Guild Wars 2

Is it intended that Spectral Wall also fears you when you try to dodge through it? That’s pretty ridiculous and I don’t think any other wall type spell has an effect when you dodge through it.

Line of warding

I like how they balance, instead of applying torment when foes go across it they decided to add a fear

Ring of Warding.

Hicci.8761:

Line of warding

Chase.8415:

I like how they balance, instead of applying torment when foes go across it they decided to add a fear

To compensate for corrupt boon nerf. Also:
-5 sec duration
-easily avoidable,
-“immune” against anyone with teleport/stability/stunbreaker
- 45 sec cooldown.

It’s supposed to be an area denial skill. If you could dodge through Spectral Wall it would be pointless. It’s meant to be the Necro version of Line/Ring of Warding (which you can’t dodge through either).

Skyro.3108:

It’s supposed to be an area denial skill. If you could dodge through Spectral Wall it would be pointless. It’s meant to be the Necro version of Line/Ring of Warding (which you can’t dodge through either).

Don’t forget:

Static Field ^^

Poplolita.2638:

Chase.8415:

I like how they balance, instead of applying torment when foes go across it they decided to add a fear

To compensate for corrupt boon nerf. Also:
-5 sec duration
-easily avoidable,
-“immune” against anyone with teleport/stability/stunbreaker
- 45 sec cooldown.

It still applies protection, the skill simply does way to much.

Before the patch I could seriously run any comp with my friends and win, now it’s pretty much required to have at least 2 necromancers.

Dunno, sometimes seems like I can dodge, sometimes I get feared while dodging. Maybe it’s my imagination, or maybe my roll ended right into the wall.

redslion.9675:

Dunno, sometimes seems like I can dodge, sometimes I get feared while dodging. Maybe it’s my imagination, or maybe my roll ended right into the wall.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Yeah, but it was said I could still dodge through the wall.

I’m not whining or something, just still don’t know if this is a possibility or not.

I know I can use stability. Obviously I paid attention about what happened while I didn’t have it on.

Chase.8415:

Poplolita.2638:

Chase.8415:

I like how they balance, instead of applying torment when foes go across it they decided to add a fear

To compensate for corrupt boon nerf. Also:
-5 sec duration
-easily avoidable,
-“immune” against anyone with teleport/stability/stunbreaker
- 45 sec cooldown.

It still applies protection, the skill simply does way to much.

Before the patch I could seriously run any comp with my friends and win, now it’s pretty much required to have at least 2 necromancers.

At this point, I just feel like you want dhuumfire+terror build to not get nerfed. Let’s, instead, nerf a utility skill that will probably screw every non condition and condition with no dhuumfire, shall we… It’s either dhuumfire or terror that need to get nerfed. I highly doubt removing fear from a situationallypowerful utility spell will fix the problem.

Necros are not that strong. They were balanced and you see this in tpvp. With a good team the necro is CC’d so hard they can’t lift a middle finger and they lack the mobility to escape hard situations. Fear is countered with stability and stun breakers. Just have to avoid wells and you are golden.

XGhoul.7426:

redslion.9675:

Dunno, sometimes seems like I can dodge, sometimes I get feared while dodging. Maybe it’s my imagination, or maybe my roll ended right into the wall.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Just because I wanted to post it =D

go around it. it’s a “wall”, you’re not supposed to walk over it.

So the guys saying they could dodge into it were lying?

Just asking, ain’t not like I am afraid of necros. If I have to walk around, I’ll walk around. Or just stunlock them to death before they can say “L2P”.

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

If you’re meleeing someone and they drop the wall, you’re gonna get feared. If he stands near the wall I cannot shadowshot, inf sig or steal to him. If I switch to shortbow, I cannot cleanse condis or restealth, and his dps far exceeds mine.

The only solution as a thief is to just stop fighting for 5 seconds, which isn’t an option for any build that doesn’t immediately have access to multiple stealth applications.

I feel even worse for warriors.

And as for stability, there’s kind of an issue there: Corrupt turns stability into fear, which walks you through the wall, which fears you again.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

If you’re meleeing someone and they drop the wall, you’re gonna get feared. If he stands near the wall I cannot shadowshot, inf sig or steal to him. If I switch to shortbow, I cannot cleanse condis or restealth, and his dps far exceeds mine.

The only solution as a thief is to just stop fighting for 5 seconds, which isn’t an option for any build that doesn’t immediately have access to multiple stealth applications.

