Guild Wars 2

Adris.1859:

Being Anet employee that cares about PvP must be the most frustrating job ever made.

Admires Justin sincerely.

Honestly, I believe right now that the community could collectively balance the game faster and better than ANet could, if Anet put knobs into custom arenas to allow players to adjust the parameters for skills and traits.

You can do it. Hang in there, Justin! http://www.jokedujour.com/barn/hang-in-there.jpg

Poor goat. How did it get up there?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Honestly, I believe right now that the community could collectively balance the game faster and better than ANet could, if Anet put knobs into custom arenas to allow players to adjust the parameters for skills and traits.

You can do it. Hang in there, Justin! http://www.jokedujour.com/barn/hang-in-there.jpg

After watching “twitch plays pokemon”, I think, even this might be a more efficent way to balance the game, than ANet is handeling it.

Saying pvp is dead is pretty silly. There’s been a huge surge in pvp players since the December patch. You can place the cause of that on WvW or whatever, but the facts are the facts. Yes, pvp is in a very poor state, and has been for several months as many suggest, but saying it is dead is blatantly false.

garethh.3518:

MailMail.6534:

The pvp community is so toxic.

Uhm, that’s what happens when any game is dying.
People act kitteny when a game is dying.

The community wasn’t near so bad around launch, actually the community was the best community I’ve ever seen around launch (constant thought out well meaning posts, the community in general actually scoffed-at/downvoted/ignored anyone saying anything bad about the game or the devs).

Right now the ball is in Anet’s court, if they want to bring that good community back, they easily can, they just have to make GW2 a game worth supporting…

Forsaker.9213:

Justin ODell explain me how we the community can take u serious?

What we got since realese?
-broken leeder?
-broken solo que?
-power creep?
-no skill killing michine wars?
-no skill condi spam necros?
-no skill mm necros?
-no skill stealth mesmers?
-no skill zoo rangers?
-maps that are not even balanced?
-ton of bugs since reales w8 for fix till now?
-and more more more more more….
-broken matchmaking?

How? Tell me how? Company like anet can act like that , ignoring us the community , u dont listen to feedback . I playied a lot of diffrent games and this is 1st game when the crew responsible for balance/designe dont listen to feedback.Tell me how often u visit class forums? We had post from dev on necro forum few months ago , so until u dont start to respect us dont think we the community gonna respect u.

EDIT:
One more thing how can u even let in this game to chain CC? ITs not funny when u are stuned,dazed,feard,knocked,stun,dazed,imob,feard,knocked,dazed,stuned………………………………………………………………………………..

Great point at the end! Most games once you are hit with a type of CC you are immune for a few seconds. Great point!

Thedenofsin.7340:

Justin, I like you. You have balls. I like balls.

If only Justin was rank 80.

Justin ODell.9517:

@Sensotix.4106

We didn’t promise anything, we shared our high level road-map plans.

This is why we don’t like sharing dates. I know you’re waiting on things, and the wait is driving me crazy too, but saying we made promises when we clearly did not does not help get the content out sooner.

If you want greater transparency, like I do, then you must accept that dates, features, and plans are not a static promise. Things can happen to shift priorities, dates, or designs, causing things to changed, be pushed back, or accelerated.

Please stop.

/personal rant

A majority of players understand that development takes time and is due to setback. But without being transparent about your upcoming plans is snubbing that community of intelligent, rational people—and leaves room only for doubt.

To an intelligent community that understands your plight, your message is received thusly:

“We cannot be sure how some silly people will react. So we will cater to the silly people and not tell you anything.”

We live in an age of information. In the world with internet, people feel slighted when learning that they are being intentionally left in the dark. The archaic model of ’don’t ask, don’t tell’ is dead.

Transparency. Give the player-base the information to respect your decisions—and you will be pleasantly surprised by their response

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Transparency. Give the player-base the information to respect your decisions—and you will be pleasantly surprised by their response

You’re being crazy.
Transparency means nothing.

If people knew months in advance what was going to happen, if Anet was letting players know their balance philosophy and how they were designing features to work and how they would never take a feature past alpha…
The only thing that would have happened is that more people would have left the game sooner.

