Guild Wars 2

Healing Signet

Signet of Bloodthirst
Passive: Your damaging attacks which gain adrenaline heal you.
Active: Heal yourself

The effective rate of healing would the same as it is today and it’d be balanced.

In order to maintain that level of healing, the warrior would need to continually dish out damage.

It’s very warrior-like, to boot: the more damage he does, the more he sustains.

CC and damage avoidance are hard counters, and running away for 10 seconds to regen 4khp is no longer an option.

If the warrior needs to disengage and heal, he now has a reason to use the active ability on the signet.

Ta-da! I’m on a roll today. OK guys, what part of sPvP should I fix next? :-P

You mean just like the thief signet but better? I guess that’s one way to fix the off hand axe and break the meta further. Healing signet is fine as it is, nerfing it to please whiners should only come with huge buffs to the other heals.

glaphen.5230:

You mean just like the thief signet but better? I guess that’s one way to fix the off hand axe and break the meta further. Healing signet is fine as it is, nerfing it to please whiners should only come with huge buffs to the other heals.

Yes, exactly like the thief signet. The thief signet is really more warrior-like than it is thief-like. Signet of Malice doesn’t really fit well with the thief style of play.

And no, the Healing Signet is overpowered. Necromancers are supposed to be the ‘sustain’ class and they have a healing pet that is supposed to do just that. Yet HS is even more powerful than the necro pet. And the pet can be killed!

Another I have seen that I really like:
Passive:
Gain X health per second (maybe 300)
Gain an additional Y health per second (Maybe 100) when within 450 range of an enemy
Active:
Heal Yourself

Still very warrior-like as it allows you to “stick in the fray” but lessens your ability to just run away, get back all your health so quick, and come back.

My concern with purely passive regeneration is that it has no counter play: there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Poison slows it down, but that also works on normal heals, and normal heals can be interrupted. The signet cannot.

I believe that if you remove the existing counter play with a passive regeneration signet, you need to replace it with a different kind of counter play. It makes the game more interesting.

Additionally, CC such as stuns are rewarding enough in themselves: the idea that while you’ve incapacitated your opponent you are passively healing for 400hp/sec seems downright broken.

However a warrior getting 400hp/sec in regen because he’s doing a great job of sticking on someone and smacking the holy heck out of him/her sounds more balanced. The better the warrior is at staying on target and damaging, the better his healing gets.

This is why I’m partial to the heal-while-dealing-damage signet: teamwork and coordination will help the warrior stay on target, which helps keep the warrior healed. Conversely, dodging and CC can act as good counter play to the signet.

For example, look at the Necromancer’s Blood Fiend. You can CC it, dodge it or kill it to counteract the Necromancer’s passive regen. That’s good counter play. The Healing Signet needs its own counter play outside of just ‘poison’.

the problem is if they remove healing signet warr will be kited again like donkey,thats why then need to shave some other things like they will with hammer,we dont wanna warr to be overpower but we also dont wanna them out of meta,his healing signet its only thing that will hold him into meta after nerfs to hammer

I don’t follow your logic. How does the Healing Signet keep warriors from getting kited? My suggestion is to change the signet to heal when you deal damage.

Warrior’s being kited = a dead warrior.

Thief do this better because they have shadowsteps, and stealth. Shadowstep is not effected by cripple/chill/immobilize.

Warriors struggle harder to do so.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I don’t follow your logic. How does the Healing Signet keep warriors from getting kited? My suggestion is to change the signet to heal when you deal damage.

He meant that before buffs warriors were severely outsustained by most builds. That’s one reason why warrs were so easy to beat.

That meant you could get an enormous advantage by draining out the fight.
That was more of a WvWvW problem, IMHO, because in tPvP kiting is useless. But if Anet wants to add deathmatch, such things can’t happen.

That doesn’t necessarily mean signet is fine as it is, though. I’d actually like it to be like the old healing signet:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

Enormous heal for a pretty low cooldown, damage suffered increased while casting. A skill that is OP when your strategy is better than the enemy one, utterly crappy when the opposit happens.

personally i think this is a very bad proposal.

healing signet is fine now.
there is no need to fix what is not broken.

Healing Signet is fine.

Healing Signet is most definitely not fine. The people who truly believe this are the ones who are using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.
Quite simply, the Healing Signet is PvP for dummies.

Thedenofsin.7340:

using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.

such baseless claims.

what evidence do you have to back up your claims?

i play a warrior in sPvP / WvW / PvE ,
my warrior still can defeat other warriors.
other professions still can defeat my warrior.

now your turn.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Healing Signet is most definitely not fine. The people who truly believe this are the ones who are using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.
Quite simply, the Healing Signet is PvP for dummies.

There is a counterplay.

High DPS and High pressure. The warrior has to actively fight to survive.

