Guild Wars 2

I’ve spent to many hours on Gw1, reaching r9 c2 g5..

I played about 20 hours in Gw2, and i’m already getting borred.

There’s no teamwork, only 10 ppl jumping like bunnies all over the map, mashing their keyboard.

Please guys, tell me i’m not the only one thinking Gw2 ruined Gw1 pvp spirit.

And oh, yes I tried tPvp.

No, I like both. They are different. I think gw2 has the same spirit as the first, but they got rid of things that didn’t work too well and introduced some new ideas. Once you get into it you realize, like the first game, there is more depth here than what appears on the surface.

People run around in a zerg in 8v8 because its faster to gain glory and rank that way currently with the scoring system, sucks but I’m sure it’ll be fixed. 5v5 tournaments can be great or a nightmare depending on who you play with. The lack of teamwork in both areas has nothing to do with this being GW2 or it’s particular brand of PvP, and everything to do with unskilled players and people that are new and have no idea what they’re doing yet.

From what I remember of GW1 pvp, you stand there with your enemy trading blows. No thanks.

The problem right now is the mode at hand. Conquest. Its not even like other games and their CP maps. In TF2 for example, there is only one point you can be focusing on at any time. Here, there are multiple. One little detachment can change the game drastically. Conquest is basically meant for zerging since there are so many variables involved.

What we need are more narrow and straightforward modes, like the Control Point thing I mentioned. For example, in Nifhel, the Red team should not be able to take the Mine (Blue’s closest point) unless they have the Keep. This means that instead of having fighting spread out everywhere, its kept close together. There would be more team battles because of this.

All in all, conquest is just a very broken mode. What we need is stuff like

Defend the Dolyak: Guard a Dolyak merchant to his final destination. Opposing team will try and kill the Dolyak’s team. Dolyak cannot be killed, but will not move unless team mates are nearby. The more teammates that are near, the faster the Dolyak moves (Yeah, this isn’t anything new)

Control Point: I already talked about this!

Capture the Flag…gon: Work your way to enemy base. Steal their Gwen mini-pet. Complain that mesmers are OP as a Guardian flies back home with leap of faith.

You’re right, it is Guild Wars 2 PvP.

Nofe.7269:

From what I remember of GW1 pvp, you stand there with your enemy trading blows. No thanks.

That’s not the gw1 I remember… And I was playing it competitively up until the gw2 release.

Kita.7819:

Conquest is basically meant for zerging since there are so many variables involved.

What we need are more narrow and straightforward modes, like the Control Point thing I mentioned. For example, in Nifhel, the Red team should not be able to take the Mine (Blue’s closest point) unless they have the Keep. This means that instead of having fighting spread out everywhere, its kept close together. There would be more team battles because of this.

Zerging means to have lots of people attack together. Conquest discourages zerging because there are multiple points to maintain. Your suggestions would only increase zergging by having singular locations where everyone would meet up at and fight for.

I rage quited sPVP after few hours of trying, Sharks + Siege engines + Downed State = No PVP for me.

milo.6942:

Nofe.7269:

From what I remember of GW1 pvp, you stand there with your enemy trading blows. No thanks.

That’s not the gw1 I remember… And I was playing it competitively up until the gw2 release.

I didn’t play even until the first expansion. Just checked a few videos of more up to date pvp. You still have to stand still to do anything, you can literally sit there and click skills at your leisure. Melee vs melee is literally trading blows, a battle of numbers. I would rather have more action and no holy trinity.

Anet hates GuildWars1 PvP’ers.
They don’t like you and don’t want you to play their game.
They blame “elitists” for ruining other people’s experiences.

The sad truth: they want GW2 to be a casualfest with no level of teamwork that GW1 had

At first I was little iffy about the thought of Conquest but it is so much better than just battling it out in a deathmatch situation. Sure the 8v8 is a zerg but that is only a problem of the glory point system. In tpvp it is madness to zerg and will make you lose.

Theres somthing very boring about the rotation of the sPVP maps, along with downed states and nothing to fight for.

@Nofe, you have no idea what are you talking about. If you just stand around, cast skills at your leisure and don’t (pre) kite you would get Warrior trained or spiked down everytime since you would be an easy target. What was the highest ranked guild you’ve played in, because to me it sounds like you have never played it (at a high level) at all.

