Guild Wars 2

the loathing for this feature is so prevalent in the vast majority of players that have tried GW2 pvp and didn’t like it. The GW2 pvp population isn’t very big and it just makes me wonder how much bigger it would have been if they went a different direction on the downed state thing.

Downed state and addons. This pvp would probably blow up. Add in some controller support and put it on the new consoles as well.

Please re-title this “Imagine if this game were the same as every other game instead of being unique and interesting.”

Firebird.8324:

Please re-title this “Imagine if this game were the same as every other game instead of being unique and interesting.”

+1, only because the forums limit me to a single feature in which I can point out the correct sentiment in a thread.

Firebird.8324:

Please re-title this “Imagine if this game were the same as every other game instead of being unique and interesting.”

+1.
Oh and if you ever played or watched a vid of the old Reapers Rumble mini game from the previous Halloween, you would see what this game would be like without downstate.

being unique does not equal a good thing.

not sure why people just +1 like he made so much sense

there are tons of bad games with unique bad stuff…

Without holy trinity aka healer and tank, downstate is viable because a group of 5 dps running around and killing each other has no sustain in a fight if they cannot get each other up once they have fallen. Likewise it makes it so both groups have to keep a large amount of damage up to keep people down, this creates a fantastic balance between sustain and damage.

Also, this is a core game mechanic, so do you really think this post was worth ANYONE’s time?

Firebird.8324:

Without holy trinity aka healer and tank, downstate is viable because a group of 5 dps running around and killing each other has no sustain in a fight if they cannot get each other up once they have fallen. Likewise it makes it so both groups have to keep a large amount of damage up to keep people down, this creates a fantastic balance between sustain and damage.

Also, this is a core game mechanic, so do you really think this post was worth ANYONE’s time?

Radioactive does rely heavily on banners and mercy runes to keep you up. I see your point.

I firmly believe that the direction Anet went, in terms of developing the mechanics of gw2, was fundamentally driven by their experiences with the first game.

Landing a kill in the first game was a huge deal. So much so that it was virtually mandatory to bring some type of resurrection skill in order to not lose any ground. This significantly restricted certain skillbars. So in response, it seems like they just implemented it as sort of like a “phase” that you have to work around when someone dies, but everyone has the potential to res a person naturally.

Another problem was the “build wars” mentality that the first game developed, and even further strengthened, in its later years. One of the most effective ways to deal with one-trick-pony builds was to effectively split push. I think they realized this and tried to run with it. I think it lead to them enforcing smaller-sized teams (5 man teams instead of 8 man teams) and a focus on capture points.

Another problem was how long the games were. Victory or Death, if I remember correctly, wasn’t in the original incarnation of the game. Victory or Death is a situation when, at a certain time in a GvG, all the npc’s that are in each teams base would make a dash for the center of the map. Then the guild lord would follow suit, slowly marching to the middle of the map. The first team who got overwhelmed, and had their guild lord killed, lost. It was brought about because people could be in a match for literally 45 mins to an hour not making any headway at all. There were legit complaints about aegis stacking by monks (an enchantment spell that granted everyone on the team about 10 seconds of 50% chance to block, each monk would take aegis and just alternate it between the two). It lead to things like burning arrow ranger becoming popular because the ranger was known to split push the enemy base to quickly burn down npcs. This would prepare for Victory or Death (less NPC’s on the other team means advantage). In any case, since the matches lasted so long, I’m sure this persuaded them to try a “point-ticker” type system, and now we have games which rarely last 15 mins.

So, ironically enough (whether they were successful with it or not), they probably developed and tried to improve upon the last game due to what they knew where the problems/complaints.

Firebird.8324:

Please re-title this “Imagine if this game were the same as every other game instead of being unique and interesting.”

Said the guy who abuses warbanners and mercy runes. Not you but your team.

Downstate makes the game more interesting.

no downed state – no teamwork

I will give you 1000 gold if you can prove statistically that it is in fact a vast majority of players that hate downstate as much as you

I love the downstate mechanics, they promote real teamwork and coordination during fights, whether to secure or prevent a stomp. Plus they encourage real build variation, because every class has something unique to offer in that field.

I think the OP would be surprised how few people share his “loathing” for the downed state. I’ve never heard anyone complain about it (except in terms of how OP rangers’ downed state is :p ), and I think most people recognise that it’s an inextricable part of the game.