I feel even worse for warriors.

And as for stability, there’s kind of an issue there: Corrupt turns stability into fear, which walks you through the wall, which fears you again.

1. You actually have to cross to not get feared. Like literaly. Even if the necromancer puted the wall right on your feet, it will not fear you.

2. Please stop. At this point, I feel you are trying to make a spell sound so good without taking any cons into consideration just so people could take notice of it and start overreacting. Stop it already. Corrup boon was mainly used in high competitive play to counter bunker build, guardian and elem. Pre patch, it used to convert ALL THE BOONS into CONDITIONS. Now, since the patch, not only it only converts 5 boons, but stability is it’s lowest priority. It means that any decent guardian or ele will make sure that stability is covered by 5 other boons. In the other hand, if a profession got 5 boons + stability on him, corrupt boon will never convert stability into fear.

3. You are obviously a thief. Let’s only talk about 1v1. Let’s forget about team fight. In the other hand, wall is op against my class, therefore it should get nerfed. I don’t care about dhuumfire +terror combo. I only care about getting rid of something that destroy my insta gib 1v1 combo. kitten plz.

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

Um…sorry but I DON’T see where you’re going at. As a thief, infiltrator’s arrow shouldn’t even be in the discussion of spectral wall…I can shortbow from 900r, so why would I need to infiltrator’s arrow to cross the wall? Makes no sense. What baffles me is that you’re comparing these skills to spectral wall…how do these skills even compare to what spectral wall does? If you don’t think spectral wall is a problem, then you’re just in denial. Why do you think it’s pretty much mandatory now with necs? It’s used a lot more than spectral walk itself, and that’s a stunbreak! Why? Because it’s that good.

I also hope you know that if you’re a melee class, it’s hardly a l2p issue. There is NOTHING you could do unless you have stability, period. Get in range, feared and damaged, rinse and repeat. The only way for a melee weapon set is to completely stop hitting the necro for 5s…which is NOT an option. For that, you might as well just give up and die because as I already said, 5s is plenty of time to kill a melee class.

Poplolita.2638:

Archer Henchman.2534:

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

If you’re meleeing someone and they drop the wall, you’re gonna get feared. If he stands near the wall I cannot shadowshot, inf sig or steal to him. If I switch to shortbow, I cannot cleanse condis or restealth, and his dps far exceeds mine.

The only solution as a thief is to just stop fighting for 5 seconds, which isn’t an option for any build that doesn’t immediately have access to multiple stealth applications.

I feel even worse for warriors.

And as for stability, there’s kind of an issue there: Corrupt turns stability into fear, which walks you through the wall, which fears you again.

1. You actually have to cross to not get feared. Like literaly. Even if the necromancer puted the wall right on your feet, it will not fear you.

2. Please stop. At this point, I feel you are trying to make a spell sound so good without taking any cons into consideration just so people could take notice of it and start overreacting. Stop it already. Corrup boon was mainly used in high competitive play to counter bunker build, guardian and elem. Pre patch, it used to convert ALL THE BOONS into CONDITIONS. Now, since the patch, not only it only converts 5 boons, but stability is it’s lowest priority. It means that any decent guardian or ele will make sure that stability is covered by 5 other boons. In the other hand, if a profession got 5 boons + stability on him, corrupt boon will never convert stability into fear.

3. You are obviously a thief. Let’s only talk about 1v1. Let’s forget about team fight. In the other hand, wall is op against my class, therefore it should get nerfed. I don’t care about dhuumfire +terror combo. I only care about getting rid of something that destroy my insta gib 1v1 combo. kitten plz.

Funny you mention nerf because thieves get nerfed every single patch. First of all, a thief cannot instagib a necro – it was hard enough pre-mug nerf, and now it’s 100% impossible.

No one is trying to get rid of spectral wall, but it’s a overall consensus (even amongst necros that I know) that spectral wall is OP right now. It should be toned down.

for the record, amaterasu, the spectral wall is no worse than the line/ring of warding that guardians have. it’s stronger (fear instead of knockdown, with potential to corrupt boons), but in practical terms, it’s the same: don’t walk through it because you can’t, but you can wait 5 seconds or teleport through.

oh and you really shouldn’t be 1v1ing a necro as a thief, unless you know that necro is a glass cannon (in which case, hack away, no amount of death shroud will save him).