I didn’t play even until the first expansion. Just checked a few videos of more up to date pvp. You still have to stand still to do anything, you can literally sit there and click skills at your leisure. Melee vs melee is literally trading blows, a battle of numbers. I would rather have more action and no holy trinity.

You sir, are an idiot. If you actually believe guild wars 1 pvp was just numbers and exchanging blows then u must have played 1 or 2 games tops. It was 1000 times more complex than gw2 pvp.

The funny thing is that while the design goal for GW2 was to make PvP better by making it more “accessible”, the whole thing ended up being much more bloated and confusing to grasp than the original game.

Guild Wars 2 hides most of its mechanics behind visual clutter and layers of random numbers. Incoherent and confusing mechanics (damage numbers, health pools, armor values, stat points and what they do, skill descriptions, upgrades etc.) plus hardly readable combat (lack of clear visual and acoustic spell cues, RNG, traits, animations (lolasura), spell effects, targeting, no enemy skill bar, lack of a “what’s hitting me” display… Let’s not go further.

On top of that, conquest is just not deep and engaging enough to stand as the only “competitive” PvP mode. (Yet?)

This makes for an overall much more shallow experience.

TL;DR
The only thing this has in common with Guild Wars is the lore. Sorry.

GW1 pvp was fun. But the reliance on party healers made it alot less fun to play with random people.

If the monk you got was terrible your team auto lost.

But I only played the original, I didn’t stick around for the expansions.

Note: People who say PvP is not complex on pretty much any MMO, including both GW1 and GW2, are not even close to their skill ceiling and are likely not playing at a highly competitive level.

This topic is dumb.

Im Too Godlike.5629:

I didn’t play even until the first expansion. Just checked a few videos of more up to date pvp. You still have to stand still to do anything, you can literally sit there and click skills at your leisure. Melee vs melee is literally trading blows, a battle of numbers. I would rather have more action and no holy trinity.

You sir, are an idiot. If you actually believe guild wars 1 pvp was just numbers and exchanging blows then u must have played 1 or 2 games tops. It was 1000 times more complex than gw2 pvp.

Haha this sounds like a baddy. I never played gw1, always daoc…. “You still have to stand still to do anything hahahaha” Imagine that? You would have to like pre kite and position so you would be able to use your skills. Wow, that mustve been intense as opposed to running all over spamming buttons ala World of rifthammer and other crappy mmos?

Seis.4091:

I’ve spent to many hours on Gw1, reaching r9 c2 g5..

I played about 20 hours in Gw2, and i’m already getting borred.

There’s no teamwork, only 10 ppl jumping like bunnies all over the map, mashing their keyboard.

Please guys, tell me i’m not the only one thinking Gw2 ruined Gw1 pvp spirit.

And oh, yes I tried tPvp.

I’m Rank 9 HA and Glad 8 RA and feel the same way!

Apathy.6430:

You’re right, it is Guild Wars 2 PvP.

No, GW2 PvP so far smells a lot like rehashed Jade Quary stuff. No disrespect, but as far as I’m concerned, JQ is/was for noob PvEers who need to be in a zerg to feel powerful. There’s not much skills/coordination fun in capping points.

I’m done with Gw2 atm. I love pvp game, not arcade one. I know patches and extra modes are coming, but it won’t really change anthything.

I’m glad to see that other experienced player from Gw1 are feeling the same way.

try tournament pvp.

spvp is randoms…

The thing i hate is how they ruined my Ranger and Mesmer from GW1

I’ll explain this to you in GW1 terms.
sPvP = Random Arenas
tPvP = Team Arena with a bit of GvG influence.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

I’ll explain this to you in GW1 terms.
sPvP = Random Arenas
tPvP = Team Arena with a bit of GvG influence.

No.

You can’t even compare.

He can compare if he wants, and I agree. Having about 50 tournament wins with engineer and extensive gw1 gvg experience I’d say that tpvp feels a lot like GvG. I play with some good people that are vocal and calling everything out and tactics are getting thrown around in mumble. It’s really good.

Kita.7819:

The problem right now is the mode at hand. Conquest. Its not even like other games and their CP maps. In TF2 for example, there is only one point you can be focusing on at any time. Here, there are multiple. One little detachment can change the game drastically. Conquest is basically meant for zerging since there are so many variables involved.

