Guild Wars 2

PVP game? so what we have:

Negatives:

- 4 maps with one conquest mode and one map which is terrible and almost everyone leaves it when it comes (yes its raid on capricorn)

- super uber slow rank leveling when you hit rank 20 or 30 (the longer it takes to get next level the more boring it is maybe you should have done 150 pvp ranks but people level them faster than now = more rewarding actually).

- No guild vs guild pvp content at all (I wonder why its called guild wars then

- No rewarding for team play (when you have to stay on point to defend it you wont get anything, and when you are under attack and you are defeding the point as long as possible you wont get anything again!)

- Downed states. Oh my god I dont know who created it but keep this out of pvp please. Well downed states are not really balanced at all (thief vs elementalist, warrior vs necro etc). Oh and if you are good enough to take down 2 players alone they will kill you anyway thanks to this downed mode. Delete it from pvp (if you want skill based pvp).

Positives:

- Good combat system, really fast and good dodge system I really like it.

- Diversity in builds (well not for all classes at the moment but still more than 1 or 2 builds are quite viable, but this still need tweaking)

- No gear gap (Again good choice pvp should depend only on skill of the players not on their gear stats)

- PVP crafting (again nice move not so amazing but still very good)

Maybe I forgot something but simply you have long way to go to say this is pvp game and nowadays I dont know if this game ever will be esport if you wont delete downed states from pvp…

Agree with everything you say mate

Down system is fine, you just need to get used to it. I lol so hard when people say that the downed state of the thief is good. Thief and Mesmer downed state are nothing special if you have a clue about what they do and what “aoe” means.

Warrior, Necromancer and Guardian have really strong down state, but even they have their down sides. Learn to adapt to them and it won’t be a big deal.

“Guild Wars” refers to the series of human wars that eventually led to the fall of the kingdoms of Ascalon and Orr. It’s a lore-based name basically, not a gameplay-based one.

Agree. Downstate should be removed 100% from spvp/tpvp.

There is no ‘guild’ wars here. Recommend changing the name something different, like maybe "Lessons We Failed 2Lrn From WoW? Hint: One hitters ruin pvp.

There is no team play reward here. You can be a support class (like they force elementalists) and get no points for keeping people alive. So, you have to leave the behind to go get those cap points. Bad design.

Leveling in PvP is a pain in the kitten Should it be? I guess, why not. But PvP in it’s current state is why you are seeing screenshots pop up with the majority of the classes playing it, are the I’m a dumb monkey class.

Zatria.5783:

There is no team play reward here. You can be a support class (like they force elementalists) and get no points for keeping people alive.

I played wow from 27/05/05-01/04/12 as a healer
I would like to know , when healers in WoW get honor points for healing the others :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Zatria.5783:

There is no team play reward here. You can be a support class (like they force elementalists) and get no points for keeping people alive.

I played wow from 27/05/05-01/04/12 as a healer
I would like to know , when healers in WoW get honor points for healing the others :P

Disc Priest here and what are you talking about? You get a substantial amount of honor from winning the match, you get the mandatory welfare honor, you also get the honor for kills if you are in the area of the kill. This is not a great sysem as you have bots and afkers benefiting too much but the alternative that GW2 has still has some flaws.

Getting kills for being in the area of the kill should still be the norm, in group skirmishes sometimes you are healing or CCing other players when an enemy you werent doing damage too dies. You helped win the fight, so you should get a little points for being in the skirmish. I would also like to see them increase the base ammount of points you get for winning in Tpvp only, since personal points dont matter as much in that kind of play. That is just my 2cs though.

I feel like the current system punishes bunkers and support classes while raising up burst builds. In Spvp the most points go to the busters, in tpvp the same is mostly true. I know, I know, points dont matter in tpvp but why should a dps roamer get access to cool gear/weapons when the bunker has to wait 3 times a long?

Agree with all your positives and negatives. I think the downed state removal is the most important one. The focus of the combat should be the actual combat, not on Downed Wars.

Another post claiming subjective points prove some objective idea, worded in such a way that conversation is immediately put onto a negative foot, and in the end, no one gains any sort of benefit.

