Guild Wars 2

Any good counter to stun+mind wrack+blurred frenzy?

I try to use stun breakers and dodge when I think they will start spike but never seems to be enough time to hit stun breaker and dodge as they have multiple stun before it takes me from full to zero health, does insane amount of damage with no easy way of telling when they will cast it all or when it is incoming….gives almost no chance of enough reaction time.

Any other counters to it?

It depends on what class you are playing. If you can’t dodge the clones when they come at you, either use a damage immunity skill (mist form, endure pain, block skills, etc) or a mobility skill to clear the distance between the death zone and you. Most classes can escape using a blink/dodge skill. Even necro can get out of it if wurm is out, or if they’re in spectral walk.

Kharr.5746:

It depends on what class you are playing. If you can’t dodge the clones when they come at you, either use a damage immunity skill (mist form, endure pain, block skills, etc) or a mobility skill to clear the distance between the death zone and you. Most classes can escape using a blink/dodge skill. Even necro can get out of it if wurm is out, or if they’re in spectral walk.

What I think is happening is they call target on one player, dump all stuns and immobilize on them, then hit mind wrack and blurred frenzy which equals instant death with no escape…insane damage. Especially with 1-2 mesmers.

Focus next target and it’s repeatable on quick succession with a short cool down when using a specific build…

Repeat and rince.

Just struggling to find a counter to it as stun breakers and dodge isn’t enough to counter it and almost no warning when it’s incoming so reaction time is like zero chance.

TRON.1085:

Any good counter to stun+mind wrack+blurred frenzy?

I try to use stun breakers and dodge when I think they will start spike but never seems to be enough time to hit stun breaker and dodge as they have multiple stun before it takes me from full to zero health, does insane amount of damage with no easy way of telling when they will cast it all or when it is incoming….gives almost no chance of enough reaction time.

Any other counters to it?

Watch for leap then stunbreak away. You can both see the mesmer teleporting or just wait for leap’s sound…and it’s far from impossible to do since pretty much every decent player easily dodges shatter combos…even if you bait them with leap delaying diversion and mind wrack trying to make them waste escapes…if ppl (And not talking about ultra pro or something) easily do it in tpvp it means it can be done…problem is…are you able to do it?

Archaon.6245:

TRON.1085:

Any good counter to stun+mind wrack+blurred frenzy?

I try to use stun breakers and dodge when I think they will start spike but never seems to be enough time to hit stun breaker and dodge as they have multiple stun before it takes me from full to zero health, does insane amount of damage with no easy way of telling when they will cast it all or when it is incoming….gives almost no chance of enough reaction time.

Any other counters to it?

Watch for leap then stunbreak away. You can both see the mesmer teleporting or just wait for leap’s sound…and it’s far from impossible to do since pretty much every decent player easily dodges shatter combos…even if you bait them with leap delaying diversion and mind wrack trying to make them waste escapes…if ppl (And not talking about ultra pro or something) easily do it in tpvp it means it can be done…problem is…are you able to do it?

When it’s 2+ mesmers focusing stuns and immoblize on you with mind wrack and blurred frenzy stun breakers and dodge don’t help you…

Even with 2 stun breakers is not enough…

Blink or Invulnerability.

It’s safe to say that if its 2 of any class on you then you are pretty much screwed… 2 mesmers hurt… Two thieves hurt more two warriors can chain stun lock then burst you. To rangers can bleed you to death two necros can throw almost every condition out there on you two minion necros cannot be found amongst their meat shields. in short if its two of the same class working together… fat chance of surviving anyways.

TRON.1085:

Archaon.6245:

TRON.1085:

Any good counter to stun+mind wrack+blurred frenzy?

I try to use stun breakers and dodge when I think they will start spike but never seems to be enough time to hit stun breaker and dodge as they have multiple stun before it takes me from full to zero health, does insane amount of damage with no easy way of telling when they will cast it all or when it is incoming….gives almost no chance of enough reaction time.

Any other counters to it?