What we need are more narrow and straightforward modes, like the Control Point thing I mentioned. For example, in Nifhel, the Red team should not be able to take the Mine (Blue’s closest point) unless they have the Keep. This means that instead of having fighting spread out everywhere, its kept close together. There would be more team battles because of this.

All in all, conquest is just a very broken mode. What we need is stuff like

Defend the Dolyak: Guard a Dolyak merchant to his final destination. Opposing team will try and kill the Dolyak’s team. Dolyak cannot be killed, but will not move unless team mates are nearby. The more teammates that are near, the faster the Dolyak moves (Yeah, this isn’t anything new)

Control Point: I already talked about this!

Capture the Flag…gon: Work your way to enemy base. Steal their Gwen mini-pet. Complain that mesmers are OP as a Guardian flies back home with leap of faith.

I think he hit the nail on the head. This explains why I don’t like control point maps in fps games either.

Maybe even an attack and defend game mode?

milo.6942:

Nofe.7269:

From what I remember of GW1 pvp, you stand there with your enemy trading blows. No thanks.

That’s not the gw1 I remember… And I was playing it competitively up until the gw2 release.

Kita.7819:

Conquest is basically meant for zerging since there are so many variables involved.

What we need are more narrow and straightforward modes, like the Control Point thing I mentioned. For example, in Nifhel, the Red team should not be able to take the Mine (Blue’s closest point) unless they have the Keep. This means that instead of having fighting spread out everywhere, its kept close together. There would be more team battles because of this.

Zerging means to have lots of people attack together. Conquest discourages zerging because there are multiple points to maintain. Your suggestions would only increase zergging by having singular locations where everyone would meet up at and fight for.

Sure you could zerg. But a team that’s working together using strategy would trump a zerging team every time. If you’ve ever played team fortress 2 you’d see that whenever you’re playing in an 8v8 or 10v10 you can zerg, but the team that uses all the classes in a strategic effective way will win 95% of the time.

Seis.4091:

That’s not Guild wars PVP

Maybe because THIS IS NOT “Guild Wars”?!!!! This is “Guild Wars 2”, which is a complete different game. The only thing they have in common is developers and the “lore/universe”. Maybe same public, but stills a different game.

Neara.4378:

The funny thing is that while the design goal for GW2 was to make PvP better by making it more “accessible”, the whole thing ended up being much more bloated and confusing to grasp than the original game.

Guild Wars 2 hides most of its mechanics behind visual clutter and layers of random numbers. Incoherent and confusing mechanics (damage numbers, health pools, armor values, stat points and what they do, skill descriptions, upgrades etc.) plus hardly readable combat (lack of clear visual and acoustic spell cues, RNG, traits, animations (lolasura), spell effects, targeting, no enemy skill bar, lack of a “what’s hitting me” display… Let’s not go further.

On top of that, conquest is just not deep and engaging enough to stand as the only “competitive” PvP mode. (Yet?)

This makes for an overall much more shallow experience.

TL;DR
The only thing this has in common with Guild Wars is the lore. Sorry.

My thoughts exactly. It’s funny that by trying to create something that casuals could grasp easily they created a confusing and complicated mess…

Leonardoraele is right. Guild Wars 2 is an entirely different game based off of the lore of Guild Wars 1. The idea of the game is not to replicate Guild Wars 1. If they wanted to do that, they would have just created another expansion/campaign for players.

If you want to play Guild Wars 1 pvp, go play Guild Wars 1.

its just different than traditional mmo’s. thats all.
its more like LoL with an MMO-camera :P

people are in teams, but combat-wise it’s mostly everyone-for-himself.
even support characters need luck and voip to land just some support skills effectively :P

mistake no1:
everyone has a healing skill.

mistake no2:
combat is too chaotic and is very noob-friendly (tho harder to master).
u have each weapon skill dealing damage and having a billion conditions and effects.
instead of doing just that one thing that you would time perfectly to do something specific.

how to fix no1:
ok u cant remove a core mechanic like the “6-skill”, but u can change it so that not every 6-skill is a heal. u could have absorbs, immunes, teleports, invisibilities, etc…

how to fix no2:
skills should do either a type of attack (direct,over time,after time,combination of those) or one type of debuff (daze,blind,confuse,etc…)

For those who played ranger/sin/flag in Gw1, this new gameplay can be interesting.