Your anger has been noted and filed away with everyone else’s.

Gw1, so i want you to think of both teams as single organisms with 8 parts. The two monk parts are particularly adept at maintaining the other 6, so a careful strategy must be laid to deal with or bypass these two. The other 6 will work hard to stop you while attacking your monk parts.

What enseus is a battle of positioning and tactics, as peices threaten areas.

Gw2: without downed state your entire depth of strategy is little lore than calling focus fires.

Gw2: with downed state now the peices have to move near one another. This combines with gap closers to create an environment where positioning is of minimal importance.

Where before there was a complex and intricate dance and weave, we now have a cluster kitten

I feel like george lucas was in on this sequel to gw1 pvp. I look at the genius of the first success and have no idea how the sequel came from the same source.

If they leave downed state have to rebalance the class, because the strong of thief or guardian or necro too is also a downed state.

All agree with the main post.

Good post, I agree with a lot of it, except:

Downed state is a positve overall I would say. It adds an extra dimension and without it I think combat would be less interesting. It’s not worth comparing downed abilities across classes. You have to compare the classes as a whole. Sure, some are stronger when downed, but then some are stronger when up. I notice Anet have tried to make the downed abilities consistent with the classes (e.g. thief is about evading the finish, guardians heal through it, necros fear and poison).

Having this extra dimension does make the challenge of balancing classes that much harder, mind you.

One additional positive that I personally would add – GW2 combat has avoided the classic heal vs DPS model. In every other game I’ve played the tactics of group PvP have been identical (CC healer, assist train on DPS). The whole self heal thing has gotten away from that, which is a big plus. 10 years of that old heal-dps chestnut was way more than enough for me.

I agree with main post, except on downed state which i think is a great idea and brings teamplay to another level.
Downed state also reduces the effectiveness of blindless dps assist chain … Cause downing an ennemy <> ennemy dead.
Therefore it gives different roles to different classes/builds.

Im glasscannon then Ill down ennemies easily but I might have troubles stomping them in the heat of the battle … Where my tank/support teammate has generally more tools to stomp people efficiently. And same deal when im downed they have tools to rez me easier then other archetypes.

If it was just killshot without downed state then teams would be 80% dps, 20% support and no real need for tank role, as seen in all other games before.

Not a bad post, but pretty much just sums up everything the entire community has been ranting about since BWE1.

However, downed state should be the same for all professions but with different animations and is totally fine in PvP even as it is; it just takes time to adjust.

Now, on pvp game topic, when i read that : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Devs-vs-Community-Why-Transparency-is-paramount-to-success/486050

Im really depressed.

Ok it was expected, ok thats all we see since release … but still they never ever post on forums and when they do so its to tell us :
More PvE content !!! More PvP blog (kittne I didnt know i was playing a pvp-blog-game) !!!! and new Pvp stuff in the ……" next few months" ?!?!?

quote: “I think you’ll be thrilled so see how quickly new features for pvp come rolling online over the next few months”

They dont even care losing subs since there is no sub.

Who wanna take bets as we will get Santa’s PvE event before any PvP update ?

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Down system is fine, you just need to get used to it. I lol so hard when people say that the downed state of the thief is good. Thief and Mesmer downed state are nothing special if you have a clue about what they do and what “aoe” means.

Warrior, Necromancer and Guardian have really strong down state, but even they have their down sides. Learn to adapt to them and it won’t be a big deal.

Haha, not even remotely close to true, the down state system is not fine.

Thief and Mesmer downstates leave great opportunities to greatly delay the enemy or even get yourself up or hidden until you have to be abandoned, at which point you get up. People rarely even bother trying to stomp them because of the futility of it. These classes can easily delay long enough to nail their #3 ability.

Warrior, Necromancer, Ranger and Guardian are relatively more balanced. They aren’t going anywhere, and aside from their single interupt style ability they just don’t have a whole lot of chance. They pretty much have to be neglected to make it to their #3.

