Guild Wars 2

Just tossing the topic in advance cause if you don’t remove it from the rated arena queue (post 2 dec), this patch will not be an improvement to spvp but it will totally ruin it. Cause all you need to ruin the experience of many players is 1 premade group of trolls that pick skyhammer as favorite map. They’d force a 50% chance for skyhammer to spawn by themselves. And players who now use tpvp to avoid skyhammer won’t be able to avoid that map anymore.

And don’t underestimate the number of players belong to that field.

This whole update is actually just an elaborate excuse to reintroduce Skyhammy in team arenas.

Grump.7069:

Just tossing the topic in advance cause if you don’t remove it from the rated arena queue (post 2 dec), this patch will not be an improvement to spvp but it will totally ruin it. Cause all you need to ruin the experience of many players is 1 premade group of trolls that pick skyhammer as favorite map. They’d force a 50% chance for skyhammer to spawn by themselves. And players who now use tpvp to avoid skyhammer won’t be able to avoid that map anymore.

And don’t underestimate the number of players belong to that field.

So you’re saying that we shouldn’t let the majority be affected by the decisions of players who may also be.. the majority?

l2p

Mhh with the introduction of a voting system skyhammer shouldnt happen unless someone votes for it…

I like Skyhammer.

Muchacho.2390:

Mhh with the introduction of a voting system skyhammer shouldnt happen unless someone votes for it…

And in addition, skyhammer and spirit won’t able to be selected during the seasons.

I think anet will use only foefire, nifhelm, temple and khylo during the seasons (devs said no casual maps during the seasons).

Rothem.8174:

Grump.7069:

Just tossing the topic in advance cause if you don’t remove it from the rated arena queue (post 2 dec), this patch will not be an improvement to spvp but it will totally ruin it. Cause all you need to ruin the experience of many players is 1 premade group of trolls that pick skyhammer as favorite map. They’d force a 50% chance for skyhammer to spawn by themselves. And players who now use tpvp to avoid skyhammer won’t be able to avoid that map anymore.

And don’t underestimate the number of players belong to that field.

So you’re saying that we shouldn’t let the majority be affected by the decisions of players who may also be.. the majority?

l2p

We shouldn’t let anyone be affected by maps that are inherently flawed and are not acceptable for inclusion in ranked PvP.

Even if folks can’t change to specifically designed team builds for Skyhammer and Spirit Watch, since they’ll be locked as the professions they queued as... the maps are still affected *far* more by teamcomp than is reasonable.

Currently, skyham happens 1/6 or 16% of time.

Maybe

Once a month. 1/30

A group of actualy good players in your rating range that you will actually be matched against. 1/?

Will have a 50% chance. 1/2

And they still may lose and get tired of it fast….

Bassically. If you count all that in we will all see far less skyham. I predict 3% max for skyham metrics, yes they will measure it.

Some people actually like skyhammer, and not because they are trolls. I happen to be one of them – and since I play mesmer, not the best kb/fear classes out there, its not even something I take advantange of the way a fear spammer or hambow might, for instance.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I should have the right to play maps I enjoy too.

Morfedel.4165:

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I should have the right to play maps I enjoy too.

Yall dumb, the new arenas are voted maps.

If Skyhammer is really the most hated map it will never be chosen, so you have nothing to worry about.

The only thing you have to worry about is playing Legacy of the FoeFire again and again and AGAIN.

Huge outcry from community to remove it from soloQ.

Now it will be apart of the new rankedQ (which includes teamQ)

k……….

I think that premade vs premade shouldnt have this vote system.

Because every team will play only 1 map that they are prepared for (50% chances)

They can make a premade group that is insanely op at skyhammer and win half of their matches..

Morfedel.4165:

Some people actually like skyhammer, and not because they are trolls. I happen to be one of them – and since I play mesmer, not the best kb/fear classes out there, its not even something I take advantange of the way a fear spammer or hambow might, for instance.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I should have the right to play maps I enjoy too.

The map is really fun, and I’d love to see it in all ranked play, were it not for two things:

- falling to death
- importance of the hammer

Falling to death can not be fair in the combat system that GW2 has. It just won’t be, ever. Control abilities are not evenly spread across the professions, since control is only one aspect of combat, so making it disproportionately powerful (by removing the need to deal damage to secure a kill) immediately makes some professions more effective than others. This is not okay.

Most of the problem with the hammer being so important is that it’s in an easy-to-defend location, with maximum power given to setups that abuse the aforementioned instant kills.