What you want, what you should want since you already bought the game is for Anet to make better patches, and a way to do that relates to transparency is to be more collaborative in their development.
I’m not saying their attempt at that is working. Their ‘CDI’ topics are a joke.

I was gonna post something too but Thedenofsin.7340 and manveruppd.7601 already covered my exact same points, in a beautiful and constructive way, something that 4 months ago I would have been able to write, but not anymore due to the “rot” getting to me.

However, I would like to add the fact that I do understand a little how it is dealing with this. Having worked in costumer service for a few years I can relate with being blamed for everything even when there is nothing you can do, or any way the problem can be related to you. But you have to understand our frustration;

CDI feel like giant venting threads made to appease the plebs.
Repeatedly we are told the “forums are a small minority” yet you keep saying that our feedback is important, that we have implemented changes. Well, I dont see it that way, call me cynic but I believe the “changes” we as a community passed on the game are no more than your own ideas which we also came up with at some point.

We feel like toddlers, with overprotective, overshadowing and condescending granparents. “Thats nice, dear”.

Problems which have been talked about, suggested solutions, but nothing has been done around (as noted by the previous thread);

-Spamming conditions (low CD, high damage, nearly unconterable)
-AI spam (I came to play PvP, not PvE)
-Stealth spam, blind spam, backstab spam, teleport spam. Nobody enjoys laying agaisnt thieves, nobody. Most people reroll thieves out of neccessity (see the last 3 pro mesmer players who did it, 1 ele)
-Elementalists being the underdog of the game, since basically ever.
-Powercreep
-Warriors faceslam
-Elementalists, elementalist, elementalists.

W/e the case, this thread will probably go unnoticed and will definitely probably have no effect whatsoever except to “vent” fumes from the community.

ArenaNet Developers need to understand that when we complain, it also means we care.
My 10+ infractions means I care a lot. That’s not a joke. It may seem I hate the developers, which is not true, I love them, I just hate the decisions.

What I don’t understand why ArenaNet doesn’t mix living world with balance?

Just recently WvW was involved with the living world, it’s time for sPvP to do the same.

As game developers ArenaNet, you need to step back and examine every mechanic closely and determine if it is good, bad or ugly.

I can tell you for a fact, traits can be removed entirely for a different system that can be more fun, more engaging and more freedom for balancing.

Look at League of Legends, they went through plenty of mechanics changes. THERE IS NO SHAME! Roit knows full well when they kitten hard, admit their kitten s ON CAMERA and they have the most played game of all time.

Don’t treat us like we are toxic, don’t treat us like we are a massive group. Don’t be afraid to talk to us individually and often. We bite but it’s because we don’t want to let go. Embrace the loving pain XD

I must say, if the developers were to occasionally admit their mistakes, I wouldn’t be bothered by said mistakes, because admitting them is simply the most honest and mature thing to do, which earns respect.

kylwilson.9137:

I must say, if the developers were to occasionally admit their mistakes, I wouldn’t be bothered by said mistakes, because admitting them is simply the most honest and mature thing to do, which earns respect.

They don’t admit anything because they have no plans on changing

Justin ODell.9517:

We will have more news soon™

and there it is XD

since 2012 everything has been “exciting new features, coming soon.™
“balance patch we’ll really enjoy, coming soon.™
“we’re really excited about what we have in the works! coming soon.™
after a year of "soon"™, very little has changed.

So, today I finally realized, why the next PvP Update will be a fail. No matter when it comes.

My arguments:

What do (at least) I expect of the next Update?:

1. Proper Balancing
2. A new Gamemode
3. Improved Reward system

Reasons for this:
I don’t think, I have to tell anybody here, why proper balancing is necessary. Nr 3 was already announced by ANet. So only Nr. 2 is left. A new Gamemode is needed, as even if there will be good balancing and a working reward system, sPvP will still only have 1 Game mode with ~4 “good” maps. I think, most peaple are already sick and tired of Conquest and playing the same maps over and over. So balancing and the rework system wont be enough for getting the players excited again, at least for long terms.