The elementalist downed state is flagrantly underpowered and laughable, the engineer isn’t much better. Once down they’re dead. You can stomp them with relative impunity and virtually no delay.

It’s not a matter of “getting used” to anything, some of them just plain work better than others and that’s pretty much the definition of imbalance.

Colton.9460:

Getting kills for being in the area of the kill should still be the norm, in group skirmishes sometimes you are healing or CCing other players when an enemy you werent doing damage too dies. You helped win the fight, so you should get a little points for being in the skirmish.

Its true in GW2 too
If u cc the enemy , regen-heal ur teamm8s , rezz them , u will have more chances to wins vs the oponents and get the points
(But u have to hit once each enemy , while if they are on their feet or in the down state)

The only i disagree is downstate, for me its fine, just need balance..

But the idea its quite cool.

Thrym.9436:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Down system is fine, you just need to get used to it. I lol so hard when people say that the downed state of the thief is good. Thief and Mesmer downed state are nothing special if you have a clue about what they do and what “aoe” means.

Warrior, Necromancer and Guardian have really strong down state, but even they have their down sides. Learn to adapt to them and it won’t be a big deal.

Haha, not even remotely close to true, the down state system is not fine.

Thief and Mesmer downstates leave great opportunities to greatly delay the enemy or even get yourself up or hidden until you have to be abandoned, at which point you get up. People rarely even bother trying to stomp them because of the futility of it. These classes can easily delay long enough to nail their #3 ability.

Warrior, Necromancer, Ranger and Guardian are relatively more balanced. They aren’t going anywhere, and aside from their single interupt style ability they just don’t have a whole lot of chance. They pretty much have to be neglected to make it to their #3.

The elementalist downed state is flagrantly underpowered and laughable, the engineer isn’t much better. Once down they’re dead. You can stomp them with relative impunity and virtually no delay.

It’s not a matter of “getting used” to anything, some of them just plain work better than others and that’s pretty much the definition of imbalance.

You don’t have enough experience, as simple as that. Mesmer and Thief are the most vulnerable and controlable characters when they are downed. Why stomp them? are you bad? Let them bleed while you take the node like a boss. It is clear that you have not had enough experience at serious PvP level. Thief and Mesmer can be stomped before their third ability is up, if you are fast and don’t have snail reaction time.

Warrior, Necromancer and Guardian have overal more viable downed abilities than Mesmer and Thief. Necromancer demolishes anyone in a downed fight except warrior and has a fear to hold off aganist low opponents and win. Warrior has an interrupt and usually gets stomped after that, but oh boy if you get vengeance up in group fights, you change the flow of the game and don’t even get me started on downed vs downed which is auto win for Warrior. Guardian has a bunker aoe ability when downed, if that isn’t good enough he also has a powerful heal which makes him win most downed vs downed fights.

I love it when a thief is downed, just put some conditions on them and stop their heal and you can lock them out of the battle for as long as 30 sec LOL, same for mesmers, not always the best option but a lot of time it is depending on the situation.

Pro up brah.

@Blazer Hellsing you are saying he doesnt have enough experience but it seems you are the one who doesnt have it.

If you send two people to stomp downed warrior/necromancer/eng they will stomp them no matter what they will use in downed state….if you will send two people or even 5 people (which is stupid i know) to stomp thief or mesmer they will always and I mean always get away from first stomp and thief with good timing can get away from second stomp as well. This is really imbalanced and need fixing I dont even mention elementalist because its the easiest class to stomp in downed state. Dont forget in tpvp stomping is important because if you let thief or mesmer in downed state do you really think their team mates are so stupid to let them die and dont ress them? I didnt meet such a team.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

“if you will send two people or even 5 people (which is stupid i know) to stomp thief”

your main thief I know you will defend your class np next time maybe

I’m gonna be honest here, but to me the original post comes off as someone needing to be gratified by the game to enjoy the mode. As in, you’re not playing for fun and challenge you just want points and to level up. If you really care a lot about your score, and not about doing what it takes to win, then you may have some issues.