The map layout is generally great, but is hugely marred by a couple of very poor design choices that have been stuck to without any sensible reason put forward.

Morfedel.4165:

Some people actually like skyhammer, and not because they are trolls. I happen to be one of them – and since I play mesmer, not the best kb/fear classes out there, its not even something I take advantange of the way a fear spammer or hambow might, for instance.

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I should have the right to play maps I enjoy too.

Sure, but it doesn’t belong in rated play.

Whenever I que solo and get matched against a proper team. OKAY GUYS VOTE SKYHAMMER.

As I see it, you either remove being able to switch characters / builds once a match is found, or you remove Skyhammer entirely from the ranked rotation.
Skyhammer is extremely inconsistent compared to all the other maps as certain builds are far more superior than a build that would work on all other maps. Being able to gain an advantage just by switching to certain specific characters / builds for this map, just proves that this map does not belong in ranked at all.

If I understand correctly, OP is worried that he will be forced to play on a map that, according to him, no one likes? How will it get chosen then?

Seriously though, it’s true that Skyhammer requires different builds and a different team comp than the other maps, so I again claim here my desire that the players be offered some time in the beginning of the game to switch professions if they want to. And of course, build templates would be nice.

Blackwyn.8127:

As I see it, you either remove being able to switch characters / builds once a match is found, or you remove Skyhammer entirely from the ranked rotation.
Skyhammer is extremely inconsistent compared to all the other maps as certain builds are far more superior than a build that would work on all other maps. Being able to gain an advantage just by switching to certain specific characters / builds for this map, just proves that this map does not belong in ranked at all.

I don’t think that ranked matches mean that you can just choose one build and run it in every comp on every map. Have you ever tried to play on Battle of Khylo with a full condi team? But again, don’t like Skyhammer, don’t vote for Skyhammer.

yo do you mean to tell me I’ve not played for practically a year and skyhammer S T I L L hasn’t been removed? ayy lmao

Blackwyn.8127:

As I see it, you either remove being able to switch characters / builds once a match is found, or you remove Skyhammer entirely from the ranked rotation.
Skyhammer is extremely inconsistent compared to all the other maps as certain builds are far more superior than a build that would work on all other maps. Being able to gain an advantage just by switching to certain specific characters / builds for this map, just proves that this map does not belong in ranked at all.

Legacy of the foefire is quite the same to be honest. Parties of thieves and necros aren’t going to do much against warriors engineers and eles sitting on 2 points..

Now, i’m not going to really disagree with your point, but it’s not like you’re winning that easily( i.e 500-100) , with skyhammer dedicated builds against " other maps meta builds "

Anet LOVES their Cheesehammer. You know it, you can’t make them change their minds. They even do these half measures to make it seem less cheesy.

Take Hotjoins for example. Scorpionwire/Tricks traited thieves, Rifle/Flamethrower engis will purposely ONLY join Skyhammer. The cheese is high, and Anet LOVES their cheese.

I refuse to play skyhammer. If it pops, I will not join the game.

I do not get why ANET is so hard-headed about this map. If people don’t enjoy the map, why are you forcing them to play it?

Cheese is spot on on my concerns regarding skyhammer. I loathe there’s a map that’s purely based around pulling and pushing people into little holes or off edges for cheesy 5 points all the time. Be honest, that’s ALL that happens in skyhammer, a bunch of pushes and pulls. It’s not skillful playing, it’s being kittening lucky to have a team that knows how to abuse it best. If there was a layer underneath the main layer where people drop onto if they get knocked off the edges (aka no cheesy 5 points) i wouldn’t mind skyhammer’s presence in the rotation. However since anet refuses to understand that this is the real problem of skyhammer, it shouldn’t be in a ranked rotation.

Sorel on the other hand, doesn’t have a friggin idea at what i’m talking about. if i was afraid of skyhammer cause noone liked it, i wouldn’t mention this issue, cause if noone liked it, i could sleep on my 2 ears on the fact noone would ever pick this. However i know there are a handful of players who love this map. On the contrary i know there are a crapload of players like me who hate skyhammer so much that we prefer to fully pug tpvp (aka queue up by ourselves solo for team pvp, because solo pvp turns up too much as skyhammer). At this point peeps who wanted to do skyhammer for ranked pvp had their queue to infest, and people like me had our exile in the harsher tpvp queue. But after 2/12 there’s a chance we bump into teams that purposely will be aiming for their skyhammer. Which means skyhammer won’t be completely avoidable anymore for peeps who don’t wanna see it at all.

tl;dr: Keep skyhammer out of the rotation, until you fix the cheesiness of getting 5 points per kill using a pull/push off the edge by adding a new “floor” underneath the main field where people are dropped onto and need to run to a specific point to jump up to main area.