So, why will the next Update be a fail?
I have those 3 requirements. Every Bullet point mostly can be developed separately. Regarding this, it seems pretty unrealistic, that all of them will be finished at the same time.
Looking at the state of PvP and the critics, I don’t see a reasons, why ANet would publish one of those things, as soon as it is ready.
This finally means, that none of the things in my list is finished, yet and considering it unrealistic, that they all are finished at the same time, the next update probably wont include all 3.
However, as I already stated, why I would demand all of them, it means that the next update will be a fail. At least for me.

And I haven’t even mentioned concerns about the quality of the next balancing patch or the reward system.

To the people saying “omg the community is so toxic such entiled spoiled brats etc…”

I PAYED FOR THE GAME, I BOUGHT IT FOR THE PVP SYSTEM THEY ANNOUNCED!

IT IS NOT MY FAUL THEY CHOSE TO NOT USE A SUBSCIPTION FEE METHOD AND NOW ONLY CATTER TO WVW AND PVE BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE MONEY IS.

You go to the restaurant get an hamburger and it comes half eaten stinking and rubbed on the floor, you tell the management and they say “ohh we know we are trying to work it out… soon” and THEN comes the whight knight custumer, “Ohh such entitlement!! You eat what you get and just shut up,just like the rest of us!”

Slacked jaw mentality…

Hey sensotix I havent been playing GW2 for 1-2 months now in the hope that something would happen, the only thing I did was exploring the new WvW map but I soon realized its just a fancy map with nothing really new, a few days ago I finally uninstalled the game and I couldnt agree more with what you said.

Its to bad but its just the way it is, I remember introducing some new game modes last year, we are March for god sake and it doesnt look like anytime soon there will be change, there is just no incentive to play.

I remember talking to you sensotix a couple of months ago and from the look of your topic you finally reached that state of “almost” giving up on the game.

gz

Guys, guys.. it’s not a promise unless they say it’s a promise!

eg.

• ‘Hey guys we are going to implement this in the second half of 2013’
  ALARM BELLS!! This is not a promise! This is just friendly banter!

• ’Hey guys we have a promise for you, we are going to implement this in the second half of 2013, we promise.

Total promise!

Word games guys, this is the new spvp. Or should I say wpvp. One of the new finishers for word games pvp includes summoning a giant quotation mark to come crashing down from the sky and finish your enemies.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Don’t treat us like we are toxic, don’t treat us like we are a massive group. Don’t be afraid to talk to us individually and often. We bite but it’s because we don’t want to let go. Embrace the loving pain XD

I got banned for saying that listening isn’t collaborating and development involves more than brainstorming.

In short.
They really don’t want forum input.
They just want it to look like they want it.
:’(

Drafigo.4690:

Forsaker.9213:

Justin ODell explain me how we the community can take u serious?

What we got since realese?
-broken leeder?
-broken solo que?
-power creep?
-no skill killing michine wars?
-no skill condi spam necros?
-no skill mm necros?
-no skill stealth mesmers?
-no skill zoo rangers?
-maps that are not even balanced?
-ton of bugs since reales w8 for fix till now?
-and more more more more more….
-broken matchmaking?

How? Tell me how? Company like anet can act like that , ignoring us the community , u dont listen to feedback . I playied a lot of diffrent games and this is 1st game when the crew responsible for balance/designe dont listen to feedback.Tell me how often u visit class forums? We had post from dev on necro forum few months ago , so until u dont start to respect us dont think we the community gonna respect u.

EDIT:
One more thing how can u even let in this game to chain CC? ITs not funny when u are stuned,dazed,feard,knocked,stun,dazed,imob,feard,knocked,dazed,stuned………………………………………………………………………………..

Great point at the end! Most games once you are hit with a type of CC you are immune for a few seconds. Great point!

man today in 1 game i got dazed-stuned-feard-imob in the same time , was realy fun

Lets be real game where team/company who is responsible for balance will never achive anything good when dont listen to feedback , thats why there are alfa/beta tests and here anet dont listen to us to it wont get better , so many games failed becouse of that and now GW2 gonna join them , the best thing is when they say " we have no recourse" , Devs i have a lot od wood from salvaging pvp items , i can give u if u want.

garethh.3518:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Don’t treat us like we are toxic, don’t treat us like we are a massive group. Don’t be afraid to talk to us individually and often. We bite but it’s because we don’t want to let go. Embrace the loving pain XD

I got banned for saying that listening isn’t collaborating and development involves more than brainstorming.