BrunoBRS.5178:

for the record, amaterasu, the spectral wall is no worse than the line/ring of warding that guardians have. it’s stronger (fear instead of knockdown, with potential to corrupt boons), but in practical terms, it’s the same: don’t walk through it because you can’t, but you can wait 5 seconds or teleport through.

oh and you really shouldn’t be 1v1ing a necro as a thief, unless you know that necro is a glass cannon (in which case, hack away, no amount of death shroud will save him).

You just contradicted yourself there…it’s no worse than line of warding but it’s stronger in every way?

I don’t agree about the 1v1ing necro thing neither – a good dps thief is a necro’s worse nightmare if played correctly. Trust me, I still kill necros 1v1 post-patch.

Anyway that’s besides the point, I’m only here to discuss the state of spectral wall, not whether a thief should engage a necro or not…

Ah the sPvP forums, where every thread ultimately turns into a nerf thread. Never lets you down, but ok, I’ll bite.

Personally from a game design perspective skills like spectral wall is exactly what this game needs. Fun to use, fun to watch, can be used strategically in a multitude of ways, and involves a high amount of counter play.

From a balance perspective I think s.wall is actually in a good place. Contrary to all the hypothetical examples in this thread, spectral wall is not a must take in high lv tPvP. Right now Necro utilities consist of epiedemic, a stun break (plague signet or s.walk), and then flex slot which can be corrupt boon, signet of spite, or s.wall, so you’re not going to be seeing any Necros bringing both corrupt boon and s.wall for instance. You can’t bring s.wall instead of a stun break because a coordinated assist train combined with stability from the guardian means certain death. Necros rely so much on CC and counter pressuring with DPS as their means of defense, and can be completely shut down with stability or by chain CC’s.

Now I do think Necro condi DPS needs to be toned down a bit and IMO the most elegant and simple fix that ANet could and should do is make condition duration not effect fear and just treat it like an effect like stun. This solves many, many problems such as a nerf to the popular 30/30/10 builds (which IMO can be easily shut down in high lv tPvP), fix the funky interaction with Melandru runes, condition duration food, etc. etc.

S.Wall on the other hand is something that everybody has been asking for for Necros, more survivability vs focus fire. Something that can allow Necros to escape a fight without necessarily giving them a mobility skill. Why anybody would want to nerf a much needed skill such as this does not understand the core fundamental issues with Necro ATM.

Amaterasu.6280:

Poplolita.2638:

Archer Henchman.2534:

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

If you’re meleeing someone and they drop the wall, you’re gonna get feared. If he stands near the wall I cannot shadowshot, inf sig or steal to him. If I switch to shortbow, I cannot cleanse condis or restealth, and his dps far exceeds mine.

The only solution as a thief is to just stop fighting for 5 seconds, which isn’t an option for any build that doesn’t immediately have access to multiple stealth applications.

I feel even worse for warriors.

And as for stability, there’s kind of an issue there: Corrupt turns stability into fear, which walks you through the wall, which fears you again.

1. You actually have to cross to not get feared. Like literaly. Even if the necromancer puted the wall right on your feet, it will not fear you.

2. Please stop. At this point, I feel you are trying to make a spell sound so good without taking any cons into consideration just so people could take notice of it and start overreacting. Stop it already. Corrup boon was mainly used in high competitive play to counter bunker build, guardian and elem. Pre patch, it used to convert ALL THE BOONS into CONDITIONS. Now, since the patch, not only it only converts 5 boons, but stability is it’s lowest priority. It means that any decent guardian or ele will make sure that stability is covered by 5 other boons. In the other hand, if a profession got 5 boons + stability on him, corrupt boon will never convert stability into fear.

3. You are obviously a thief. Let’s only talk about 1v1. Let’s forget about team fight. In the other hand, wall is op against my class, therefore it should get nerfed. I don’t care about dhuumfire +terror combo. I only care about getting rid of something that destroy my insta gib 1v1 combo. kitten plz.

Funny you mention nerf because thieves get nerfed every single patch. First of all, a thief cannot instagib a necro – it was hard enough pre-mug nerf, and now it’s 100% impossible.

No one is trying to get rid of spectral wall, but it’s a overall consensus (even amongst necros that I know) that spectral wall is OP right now. It should be toned down.