Watch for leap then stunbreak away. You can both see the mesmer teleporting or just wait for leap’s sound…and it’s far from impossible to do since pretty much every decent player easily dodges shatter combos…even if you bait them with leap delaying diversion and mind wrack trying to make them waste escapes…if ppl (And not talking about ultra pro or something) easily do it in tpvp it means it can be done…problem is…are you able to do it?

When it’s 2+ mesmers focusing stuns and immoblize on you with mind wrack and blurred frenzy stun breakers and dodge don’t help you…

Even with 2 stun breakers is not enough…

When you have 2 not brain dead dps (Any class) focusing you you’re going down eventually no matter what (Even with a bunker spec)…so i don’t really see the problem here..you die vs 2 dps = that dps is op? Seriously?

Mesmers are pretty frustrating to fight. They require constant target switching and the phantasm burst is very hard to avoid when surrounded by clones and a mes dancing in and out of stealth.

Even if they are technically not OP, they are annoying to fight by design, which leaves players wanting to nerf the frustration if not the class.

OPs question: How do I counter 2v1?

Answer: Get a friend and make it a 2v2.

As jportell pointed out, this has nothing to do with mesmers.

/thread?

Hexs.8015:

Mesmers are pretty frustrating to fight. They require constant target switching and the phantasm burst is very hard to avoid when surrounded by clones and a mes dancing in and out of stealth.

Even if they are technically not OP, they are annoying to fight by design, which leaves players wanting to nerf the frustration if not the class.

Ye that’s pretty much it. I hate the class since beta. Sadly it’s not only a mesmer related problem, this game has way too many effects and animations, mesmers are just the main source of chaos. Nerfing the class will be a bad idea, since basically all mesmer specs are counterable and therefore somewhat balanced. There’s nothing to nerf here, it’s just a terrible designed class.

Phase Retreat.````

Fjandi.2516:

Hexs.8015:

Mesmers are pretty frustrating to fight. They require constant target switching and the phantasm burst is very hard to avoid when surrounded by clones and a mes dancing in and out of stealth.

Even if they are technically not OP, they are annoying to fight by design, which leaves players wanting to nerf the frustration if not the class.

Ye that’s pretty much it. I hate the class since beta. Sadly it’s not only a mesmer related problem, this game has way too many effects and animations, mesmers are just the main source of chaos. Nerfing the class will be a bad idea, since basically all mesmer specs are counterable and therefore somewhat balanced. There’s nothing to nerf here, it’s just a terrible designed class.

Pretty much. Most hard-counters to mesmers is just spam AoE to take down clones/phantasms, but if Anet stays true to their word we’re going to see a blanket nerf to all AoE. If that’s the case, how much harder will it be to take down mesmers/necros? Oh, PvP culling may help with all the particle effects.

Just wanted to get the following out there: its not impossible to do a 1vs2. Prove is in my signature link below!
And as others have stated: the basic shatter combo is fairly easy to predict/dodge. If youre in a teamfight and youre being focussed, call your team for help or play defensively for a while. A simple shield stance or somehing is more than enough to mitigate mind wracks from 2 mesmers. If they delay the burst untill your shield stance is over, your team already reacted to your call for help on voice chat and is now slapping them.

Hope this helps,
Alissah

While I admire your awesomeness and you are very skill player, I did not see much your actions vs another 2 Mesmer. With just one skill Blurred Frenzy, Mesmer already got Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Invulnerable then Burst, all of this happened can be repeated every 8s.. That ’s in my opinion too much packed in just one skill and in such a shorter CD. I play as an Elementalist, I have no trouble dealing with Mesmer 1on1 thanks all to my Stun Breaker and Condtion Cleanse, but I will get destroyed if have to deal with 2 Mesmers of Lesser Skill (not too much). With all the clones they generated, 6 clones + 2 real bodies, the dams of Phantasm, the pull from Focus, the Shatter every 10s, then Blurred Frenzy on top of everything else. Just by identify them already among all is a hard already task enough, then you have to Click on them, not to mention you can easily lose the target when they hop in stealth,also lose target when your dumb right Mouse randomly click on the Clones when u move camera, then you have to re-identify them again, how are we gonna have time to watch for Blurred Frenzy or dodge them.. It seems like impossible to me even as a Eles.