In short.
They really don’t want forum input.
They just want it to look like they want it.
:’(

They just want sycophants. Now buy gems.

Brutal Arts.6307:

garethh.3518:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Don’t treat us like we are toxic, don’t treat us like we are a massive group. Don’t be afraid to talk to us individually and often. We bite but it’s because we don’t want to let go. Embrace the loving pain XD

I got banned for saying that listening isn’t collaborating and development involves more than brainstorming.

In short.
They really don’t want forum input.
They just want it to look like they want it.
:’(

They just want sycophants. Now buy gems.

All is not vain Play and have fun or take a break! best advise Iv gotten in a long time from a Dev. Everyone just needs to take a chill pill and stop treating the Dev’s like they are all the control for what happens on this game. There are guys and gals above them sending marching orders down. I am sure something is coming because they are ending this current story so some focus can be shifted. Take a break if you need to lets stop beating the Dev’s up over and over again.

All is not vain! Take a break!

Well at least they have time to see what professions also need some fix. Hope they fix them all and not only one or two.

Forsaker.9213:

Drafigo.4690:

Forsaker.9213:

Justin ODell explain me how we the community can take u serious?

What we got since realese?
-broken leeder?
-broken solo que?
-power creep?
-no skill killing michine wars?
-no skill condi spam necros?
-no skill mm necros?
-no skill stealth mesmers?
-no skill zoo rangers?
-maps that are not even balanced?
-ton of bugs since reales w8 for fix till now?
-and more more more more more….
-broken matchmaking?

How? Tell me how? Company like anet can act like that , ignoring us the community , u dont listen to feedback . I playied a lot of diffrent games and this is 1st game when the crew responsible for balance/designe dont listen to feedback.Tell me how often u visit class forums? We had post from dev on necro forum few months ago , so until u dont start to respect us dont think we the community gonna respect u.

EDIT:
One more thing how can u even let in this game to chain CC? ITs not funny when u are stuned,dazed,feard,knocked,stun,dazed,imob,feard,knocked,dazed,stuned………………………………………………………………………………..

Great point at the end! Most games once you are hit with a type of CC you are immune for a few seconds. Great point!

man today in 1 game i got dazed-stuned-feard-imob in the same time , was realy fun

Lets be real game where team/company who is responsible for balance will never achive anything good when dont listen to feedback , thats why there are alfa/beta tests and here anet dont listen to us to it wont get better , so many games failed becouse of that and now GW2 gonna join them , the best thing is when they say " we have no recourse" , Devs i have a lot od wood from salvaging pvp items , i can give u if u want.

People got kicked out of the Alpha for saying negative things about the game, for e.g. future aspects that can turn into problems (especially concerning conquest).

Nowadays test-servers are offline. The development refuses to accept the fact, that they have no idea about their own game. Instead of getting help, they try so hard to get the turn-around (which obviously will result in more problems → see last patches).

The ignorance of A-Net was stated druing the Alpha couple of times, when it came down criticism from the testers. I mean look at the forum. Ignoring the community and do it their own way is just one of many points (see immobilize-stacking, dhuumfire etc.). Things never ever suggested get implemented into the game, while good suggestions from experienced players were left out.

Lol I saw that stuff last year, it’s a shame really. But it’s part of the reason why some important people left ANET before the game shipped and shortly after

clint.5681:

Lol I saw that stuff last year, it’s a shame really. But it’s part of the reason why some important people left ANET before the game shipped and shortly after

That stuff I quoted was from about 2 weeks ago.

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

Lol I saw that stuff last year, it’s a shame really. But it’s part of the reason why some important people left ANET before the game shipped and shortly after

That stuff I quoted was from about 2 weeks ago.

People were posting links to that same site a year~ ago.
Employees were saying the same sort of kitten then.
(bad management, bad pay, wasted time, exc.)

garethh.3518:

Thedenofsin.7340:

clint.5681:

Lol I saw that stuff last year, it’s a shame really. But it’s part of the reason why some important people left ANET before the game shipped and shortly after

That stuff I quoted was from about 2 weeks ago.