I played W/lead. in gw1. I can’t lead anymore since players have to be independant. There’s no spike to call neither. And moreover, since fights don’t last more than 1-2 minute (I mean real engagement, which were uninterrupted in Gw1), there’s no need for observation and patience anymore. I also played a lot mez and monk. Both were very linked, since mez were trying to break the backline (and annoy opponent middle-lines, but sicne their’s no more hex and casting bar…) . Anet destroyed those 2 chars.

Every class can be independant on the field, that’s the main problem I think. The focus is on duels, and movement. In Gw1, you were nothing without your teamates.

I’m not saying Gw2 is a bad pvp-game. There is a lot of potential, indeed, but maybe for another public.

@ Seis: the main problem is, you’re comparing a game that’s had three expansions and seven years of polish/tweaking/balancing put in to a game that was released less then a month ago, whereas before, the game was only available to a select group. they’ve said several times that more modes/maps are coming and conquest would be the only map on release.

what will GW2 look like in seven years? who knows.

as you said, “give it time”. and, play a support-oriented spec in GW2 PvP. you’re pretty much useless without teammates. i ran a support elementalist in sPVP and i was pretty much worthless without a teammate to aid me. i could survive forever and a day, but… i couldn’t kill anyone, but, the super class cannons that blew everything immediately, didn’t kill me and allowed me to survive through their burst/heal and then whittle them down with conditions/cc.

Sure GW1 has been around for quite some time and got some expansions and additional campaigns, but even on release day, PvP was alot more complex and team-orientated then GW2 is after one month.

GW1 players probably hoped that GW2 would be as teambased as GW1 is, just with updated mechanics, graphics, new classes etc… It would be different but still in its heart it would be GW, which was always a game where team supporting abilities where much stronger then personal abilities.

Thats why you don’t see tools like teambuilder for this game. There is no real need to make a teambuild, where someone takes a skill just for a teammate he does not have the slot for or access to that skill, so that this teammate could use one of his skills more effectivly, which will then turn one of a third teammembers skills into THE defining skill for your team setup…

This is mostly because support abilities (I’m not just talking about pure healing) often have a long cooldown, or long casttime, or small radii, or small range or often a combination of these downsides, while their positive effect is often rather small.

What teamsupport abilities should really do is push those, who got support, by such a huge margin that they singlehandly can do more damage/control/whatever, then you two could do individually. Because then teamplay becomes important:
If two people would fight for 100% effectiveness individually, while two others would fight as a team, one being at 30% effectiveness, but the other at 190% then the team which works as a team, with one giving up his personal effectiveness for his teammate, would and up at 220% while the individuals would be at 200%.

Probably the main reason everyone thinks gw2 is not a team-based game is because the team interactions are less obvious than games that feature the holy trinity. Those roles are set in stone, you wouldn’t try to heal your ally with a warrior — you can’t! In gw2 the roles are loosened up so that each class has the ability to support, control, and damage. Which also leads to premature declarations that gw2 has no teamplay.

milo.6942:

Probably the main reason everyone thinks gw2 is not a team-based game is because the team interactions are less obvious than games that feature the holy trinity. Those roles are set in stone, you wouldn’t try to heal your ally with a warrior — you can’t! In gw2 the roles are loosened up so that each class has the ability to support, control, and damage. Which also leads to premature declarations that gw2 has no teamplay.

Just because there is no dedicated healing class, shouldn’t mean there should not be any form of usefull teamhealing. Actually it should mean, that every class should be able to heal or support teammates equally, just in different ways. Same goes for tanking and DPS.
It works for DPS. Everyone can do DPS, just how they do it is different from class to class and build to build.
Also everyone can control, it is just different from class to class…
Some can tank, some can’t.
Some can medicore support teammates, others can’t even do that.

Just because you don’t need class X (Monk/old Mesmer for example), does not mean that their roles should be completly gone. Dedicated support characters are crucial for teamplay, because by definition a support character has no impact on the battle without a team which can profit from said support.

If just everyone can do everything equally in their specc, what’s the point of giving up that for pure support, if this support just isn’t needed (and not even usefull in terms of numbers).

Varnoth maybe I didn’t explain myself properly. I was responding to those that would say the game has no teamplay. In fact it does, but the ways in which teams should act isn’t immediately obvious, and so people say that it doesn’t exist.