If you want a spell to get nerfed, at least, have the decency to take into account necromancer’s weaknesses, and what really put necromancers over the top -hint: it’s not spectral wall. Anyway, I’m going to stop with you. Skyro answered most of your concerns. Also… try using"it’s a overall concensus" argument wisely next time. Do some research. Bring some proof. Don’t just throw it just to make a point. |Link some streams from high competitive teams. Right now, you’ll just lose all crediblity sadly.

Amaterasu.6280:

BrunoBRS.5178:

for the record, amaterasu, the spectral wall is no worse than the line/ring of warding that guardians have. it’s stronger (fear instead of knockdown, with potential to corrupt boons), but in practical terms, it’s the same: don’t walk through it because you can’t, but you can wait 5 seconds or teleport through.

oh and you really shouldn’t be 1v1ing a necro as a thief, unless you know that necro is a glass cannon (in which case, hack away, no amount of death shroud will save him).

You just contradicted yourself there…it’s no worse than line of warding but it’s stronger in every way?

I don’t agree about the 1v1ing necro thing neither – a good dps thief is a necro’s worse nightmare if played correctly. Trust me, I still kill necros 1v1 post-patch.

Anyway that’s besides the point, I’m only here to discuss the state of spectral wall, not whether a thief should engage a necro or not…

it sounds like it, but it isn’t. my point is that both skills create an impenetrable barrier that you’re not supposed to pass through unless you have a teleport of some sort. they both serve the same purpose and both are countered the same way.

Personally I think the Guardian wall can be worse. Ever had it cast on you and you just sit and watch your character get continually KDed for its duration?

Archer Henchman.2534:

Poplolita.2638:

Amaterasu.6280:

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

You don’t think a nec could walk back across the wall faster than you can walk around it?

Then just wait 5 seconds and make him regret casting his wall.

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

“5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks.”

Try using any of those moves:
Thief: Infiltrator’s arrow 6 initiation no cooldown vs 45 cooldown
Mesmer: Illusionary leap/swap 12sec cooldown vs 45 cooldown, blink 30 sec vs 45 cooldown.
Ele: Put as much boon on you to cover stability so corrupt bone doesn’t convert it (stability is corrupt boon lowest priority) cross the wall. lightning flash 40 sec vs 45 cooldown
Guardian: Same with ele.
Warrior: who cares?
Ranger: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.
Engineer: Why would he ever cross it? Use your ranged weapons.

See where I’m going at? spectral wall is hardly the reason why necromancer are so dumb right not. You even stated yourself where’s the problem at.
Dhuumfire+terror set up combo. Not spectral wall. Or I’ll see more build that only focus on terror with a lot of fear without dhuumfire. 0/30/10/0/30 for example.

“on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…”

“few times”

l2p issue

If you’re meleeing someone and they drop the wall, you’re gonna get feared. If he stands near the wall I cannot shadowshot, inf sig or steal to him. If I switch to shortbow, I cannot cleanse condis or restealth, and his dps far exceeds mine.

The only solution as a thief is to just stop fighting for 5 seconds, which isn’t an option for any build that doesn’t immediately have access to multiple stealth applications.

I feel even worse for warriors.

And as for stability, there’s kind of an issue there: Corrupt turns stability into fear, which walks you through the wall, which fears you again.

That’s hilarious, because when my berserker necro goes against a D/P thief, and he chooses to spam his 4 seconds of immune god hood through black powder or 14 seconds of free positioning for backstab with refuge, I feel the same.

Yet, when a necro can stall a thief for 5 secs on a 45 sec cd, something is wrong in the world!

BrunoBRS.5178:

Amaterasu.6280:

BrunoBRS.5178:

for the record, amaterasu, the spectral wall is no worse than the line/ring of warding that guardians have. it’s stronger (fear instead of knockdown, with potential to corrupt boons), but in practical terms, it’s the same: don’t walk through it because you can’t, but you can wait 5 seconds or teleport through.

oh and you really shouldn’t be 1v1ing a necro as a thief, unless you know that necro is a glass cannon (in which case, hack away, no amount of death shroud will save him).

You just contradicted yourself there…it’s no worse than line of warding but it’s stronger in every way?

I don’t agree about the 1v1ing necro thing neither – a good dps thief is a necro’s worse nightmare if played correctly. Trust me, I still kill necros 1v1 post-patch.

Anyway that’s besides the point, I’m only here to discuss the state of spectral wall, not whether a thief should engage a necro or not…

it sounds like it, but it isn’t. my point is that both skills create an impenetrable barrier that you’re not supposed to pass through unless you have a teleport of some sort. they both serve the same purpose and both are countered the same way.