You will say, Endure pain. Then use condis. You say Berserker stance, then use CC. You say stability. Then you win. He activated all his defensive skills. Kite him for 8 seconds and you win. He has zero protection to save himself. If you play any other profession, you probably have mobility to escape the Hambow.

After the 8 seconds, Everyone focuses the warrior and the warrior becomes helpless. The warrior becomes a punching bag and will eventually die.

I have zero problems with killing warriors and the only time I feel invincible when playing Warrior is when weaker players are trying to brute force against me. The more skillful players keep their distance until they know all my defenses are down to instagib me. The more skillful players dodge every key attack as I helplessly attempt to fight back.

Maybe, I am just wasting my time. Maybe this thread is a L2P issue. Maybe, you don’t want to learn how to kill these OP warriors. You probably want to mindlessly kill warriors with no effort.

runeblade.7514:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Healing Signet is most definitely not fine. The people who truly believe this are the ones who are using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.
Quite simply, the Healing Signet is PvP for dummies.

There is a counterplay.

High DPS and High pressure. The warrior has to actively fight to survive.

You will say, Endure pain. Then use condis. You say Berserker stance, then use CC. You say stability. Then you win. He activated all his defensive skills. Kite him for 8 seconds and you win. He has zero protection to save himself. If you play any other profession, you probably have mobility to escape the Hambow.

After the 8 seconds, Everyone focuses the warrior and the warrior becomes helpless. The warrior becomes a punching bag and will eventually die.

I have zero problems with killing warriors and the only time I feel invincible when playing Warrior is when weaker players are trying to brute force against me. The more skillful players keep their distance until they know all my defenses are down to instagib me. The more skillful players dodge every key attack as I helplessly attempt to fight back.

Maybe, I am just wasting my time. Maybe this thread is a L2P issue. Maybe, you don’t want to learn how to kill these OP warriors. You probably want to mindlessly kill warriors with no effort.

aye, truths and facts. this is.

endure pain
duration 4 seconds, 60 seconds recharge time, 56 seconds down time.
still affected by conditions.

berserker stance
duration 8 seconds, 10 seconds with sure footed stance
60 seconds recharge time, 52 seconds or 50 seconds down time
still takes non condition damage

they have trouble putting down a warrior within 50 seconds?

Thedenofsin.7340:

glaphen.5230:

You mean just like the thief signet but better? I guess that’s one way to fix the off hand axe and break the meta further. Healing signet is fine as it is, nerfing it to please whiners should only come with huge buffs to the other heals.

Yes, exactly like the thief signet. The thief signet is really more warrior-like than it is thief-like. Signet of Malice doesn’t really fit well with the thief style of play.

And no, the Healing Signet is overpowered. Necromancers are supposed to be the ‘sustain’ class and they have a healing pet that is supposed to do just that. Yet HS is even more powerful than the necro pet. And the pet can be killed!

But Necros have extra health bar, access to Teleport, Dark Field, Poison Field, Ethereal field, all boons, all conditions (can spam them), Minions, life siphon/life steal, can heal with other skills, and more, and more, and more…

BlackBeard.2873:

Another I have seen that I really like:
Passive:
Gain X health per second (maybe 300)
Gain an additional Y health per second (Maybe 100) when within 450 range of an enemy
Active:
Heal Yourself

Still very warrior-like as it allows you to “stick in the fray” but lessens your ability to just run away, get back all your health so quick, and come back.

What happens in a fight against a ranged enemy? No heal?
:/
Range limit is an horrible and trolling idea, just stay over “x” range to disable warrior heal :/

Thedenofsin.7340:

My concern with purely passive regeneration is that it has no counter play: there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Poison slows it down, but that also works on normal heals, and normal heals can be interrupted. The signet cannot.

I believe that if you remove the existing counter play with a passive regeneration signet, you need to replace it with a different kind of counter play. It makes the game more interesting.

Additionally, CC such as stuns are rewarding enough in themselves: the idea that while you’ve incapacitated your opponent you are passively healing for 400hp/sec seems downright broken.

However a warrior getting 400hp/sec in regen because he’s doing a great job of sticking on someone and smacking the holy heck out of him/her sounds more balanced. The better the warrior is at staying on target and damaging, the better his healing gets.

This is why I’m partial to the heal-while-dealing-damage signet: teamwork and coordination will help the warrior stay on target, which helps keep the warrior healed. Conversely, dodging and CC can act as good counter play to the signet.

For example, look at the Necromancer’s Blood Fiend. You can CC it, dodge it or kill it to counteract the Necromancer’s passive regen. That’s good counter play. The Healing Signet needs its own counter play outside of just ‘poison’.

Has counter play to stealth?
A Thief heals much more than warrior with Signet Malice, Shadow Refuge, Combos and some other skills and traits.
Signet of Restoration heals all time, and in addiction to combos, skills and traits, Element can heal himself all time.
HS itself can’t face incoming damage, because any body deals only 392 dmg/s. If an warrior stand stopped, he fall quickly and easy.
- No have passive play!

runeblade.7514:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Healing Signet is most definitely not fine. The people who truly believe this are the ones who are using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.
Quite simply, the Healing Signet is PvP for dummies.