Numot.3965:

I’m gonna be honest here, but to me the original post comes off as someone needing to be gratified by the game to enjoy the mode. As in, you’re not playing for fun and challenge you just want points and to level up. If you really care a lot about your score, and not about doing what it takes to win, then you may have some issues.

sadly that is how spvp is designed: care about your own points, ignore the team effort itself.
My sad truth of spvp: defending gets you nothing but killed…

Very often the losing team ends up with more glory than the winning team, simply because they ignored all objectives and just went for kills as a group.

And what is the only way to advance in pvp? What is the only key to get more chests to aquire gear?
It’s not team play.
It’s not even winning.
It’s glory points and ranking up… nothing else seems to matter in spvp.

Of course tpvp is different.
But still spvp is important in the game too, even though pvp ’pro’s’ like to say it’s not.
In general view of the game, and it’s player population, I would even say spvp is more important.

…people honestly think necro has a better downstate than engie?
WAT!?

Engineer downstate is quite alright if only 1 stomper.

The mometn there are 2 or more, you best hope they go drink a coffee first, till your #3 comes of cooldown finally.
Because else there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.

That is a factor too: what professions can survive multiple stompers for a while?
Engineer is only decent versus 1.

Kimbald.2697:

Engineer downstate is quite alright if only 1 stomper.

The mometn there are 2 or more, you best hope they go drink a coffee first, till your #3 comes of cooldown finally.
Because else there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.

That is a factor too: what professions can survive multiple stompers for a while?
Engineer is only decent versus 1.

Necro has a single-target 1s fear. That’s it. Engineer can survive one immediate stomp and two later stomps thanks to 2 and 3.

The Boz.2038:

Kimbald.2697:

Engineer downstate is quite alright if only 1 stomper.

The mometn there are 2 or more, you best hope they go drink a coffee first, till your #3 comes of cooldown finally.
Because else there is nothing you can do to protect yourself.

That is a factor too: what professions can survive multiple stompers for a while?
Engineer is only decent versus 1.

Necro has a single-target 1s fear. That’s it. Engineer can survive one immediate stomp and two later stomps thanks to 2 and 3.

Wasn’t comparing by the way, just giving my opinion on the engineer downstate.

Have never taken a necro to battle, only looked at the traits and such a bit in the Mists.

I find engineer downstate ‘balanced’ in the way you shouldn’t survive several stompers the moment you fall.
Having the knockback after a lenghty cooldown is good, in the way that it rewards staying around that long

That’s how it should be for all I think: interrupt a single stomp first, and maybe have another ace up your sleeve after hanging around for a while.

If 2 or more come to stomp a fallen enemy, surely he should be dead I think.
I don’t see the logic in being able to defend against multiple stompers immediately.
You’re supposed to be nearly dead after all. You can trick one, but not several…

I agree with everything except downed state, it does need a bit of balancing through

Thrym.9436:

Thief and Mesmer downstates leave great opportunities to greatly delay the enemy or even get yourself up or hidden until you have to be abandoned, at which point you get up. People rarely even bother trying to stomp them because of the futility of it. These classes can easily delay long enough to nail their #3 ability.

Thief downed state is only very slightly OP. It needs shorter range on tele, or maybe an easier tell for direction of tele (direction thief was facing). However if you are alone with thief it is still pretty easy to get the stomp off before #3. Mesmer is easy and if you are having problems it is only your fault.

Thrym.9436:

The elementalist downed state is flagrantly underpowered and laughable, the engineer isn’t much better. Once down they’re dead. You can stomp them with relative impunity and virtually no delay.

“Once down they’re dead.” — description of all classes’ downed state with no allies nearby. You act like it’s impossible to stomp any class but ele (spoiler: not true).

Amityel.5324:

If you send two people to stomp downed warrior/necromancer/eng they will stomp them no matter what they will use in downed state….if you will send two people or even 5 people (which is stupid i know) to stomp thief or mesmer they will always and I mean always get away from first stomp and thief with good timing can get away from second stomp as well. This is really imbalanced and need fixing I dont even mention elementalist because its the easiest class to stomp in downed state. Dont forget in tpvp stomping is important because if you let thief or mesmer in downed state do you really think their team mates are so stupid to let them die and dont ress them? I didnt meet such a team.