Except the part where a necro can kill you in 3-5 seconds, whereas the warding abilities are both on support/utility weapon sets of a class that cannot do any consistent ranged damage.

Functionally, in team fights, the warding abilities are used to split up teams in order to allow you to focus someone down. The wall, however, makes your backline immune to any melee class.

So, functionally, how are you supposed to counter it? If you teleport to the other side, the necro can walk through the wall, and he gains prot. If you teleport back, he walks through the wall again, all while hitting you. If you wait it out, well, great, the wall is now a functional 5 second peel. That outlasts any of the warrior’s mitigation abilities and any single stealth application, meaning that besides for a thief with 10+ in shadow arts, you’re going to be eating up multiple skills to wait it out.

What’s more? Even at the end, their midline now has prot. Even assuming you took zero damage during the wall, your offence requires 50% more damage to achieve equal pressure, meaning you can’t open with frontloaded damage unless you’re substantially ahead. Which you aren’t. Because you were eating nades and marks for 5 seconds.

Thieves are good against necro because they can consistently blind their high value skills, but that doesn’t really matter when you’re stuck at range in team fights plinking away with a shortbow that misses half the time while your team eats condi cleave.

To the guy above me:
You know you can walk out of black powder, right? At best it should eat 2 skills.

I can walk out of black powder. I cannot attack the thief for his 3-4 seconds of stealth. You know, because dagger necro needs to melee. Marks don’t do crap on a power spec.

And in that time out he can easily spam every 10 secs worth of ini regen he’s taking out 6-7k of my health in one invisible attack I have to gamble a guess on unlike every other telegraphed burst in the game.

Your class is cheap crap hardly punished for missing attacks thanks to how fast initiative regens and how your damage is concentrated in one or two button presses while some other class can miss a skill and have it go on a 30 sec cd.

I will not shed a tear for poor thieves being invonvenienced when they’re farming anything that isn’t a bunker.

And I don’t want to hear excuses quite honestly. I have my lv80 thief, be it s/d or d/p I farm pretty much everything in wvw and spvp unless it’s an engineer bunker. It’s such a kitten -proof class with all the escapes and resets it gets.

Spectral wall is a utility slot with a 45 second CD that does not benefit from the reduced CD or fear 50% additional duration in the “30/30/10/0/0” build that everyone claims is rocking their world. It takes a Master level trait to gain damage and an additional GM trait slot to last any longer than 5 seconds. With no stunbreak used competitively that doesn’t have a base 60 second CD I think you can manage a necro who only has 5 seconds of “defense”. Honestly if It didn’t present a threat to you there would be no point in lining up half of your build to use it, seems no different to me than any other situationally strong skill that can potentially take up 2-4 trait slots.

Zenith.7301:

I can walk out of black powder. I cannot attack the thief for his 3-4 seconds of stealth. You know, because dagger necro needs to melee. Marks don’t do crap on a power spec.

And in that time out he can easily spam every 10 secs worth of ini regen he’s taking out 6-7k of my health in one invisible attack I have to gamble a guess on unlike every other telegraphed burst in the game.

Your class is cheap crap hardly punished for missing attacks thanks to how fast initiative regens and how your damage is concentrated in one or two button presses while some other class can miss a skill and have it go on a 30 sec cd.

I will not shed a tear for poor thieves being invonvenienced when they’re farming anything that isn’t a bunker.

And I don’t want to hear excuses quite honestly. I have my lv80 thief, be it s/d or d/p I farm pretty much everything in wvw and spvp unless it’s an engineer bunker. It’s such a kitten -proof class with all the escapes and resets it gets.

You can’t hit a thief while he’s in stealth when you have access to marks? You’re running power necro, which is designed to abuse the scaling on lichform in team fights and you’re trying to 1v1 a thief?

Feel free to 1v1 me in-game, toss me a pm if you’d like. I’ll explain the matchup to you and how it scales into teamfights.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Zenith.7301:

I can walk out of black powder. I cannot attack the thief for his 3-4 seconds of stealth. You know, because dagger necro needs to melee. Marks don’t do crap on a power spec.

And in that time out he can easily spam every 10 secs worth of ini regen he’s taking out 6-7k of my health in one invisible attack I have to gamble a guess on unlike every other telegraphed burst in the game.