There is a counterplay.

High DPS and High pressure. The warrior has to actively fight to survive.

You will say, Endure pain. Then use condis. You say Berserker stance, then use CC. You say stability. Then you win. He activated all his defensive skills. Kite him for 8 seconds and you win. He has zero protection to save himself. If you play any other profession, you probably have mobility to escape the Hambow.

After the 8 seconds, Everyone focuses the warrior and the warrior becomes helpless. The warrior becomes a punching bag and will eventually die.

I have zero problems with killing warriors and the only time I feel invincible when playing Warrior is when weaker players are trying to brute force against me. The more skillful players keep their distance until they know all my defenses are down to instagib me. The more skillful players dodge every key attack as I helplessly attempt to fight back.

Maybe, I am just wasting my time. Maybe this thread is a L2P issue. Maybe, you don’t want to learn how to kill these OP warriors. You probably want to mindlessly kill warriors with no effort.

You’re joking right? The counterplay is more damage? So then just buFf the signet to 1000hp/sec. Right? Just coUnterplay it by doing more damage?

That’s honestly one of the stupidest arguments I’ve heard to date. I think you are right this thread is a L2P issue, but it’s in part by posts like this.

Do more damage to Counter healing signet? Endure Pain? Oh, then do condi damage! Oh, berserKer stance? Then do burst damage!

So let’s see now. All YOU need to do is 500+dps damage out out-damage the healing signet, and be able to do 500+dps condi damage for when the warrior pops Berserker stance…. oh let’s not forget that the warrior is also doing 500+dps. So, assuming you have the same HP pools, you need to be doing 800+dps direct damage to actually kill him before he kills you, and 800+dps condition damage.

Yes, let me pull out that awesome 30/30/30/30/30 spec so I can counter that warrior’s healing signet.

I hopped on a warrior for the first time in PVP the other day and ROFLstomped players. The signet is a total joke and can turn any chump into a killing machine. I’m pretty sure my 3 year old could wreck everyone with these broken specs.

OK guys, you win. Keep your Healing Signet and call it balanced. All this QQ trying to defend the healing signet reminds of me World of Roguecraft.

Bad skills create bad gameplay. Bad gameplay and the people that defend it are the prime reason this game’s PvP will never go anywhere.

I’m done feeding the trolls.

JETWING.2759:

BlackBeard.2873:

Another I have seen that I really like:
Passive:
Gain X health per second (maybe 300)
Gain an additional Y health per second (Maybe 100) when within 450 range of an enemy
Active:
Heal Yourself

Still very warrior-like as it allows you to “stick in the fray” but lessens your ability to just run away, get back all your health so quick, and come back.

What happens in a fight against a ranged enemy? No heal?
:/
Range limit is an horrible and trolling idea, just stay over “x” range to disable warrior heal :/

Use your ranged weapon. Last time I checked control points werent 1200m in diameter.

The way warriors are designed in this game and many others, is to be a good introductory class. This says nothing about skill ceiling, only skill floor. In their current state, warriors are actually serving this purpose well. New players can enter into the game, equip themselves with strong yet easy-to-use skills like Healing Signet, Berserker’s Stance, Endure Pain etc. and perform well. This creates a problem, however, when such low-skill, high power abilities do not lose effectiveness as the player progresses into areas of the game that require more skill.

Here is a perfect example:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

but i enjoy playing a warrior, in sPvP (hotjoin 8 vs 8 whee) / PvE / WvW
previously i was playing a mesmer in sPvP, then a thief for a short while. then i reverted back to playing warrior in sPvP. i did not use healing signet though. i used the errr mending which heals for a bit and removes some conditions.
after i learned that healing signet was balanced, i used healing signet for my warrior in sPvP again. i felt so much happier! died less, still die sometimes unlike last time, died a lot. my warrior is able to sustain much better now. he is not god like and will still die. just doing better than last time.

This is a case of an “inexperienced” player who, at first, is doing ok. Nothing special. But then, he builds a certain way or equips a certain skill, performs better, has more fun (plays more as a result) and ultimately attributes his success to an increase in skill because of increased time played. Anyone who says otherwise, according to this player, is having a L2P issue. After all, that’s what he thinks he overcame himself. Either that or he has the insight to see from where his increased ability to perform is derived (Healing Signet) and fears for it being taken away.

If you have not seen it yet, I am essentially reiterating this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA#t=3m02s

Healing Signet, passive immunity builds are the quintessential definition of “FOO” strategies. They need to remain good, but become sub-optimal when players become skilled. When we see every warrior running around with these skills with little consequence at higher levels of play, it is apparent something is wrong. If you cannont recognize that, I’m afraid you are delusional.

