Guild Wars 2

I’m not a great player but I have been playing for a while and hopely have some insight on the current scene, first an analogy.

I used to play Diablo 2 and my first char was a minionmancer. The minionmancer wasn’t really a competitive build. It lacked effectiveness in many situations and wasn’t competitive. Why did I play it? because even with terrible gear and low skills, I could clear the highest difficulty.

back to gw2:

Passive play builds should NEVER be the meta. Passive builds should allow newer players the ability to enjoy PvP and WvW without quitting the game in frustration. HOWEVER, once those players get better, it should behoove them to switch to more challenging build. A good player should always get more out of a skilled build then a passive ai build.

suggestions:

mesmer: increase weapon damage, decrease phantasm damage and illusion condi traits.
ranger: increase weapon damage, decrease spirit abilities.

about necromancers: aoe targetting is a skill, but marks don’t require any skill…
arcing arrow is so slow it requires skill, cluster bomb same thing. ele targetting aoe’s require skill.

how many times do you want to nerf spirit ranger? get over it, dude. if you can’t handle the meta just play another game. we don’t need anymore qq’s.

First off, when talking about passive builds: risk-reward. Passive builds have very low “risk”, in that they are generally low skill and have a lot of forgiving mechanics. You just keep the passives going (if you even need to do that much), and you generally have far less to keep track of than an active build. Obviously, then, they should have the lowest power cap, so if played perfectly a passive heavy build should always underperform compared to a high skill cap build.

On to the thing about Necromancers: marks don’t really require skill in general. However, they also have relatively low effect compared to the same things that people try to compare them to if they are just spammed. There have been ridiculous amounts of threads asking for them to be changed, but any change to making them harder to land is going to be accompanied by buffs to their effect. Not saying that its bad, I’d much prefer more skill be required for using the weapon to maybe make it remotely fun, but realize that you’re not going to get things like after-cast pre-effect animations to marks as they are now and keep them remotely balanced.

Also, people need to realize that a lot of what is considered “passive” builds aren’t. GW1 MM was an “AI” build. It also had one of the highest skillcaps in the game if you were going to micro the enchants and everything about the minions. Not everything that has a small passive aspect is a passive build.

I don’t think marks should be activated when they are placed at our feet. That single change will be enough to tone down braindead necros and to make marks close to engi granades which actually will require thinking from the necro side to track and predict target movement.

Valentin.2073:

how many times do you want to nerf spirit ranger? get over it, dude. if you can’t handle the meta just play another game. we don’t need anymore qq’s.

Coming from a spirit ranger… LOOOOOOL

I want the Nerf on Pu Mesmer only. The other 2 ( Zoo builds ) are garbage in the real world pvp, so they can have their small op room there. . .

Valentin.2073:

how many times do you want to nerf spirit ranger? get over it, dude. if you can’t handle the meta just play another game. we don’t need anymore qq’s.

Sadly enough, this is why we cant have nice things. Oh well, Anet seems to be fine with low risk high reward builds that can be played by a poop chucking gorilla, so I guess all thats left for us to do is laugh at brain dead posts like this and move on.

Scoobaniec.9561:

I don’t think marks should be activated when they are placed at our feet. That single change will be enough to tone down braindead necros and to make marks close to engi granades which actually will require thinking from the necro side to track and predict target movement.

Except marks are not strong enough to demand a post-cast activation. If you cannot dodge the mark in the 3/4s cast time, that’s on you. The problem with the marks is that it is incredibly difficult to tell which one they are casting.

stobes.9254:

Valentin.2073:

how many times do you want to nerf spirit ranger? get over it, dude. if you can’t handle the meta just play another game. we don’t need anymore qq’s.

Sadly enough, this is why we cant have nice things. Oh well, Anet seems to be fine with low risk high reward builds that can be played by a poop chucking gorilla, so I guess all thats left for us to do is laugh at brain dead posts like this and move on.

anet has been nerfing rangers non-stop because of these insubstantial qq’s. yah know what? i can play power build and spirit build and they are both easy mode for me. its not your build that defines you as pvp’er its your own individual skill. people will complain about anything. when i get beaten 1v1, i dont complain. i just move on. you cant expect to win all your battles.

There is a place for passive builds (any ranger, phantasm mesmer, regen warrior) as a starting point for new players. It lets them concentrate on what their enemy is doing and less on managing all of their abilities. These builds should be appreciably weaker than more complex builds played at the skillcap.

Above passive builds should be spammy builds (necro, engi). They require more effort than just logging in and pressing 1, but they still let you get away with not using your abilities in an optimal way.

Then you should have the competitive builds where blowing a cooldown at the wrong time puts you at a big disadvantage, your damaging abilities are devastating skillshots that are either very difficult to land or require setup and there are a lot of cooldowns, boons and other abilities to keep track of. No build quite fits into this catagory yet. Ele is closest if you remove air/arcane instants.

Currently, this basic concept is tipped on its head and its why basically everyone is unhappy.

Caffynated.5713:

..No build quite fits into this catagory yet. ….

no wonder. u know back in the old days there where the big hitters but noobs in zerker was qq until they where nerfed. now the big hitters are hard to land and does crap dmg and we are in condition/spam meta.

Caffynated.5713:

There is a place for passive builds (any ranger, phantasm mesmer, regen warrior) as a starting point for new players. It lets them concentrate on what their enemy is doing and less on managing all of their abilities. These builds should be appreciably weaker than more complex builds played at the skillcap.

Above passive builds should be spammy builds (necro, engi). They require more effort than just logging in and pressing 1, but they still let you get away with not using your abilities in an optimal way.

