’ll have much better tools that will let me see your match history, and a lot more, so I can stop speculating and start knowing.

How exactly will the Dec 2nd patch help this specific problem? If there are only 3 top tier players on, won’t it still just expand the search until you hit terrible players?

I’m pretty sure even after December 2nd patch the problems will still persist because there aren’t enough players and anet is not doing a very good job at bringing players to PvP. In fact the same conquest mode and some changes in PvP would not magically increase already dwindling PvP player base. This actually goes for all WvW/PvP/and dungeoners.
Get more players in PvP first then implement these solutions.

Is going to be RedDay all over again like in Gw1 , if there is something that never changed with this game and gw1 is pvp after a while ppl just start giving away matches for quick wins and insta Qpop ^^. #RedDay#AlloverAgain

Chaith.8256:

Narcarsis.5739:

Not really sure why I was brought up in this, but Jumper dueled me at 3-4am when I had no sleep and he had just woken up. He asked permission to upload that because he knew I played below how I normally duel, but I really couldn’t care less about a few duels. What I’m trying to figure out is why or how this was even brought up.

It was cause’ this guy fought that noob on Jumper’s account and thought it was a sign from God that matchmaking in this game is conspiring against him, so he added it to to the pile of ‘evidence.’

Nothing but a bunch of haters, video is proof, Jumper X beat Caed, excuses excuses excuses, fact is it happened.
See this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Top-15-North-America/first#post4578275
Know I mentioned, the top 15 of a pool 20 constantly? Well obviously Jumper X wasn’t in that pool, along with a bunch of other people.

zELEVENz.6937:

tl;dr your annecdotal ‘evidence’ is kitten m8. Stop blaming matchmaking and 4v5s and you might actually get good.

I don’t blame nothing on 4v5. I know I’ll lose, and I know its 50/50 if I will be the 4v5 or the 5v4.

What I do blame is matchmaking.
I remember when this system came out, about a year ago. When I was playing was playing when it was fresh, and there was things about (people queeing up at sametime to be on same team…. Will this be addressed or will it be abused until the preppy popular kids get to there top 25 by abusing it than start talking about it to make sure nobody else can do the same?)
However point is, I remember games with stacked teams of good players, and I always thought to myself, how kitten they always on same team. I always wanted to be in a game with a good player vs a good player, but its always stacked games, best I’ve seen was 4 good players on one team and bunch mediocre players on the other and before the game even starts somebody says “gg”.

Another thought came to mind, this is only going to be one leaderboard, so I remember the issue back then, was once you get to 600s you start facing premades, so I wont even see stacked solo que teams, it’ll be premades if anything. I’m all for single leaderboards because it gets people to want to party up with people who they played good with though. As for matchmaking, I don’t see it happening much pre 600s due to playerbase. If you look at these preppy popular kids, most of them formed up during this type of system as well. You don’t see many other people into the PvP scene since this separate solo que team que was made.

To the OP, obviously when you get post 600 you will see people you are familiar with, and you will most likely play against the same teams again and again in a row (this is what I remember). Nothing you can really do about it because you qued, and guess what that same team qued again and no other team is qued. If anything there should be an option, quick que or good match que, play previous teams, etc.

The only thing I hope for is that it’s really based on rating and not, if you win a game go up x amount of points. I hope its like if you beat someone 5 ratings higher than you, you go up 6 rating points, if you beat someone 100 ratings higher than you, you go up 50 rating points (they go down 30 points).

One thing about this pvp leaderboards is that losing is too harsh, you need to make losing less harsh and winning more better. This is how you encourage people to keep playing. Like a 70% go up if you win, 30% go down if you lose. If people don’t ticked off by losing (unless its a 17 loss in a row), than people will keep playing and the playerbase will grow, because they are focusing more on having fun than being rated and thinking about how hard a loss hurt them.

uberkingkong.8041:

Chaith.8256:

Narcarsis.5739:

Not really sure why I was brought up in this, but Jumper dueled me at 3-4am when I had no sleep and he had just woken up. He asked permission to upload that because he knew I played below how I normally duel, but I really couldn’t care less about a few duels. What I’m trying to figure out is why or how this was even brought up.

It was cause’ this guy fought that noob on Jumper’s account and thought it was a sign from God that matchmaking in this game is conspiring against him, so he added it to to the pile of ‘evidence.’

Nothing but a bunch of haters, video is proof, Jumper X beat Caed, excuses excuses excuses, fact is it happened.
See this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Top-15-North-America/first#post4578275
Know I mentioned, the top 15 of a pool 20 constantly? Well obviously Jumper X wasn’t in that pool, along with a bunch of other people.

zELEVENz.6937:

tl;dr your annecdotal ‘evidence’ is kitten m8. Stop blaming matchmaking and 4v5s and you might actually get good.

I don’t blame nothing on 4v5. I know I’ll lose, and I know its 50/50 if I will be the 4v5 or the 5v4.

What I do blame is matchmaking.
I remember when this system came out, about a year ago. When I was playing was playing when it was fresh, and there was things about (people queeing up at sametime to be on same team…. Will this be addressed or will it be abused until the preppy popular kids get to there top 25 by abusing it than start talking about it to make sure nobody else can do the same?)
However point is, I remember games with stacked teams of good players, and I always thought to myself, how kitten they always on same team. I always wanted to be in a game with a good player vs a good player, but its always stacked games, best I’ve seen was 4 good players on one team and bunch mediocre players on the other and before the game even starts somebody says “gg”.

Another thought came to mind, this is only going to be one leaderboard, so I remember the issue back then, was once you get to 600s you start facing premades, so I wont even see stacked solo que teams, it’ll be premades if anything. I’m all for single leaderboards because it gets people to want to party up with people who they played good with though. As for matchmaking, I don’t see it happening much pre 600s due to playerbase. If you look at these preppy popular kids, most of them formed up during this type of system as well. You don’t see many other people into the PvP scene since this separate solo que team que was made.

To the OP, obviously when you get post 600 you will see people you are familiar with, and you will most likely play against the same teams again and again in a row (this is what I remember). Nothing you can really do about it because you qued, and guess what that same team qued again and no other team is qued. If anything there should be an option, quick que or good match que, play previous teams, etc.

The only thing I hope for is that it’s really based on rating and not, if you win a game go up x amount of points. I hope its like if you beat someone 5 ratings higher than you, you go up 6 rating points, if you beat someone 100 ratings higher than you, you go up 50 rating points (they go down 30 points).

One thing about this pvp leaderboards is that losing is too harsh, you need to make losing less harsh and winning more better. This is how you encourage people to keep playing. Like a 70% go up if you win, 30% go down if you lose. If people don’t ticked off by losing (unless its a 17 loss in a row), than people will keep playing and the playerbase will grow, because they are focusing more on having fun than being rated and thinking about how hard a loss hurt them.

Who cares, until its Team Name over player name half of the player base doesn’t care, leader-boards are a good place to keep record of how many games you have played. Writing up walls of text with worthless information won’t fix also stop repeating yourself 20 times and telling stories that’s what camp fires are for.

Just saying jumper is terrible right now. The person playing on that account couldn’t possibly be old jumper. How can you be salty of such a mediocre player?

This thread is like watching a guy teach a pack of antelopes to play scrabble….