From what I understand, top warriors desperately want the opportunity for skilled play. They constantly refer back to the good ol’ days of frenzy greatsword builds (ie. high risk, high reward play). The fact of the matter is, it is not rewarding to play as nor fun to play against an unstoppable force who kills you if it hits you once. Do not even begin to say that warriors become useless and easy kills after their immunities expire. Even at their point of “every skill on cooldown”, they are more mobile, deal more damage, and are more tanky than many classes when in the same situation.

Fixing this is not as simple as “nerf ____ by 20%” or “bring everything else warriors have up to snuff”. Warriors need to be given strong, active use skills that excel when used by a skillful player. It is a tough job and I do not envy those who have to do it, especially after seeing how worked up some people can become about topics like these.

My suggestion for nerfing this passive beast would be somewhere along the lines of the original GW1 heal sig.
Based on the current level of your adrenaline, gain xx to yy amount of hp. You have -500 toughness while using this skill, but block/reflect any ranged attacks.
Cast time: 2 seconds
Recharge: 25 seconds

The heal should be relatively high when on full adren (much like a mesmer’s efeast with 3 illusions up). The armor debuff is a trade-off in place to punish bad use.

bethekey.8314:

The way warriors are designed in this game and many others, is to be a good introductory class. This says nothing about skill ceiling, only skill floor. In their current state, warriors are actually serving this purpose well. New players can enter into the game, equip themselves with strong yet easy-to-use skills like Healing Signet, Berserker’s Stance, Endure Pain etc. and perform well. This creates a problem, however, when such low-skill, high power abilities do not lose effectiveness as the player progresses into areas of the game that require more skill.

Here is a perfect example:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

but i enjoy playing a warrior, in sPvP (hotjoin 8 vs 8 whee) / PvE / WvW
previously i was playing a mesmer in sPvP, then a thief for a short while. then i reverted back to playing warrior in sPvP. i did not use healing signet though. i used the errr mending which heals for a bit and removes some conditions.
after i learned that healing signet was balanced, i used healing signet for my warrior in sPvP again. i felt so much happier! died less, still die sometimes unlike last time, died a lot. my warrior is able to sustain much better now. he is not god like and will still die. just doing better than last time.

This is a case of an “inexperienced” player who, at first, is doing ok. Nothing special. But then, he builds a certain way or equips a certain skill, performs better, has more fun (plays more as a result) and ultimately attributes his success to an increase in skill because of increased time played. Anyone who says otherwise, according to this player, is having a L2P issue. After all, that’s what he thinks he overcame himself. Either that or he has the insight to see from where his increased ability to perform is derived (Healing Signet) and fears for it being taken away.

If you have not seen it yet, I am essentially reiterating this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6fVHZFjnmA#t=3m02s

Healing Signet, passive immunity builds are the quintessential definition of “FOO” strategies. They need to remain good, but become sub-optimal when players become skilled. When we see every warrior running around with these skills with little consequence at higher levels of play, it is apparent something is wrong. If you cannont recognize that, I’m afraid you are delusional.

From what I understand, top warriors desperately want the opportunity for skilled play. They constantly refer back to the good ol’ days of frenzy greatsword builds (ie. high risk, high reward play). The fact of the matter is, it is not rewarding to play as nor fun to play against an unstoppable force who kills you if it hits you once. Do not even begin to say that warriors become useless and easy kills after their immunities expire. Even at their point of “every skill on cooldown”, they are more mobile, deal more damage, and are more tanky than many classes when in the same situation.

Fixing this is not as simple as “nerf ____ by 20%” or “bring everything else warriors have up to snuff”. Warriors need to be given strong, active use skills that excel when used by a skillful player. It is a tough job and I do not envy those who have to do it, especially after seeing how worked up some people can become about topics like these.

This and so much of this!

The main problem with healing signet and if you compare it to the other heal skill signets. It is the ONLY signet heal skill that does not require active play to gain health, such as malic, ele signet where if they dont use their abilities, if they are stun locked, if they are running away(for the most part) they are not gaining any HPS what so ever.

The fact that warriors are saying oh just use poison… -_- I dont even have access to poison on the weapon set or traits i am running, and the only weapon set there is poison on my class has one ability that grants poison on very low RNG, with a 25-30 sec CD and a very clear tell of get out of there.. not to mention the low duration, 3(?) secs…

Warriors have the most sustain in game coupled with the already very LARGE HP pool as well as high toughness. It is not the hammer that needs a nerf(although i do agree on the 1200 odd range fire AoE is ridiculous on a point fight), because if the warr actually hits the target with hammer, they should be rewarded. the problem comes, in how easily the warrior can sustain the fight being full zerker, my damage rotation on both weapon sets on a full zerker, can not bring a warriors HP to lower the 30-40 % and before i can do this again, they are back to 80% even trying to wear them down slowly waiting for your burst is extremely hard…

but, it is working as intended.
warriors are supposed to be tanky, take a lot of damage before they die.
healing signet is finally allowing us to do that.

before this, people focus on warriors first because they die so fast.
now, people focus on warrior first as well, since they know they are hard to die, so they try to kill them first.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but, it is working as intended.
warriors are supposed to be tanky, take a lot of damage before they die.
healing signet is finally allowing us to do that.

before this, people focus on warriors first because they die so fast.
now, people focus on warrior first as well, since they know they are hard to die, so they try to kill them first.

