Guild Wars 2

Why are the benefits of defending a point so low in spvp. It seems like every MMO fails when it comes to balancing points. 20 points for zerging and none for sitting on point defending unless you get kills? Can we get a dev to comment on the reasoning of this?

what about letting custom arenas set their own point allocation.

Personally I thought the reward for defending a point was winning, or at least increasing the chances of a win. So I’ve always seen it as a personal reward/team benefit issue and also part of what makes pvp interesting.

I’ll always prefer a win over points though, so my choice is obvious, but it’s interesting with this mechanic as it makes the play in a particular map less predictable. If point defending had the same rewards as zerging, we’d see a lot less versatility in how ppl play I think.

I can see what your saying but I would argue that there is minimal versatility in current play now. Its all 3+ people zerging from one point to another right now. the points for winning are like… terrible providing little incentive except personal satisfaction. Hardly a motivator if you ask me.

Edit: love your name

Ty But I understand how you feel. I’ve often looked at the score and thought to myself, why do I keep doing this? However, I can really suggest tpvp here. At least there you get a proper reward for winning. In spvp I’ll agree that it seems pointless, especially in the 16 ppl matches where defending a point solo is never going to end well unless everyone forgets the point exists

Zerging should be punished, really is a gimmick playstyle, and promotes cheese gameplay, like reducing everyones exp taken from kills and damage output or something that makes people think “hey, i should not zerging like an idiot here”.

Remove Skirmishing Bonus.
Make capping/uncapping/defending worth more.
Win bonus increase.

I’ve never seen gameplay be rewarding for NOT playing the gametype, why play Conquest when you can get double the points for playing Team Deathmatch?!

The capping uncapping bonus would just be another incentive to zerg i think. they would cap and then run away to cap the next. There should be a reward for sitting on points trying to defend. As of now the defender bonus is meh because speced bunker your not trying to kill but stall. What if there was a timed bonus for sitting on a point when an enemy is also on that point. Like 5 points that would tick every x seconds?

just a suggestion but there has to be a way to increase the incentive. Right now its widely recognized that spvp isnt very fun and spvp is basically the first taste people get of pvp.

Sometimes it seems like Anet doesnt consider many angles when implementing design.

Sunni.2948:

The capping uncapping bonus would just be another incentive to zerg i think. they would cap and then run away to cap the next. There should be a reward for sitting on points trying to defend. As of now the defender bonus is meh because speced bunker your not trying to kill but stall. What if there was a timed bonus for sitting on a point when an enemy is also on that point. Like 5 points that would tick every x seconds?

just a suggestion but there has to be a way to increase the incentive. Right now its widely recognized that spvp isnt very fun and spvp is basically the first taste people get of pvp.

Sometimes it seems like Anet doesnt consider many angles when implementing design.

I agree but if defending, even a failed event, was worth more… I’d stay back and face-tank the zerg to get 20 points.. hopefully giving my team enough time to come back and help. There is no point to defend now, but if I earned more points I would stay back or run over if I saw it being uncapped.

Exactly. I know the chance of change is low but it really seems like a no brainer to try and promote more diverse gameplay. Why would anyone roll bunker/defensive in spvp currently.

and dont get me started on all INSANE amount of cheese builds right now. Its truely startling

For now, just don’t play 16-man hot-joins.

alemfi.5107:

For now, just don’t play 16-man hot-joins.

5 mans too. 3+ people running blindly from point to point

I’ve seen somebody post it before, but the glory/rank gain should just be tied to the final score. Something to the effect of winners receive 50% the final score + a new win streak bonus for tournament play . Losers would receive a smaller % – maybe 20% or so (actual %‘s could be played with here). You could leave or eliminate the top player bonuses. Maybe, just maybe it would help teach players in hotjoin how to play the game more proper (especially with solo queue coming in). I just get a stomachache every time I see a game where blue wins 500-350, but every player on Red received 3x more glory in the match for just zerging. Of course if you bring it up most folks tell you straight up that they don’t care about winning; they just want the glory… wrong?!?

At this point I would say glory/rank should just be tied together, thus making the booster also affect rank gain, but that all links back to the issue of having too many worthless items sitting around (tiger/bear/etc. tokens, glory boosters, orbs, finishers).

Sunni.2948:

and dont get me started on all INSANE amount of cheese builds right now. Its truely startling

I think that is the point the stops me from playing more than my 3 games for my daily per day… I get tired of “oh look another sword/dagger thief”.. “oh look another stun lock warrior” “oh look condi spam necro” <insert every “standard” build here>

There is almost no reason to deviate from the current FotM class or build within that class. I used to get laughed at for playing a necro, now I get told I’m a FotM player…

Kuju.2153:

I’ve seen somebody post it before, but the glory/rank gain should just be tied to the final score. Something to the effect of winners receive 50% the final score + a new win streak bonus for tournament play . Losers would receive a smaller % – maybe 20% or so (actual %‘s could be played with here). You could leave or eliminate the top player bonuses. Maybe, just maybe it would help teach players in hotjoin how to play the game more proper (especially with solo queue coming in). I just get a stomachache every time I see a game where blue wins 500-350, but every player on Red received 3x more glory in the match for just zerging. Of course if you bring it up most folks tell you straight up that they don’t care about winning; they just want the glory… wrong?!?