What I do agree with is that most people who are new to pvp are completely turned off by it, because nothing in pve has prepared them for it. Probably nothing in wvw either, since downed corpses die in milliseconds in big zerg fights. You learn how to revive people in pve, but not how to prevent stomps, secure stomps, and to know when to try and revive your teammate or stomp the opponent to give them a rally. The tutorial on the island is pathetic. ANet would do well to add more mobs that can stomp players and revive each other in pve, at least that would give people an inkling ofthe basics.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I firmly believe that the direction Anet went, in terms of developing the mechanics of gw2, was fundamentally driven by their experiences with the first game.

Landing a kill in the first game was a huge deal. So much so that it was virtually mandatory to bring some type of resurrection skill in order to not lose any ground. This significantly restricted certain skillbars. So in response, it seems like they just implemented it as sort of like a “phase” that you have to work around when someone dies, but everyone has the potential to res a person naturally.

Another problem was the “build wars” mentality that the first game developed, and even further strengthened, in its later years. One of the most effective ways to deal with one-trick-pony builds was to effectively split push. I think they realized this and tried to run with it. I think it lead to them enforcing smaller-sized teams (5 man teams instead of 8 man teams) and a focus on capture points.

Another problem was how long the games were. Victory or Death, if I remember correctly, wasn’t in the original incarnation of the game. Victory or Death is a situation when, at a certain time in a GvG, all the npc’s that are in each teams base would make a dash for the center of the map. Then the guild lord would follow suit, slowly marching to the middle of the map. The first team who got overwhelmed, and had their guild lord killed, lost. It was brought about because people could be in a match for literally 45 mins to an hour not making any headway at all. There were legit complaints about aegis stacking by monks (an enchantment spell that granted everyone on the team about 10 seconds of 50% chance to block, each monk would take aegis and just alternate it between the two). It lead to things like burning arrow ranger becoming popular because the ranger was known to split push the enemy base to quickly burn down npcs. This would prepare for Victory or Death (less NPC’s on the other team means advantage). In any case, since the matches lasted so long, I’m sure this persuaded them to try a “point-ticker” type system, and now we have games which rarely last 15 mins.

So, ironically enough (whether they were successful with it or not), they probably developed and tried to improve upon the last game due to what they
knew where the problems/complaints.

Have to say, did not expect to read an interesting and well thought out post today

Thank you.

downed state is where 90% of teamwork is in this game. now i personally think downed state should be removed entirely in WvW but in the sPvP environment it adds an additional level of strategy/teamplay this game needs.

they should however balance downed states, it’s absolutely ridiculous how strong some profession’s downed states are (elementalist, ranger, guardian, warrior) while others (thief, mesmer, engineer, necro) are so awful.

We have downed state because we don’t have healers. Zerker specs would go extinct if it got removed because nobody would take the risk, IMO.

glock.6590:

Firebird.8324:

Please re-title this “Imagine if this game were the same as every other game instead of being unique and interesting.”

Said the guy who abuses warbanners and mercy runes. Not you but your team.

If only you could see one of the non-streamed games of the WTS between us and Rough Bois (aka DDOS BOYS), Crysis got a triple rez with banner, it was amazing.

Downstate is a fun mechanic. I understand it is a different concept for people, but it is enjoyable and adds more strategy.

The game is balanced around downstate. If there wasn’t downstate, it wouldn’t be possible for anyone other than thief to run an every slightly squishy build. The game would just devolve into thieves shadowstepping in on someone, backstab and burst them down, then shadowstep out.

You can make thief builds that will guaranteed down nearly ANYONE in-game (especially if you coordinate with 2), but because stomping takes some time it actually puts that uber-squish at risk to get blown up if they want to actually finish.

I would hypothesize that the number of players using low mobility builds at least in spvp would drop dramatically.

I would appreciate an insta-suicide button for those random occasions when people refuse to stop you and spend five hours concussion shotting you until you die.

or maybe just remove downed state in hotjoin, cause no matter how integral to competitive it is only about 2/10 times I’m downed and far away from the fight (or hell even while near a relatively even fight) will people ever go out of their way to help and yes there are some times when it isn’t smart but when it is smart or there’s just a good opportunity I find a lot of the time i get ignored for the sake of trying to chase that god kitten ed de-cap engi.

just a suggestion, playing devil’s advocate.

if downstate didn’t exist instant gank builds might be viable. Would u prefer down state in front of your team or instantly dead in under a second from stealth?

lol.

Nailing an essential stomp is one of the most satisfying things in the game.