The main issue is due to balance changes almost all warrior builds scale tanky DPS to near bunker. It has pretty much made every other warrior heal obsolete with the buffs that were received across the board.

As the situation is you could nerf it heavily but likely it would not be much use. The balance on this has to be taken carefully lest we want warrior back at the bottom of the bin. Overall defense is going to have to drop in both condi and Tanky DPS builds in order to balance this out. Long ago in an sotg before the big ele nerfs the devs said that heals need an opportunity to be interrupted. This heal due to warrior superior mobility and capability to get off a point heal up and return reminds us of DD ele. The same complaint but now after seeing the pitiful state they had ele in (and really it is still in a crappy place) they are hesitating to balance this. Sad part is small tweaks lead to big changes and I think the devs have gotten cold feet because of that.

healing signet by itself,is not OP,but when you add in 15 trait points into toughness line,u get the adrenal passive healing at 360hp.
Add the 400hp from signet and 360hp from adrenal,u get nearly 800hp passive regen, as good as ranger active heal skill,troll unguent(but this skill has 25 seconds CD and only last for 10 seconds) warrior passive heal is forever unless he press the wrong button.

instead of fixing the signet,we can just fix the trait.

15 trait Points into toughness- Improves healing based on adrenaline level by sacrificing Power and Condition Damage.

If traited with 15 points to adrenal health, Healing signet will heal X amount of HP at 1 adrenaline bar,Y amount at 2 bar,and Z amount at 3 bar. For every bar, a fixed% increment of healing is applied and the same fixed% decrement to power and conditon dmg is applied.

This would be a better balance to dmg and healing,

glaphen.5230:

You mean just like the thief signet but better? I guess that’s one way to fix the off hand axe and break the meta further. Healing signet is fine as it is, nerfing it to please whiners should only come with huge buffs to the other heals.

LOL being able to heal yourself for 400+hps with 0 healing power is not “fine,” it’s dumb. Healing signet was perfectly fine before the buff, it was the best heal to take for bunker/support builds. Just like Mending and Healing Surge were better for DPS builds.

The fact that nobody will even want to take anything to Healing Signet is a clear indication that it is overpowered as kitten.

On a sidenote, I actually like the idea that is proposed and giving it more active play, rewarding good mechanics.

actually it is 392 health per second with 0 healing power.
it is 392 + 15 = 407 health per second with 300 healing power.

well, it certainly made warriors more tankier.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

healing signet by itself,is not OP,but when you add in 15 trait points into toughness line,u get the adrenal passive healing at 360hp.
Add the 400hp from signet and 360hp from adrenal,u get nearly 800hp passive regen,

I don’t want to be rude, so here is free tip – read description of trait first instead of making such posts. Pretty please.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

15 trait Points into toughness- Improves healing based on adrenaline level by sacrificing Power and Condition Damage.

Nerf everyone who takes this trait, regardless of healing skill slotted. Great idea indeed.

Thedenofsin.7340:

My concern with purely passive regeneration is that it has no counter play: there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Poison slows it down, but that also works on normal heals, and normal heals can be interrupted. The signet cannot.

I believe that if you remove the existing counter play with a passive regeneration signet, you need to replace it with a different kind of counter play. It makes the game more interesting.

Additionally, CC such as stuns are rewarding enough in themselves: the idea that while you’ve incapacitated your opponent you are passively healing for 400hp/sec seems downright broken.

However a warrior getting 400hp/sec in regen because he’s doing a great job of sticking on someone and smacking the holy heck out of him/her sounds more balanced. The better the warrior is at staying on target and damaging, the better his healing gets.

This is why I’m partial to the heal-while-dealing-damage signet: teamwork and coordination will help the warrior stay on target, which helps keep the warrior healed. Conversely, dodging and CC can act as good counter play to the signet.

For example, look at the Necromancer’s Blood Fiend. You can CC it, dodge it or kill it to counteract the Necromancer’s passive regen. That’s good counter play. The Healing Signet needs its own counter play outside of just ‘poison’.