Stealth.9324:

While I admire your awesomeness and you are very skill player, I did not see much your actions vs another 2 Mesmer. With just one skill Blurred Frenzy, Mesmer already got Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Invulnerable then Burst, all of this happened can be repeated every 8s.. That ’s in my opinion too much packed in just one skill and in such a shorter CD. I play as an Elementalist, I have no trouble dealing with Mesmer 1on1 thanks all to my Stun Breaker and Condtion Cleanse, but I will get destroyed if have to deal with 2 Mesmers of Lesser Skill (not too much). With all the clones they generated, 6 clones + 2 real bodies, the dams of Phantasm, the pull from Focus, the Shatter every 10s, then Blurred Frenzy on top of everything else. Just by identify them already among all is a hard already task enough, then you have to Click on them, not to mention you can easily lose the target when they hop in stealth,also lose target when your dumb right Mouse randomly click on the Clones when u move camera, then you have to re-identify them again, how are we gonna have time to watch for Blurred Frenzy or dodge them.. It seems like impossible to me even as a Eles.

If you are fighting 2 mesmers you are not supposed to live anyway, unless you pull your A-game. Unless you’re an ele, like you said. if you’re a cantrip ele you can make 131244 mistakes and still live long enough.
And since when does blurred frenzy give all this? “Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Invulnerable then Burst” Oo

The combination of target-breaking stealth, tab-targetting having to go through all clones, right-click targetting and screen cluttering, make mesmers very annoying to fight against.

And aoes can’t counter a mesmer, because they can spam clones, which will just make you waste your time while they are bursting you down.

@stealth
Incase you were talking to me: thank you! Maybe in the next video ill put some duels with people i know, and gt them to roll mesmer or something.
Fighting 2 shatter mesmers isnt much different than fighting just one (except from having to down both of them at the same time, and being less forgiving when you get hit). You need control, if you control thr fight they wont be able to hit you, but make a mistake and youre done for. I dont have alot of experience as an ele so i cant speak for that.
When outnumbered, the terrain can mean victory or defeat, when theres alot of objects to hide around i usually have a better time, because they cant see my bursts coming:). Each playstyle/build has their own terrain where theyre moest effective, so youll want to move the fight if you have to.
When the fight starts i either stealth, or hide behind an object (LOS). When theyre at bursting range i simply burst them and dont take damage because im using blurred frenzy. After the burst ends i get the kitten out of there and wait for my burst to recharge. Then i repeat these steps until theyre dead easier said than done ofcourse. This only works if theyre not very skilled, because then they would just chain CC you.

@diogosilva decently placed aoes can counter a mesmer. But thats just like any attack can counter them, by dealing damage. Lets say me and a grenade engi are in a corridor, hes throwing grenades in front of him. If i run through them i tKe massive damage. But in order to not take massive damage i have to use my blink offensively, putting it on cooldown and unable to use defensively for when i get into trouble later, which gives him the afvantage. Offourse, corridors are a very bad place to fight as a shatter mesmer, so running away would be the better option.

Cheers,
Alissah

ahuba.6430:

Stealth.9324:

While I admire your awesomeness and you are very skill player, I did not see much your actions vs another 2 Mesmer. With just one skill Blurred Frenzy, Mesmer already got Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Invulnerable then Burst, all of this happened can be repeated every 8s.. That ’s in my opinion too much packed in just one skill and in such a shorter CD. I play as an Elementalist, I have no trouble dealing with Mesmer 1on1 thanks all to my Stun Breaker and Condtion Cleanse, but I will get destroyed if have to deal with 2 Mesmers of Lesser Skill (not too much). With all the clones they generated, 6 clones + 2 real bodies, the dams of Phantasm, the pull from Focus, the Shatter every 10s, then Blurred Frenzy on top of everything else. Just by identify them already among all is a hard already task enough, then you have to Click on them, not to mention you can easily lose the target when they hop in stealth,also lose target when your dumb right Mouse randomly click on the Clones when u move camera, then you have to re-identify them again, how are we gonna have time to watch for Blurred Frenzy or dodge them.. It seems like impossible to me even as a Eles.