Your class is cheap crap hardly punished for missing attacks thanks to how fast initiative regens and how your damage is concentrated in one or two button presses while some other class can miss a skill and have it go on a 30 sec cd.

I will not shed a tear for poor thieves being invonvenienced when they’re farming anything that isn’t a bunker.

And I don’t want to hear excuses quite honestly. I have my lv80 thief, be it s/d or d/p I farm pretty much everything in wvw and spvp unless it’s an engineer bunker. It’s such a kitten -proof class with all the escapes and resets it gets.

You can’t hit a thief while he’s in stealth when you have access to marks? You’re running power necro, which is designed to abuse the scaling on lichform in team fights and you’re trying to 1v1 a thief?

Feel free to 1v1 me in-game, toss me a pm if you’d like. I’ll explain the matchup to you and how it scales into teamfights.

Ok… we’re way off topic now. We already answered Op question. I think this thread should be locked at this point. I don’t care if you are having trouble 1v1 against any conditionmancer with spectral wall. It’s a l2p issue. Dhuumfire + terror is the only reason why necromancer are so over the top, not because of a wall. That’s pretty much your problem. Cut the bs already, and deal with it.

Poplolita.2638:

Archer Henchman.2534:

Zenith.7301:

I can walk out of black powder. I cannot attack the thief for his 3-4 seconds of stealth. You know, because dagger necro needs to melee. Marks don’t do crap on a power spec.

And in that time out he can easily spam every 10 secs worth of ini regen he’s taking out 6-7k of my health in one invisible attack I have to gamble a guess on unlike every other telegraphed burst in the game.

Your class is cheap crap hardly punished for missing attacks thanks to how fast initiative regens and how your damage is concentrated in one or two button presses while some other class can miss a skill and have it go on a 30 sec cd.

I will not shed a tear for poor thieves being invonvenienced when they’re farming anything that isn’t a bunker.

And I don’t want to hear excuses quite honestly. I have my lv80 thief, be it s/d or d/p I farm pretty much everything in wvw and spvp unless it’s an engineer bunker. It’s such a kitten -proof class with all the escapes and resets it gets.

You can’t hit a thief while he’s in stealth when you have access to marks? You’re running power necro, which is designed to abuse the scaling on lichform in team fights and you’re trying to 1v1 a thief?

Feel free to 1v1 me in-game, toss me a pm if you’d like. I’ll explain the matchup to you and how it scales into teamfights.

Ok… we’re way off topic now. We already answered Op question. I think this thread should be locked at this point. I don’t care if you are having trouble 1v1 against any conditionmancer with spectral wall. It’s a l2p issue. Dhuumfire + terror is the only reason why necromancer are so over the top, not because of a wall. That’s pretty much your problem. Cut the bs already, and deal with it.

Let me repeat this: the issue isn’t in 1v1. Equally skilled necro v thief is 90% in favor of the thief. In teamfights, however, the threat of wall makes pretty much any melee class in the game useless on any map with small point geometry, like forest, khylo, temple and spiritwatch.

What’s more, there’s no counterplay possible on any of these maps. Your best option when wall goes down in a team fight is a terrible one. Always.

That’s not even to say that thief currently isn’t viable (although offensive guardian, melee ranger, d/d necro and warriors of all stripes currently aren’t), but that’s mostly due to the fact that shadow trap is currently incredibly strong.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Zenith.7301:

I can walk out of black powder. I cannot attack the thief for his 3-4 seconds of stealth. You know, because dagger necro needs to melee. Marks don’t do crap on a power spec.

And in that time out he can easily spam every 10 secs worth of ini regen he’s taking out 6-7k of my health in one invisible attack I have to gamble a guess on unlike every other telegraphed burst in the game.

Your class is cheap crap hardly punished for missing attacks thanks to how fast initiative regens and how your damage is concentrated in one or two button presses while some other class can miss a skill and have it go on a 30 sec cd.

I will not shed a tear for poor thieves being invonvenienced when they’re farming anything that isn’t a bunker.

And I don’t want to hear excuses quite honestly. I have my lv80 thief, be it s/d or d/p I farm pretty much everything in wvw and spvp unless it’s an engineer bunker. It’s such a kitten -proof class with all the escapes and resets it gets.

You can’t hit a thief while he’s in stealth when you have access to marks? You’re running power necro, which is designed to abuse the scaling on lichform in team fights and you’re trying to 1v1 a thief?