No this game is not GW1 in terms of teamplay/complexity (yet).
DO NOT try to say GW1 was super deep on release. The game was a complete mess in PvP and was just people zerging each others hp down while people tried to support.
Every time a new game comes out its like people throw away everything they learned the last time a new game came out, it takes some time for people to get better and for initial problems/bugs to be ironed out.

I see the people who complain about lack of teamwork are the same ones of are trying to go off on their own and start “ganking”. Get over-run and driven down into the ground and then complain.

This forum is filled with QQer’s who are playing this game like WoW. I find it hilarious people make bee-lines of their enemys thinking that its smart to rush someone head-on and pop their cooldowns.

I find people to not be creative enough to fight effectively. This game takes out the instant kill option ganking. A 1v1 fight in this game on average (i believe) is more drawn out, extended.

People are not taking advantage of dodging correcting, using line of sight, fienting, luring and exploring the capabilities of their own classes. Those people who come here complaining about getting pwned when they “click-activate” all their skills, come on to forums and copy+paste builds and dont understand the mechanics, and then flame when they dont win.

This game caters to casual players and skilled players alike. There will most likely always be someone better then you. Trust me, its those people who aren’t willing to give up and keep trying to get better that your getting schooled by.

As far as imbalances go… i’ll admit tho, rangers are really tough to deal with when they have their eye on you. (I try and sneak in from the side and catch em off guard)

Well, i thought that its just one more _kitten_hurt topic, but then i red it and… guys, just imagine that im a doctor or a police officer or your granny and tell me the truth: you haven’t played guild wars 1 vanilla on its release, have ya?
So let me tell you how it was running.
2004
no skill balance(reason – not much skills, and even less of them were ok)
no hard tactics(split? i dare you)
no variety of builds(cuz come on, fire ele had to meteor shower, and that was one of the best aoe that time and im deadly srs)
im not even telling about PvE.
etc.
p.s. im not blaming anet. No srsly, they were and they still are the user-friendliest company with all that hotfixes and support, just give them some time.

So you basically just want to play GW1, TC?

Varonth.5830:

milo.6942:

Probably the main reason everyone thinks gw2 is not a team-based game is because the team interactions are less obvious than games that feature the holy trinity. Those roles are set in stone, you wouldn’t try to heal your ally with a warrior — you can’t! In gw2 the roles are loosened up so that each class has the ability to support, control, and damage. Which also leads to premature declarations that gw2 has no teamplay.

Just because there is no dedicated healing class, shouldn’t mean there should not be any form of usefull teamhealing. Actually it should mean, that every class should be able to heal or support teammates equally, just in different ways. Same goes for tanking and DPS.
It works for DPS. Everyone can do DPS, just how they do it is different from class to class and build to build.
Also everyone can control, it is just different from class to class…
Some can tank, some can’t.
Some can medicore support teammates, others can’t even do that.

Just because you don’t need class X (Monk/old Mesmer for example), does not mean that their roles should be completly gone. Dedicated support characters are crucial for teamplay, because by definition a support character has no impact on the battle without a team which can profit from said support.

If just everyone can do everything equally in their specc, what’s the point of giving up that for pure support, if this support just isn’t needed (and not even usefull in terms of numbers).

I agree 100% on that. Fine no trinity but why make all support so weak. The absurdity of the no healing is nuts. Any good group is gonna assist targets down.

Seis, please check out this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Improved-Combat-Skill-system

The thread contains a LOT of information, but overall the point is: There are very few skills in Guild Wars 2, no customization, no player uniqueness, builds are predetermined, traits have little value.

Make sure to post a respond and spread the thread around, whether you agree or disagree.

Ive only done spvp which I have come to the conclusion blows. But the odd time in spvp that I get 1vs1 2vs2 it is good. It is very very good I think. I believe it has potential for team work once everyone knows their role and what everyone elses role is. But also I believe that the game is lacking tools to make team work come more naturally instead of hidden things like if i heal myself it gives my allies around me a speed boost. That kind of stuff just fits perfectly into a Zerg. Ok something like you have an engineer sitting with your lord say (spvp map) and someone else can call in fire from some kind of big turret he has set up. Stole that from the artillery yep. More than one warrior together can form some sort of shield wall. Stole that from the Romans yes. But yes spvp feels like a bunch of individuals running in a group.