Sorel.4870:

Blackwyn.8127:

As I see it, you either remove being able to switch characters / builds once a match is found, or you remove Skyhammer entirely from the ranked rotation.
Skyhammer is extremely inconsistent compared to all the other maps as certain builds are far more superior than a build that would work on all other maps. Being able to gain an advantage just by switching to certain specific characters / builds for this map, just proves that this map does not belong in ranked at all.

I don’t think that ranked matches mean that you can just choose one build and run it in every comp on every map. Have you ever tried to play on Battle of Khylo with a full condi team? But again, don’t like Skyhammer, don’t vote for Skyhammer.

You don’t understand how the voting works. Even if only 1 person votes for a map, there is still a chance to get it.

And those of you saying ’the vote system makes sure everyone gets a chance to play on their favourite maps’: yes, and this is a good thing, for most maps.

It’s not that we just don’t find Skyhammer to be fun, though.

It’s that we believe Skyhammer is not fit to be used for ranked PvP. Not while it allows players to get kills while dealing 0 (or very little) damage with a bunkery build.

Justin ODell.9517:

cheese.4739:

It’s that we believe Skyhammer is not fit to be used for ranked PvP. Not while it allows players to get kills while dealing 0 (or very little) damage with a bunkery build.

There will be a limited set of maps available during the season. All maps will only be available during off-season play.

John mentions that in his post, but doesn’t specify the maps.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-improvements-to-pvp-and-the-ladder-test-season/

To fill in the missing info, the limited maps = tournament configuration maps… meaning not Skyhammer or Spirit Watch.

Thanks for the clarification, this is very good to hear.

Justin ODell.9517:

Marcos.3690:

They can make a premade group that is insanely op at skyhammer and win half of their matches..

Less than 50%, probably closer to 30% if they don’t adapt. You’re given 3 maps to vote on, and which 3 is chosen randomly, so there’s chance any map won’t even be a choice.

30% is not as good as 0%. Just Sayin’.

Thought Skyhammer would not be included and that is true. I love the map and I run a guardian with no stability and only one effect that can knock people down a hole and it’s Shield of Absorption with limited range and long cool down. I really don’t get grabbed and pulled down a hole or pushed down a hole much because I pay attention to where I’m at. I would like a much greater verity of maps for normal play. And would love to have a set of water maps for people like me who greatly enjoy the challenge of 3d combat. Sticking to a very limited set of maps for normal play because some players can’t deal with a extra challenge risks driving the rest away from boredom.

If I understand well..the good thing (sarcasm) is that you will not be able to switch to another (cheesy) profession when skyhammer pops up….because of dc penalty.

Anet finaly found a way to buff necro

Justin ODell.9517:

Pixels.6532:

30% is not as good as 0%. Just Sayin’.

Actually, it’s 25%, I was corrected in another thread. Dropping trolling from 100% to 25% with one feature? I’d count that as a win, but you can’t please everyone.

Justin,

Here are my thoughts…

1. Thanks for replying in this and other threads. I appreciate it!

2. Thanks for all your hard work. I’m guessing you and Evan have put a ton of effort into these changes and they address a lot of the specific issues the community has raised and things look really bright coming Dec. 2.

3. Except for Skyhammer! Even with the recent changes, which do improve it, it still isn’t a conquest map. It’s still too trolly. Why not revert the changes and host your own custom arenas with 24/7 Ham? You could put up 10 or so custom arenas that just ran the old skyhammer.

Again, thanks for your work regardless of what happens with skyham.

Make Skyhammer so player cant fall down off the map from the edge but only through the glass and it will be viable in ranked too …

well, if they choose skyhammer to troll with a build, then they will have to change class and with the new system is a loss and get dishonor

I don’t mind skyhammer, personally.

The only map that I can honestly say I “dislike” is Spirit Watch.

style.6173:

I refuse to play skyhammer. If it pops, I will not join the game.

Good, then you can get dishonor and stay out of sPvP.

style.6173:

I do not get why ANET is so hard-headed about this map. If people don’t enjoy the map, why are you forcing them to play it?

Speak for yourself, there are many of us who enjoy Skyhammer.