Feel free to 1v1 me in-game, toss me a pm if you’d like. I’ll explain the matchup to you and how it scales into teamfights.

It’s not that I’m actively looking for 1v1 with them. It’s that when one of them see me moving points it’s a beeline because it’s a free kill unless I’m terror specced with reaper’s defense in rabid.

There is no way whatsoever to win against a D/P thief as a berserker build of any class that isn’t a mesmer or s/d ele.

You will not beat a thief if he’s any good as a berk necro, ranger, guardian, let alone warrior.

Amaterasu.6280:

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

Switch to ranged and punish them, then.
There is no melee-only profession in this game. You can always switch to your ranged set and damage them for afar.

Skyro.3108:

Ah the sPvP forums, where every thread ultimately turns into a nerf thread. Never lets you down, but ok, I’ll bite.

Personally from a game design perspective skills like spectral wall is exactly what this game needs. Fun to use, fun to watch, can be used strategically in a multitude of ways, and involves a high amount of counter play.

From a balance perspective I think s.wall is actually in a good place. Contrary to all the hypothetical examples in this thread, spectral wall is not a must take in high lv tPvP. Right now Necro utilities consist of epiedemic, a stun break (plague signet or s.walk), and then flex slot which can be corrupt boon, signet of spite, or s.wall, so you’re not going to be seeing any Necros bringing both corrupt boon and s.wall for instance. You can’t bring s.wall instead of a stun break because a coordinated assist train combined with stability from the guardian means certain death. Necros rely so much on CC and counter pressuring with DPS as their means of defense, and can be completely shut down with stability or by chain CC’s.

Now I do think Necro condi DPS needs to be toned down a bit and IMO the most elegant and simple fix that ANet could and should do is make condition duration not effect fear and just treat it like an effect like stun. This solves many, many problems such as a nerf to the popular 30/30/10 builds (which IMO can be easily shut down in high lv tPvP), fix the funky interaction with Melandru runes, condition duration food, etc. etc.

S.Wall on the other hand is something that everybody has been asking for for Necros, more survivability vs focus fire. Something that can allow Necros to escape a fight without necessarily giving them a mobility skill. Why anybody would want to nerf a much needed skill such as this does not understand the core fundamental issues with Necro ATM.

/threadwin

sorrow.2364:

Amaterasu.6280:

5s is PLENTY of time to melt someone with condis as a necro especially if he has dhuumfire ready to proc + his marks. As a bunker guard, a line of warding could delay you, but your friendly neighborhood bunker guard isn’t going to murder you within those few secs neither. That’s the difference.

The problem is that the spectral wall is both offensive + defensive. Gives the user proc if you walk across it, and fears EVERYTIME the enemy walks through it…on top of that, the fear procs with terror trait so you can very well kill yourself if you walk through it a few times…

Switch to ranged and punish them, then.
There is no melee-only profession in this game. You can always switch to your ranged set and damage them for afar.

If you just got wall feared, its because you’re in their mid-line. And if you’re in their midline, you’re not there to pull out a rifle on warrior. If that won teamfights, you’d see people running shortbow, longbow and rifle on thief and warrior respectively as their main weapon.

Here’s a hint: They don’t. Because your advice doesn’t work.

Poplolita.2638:

Warrior: who cares?

You’ll care, when you’ll be too busy picking up your brain from the ground during a stunfest to think about spectral wall.XD

Sincerely,

A warrior player.

Wow. This has gone a long way from the topic heading.

It used to be that you could jump-dodge over Spectral Wall if you have a slight elevation change (you need to be on the up hill side to do it).

I haven’t tested it in forever, so I don’t know if it has been fixed or not, but the idea that you can just dodge-roll through it and not get feared is a complete falsehood. Don’t know where that came from or why people keep repeating it.

For the debate that has completely hijacked this thread:

Spectral Wall may very well get changed in the upcoming patch. I wouldn’t be surprised if it no longer applies Fear to targets that are already suffering Fear. It would not be excessively punitive to overall capability of the class while it would increase the skill level required to play a terror necro which is both warranted and logical. We shall see.

Archer Henchman.2534:

If you just got wall feared, its because you’re in their mid-line. And if you’re in their midline, you’re not there to pull out a rifle on warrior. If that won teamfights, you’d see people running shortbow, longbow and rifle on thief and warrior respectively as their main weapon.