If you are fighting 2 mesmers you are not supposed to live anyway, unless you pull your A-game. Unless you’re an ele, like you said. if you’re a cantrip ele you can make 131244 mistakes and still live long enough.
And since when does blurred frenzy give all this? “Cripple, Immobilize, Teleport, Invulnerable then Burst” Oo

Sry my bad, it was skill 3 teleport + blurred frenzy.Since the Cd of both skill is similar, you can use them side by side make it really good.

I play a longbow sword/shield warrior specifically as anti-mesmer and it’s been very effective so far. If you get in trouble or see a set-up coming, leap away or invuln/block then leap. Be sure to have auto targetting turned off and don’t have an enemy selected. Not sure what class you play but perhaps this’ll give you some ideas.

Hard to say what to do without the exact build (didn’t read everyone’s comment)

Are you sure you mean stun? There’s a snare at the end of swap which is a common part of the set up. If it is a stun then the snare may come after words but usually you should have enough time to react after they stun you (presuming it’s pistol stun)

As for the snare well if you can watch for the clone leap that’s a good indicator. What I use a lot is if a izerker did not hit me and I get crippled its a good moment to get ready to doge, or remove the snare, or pop an invuln if I’m a class that can. It used to be hard for me to see but after a while I got to be able to counter it as second nature, find a humble mesmer to practice with, duel him over and over, the build is far from instant win 1v1 like phant or BM. Is tricky but once you get the hang of it you’ll counter mesmers a lot more, meaning they’ll have to step up their game.

Another handy thing is to be at distance and make them waste their frenzy, then they lose a decent chunk of damage as well as a part of heir defence, so sometimes even if you can’t avoid the shatter you can still use little things like that for a combat.

Reminder quick tips:
Cripple is followed by swap, so there’s a quick indicator.

Always doge Into a shatter.

The real mesmer usually has vigor.

Put preassure on AFTER the mesmer attempts to burst.

Retaliation and confusion solve this ‘problem’ for me.

Then again when these threads have zero info about class, build, strategy, etc, i see a vent post… nothing more.

the issue many people have fighting mesmers.. like mentioned above.

NEVER TAB TARGET.. you are dieing because you fail to learn the basics.

also turn off your auto target.. all auto target does is force you to target clones instead of staying on the main mesmer.

ileap+ blurred frenzy is the only way a shatter mesmer can lock you down and land damage.. if you dont have 1 ablilty to avoid 1 move then you may be playing your class wrong.

you are playing spvp. dont be shy calling target on the mesmer so he has a big red target over his head and you can tell what one to click.

if you are playing vs a shatter mesmer he is very squishy and has no condition removal.

i heard you saying stun+ frenzy.. think you mean root.

if a mesmer goes invis they are most likely trying to hide the fact they are about to shatter combo. they will invis and dodge which does not break stealth then set up an ileap combo. be ready to dodge the leap or use a stun break.

its similar to fighting a glass cannon theif. if they steal+backstab combo you with basalisk on… you dont sit there and wait to die. you react.

again.. in response to the person saying it clones are overpowered because you need to tab target to get to the real mesmer…….

STOP TAB TARGETING.. it is like keyboard turning.

zaxon.6819:

the issue many people have fighting mesmers.. like mentioned above.

NEVER TAB TARGET.. you are dieing because you fail to learn the basics.

also turn off your auto target.. all auto target does is force you to target clones instead of staying on the main mesmer.

ileap+ blurred frenzy is the only way a shatter mesmer can lock you down and land damage.. if you dont have 1 ablilty to avoid 1 move then you may be playing your class wrong.

you are playing spvp. dont be shy calling target on the mesmer so he has a big red target over his head and you can tell what one to click.

if you are playing vs a shatter mesmer he is very squishy and has no condition removal.

i heard you saying stun+ frenzy.. think you mean root.

if a mesmer goes invis they are most likely trying to hide the fact they are about to shatter combo. they will invis and dodge which does not break stealth then set up an ileap combo. be ready to dodge the leap or use a stun break.

its similar to fighting a glass cannon theif. if they steal+backstab combo you with basalisk on… you dont sit there and wait to die. you react.

again.. in response to the person saying it clones are overpowered because you need to tab target to get to the real mesmer…….