Did you know that ranger has aoe stomp rupt? And guardian. Not just mesmer and thief that you like to concentrate on so much. And who in their right mind sends more than 1 person to stomp someone anyway, regardless of class? Again, thief is only slightly better than rest. Mesmer is not a problem. It’s like I’m reading the thoughts from the inside of a baddie’s head as he’s playing. “o this is OP, that’s OP, gotta send 5 people to stomp that mesmer, this is so unbalanced. How are we gonna cap points if we send whole team to stomp?!”

I think different downed states are good in different situations, which is fair. However, these different situations span over sPvP, and into things like PvE and WvW. It probably should be balanced around sPvP first though.

There are way too many issues with Guild Wars 2 for it to be considered a PvP game. There is not enough PvP content in the game and the issues regarding balance are way too extreme – I’m not just talking about Thieves.

Maybe in six months, it will be a good PvP game.

@Milo Did you know about stability? If you send one player with stability he can stomp every class except mesmer and thief is that balanced? I dont think so

I just think trebucher map would be more interesting without the trebucher

Before that update where stats apply to downed state, not stomping is actually a good tactic, now you kinda get smacked around for quite a bit from downed state 1 spam.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Down system is fine, you just need to get used to it. I lol so hard when people say that the downed state of the thief is good. Thief and Mesmer downed state are nothing special if you have a clue about what they do and what “aoe” means.

Warrior, Necromancer and Guardian have really strong down state, but even they have their down sides. Learn to adapt to them and it won’t be a big deal.

All classes can be finished as soon as they are downed. Except for Thief and Mesmer.

3 words, Blind On Animation.

Amityel.5324:

PVP game? so what we have:

Negatives:

- 4 maps with one conquest mode and one map which is terrible and almost everyone leaves it when it comes (yes its raid on capricorn)

- super uber slow rank leveling when you hit rank 20 or 30 (the longer it takes to get next level the more boring it is maybe you should have done 150 pvp ranks but people level them faster than now = more rewarding actually).

- No guild vs guild pvp content at all (I wonder why its called guild wars then

- No rewarding for team play (when you have to stay on point to defend it you wont get anything, and when you are under attack and you are defeding the point as long as possible you wont get anything again!)

- Downed states. Oh my god I dont know who created it but keep this out of pvp please. Well downed states are not really balanced at all (thief vs elementalist, warrior vs necro etc). Oh and if you are good enough to take down 2 players alone they will kill you anyway thanks to this downed mode. Delete it from pvp (if you want skill based pvp).

Positives:

- Good combat system, really fast and good dodge system I really like it.

- Diversity in builds (well not for all classes at the moment but still more than 1 or 2 builds are quite viable, but this still need tweaking)

- No gear gap (Again good choice pvp should depend only on skill of the players not on their gear stats)

- PVP crafting (again nice move not so amazing but still very good)

Maybe I forgot something but simply you have long way to go to say this is pvp game and nowadays I dont know if this game ever will be esport if you wont delete downed states from pvp…

- capricorn is not in Tpvp
- ranks mean nothing
- i bet they will make gvg
- reward for team play = get in to next round
- downed state will get balanced eventually

[/quote]You don’t have enough experience, as simple as that. Mesmer and Thief are the most vulnerable and controlable characters when they are downed. Why stomp them? are you bad? Let them bleed while you take the node like a boss. It is clear that you have not had enough experience at serious PvP level. Thief and Mesmer can be stomped before their third ability is up, if you are fast and don’t have snail reaction time.[/quote]

I’m sorry Blazer but have you even played a organized 5v5 team game? It’s laughable to hear you say that stomping is a bad idea when you think that bleeding a thief & or mesmer is going to out dps a team’s revive on those professions. You might need to rethink anything you ever say from now on.