Here’s a hint: They don’t. Because your advice doesn’t work.

So you think that pulling out your ranged weapon when you can’t hit in melee your enemy doesn’t work?
Oh, well…

It is a good skill but defiantly not op. There are a ton of other skills which are more powerful than this.

sorrow.2364:

Archer Henchman.2534:

If you just got wall feared, its because you’re in their mid-line. And if you’re in their midline, you’re not there to pull out a rifle on warrior. If that won teamfights, you’d see people running shortbow, longbow and rifle on thief and warrior respectively as their main weapon.

Here’s a hint: They don’t. Because your advice doesn’t work.

So you think that pulling out your ranged weapon when you can’t hit in melee your enemy doesn’t work?
Oh, well…

On a thief, the proper response is to stealth up and wait the wall out so that you don’t lose access to flanking strike or blackpowder, both of which are vital to you being able to survive while training the necro. On a warrior, you… well, you die.

If thief and warrior ranged options weren’t a huge liability to switch to, sure they’d be able to make the swap, but as it stands that’s not the case.

I get that theoretically that SHOULD be a viable counterplay option, but it currently isn’t because of how the ranged weaponsets for melee classes are; they’re entirely supportive by nature and the switch from melee to range locks you into that weapon set and out of your melee-based mitigation.

Archer Henchman.2534:

sorrow.2364:

Archer Henchman.2534:

If you just got wall feared, its because you’re in their mid-line. And if you’re in their midline, you’re not there to pull out a rifle on warrior. If that won teamfights, you’d see people running shortbow, longbow and rifle on thief and warrior respectively as their main weapon.

Here’s a hint: They don’t. Because your advice doesn’t work.

So you think that pulling out your ranged weapon when you can’t hit in melee your enemy doesn’t work?
Oh, well…

On a thief, the proper response is to stealth up and wait the wall out so that you don’t lose access to flanking strike or blackpowder, both of which are vital to you being able to survive while training the necro. On a warrior, you… well, you die.

If thief and warrior ranged options weren’t a huge liability to switch to, sure they’d be able to make the swap, but as it stands that’s not the case.

I get that theoretically that SHOULD be a viable counterplay option, but it currently isn’t because of how the ranged weaponsets for melee classes are; they’re entirely supportive by nature and the switch from melee to range locks you into that weapon set and out of your melee-based mitigation.

Can we focus on the main issue with condition which is terror and dhuumfire, and not on this thread? Not fear in spectral wall. If we listen to all of you asking for nerf. That’s what will happen to necromancer —> Putrid mark nerf (already nerfed)/corrup boon nerf (was already nerfed)/spectra wall nerf (was useless pre patch)/Doom duration nerf/Doom cooldown nerf kittenmit etc etc if we listen to all of you. Just admit that you want necromancer to become worse than ever before. Jesus. You are simply qqing at this point, and therefore, there is not point arguing with you.

Once again, stop.

How am I QQing when I recognize that thief roundly wins 1v1s vs necro consistently?

I have no issue giving necros s’more oomph in 1v1s (although people who main other classes will want to stab me for saying that, because thief is the only class that 1v1s necros so consistently), but the dynamics that they create in teamfights with their area denial completely shuts down melee classes.

And obviously even if 1 spec wall was an issue to play around, 2 specc’d into walls just makes backlines impossible to extend into. But that’s okay because teams aren’t bringing thieves and warriors, hence why you see some necros running something that isn’t wall, because the threat of wall has made multiple classes impossible to play at a viable level.

I mean, maybe the answer isn’t to nerf necros, but to buff rifle, longbow and shortbow. …I haven’t been asking for trickshot to be fixed for months or anything,. Oh wait, that’s pretty much all I’ve been doing.

I’m kind of with you on this Archer. I think the spectral wall change was introduced to give necros a little more play against thieves with the extra peel, and something like that was definitely needed to stop that outcome from being quite so fast and certain. I also think that giving necros a ward was a good call, although doubling (or even tripling for double necro comps) the amount of wards you’re likely to see in a game definitely has a big impact on melee viability.

My real issue with it is that I now feel pretty safe. All the time. I don’t feel as much need to know where the enemy thief is at all times anymore. Spectral wall buys me more time than a thief can usually afford to spend near me. Only very mobile thieves can put me under anything like the pressure I used to face from them. Then again, I’ve only vsed one really good thief since I started playing again.