STOP TAB TARGETING.. it is like keyboard turning.

Leap+blurred frenzy is not the omly way to land damage as a shatter mesmer/cat. Any decent player (as you said) can easily dodge this combo. There are many, many ways to land bursts, like delayin the swap, dodging trhough a player, attacking from stealth, attackin from behind an object, feigning retreat and do a sudden burst, or even simply attacking from behind.
Ofcourse, this doesnt happen much in hot join and even tourney, so for now you (the OP and others in this thread who need help) can just focus on dodging that illusionary leap, and always have a defensive skill ready if you do get hit.
Just leap+blurred frenzy is rarely a good idea against a decent player who is focussing you.
I actually have auto targeting turned on, i just avoid using it because it may target something i dont want, i aleays just click things.

Learn to dodge? Well not just anticipation of the combo but using terrain is vital. The pathing for many AI in the game is terrible. So run around something when you see 2-3 clones coming at you or evade away from them. Also stability is a plus. Most seasoned and experienced mesmers will temp curtain your ass, lock you down, and blow you to kingdom come. Watch dem pulls!

Shatter mesmer is definitely a strong 1v1 class, even more when you are forced to fight on a node/certain area. Allthough it’s easy to avoid most damage, but that needs knowledge of the class itselfs and a lot of practice. Sure it can happen that a mesmer bursts you with his full bf-combo. But this rule apply for every burst-class.

Shatter Mesmer is not hard to counter. They are very squishy on 1vs1. But it becomes a real threat when a mass fight going on. With all the clones and all his mates, plus our lame changing target when rotating map, makes thing ways harder than it should have been. Sure you can target the Mesmer but when he goes into stealth, you have to re-target him again among all his clones and his mates which is pretty annoying and lose the tempo of the fight.

i agree leap isnt the only way to land damage as a shatter mesmer.. but it is the only way that locks your enemy in place for the blurred frenzy. if you want to do garbage damage there are alot of ways. those ways are countered by the enemy walking. if you want to just generate clones to shatter them that isnt really playing well.

Punkins.2087:

Retaliation and confusion solve this ‘problem’ for me.

Then again when these threads have zero info about class, build, strategy, etc, i see a vent post… nothing more.

Retaliation and confusion does nothing on the mesmer during blurred frenzy nor it helps against Mind Wrack. Funny how a ‘problem’ can be solved.

It is the strongest combo in the game. And to be honest it is not very funny to play against a shatter Mesmer. Specially if you know you can’t avoid the damage. Stunbreaker with a cooldown of 40+sec is not really helpful. Only stuff like mist form helps but you eat the combo 12 sec later again.

How about remove invulnerable effect on Blurred Frenzy?z?No more no less. My mental is prepared for flaming :P….Poor my static Shield(

Stun Breakers are not an answer to a combo that can be repeated 2-3 more times within the cooldown of most any Stun Breaker. This thread is not over, in fact, it’s just getting started.

Privilege cries the loudest when the underprivileged join the conversation.

Would like to add that stun breakers don’t remove immobolize (aka cannot be stun broken out of) which is what sword #3 equates to. The only other thing that would keep you rooted would be stun from magic bullet. Stun breakers aren’t even the solution here, there needs to be some sort of revision on this oppressive combo. 1v1 I would think is much easier than organized team fights. Good shatter mesmers can pick off opponents easily with team aid by using this combo once—Let alone the pocket Moa elite if you become too tenacious.

I agree that the cooldown in comparison to damage and available counters is way too low for ths combo.

Those are such easy kills and unlike other classes don’t take long.

Dojo.1867:

I agree that the cooldown in comparison to damage and available counters is way too low for ths combo.

Those are such easy kills and unlike other classes don’t take long.

Pretty much.