People were posting links to that same site a year~ ago.
Employees were saying the same sort of kitten then.
(bad management, bad pay, wasted time, exc.)

Yup

Thedenofsin.7340:

And this is the result – a bad product.

Meh, they easily could have kitten out a decent game, even with all the company wide issues.

The problem, the core problem, was that the GW1 guys REALLY wanted to innovate the genre, alone…
If instead they were really good at taking player feedback or stuck with what worked, taking any other game and just tweaking/expanding on it to make a GW’ey feel to it, they easily could have had a decent MMO… but they didn’t.
Creating a system from scratch, attempting to revolutionize a genre, requires allot of time, money, intelligent people and allot of freedom; and NCSoft doesn’t seem the right company to do that under.

NCSoft probly cut funding half way through, that’d explain why the game was released missing so many features with an alpha version of the map and classes.

Personally I think NCSoft might have made the right call though. I can’t see them getting much more of a return off of any greater of an investment in GW2, short of by pushing for a real cash shop or hiring new devs (if after two years, a game gets worse… not just progresses slowly, but consistently gets worse off with each patch… that’s a dev-related issue)

Well at least their QA makes more than some retail positions say TJX, which does explain a few things.

now this thread just got interesting. you think maybe we have been going about it all wrong guys?

that glass door review was a good and thought provoking read

maybe this is the stuff we need to talk about and bring to light, not just the issues with spvp. pretty much attacking the very source of why spvp gets no development or attention.

sadly though this thread will be deleted due PR reasons and how deep it really cuts to the core issue. I would like to hear A-nets thoughts on this but will most likely never happen due to non-disclosures.

my advice though would be for the people who still really care about spvp, to never stop talking about this and the issues that glass door review brings up.

the penn is mightier you just need to be heard and the loudest.

Kline.9561:

the penn is mightier you just need to be heard and the loudest.

The dollar is mightier than the pen.

Quote from glassdoor reviem -Feb 9th ’14

“Pros:
[…]
-Community teams are amazing at communicating with the players and overall fan base”

-Wut?!

Have fun waiting for Godot. He’ll be coming soon™, promise.

Be careful mentioning the Glassdoor-Reviews as stated in this thread here.
Just to let people know.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Kline.9561:

the penn is mightier you just need to be heard and the loudest.

The dollar is mightier than the pen.

then your not being loud enough or the right people are not hearing you. “find the right people,” there are more information outlets than just these forums

“if the sword weighs heavy upon the Pen then turn your Pen into a sword”

Thedenofsin.7340:

Kline.9561:

the penn is mightier you just need to be heard and the loudest.

The dollar is mightier than the pen.

But the swordpen is mightier than either! (Though now as mighty as the hambowpen)

manveruppd.7601:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Kline.9561:

the penn is mightier you just need to be heard and the loudest.

The dollar is mightier than the pen.

But the swordpen is mightier than either! (Though not as mighty as the hambowpen)

HAMBOWPEN OP! it needs its signet of healing ink Nerfed

I spend more time scoping the forums for a glimmer of a brighter future than I do playing pvp anymore……

I think anet bit of more than they can chew with this game. They should have gone the GW1 and just made it a heavily instance game because this just show they don’t have the resources to maintain a MMO.

I would have gladly taken a heavily instance game with actual content that this sad and depressing “game” we have now.

I hope they hired a lot of people from that Irrational games function or w/e the hell it was, because they clearly need more people.

kylwilson.9137:

I must say, if the developers were to occasionally admit their mistakes, I wouldn’t be bothered by said mistakes, because admitting them is simply the most honest and mature thing to do, which earns respect.

I bolded the important part.

With this Living World season freaking finally over, I pray that ArenaNet will take a step back and rethink their entire stance.

When you create something, spend years on it, it’s hard to admit it has flaws.

Guild Wars 2 content cannot improve until the developers can say, “this needs major rework.”

Little anecdote:

A friend of mine got fired because he improved a system at his job that made things more efficientfor all people working under him, but then dared to mention implementing it it to a regional manager.
2 months late he was let go because “a worker shouldn’t have critisism about his work”
Progression and suggestions often come over as critisism to the people trying to hide their own incompetence.