Blackari.2051:

Make Skyhammer so player cant fall down off the map from the edge but only through the glass and it will be viable in ranked too …

It’s almost impossible to get knocked off the edge if you don’t stand next to an edge with no rim, even without stability or stun breakers.

TBH, if I was on a team in queue that got matched against a team like Abjured/Absurd and Skyhammer was on the vote list, I’d be tempted to pick it just to give my team a better chance at trolling since the map is still relatively imbalanced.

I don’t really see Skyhammer in Ranked Queue being that big of a problem though, since it only has like a 50% chance of being on the map selections, and then probably like a 10% chance of being picked if it is on there, meaning an overall 5% of games played on skyhammer.

Justin ODell.9517:

To fill in the missing info, the limited maps = tournament configuration maps… meaning not Skyhammer or Spirit Watch.

Why are these two maps still excluded anyway? At this point, they both seem well enough balanced to be included in on-season too.

PS This is a question for Justin, not an invitation for anti-skyhammer trolls to attack me.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Justin ODell.9517:

To fill in the missing info, the limited maps = tournament configuration maps... meaning not Skyhammer or Spirit Watch.

Why are these two maps still excluded anyway? At this point, they both seem well enough balanced to be included in on-season too.

PS This is a question for Justin, not an invitation for anti-skyhammer trolls to attack me.

They have one serious thing in common: a shared secondary objective that both teams will almost always need to pay attention to for the whole game.
None of the other maps have this; the closest is Temple, which has the poweful Stillness and Tranquility buffs spawning at predetermined intervals, allowing the main focus of the teams to usually still be on capping and holding points.

I’ll note here that yes, the Skyhammer is rather less brokenly powerful than it was previously... but it’s still a point-and-click nuke, which gives commanding views of the entire map, with only one (buggy) access point.

It doesn’t help that both of their shared secondary objectives are *far* easier to use to your advantage with certain classes - and particular builds - in your team.
What do you hope for on Skyhammer? A hammer-holder of some description, unless you plan to do that yourself. What do you want on Spirit Watch? An orbrunning Guard or Warrior (though I’ve seen a couple of Engineers with the shoes again recently).

It’s possible to build specifically for these maps far more than it is for the others, and in ranked play a lot of people (including myself) would argue that this is unfair.

Y’know how the game was designed around giving everyone a heal skill, to remove the need for dedicated healing classes? That effective support was designed to be active and short-range in almost all cases?
I’m pretty sure this is so that teams don’t have to bring certain roles with them to do well.
Introducing maps that severely impair teams who don’t bring specific, map-oriented roles? That’s reducing diversity right there - and it’s giving those who do bring them a hefty advantage.
With only five players in a party, having to dedicate even one to a specific task severely limits variety.

Lol we should just give skyhammer, spirit, and courtyard (2v2 or 3v3) their own queue. That would probubly please everyone.

can we get more maps and game modes please?

^ no idea how anyone is that unhappy about the upcoming patch. It was all good news to me.

Skyhammer is also not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, especially since the last update to skyhammer.

Roe.3679:

^ no idea how anyone is that unhappy about the upcoming patch. It was all good news to me.

Skyhammer is also not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, especially since the last update to skyhammer.

Then you clearly aren’t taking a good look at what’s about to hit. I’m not unhappy about the entire patch, just some very obvious flaws that are going to further hinder this game.

Vicariuz.1605:

(…)

Justin’s not the one responsible for the bad ideas, he merely executes them.

Vicariuz.1605:

Roe.3679:

^ no idea how anyone is that unhappy about the upcoming patch. It was all good news to me.

Skyhammer is also not nearly as bad as people make it out to be, especially since the last update to skyhammer.

Then you clearly aren’t taking a good look at what’s about to hit. I’m not unhappy about the entire patch, just some very obvious flaws that are going to further hinder this game.

Feel free to elaborate. You wanted more game modes I guess? Or is it mostly all covered in your diatribe about skyhammer in your previous post?

Im sorry remove skyhammer. For the that matter remove spirit watch too. TERRIBLE MAPS imo. Capricorn was better. oO. I don’t think Capricorn really has a place in ranked. However neither do skyhammer or spirits for that matter. Please accept that these maps fail. Leave them In Hotjoins and that’s it

The devs aren’t going to remove skyhammer. They just wont. I didn’t really care about this whole thing until I got 13 matches of which 1 forest 7 skyhammer and 5 spirit watches.