Poison slows it down. So does bleeding, burning…in fact any condition that does damage per tick negates Healing signet. Most conditions will apply 120 dmg per tick. So if you can keep 1 bleed, some burning and a average up time on poison you are already on top of healing sig regardless of whatever physical damage you’re doing. The question is now who can do this condition stacking?..necro/thief/warrior/engineer/mesmer/ele….but it is not like they can do it from ranged, because that would be OP unto itself. Range is one of the greatest defense mechanisms one can have..they can’t hit you..they can’t hurt you..oh, my bad..all of these professions can do this at range. Sigil of doom just ensures that poison can be added to the list if you are lacking it.

the problem stated is 400ish healing per second..as a warrior player there is definite windows where healing sign does not tick every second and take s a handful of moments to start rolling again. Look to the abilities you have that counter it. regen is counter by degen. Power is countered by toughness. Knockdown by stability. Boons by boon removal/hate. People are looking for complicated means to counter something that is unto itself very easy to counter. A lot of the problem is players are comfortable with their builds and don’t want to change or try playing a different profession. Tye warrior has been adjusted, their play style vs warriors has not.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Thedenofsin.7340:

My concern with purely passive regeneration is that it has no counter play: there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Poison slows it down, but that also works on normal heals, and normal heals can be interrupted. The signet cannot.

I believe that if you remove the existing counter play with a passive regeneration signet, you need to replace it with a different kind of counter play. It makes the game more interesting.

Additionally, CC such as stuns are rewarding enough in themselves: the idea that while you’ve incapacitated your opponent you are passively healing for 400hp/sec seems downright broken.

However a warrior getting 400hp/sec in regen because he’s doing a great job of sticking on someone and smacking the holy heck out of him/her sounds more balanced. The better the warrior is at staying on target and damaging, the better his healing gets.

This is why I’m partial to the heal-while-dealing-damage signet: teamwork and coordination will help the warrior stay on target, which helps keep the warrior healed. Conversely, dodging and CC can act as good counter play to the signet.

For example, look at the Necromancer’s Blood Fiend. You can CC it, dodge it or kill it to counteract the Necromancer’s passive regen. That’s good counter play. The Healing Signet needs its own counter play outside of just ‘poison’.

Poison slows it down. So does bleeding, burning…in fact any condition that does damage per tick negates Healing signet. Most conditions will apply 120 dmg per tick. So if you can keep 1 bleed, some burning and a average up time on poison you are already on top of healing sig regardless of whatever physical damage you’re doing. The question is now who can do this condition stacking?..necro/thief/warrior/engineer/mesmer/ele….but it is not like they can do it from ranged, because that would be OP unto itself. Range is one of the greatest defense mechanisms one can have..they can’t hit you..they can’t hurt you..oh, my bad..all of these professions can do this at range. Sigil of doom just ensures that poison can be added to the list if you are lacking it.

the problem stated is 400ish healing per second..as a warrior player there is definite windows where healing sign does not tick every second and take s a handful of moments to start rolling again. Look to the abilities you have that counter it. regen is counter by degen. Power is countered by toughness. Knockdown by stability. Boons by boon removal/hate. People are looking for complicated means to counter something that is unto itself very easy to counter. A lot of the problem is players are comfortable with their builds and don’t want to change or try playing a different profession. Tye warrior has been adjusted, their play style vs warriors has not.

And you obviously read through the thread and what i wrote, as a zerker mesmer. The ONLY condition i have is bleeds, that tick at 42.5 dps that deals 213 damage over 5 secs. HS heals for (no healing power) 1960 over 5 secs..

even if i managed to keep a constant 9 stacks of bleeding(which is never going to happen), that would still be out healing that damage. This does not stop the warrior from out running the mesmer either. The problem is the way the passive heal is warrated, with no active play granting your heals, just brain dead mechanic of slot and forget.

Poor zerker mesmer only does 200 dps of the 400 hps Healing Signet with bleeds qqqq. Good thing you have all that power and crit damage doing 9 6 7 2 3 5 9 2 when applying those bleeds. Wait are you saying you afk while clones stack bleeds on crit and are complaining you cant out dps Healing Signet with a zerker build? You could easily out dps it with a condition build with clones too, maybe try to do a condition build and then afk with your clones next time? Should be easily doing over 1,000 dps with the auto attack alone on a zerker build.

Rednik.3809:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

healing signet by itself,is not OP,but when you add in 15 trait points into toughness line,u get the adrenal passive healing at 360hp.
Add the 400hp from signet and 360hp from adrenal,u get nearly 800hp passive regen,

I don’t want to be rude, so here is free tip – read description of trait first instead of making such posts. Pretty please.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

15 trait Points into toughness- Improves healing based on adrenaline level by sacrificing Power and Condition Damage.

Nerf everyone who takes this trait, regardless of healing skill slotted. Great idea indeed.

Yups,i did. Not sure what ur getting at though.

Regenerate health based on adrenaline level.

Healing.png Adrenaline level 1 healing: 125
Healing.png Adrenaline level 2 healing: 240
Healing.png Adrenaline level 3 healing: 360
— In-game description

[edit] Notes
Triggers on an interval of 3 seconds (not shown as a trait fact).