That’s company policy in advertisement for you..

Year and half passed by and they can’t even fix 4vs5 issue…. That tells you everything on how hard they are working on PvP improvement… GJ Anet

sigh………. sigh sighhhhhhhhhhh sighhhhhhhhhhhhh

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Little anecdote:

A friend of mine got fired because he improved a system at his job that made things more efficientfor all people working under him, but then dared to mention implementing it it to a regional manager.
2 months late he was let go because “a worker shouldn’t have critisism about his work”
Progression and suggestions often come over as critisism to the people trying to hide their own incompetence.

That’s company policy in advertisement for you..

“Advertising is legalized lying.”

H.G. Wells

So many mouths moving
So little words

tronjeremy.5820:

I spend more time scoping the forums for a glimmer of a brighter future than I do playing pvp anymore……

Wtb tin foil hat this kitten is in my head! – http://static.businessinsider.com/image/51b8d11eeab8ead74c000019/image.jpg

A lot of people here have been complaining about communication, but let’s examine it from Anet’s prospective.

Let’s assume anet decides to be open right now, here are 2 thigns that are going to happen.
1 players are happy. 2. Players are mad it is too far away.

1a. looking at previous history players on the forums are going to be happy at most for a week then the usual QQ about not being open comes back or how long they taking and how little devs care about PvP (which it is true in terms of resources).

2a. same as 1a players are mad. and keep making new threads about how PvP is dead.

So in both cases overall nothing really changed, forum PvPers are still mad and still making angry thread.

Let’s look at the current situation. Say nothing and then release a lot of information at once with a short future release date. Players are excited and all the animosity temporary goes away, until a couple of hours after said patch. Another thing to consider, a lot of you guys have been here for 2 years (including beta), the fact that you are still here means no matter what they do, you are still sticking with them. Essentially, by saying absolutely nothing they can string you along for the ride. Some might argue but I quit, but if you did quit why do you bother on the game forums?

Personally, given how quiet they have been I think the release date for this “feature” patch is going to be on may 6th. Why May because it is exactly 1 month after the release of ESO and during that time period in may, Anet will be talking about all those nice changes guild wars 2 is going to get (this is more so for the PvE side, since the PvE side is the breadwinner).

garethh.3518:

Thedenofsin.7340:

And this is the result – a bad product.

Meh, they easily could have kitten out a decent game, even with all the company wide issues.

The problem, the core problem, was that the GW1 guys REALLY wanted to innovate the genre, alone…
If instead they were really good at taking player feedback or stuck with what worked, taking any other game and just tweaking/expanding on it to make a GW’ey feel to it, they easily could have had a decent MMO… but they didn’t.
Creating a system from scratch, attempting to revolutionize a genre, requires allot of time, money, intelligent people and allot of freedom; and NCSoft doesn’t seem the right company to do that under.

NCSoft probly cut funding half way through, that’d explain why the game was released missing so many features with an alpha version of the map and classes.

---

Personally I think NCSoft might have made the right call though. I can’t see them getting much more of a return off of any greater of an investment in GW2, short of by pushing for a real cash shop or hiring new devs (if after two years, a game gets worse… not just progresses slowly, but consistently gets worse off with each patch… that’s a dev-related issue)

Considering that the thing sustaining guild wars 1 was the PvE side and not the PvP aspect, Ncsoft made the right call assuming what you said is true, but I don’t think so.

I think guild wars 2 was release because they was no major MMORPG that was coming out in late 2012, so they could maximize their box sales. What I think actually happen is that, the overall game did not work out as Anet had hoped. If you look at the changes from the PvE side of things and compare it with their pre-release language their original vision totally failed and now they have been trying to fix the core game (PvE) and everything else probably got pushed aside including PvP, resources wise.

For the life of me I don’t understand why people allow themselves to be constantly strung along. For pete’s sake they just recently put a collaborative thread about ladders and seasons something they first talked about at least half a year ago. This tells me that development on it has not really started. When does the point come when you start saying I am not going to wait for 9 month-1+ year development cycles for standard features. I quit playing about a month and a half ago and I haven’t been happier. I may come back if and when these far flung promises get implemented. I’m thinking late summer or fall for all of these things to be in at the earliest.