Then you should have the competitive builds where blowing a cooldown at the wrong time puts you at a big disadvantage, your damaging abilities are devastating skillshots that are either very difficult to land or require setup and there are a lot of cooldowns, boons and other abilities to keep track of. No build quite fits into this catagory yet. Ele is closest if you remove air/arcane instants.

Currently, this basic concept is tipped on its head and its why basically everyone is unhappy.

That sounds a lot like PvE progression from tank builds to straight zerker and team work. that being said no build will likely be that rewarding. The pop for early in did not like the burst meta. Asking for it may seem logical but truth is no one liked it then and likely will not like it now.

If you make the meta like this then new players and no so good players will be over run without much effort by better players. this will happen regardless so there is no need to reward skill other than winning. From pong to street fighter even if all else is equal good players will rise above others.

Technically a well played kit engineer is literally doing exactly what you suggest. The thing is even before a well played engineer will run over some one while managing CDs. Which makes something that is a well orchestrated routine look like spam,

The burst meta relied of faceroll easymode builds too. Thief burst was described by top thief players like Lowell as “drop mouse, punch keyboard.”

By skillshots, I mean like phoenix. The skill has a moderate-long cooldown and missing with the direct hits cuts your damage in half. That’s how all powerful abilities should be. The easier it is to land, the weaker it needs to be. Yet we have skills like backstab and eviscerate that deal almost as much damage and whether they hit or not is 99% on the opponent’s reaction instead of the skill of the attacker. Attacks don’t even have to be massive damage to be devastating. Stuns, immob, long chills, etc. can have a huge impact on fights and should be much harder to land than they are.

An engi can get away with just vomiting nades and farting bombs all over the point and he’s either going to force you off point for the cap or kill you for staying on point. None of his attacks are skill shots and it doesn’t really matter to him if he misses quite a few of his skills, because he can just spam more that are pretty much just as good by swapping to another kit. Necro is essentially the same way. There’s not a big gap between a competent player and a good player on engi/necro and most of the difference is in their ability to avoid attacks instead of the ability to land their attacks.

Ok let me explain. Your suggestion is that builds that require more skills should reward players more for pulling them off. As it is full burst S/D ele literally does that and can one shot you. Whether it is thief or not does not matter. Back when bull charge 100B _ quickness was warrior meta any warrior could tell you that if you miss your burst it is over. Thief in Spvp at the time was out of hand now it really isn’t even possible to play a build that reflected the insane DD mug meta. Lets be serious a second. Are DD thieves really bursting players down form no where today? Defenses have been boosted so much since then and damage toned down that it really isn’t all that viable in the current meta. I suspect if you put that build back in the game as it was then it wouldn’t stand a real chance in the current meta.

What you asked for are builds that require more skill bur reward you for it. In that case there really are only 2 ways it can go. More dps or more survivability for good play. Since bunkering doesn’t require all that much likely these builds will go toward more DPS in most cases. You likely end up with unstoppable burst builds or the current meta but only for skilled players ie High dps medium defenses.

Can engi spam like a crazy? Yep. The thing is you really are right about the….. AoE. Honestly a well played engineer is surviving due to watching cool downs and playing exactly like you describe. How are they rewarded for it? More up time. Like I said skilled based builds will only go into 2 direction more dps or more survivability. Not that I don’t thin engineer are out of hand but at the same time real balance is a pipe dream. Making skill based builds will just push the divide further.

Burst builds like S/D (to a lesser extent S/F) ele, engineer SD, and Meditations guard do sort of play the way you describe. While they don’t all have long cds the do all require at least enough skill to actually land your burst.

" Stuns, immob, long chills, etc. can have a huge impact on fights and should be much harder to land than they are." very true. I just do not see them nerfing this given all the condi removal and stability they have been tossing out. It seems they went in a direction and are sticking to it.

Bumped for emphasis.

GW2’s entire combat system is built around the idea of being able to predict, see and avoid your enemies moves. However this isn’t the case with so much emphasis but on passive elements.

Healing Signet like all classes passive heals, should be a, but never the best option.

Signets in general should always be suboptimal compared to active, “on use” abilities.

You should rely on well-telegraphed skills, which in turn can be avoided, to deal great damage instead of spaming auto-attack to win.

I mean most of us here have come from MMOs where we yielded 30+ skills at once. And somehow ANet makes a good proportion of our 15 skills passive, as if we couldn’t handle more.

Passive traits are ok, but not abilities.

law.9410:

I’m not a great player but I have been playing for a while and hopely have some insight on the current scene, first an analogy.

I used to play Diablo 2 and my first char was a minionmancer. The minionmancer wasn’t really a competitive build. It lacked effectiveness in many situations and wasn’t competitive. Why did I play it? because even with terrible gear and low skills, I could clear the highest difficulty.

back to gw2:

Passive play builds should NEVER be the meta. Passive builds should allow newer players the ability to enjoy PvP and WvW without quitting the game in frustration. HOWEVER, once those players get better, it should behoove them to switch to more challenging build. A good player should always get more out of a skilled build then a passive ai build.

suggestions:

mesmer: increase weapon damage, decrease phantasm damage and illusion condi traits.
ranger: increase weapon damage, decrease spirit abilities.

wow ty finally someone that isnt just ranting about ai. i wouldnt mind having less phantasm action at all. id rather get some aoe or something that is not ai based. i find it weird that a light armor is being pushed to be an ai duelist class.

Thx for posting all I’m not asking for nerfs per say, I’m asking to transfer dps/utilities from ai abilities to the player. This would actually be a buff to people who are willing to play more aggresively.