For ur second point, all classes have a healing skill slotted,it cannot be removed,its the button “6” on the default key bind. Its an idea where balance means,more healing should come at a price. Having high dps,high healing,high tougness is not balanced.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Rednik.3809:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

healing signet by itself,is not OP,but when you add in 15 trait points into toughness line,u get the adrenal passive healing at 360hp.
Add the 400hp from signet and 360hp from adrenal,u get nearly 800hp passive regen,

I don’t want to be rude, so here is free tip – read description of trait first instead of making such posts. Pretty please.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

15 trait Points into toughness- Improves healing based on adrenaline level by sacrificing Power and Condition Damage.

Nerf everyone who takes this trait, regardless of healing skill slotted. Great idea indeed.

Yups,i did. Not sure what ur getting at though.

Regenerate health based on adrenaline level.

Healing.png Adrenaline level 1 healing: 125
Healing.png Adrenaline level 2 healing: 240
Healing.png Adrenaline level 3 healing: 360
— In-game description

[edit] Notes
Triggers on an interval of 3 seconds (not shown as a trait fact).

For ur second point, all classes have a healing skill slotted,it cannot be removed,its the button “6” on the default key bind. Its an idea where balance means,more healing should come at a price. Having high dps,high healing,high tougness is not balanced.

Yes, adrenal health is hardly ever providing much healing because we use adrenalin as soon as it is available for the most part to rid ourselves of the million nasty conditions coming our way. You know what? Take it. You can have adrenal health for the low low price of a 15% buff to all my heals. Guess which one is going to be more healing for me?

glaphen.5230:

Poor zerker mesmer only does 200 dps of the 400 hps Healing Signet with bleeds qqqq. Good thing you have all that power and crit damage doing 9 6 7 2 3 5 9 2 when applying those bleeds. Wait are you saying you afk while clones stack bleeds on crit and are complaining you cant out dps Healing Signet with a zerker build? You could easily out dps it with a condition build with clones too, maybe try to do a condition build and then afk with your clones next time? Should be easily doing over 1,000 dps with the auto attack alone on a zerker build.

Hahaha, troll as much as you like bro! I am not one bit phased..
You obviously dont know how it works, even bursting on a warrior does not get more than 60% hp away and then having to wait till the next burst arises the warriors HP is back up again. That is with optimal conditions. I am not saying i cant beat warriors using heal sig, most of them play like nubz anyway, such braindeadness. much op.

Before you judge a persons playstyle, you may want to view it first. Just saying, you look like someone who knows nothing from that previous post.

GG

redslion.9675:

He meant that before buffs warriors were severely outsustained by most builds. That’s one reason why warrs were so easy to beat.

A shame though since in my opinion, the reason the PvP in this game is so boring is because there’s too much sustained healing in the game, not too little.

But changing that would probably be too massive for the tiny PvP balance team and would destroy PvE in the process.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

runeblade.7514:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Healing Signet is most definitely not fine. The people who truly believe this are the ones who are using it as a crutch: there is no gameplay to it, there is no counterplay to it and it allows warriors to mindlessly tank damage without consideration to skillful gameplay.
Quite simply, the Healing Signet is PvP for dummies.

There is a counterplay.

High DPS and High pressure. The warrior has to actively fight to survive.

You will say, Endure pain. Then use condis. You say Berserker stance, then use CC. You say stability. Then you win. He activated all his defensive skills. Kite him for 8 seconds and you win. He has zero protection to save himself. If you play any other profession, you probably have mobility to escape the Hambow.

After the 8 seconds, Everyone focuses the warrior and the warrior becomes helpless. The warrior becomes a punching bag and will eventually die.

I have zero problems with killing warriors and the only time I feel invincible when playing Warrior is when weaker players are trying to brute force against me. The more skillful players keep their distance until they know all my defenses are down to instagib me. The more skillful players dodge every key attack as I helplessly attempt to fight back.

Maybe, I am just wasting my time. Maybe this thread is a L2P issue. Maybe, you don’t want to learn how to kill these OP warriors. You probably want to mindlessly kill warriors with no effort.

aye, truths and facts. this is.

endure pain
duration 4 seconds, 60 seconds recharge time, 56 seconds down time.
still affected by conditions.

berserker stance
duration 8 seconds, 10 seconds with sure footed stance
60 seconds recharge time, 52 seconds or 50 seconds down time
still takes non condition damage

they have trouble putting down a warrior within 50 seconds?

With 3 conditions removed every 7.something seconds and 510ish passive regen that is not shearable, yes, some condition classes will have problem killing it in 50s. You will have to pressure to make the warrior pop zerker stance afterwards you will have to kite for 8s and in the end have 50s to kill 20+k hp where your most powerful condi (perma burn) is ~75% nullified by passive regen and you popped your cds to pressure the warrior. Add in some regen from Dogged march (or other [self-]sources) .
Not forgetting all the time the warrior will have high pressure on you with potential five hit kills (not everyone has stab, not everyone has perma vigor and on top not all warrior skills have tells like hammer f1 (yes, im looking at e.g. bow 5)).