To be honest I don’t see any reasons mesmers and thieves downstate being OP . Yes, once you down them, you can be quite sure that you’ll need to stomp them twice, but it’s always predictable, while others class “2” abilities are aimed on CC other’s players rather then saving themselves, which can be a good contribution if the your teammates still continue fighting. So it’s balanced in some way, though my personal opinion is that downstate should be more like staying alive rather then having some offensive capacity.
But what should be definitely fixed is Ele downstate. When I switch to Ele sometimes, after being downed I just take a sip of tea without pressing nothing. (sPvP ofc)

P.S. main post really carries much sense!

I love how people “claim” they want strategic gameplay yet keep bashing the only element in Guild Wars which promotes strategic gameplay:

Downed state.

When a team comes back from a wipe due to clever Down State management… you got outclassed. Then you come to the forums and whine. Especially since the only thing keeping GW from being a DPS race is downed state. It’s fine.

I don’t say this often but when I do I mean it:

Learn2Play

rickshaw.5279:

I love how people “claim” they want strategic gameplay yet keep bashing the only element in Guild Wars which promotes strategic gameplay:

Downed state.

When a team comes back from a wipe due to clever Down State management… you got outclassed. Then you come to the forums and whine. Especially since the only thing keeping GW from being a DPS race is downed state. It’s fine.

I don’t say this often but when I do I mean it:

Learn2Play

100% agree.
Downed state is fun and enables more strats than the usual dps assist chain zerg… Gives you another chance after getting beaten/focused either you get up by yourself, kill someone or get ressed by teammate.
And same goes when you see a teammate getting focused and downed, you gotta help him/protect him.

To address your points:

1. Taste in maps is subjective. Capricorn requires a very different playstyle and is the newest, thus many aren’t used to it. If you dislike underwater combat, it’s highly likely you wont like this.

2. Rank levelling is slow, but it provides nothing of any real value.

3. Guild versus Guild combat is a lore-based name and not one related to game play.

4. The reward is the opportunity to move onto the next round.

5. Combat downed states by equipping stealth or stability skills to ensure you can stomp. Some downed skills need balancing but this will come in time.

rickshaw.5279:

When a team comes back from a wipe due to clever Down State management… you got outclassed.

Golden words, I’ve been lucky to play several sPvP games with thief who didn’t bother to stealth-revive his teammates and it was determenent of some battles.

It’s good that professions are different.
But I really think downed state should be the same for everybody.

When downed you’re just a dying character, like all others, no profession skills come into play till you are back on your feet again.

At best make different animations and such for the same abilities.

Give all a first ability (#2) that interrupts a single stomp and than a bit after a second ability that knocks back or interrupts all around (#3).

More is not needed.
If you get stomped by more than one, you should die. Plain and simple.
If the opponent is distracted before stomping, you should have a chance to help the team effort going on by interrupting all around.

-You have to consider that sPvP is not the only game mode there is. Four maps are a fair amount when considering everything ells ArenaNet had to put in the game as well. You have to think of the game as a whole.

-Who the hell cares about leveling in a PvP game? You aren’t losing anything by being low level.

-The game is called Guild Wars because of the story of Guild Wars 1. The name ‘Guild Wars’ is a reference to the humans guilds who were fighting each other over who should be king of Tyria. It has nothing to do with gameplay.

-Why is it that you want a reward? I’ve never heard anyone complain about that in a FPS multiplayer game. The reward for playing PvP is improving your gameplay, so you can beat more/better opponents. Or finding new builds that no one has thought of before.

-You are thinking of downed state as a separate mode to the game. The down state is a part of the game, like it or not. If you take into consideration that you also have to stomp someone, before you start a fight, you will be better prepared for it. Also, remember that you don’t have to always stomp players, you can also simply kite them down with condition damage, or with pets.

Do you know why I dont like those downed states? Because when you are outnumbered 1vs2 or 2vs3 and you actually win the fight those players in downed state are still dealing dmg to you (around 1k per hit for example) and even you are not yet in downed state you wont stomp them in time and you will die just because of this. For me this is not skill based you have disadvantage already when you are outnumbered. Downed state is advantage for players with more numbers not for outnumbered players.