At this point I would say glory/rank should just be tied together, thus making the booster also affect rank gain, but that all links back to the issue of having too many worthless items sitting around (tiger/bear/etc. tokens, glory boosters, orbs, finishers).

I wrote a post yesterday but deleted it.. and this is exactly what I said. 500-350 match, where our leading scorer had 105 with a WIN, and they had 325 leading scorer with a LOSS.

Make kills worth less, capping slightly more and give people the benefit of actually playing the gametype.

I was also thinking of something along those lines. My thought was a 5:1 (20%) ratio. A win would add 100 points to your score at a minimum and the ratio could increase if you win consecutive matches (20% -1, 30% -3, 60% -5) That’s 100 points for a win at 1, 150 for 3 in a row and 300 for 5 in a row. I believe this would promote winning and playing for the win and decrease the incentive to zerg around for glory…

I understand that winning 5 in a row would put you current over the max score I’ve seen in any match so far, but winning should be rewarded.

I’m only a rank 20 player and don’t have much experience in tPvP, so please feel free to agree/disagree, but if you disagree please explain why.

Id love to get a Devs opinion on this

Sunni.2948:

Id love to get a Devs opinion on this

Me too. The scoring system is really out of whack and doesn’t make sPvP as enjoyable as it should be.

I don’t even cap points when playing sPVP or care about the scoring system. Its a place where i can goof around, kill random people and test builds

Don’t think you can get away from zerging. Its the basic logic to survive-ability ingrained in WvW. Even in tPVP matchs you will see zerging on a small scale.

Maybe not include player kills into the score, and only node cap time and award player-kill glory only to the winning team.

Fenrir.5493:

Zerging should be punished, really is a gimmick playstyle, and promotes cheese gameplay, like reducing everyones exp taken from kills and damage output or something that makes people think “hey, i should not zerging like an idiot here”.

There will always be zergs in a game like this. It was similar in DAoC with the RvR. Nerf zerging bad enough and the people that do it or enjoy it will probably just quit playing WvW.

Personally, I would like to see rallying removed from WvW. I think that is a fair place to start.

zerging you mean like in tpvp when theres 3 minion necro 1 mesmer 1 spirit ranger in a team
and you have to fight like over 10 npcs at once on a point?

Although wvw zergs is a whole issue on its own. I don’t want to take the stance that “that’s the way it is and always will be” innovation is progress. Acceptance is stagnant. If a massive community of people can’t come up with creative solutions id be very surprised. Gw2 with all of its “new” game play and mechanics still reeks of a dying genre.

TGSlasher.1458:

I think that hotjoins could use some change to the rewards system. Currently the only game type available is Conquest yet you earn much more glory playing Team Death match with those trying to play Conquest.

Some ideas:
Reduce the amount of glory and rank gained from killing by 50-80% (2-5 per kill).
-Or- Increase the glory per kill by 50% but split the glory of a kill between the killers. If 8 people are responsible for your death, they all get less glory for the kill but if 1 person defeats 1 person then they get more then they currently would.

Increase the amount of glory for playing the Conquest game type. How? For each point your team controls, earn x glory per x seconds. The more points you control the more glory / rank income you earn.

Add incentives such as: Earn double glory / rank when capturing an enemy point while you have an ally on another point in your control.

Boost the win bonus for players that worked towards the objective and not just mindlessly zerged.

Basically they need to push more for the game type the want us to play, and reduce the Zerging TDM that people are using to farm rank.

just get rid of 8v8

I think I’d rather a bonus based on score for winning and losing then individual scoring. As someone who covers home point I am always sacrificing getting more points because I’m not in the large fights getting lots of kills compared to others.

DevO.9854:

I think I’d rather a bonus based on score for winning and losing then individual scoring. As someone who covers home point I am always sacrificing getting more points because I’m not in the large fights getting lots of kills compared to others.

This is what I hate.. someone willingly sacrifices points for the good of team, yet you aren’t rewarded in the slightest. These are the guys I want to play with.

Thesilentflute.8761:

just get rid of 8v8

This happens in 5v5…

If they gave you points for sitting on a cap, then you’d see hotjoin farmers have zergs that sit on cap and get 300 points every game.

Its too easy exploited, if your doing nothing you get nothing that’s how I see it. Unfortunately life as bunker is doing nothing that’s why many solo que’ers don’t play bunker because they have that itch to always be doing something even if it means going far after you beat everyone at mid and get there kitten wooped 1v5, 2v5 style. “where they at? oh well I’ll go far… omg nobody helped me, if you guys helped me I’d won that 1v5”

I think that players should get 25%-50% of their teams total score in Tournaments. winning team gets 125-250 glory which ever applies. In a tight match both teams will be rewarded well and teams that get run over don’t get much.

devs could choose which % they like best.

uberkingkong.8041:

If they gave you points for sitting on a cap, then you’d see hotjoin farmers have zergs that sit on cap and get 300 points every game.

Its too easy exploited, if your doing nothing you get nothing that’s how I see it. Unfortunately life as bunker is doing nothing that’s why many solo que’ers don’t play bunker because they have that itch to always be doing something even if it means going far after you beat everyone at mid and get there kitten wooped 1v5, 2v5 style. “where they at? oh well I’ll go far… omg nobody helped me, if you guys helped me I’d won that 1v5”

Not sitting ON a cap point, but actively defending it from attackers, there is a big difference. Yes I agree, sitting out of combat on a cap point shouldn’t give points, but defending it should reward you better than it does.