Think about it, in a game with too much damage (condi and direct) a class has too much sustain. The heal signet makes it way too little risk vs high reward.

It’s not “Warrior like” as you state, since it’s a copy-paste of Thief healing skill as other stated.

Since Warrior is called like that because he likes to fight, it should be something like (imho):
- small heal per second while in combat state (like now but quite lower, like 200 hp)
- small heal on each successful attack (like 70 hp)
- very small heal when struck (like 35 hp)

Scaling with Healing Power… don’t know really XD This was just an idea I got, but didn’t think about details yet.

Reduce its base value , increase the scaling from Healing power . There fixed

Empyre.2531:

With 3 conditions removed every 7.something seconds and 510ish passive regen that is not shearable

Can you share that cheat code on unlimited adrenaline and free access in any build to 20pts in defense and 30 in discipline lines? I want to be cheater too.

Healing Signet
X activation time
Y cool down
Signet Passive: Increases healing power stat by Z
Signet Active: Heal yourself while granting regeneration.

Personally, I think HS is overpowered in 1v1’s. I’ve always liked the thought that it’d scale the amount it healed per sec depending on how many enemies were in a certain radius. GW2 seems to suffer from a disparity in how skills scale with the size of a fight. Invulnerability is just as good in 1v1 as 50v50, but try saying the same about healing signet and death shroud for example.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Signet Passive: Increases healing power stat by Z.

Ehm… guys, we give you healing power increase, but only if you not using healing?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

but, it is working as intended.
warriors are supposed to be tanky, take a lot of damage before they die.
healing signet is finally allowing us to do that.

before this, people focus on warriors first because they die so fast.
now, people focus on warrior first as well, since they know they are hard to die, so they try to kill them first.

Warrior aways was an easy target (alone and irremovable), before they die fast, very fast, now they are few, few, harder to kill, but still easy with appropriate strategy.

- Before the every brainless enemy just face and hits to warriors unable to sustain in fight come fall down.
- Now warriors have a (only one of three) satisfactory heal skill, and the old strategy of charge and hit fearless do not work more, now requires minimal strategy and caution. As they (foes, enemies…) do not want adapt or review their play stile to actual meta, they just comes here and QQ to nerf, nerf and nerf.

Healing signet now is too much passive, active option is pratically useless.

I’d make a better balance between active and passive options, so more heal when you active the signet but less heal when it’s passive.

Scaling with healing power.

Rednik.3809:

Amstel Steel.2058:

Signet Passive: Increases healing power stat by Z.

Ehm… guys, we give you healing power increase, but only if you not using healing?

Only if you are not using your healing skill. Reason why I read about the competitive scene taking two warriors is because the current healing signet is too much on top of everything else. Slightly comparing apples to oranges with this example but what if instead of the necros signet of spite increasing power it dealt low damage every second. Stand alone it would not be op but on top of everything else it may be a bad design.

Also you didn’t quote my entire suggestion which I left variables aside to focus on the mechanics. Healing signet that passively grants healing power would synergize with warriors running with healing power to begin with instead of a raw hps gain. The activation time and cool down as well as the amount of health gained and the duration of the regeneration would balance it all out while being different enough from the other heals to open them back up at a more efficiency per build role standpoint.

Even if the majority of community’s perception on the current healing signet was that it was not op it still promotes passive play instead of active play. Then again maybe it should just be adjusted if needed instead of changing it since new skills should be on the way.

Healing Signet

• Passive healing reduced from 392 to 200.
• Now, when this skill activates, you gain protection and regeneration based on your adrenaline levels.
  • Protection per adrenaline bar: 1½ seconds
  • Regeneration per adrenaline bar: 3 seconds

Swagg.9236:

Healing Signet

• Passive healing reduced from 392 to 200.
• Now, when this skill activates, you gain protection and regeneration based on your adrenaline levels.
  • Protection per adrenaline bar: 1½ seconds
  • Regeneration per adrenaline bar: 3 seconds

So when you activate it you actualy heal less :O?I think im gonna have a neck leisure soon from all the noding for these riduculous,outrageous and terrible “sugestions”. Just stay out of the forums with this garbage already.

mini.6018:

So when you activate it you actualy heal less :O?I think im gonna have a neck leisure soon from all the noding for these riduculous,outrageous and terrible “sugestions”. Just stay out of the forums with this garbage already.

Atleast half of them are still better than anything the devs can muster up :P

It is a simple numbers tweak . 200 was far too weak , 400 is OP . Somewhere in between , say 300-350 would be perfectly reasonable . Then increase both the passive and active scaling with healing power