Guild Wars 2

Basically every thief weapon besides shortbow has 0 AOE on it which makes thieves pretty bad in teamfights. Shortbow isnt too bad but why bring a thief when u can bring a necro, mesmer or engi to put up 5 times the AOE damage. Sure theives fill a niche with stealth and everything but in a 4v4 5v5 teamfight i dont see why not go with other classes that can put out way more damage.

I think the problem is that everyone else has too much aoe/teamfight damage..

^^ either way you put it lol

I think you mean burst cleave, because the sword auto cleaves just fine, and if you bring dagger storm that’s some annoying aoe as well.

Why would all weapons need AoE. If anything, AoE needs nerfing in PVP as it completely devalues all the single target weapons.

Ya if AOE gets nerfed thats fine. Same end result. IM just comparing theif to other classes. And sword autos are fine but its a small area and it it isnt ranged so you can get killed fast. Also, dagger storm is crap lol

The I want single target burst damage and stealth on par with thieves on all the other classes.

^^ stealth is a valid point but every class has its thing… But burst? lol. Eles have way more burst. Mesmers have a bit more burst except its AOE lol. Necros can burst since they can just fear u and do high damage. Warriors can also do incredible amounts of damage while ur stunned and rangers can burst with spirits while having 3k armor and a bunch of AI around… Burst is not a valid argument at all because thieves really arent very good at bursting. They are just forced to trait into it cuz everything else is bad

why would you want melee aoe with daggers? plus sword already cleaves and there’s s/p for aoe damage? :s shortbow’s good enough, unless you want pistol to have aoe or smth?

Well, daggers has aoe, it just happens to suck right now since thief condi has no coverage. Leaping Death Blossom could be made into something good.

Shortbow 2 + 4 is the best downed cleave in the game.

@Sirflame, Thief has terrible burst damage compared to almost every other class.

a mesmer to do 5 times the aoe? lolz

I’m with Jzaku on this.

I’d say Thief AoE is fine. They have cleave damage on Sword and dedicated AoE on the bow. That’s the way it should be.

The problem is that every other class has far too much AoE damage. Necros and Warriors being the biggest offenders obviously, but it applies to Engineers and others as well.

Elementalists and Rangers are less problematic in this regard because their AoE comes from specializing in it, which is a fair trade-off. Eles need a staff for solid AoE and Rangers traps. Both come at the cost of other abilities.

I think we need to stop making dramatic balance threads until after dec. 10th. No one knows for sure how it’s going to play out. I think thieves are going to come out really strong, but I could be wrong.

And yes, shortbow is already incredibly powerful.

You honestly asking for more AoE to be thrown on the battlefield ?

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

if anything aoe from other classes need to be nerfed, at least in pvp

aoe spam just promotes mindless skilless gameplay

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

^^so much this
i really wish Anet would stop listening to major QQ from clueless people and add actual trade off to classes
if you go bunker you shouldn’t do high dmg
if you go high dmg you shouldn#t be tanky
if you want high CC you have to sacrifice either survival or dmg for it etc.

the problem is that certain classes that still do high dmg while being pretty tanky

thieves don’t fit there as they can only run squishy high dmg builds and get kitten d by random aoe spam

on top of it Anet for w/e reason decided that thieves are OP and need to be nerfed to the groud, let’s beat on dead horse eh?

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

Untanky build that qualifies in your argument is also a glass fresh-air ele. Higher skillfloor than both you mentioned.

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

I appreciate your input, but next time let’s have a fight where i’m not actually busy reading flamers on my chat.

No offense but if you did pay attention i was on autorun most of the fight.

On the other hand i wasn’t saying it’s like the ultimate build or anything, i’m just trying out something else than S/D after months of rolling it, and this particular build may actually benefit from the so called “ini buff”.

edit :
To add input on top of this, i’m still switching between carrion and settlers, and between smoke screen or drake venom.
It’s still kind of a test run atm.
Alos, It has weakness ofc, but does very well against spirit rangers, mesmers, engies.
Its sorta ok against guardians.
It’s terrible against fear spamming necros and longbows.

Since you’re running a spec full of evades it would seem logical to me you’d not get much issues against me, on the other hand it’s awesome against p/d thieves.

BakiSaN.9281:

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

Untanky build that qualifies in your argument is also a glass fresh-air ele. Higher skillfloor than both you mentioned.

When did eles become viable ?

They said S/D thieves were keeping eles out from the meta, now that nobody plays thief anymore, it’s WARRIORS AND NECROS who are keeping eles out from the meta.

Why don’t we start taking a look at eles ( since they was nerfed so hard it’s not even funny) instead of complaining about thieves ?

S/D thief has an high skill cap altough low skill floor. All current meta builds aside engies ( rangers-necros-wars) can be used even by a dumb monkey.

Still it’s thieves which will be nerfed HARDER than them.

The already “weak” thieves.

Nice balance here, gimme some more.

muscarine.5136:

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

I appreciate your input, but next time let’s have a fight where i’m not actually busy reading flamers on my chat.

No offense but if you did pay attention i was on autorun most of the fight.

On the other hand i wasn’t saying it’s like the ultimate build or anything, i’m just trying out something else than S/D after months of rolling it, and this particular build may actually benefit from the so called “ini buff”.

We had a very clear 1vs1 fight at raven.

It took me 20 secs or slightly more to bring you down.

If you want to try a bunker, you should try S/P cleric, at least you’ll have pistol whip for evading ranged damage.

You’ll still lack condi cleanse, thief is overall not made for bunker builds due to how ridicolously BAD this class had been designed.

I don’t want to sound rude, but just leave thief, we’re not on par in current meta unless you play uber good ( in that case you’ll just be “slightly subpar” ).

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

Mrbig.8019:

muscarine.5136:

EverythingEnds.4261:

I actually saw yesterday some kind of Bunker/condi/aoe/ thief in solo queue ^^
He was using caltrops, daggerstorm, smokescreen and Leaping Death Blossom.
Dide quite well.
Of course he had not that much sustain like a “real” bunker, but still.

But to be honest, when I was fighting him, my thoughts were “So, has PvP rly become so low, that even thiefes are now playing aoe condi spam?”

Yea, that would be me.

I only lack on demand stability and i can join the cheesy wagon.

I’m Vanh, you played against me somedays ago ( the match was on spirit watch). I play S/D thief and we had 2 1vs1 where i killed you in less than 20 secs.

That build is ineffective, i appreciate the effort but bunker thief is not viable ( not the way you play it, at least).

Simple kiting and your main way to heal ( Caltrops) is totally negated.

I would say that thief is barely viable in current meta ( even cheese S/D thief) and we seriously have a problem with current meta builds overall.

Tanky builds deal too much dps, that’s the problem.

Untanky builds have to totally outplay their opponents in order to win ( and the only untanky builds being decent are GS-Staff mesmer and S/D thief).

Current state of game is based on slow TTK and neuts due to too high sustained damage.

Thanks god i’ve very little time to play due to IRL issues, at least i’m not raging.

I appreciate your input, but next time let’s have a fight where i’m not actually busy reading flamers on my chat.

No offense but if you did pay attention i was on autorun most of the fight.

On the other hand i wasn’t saying it’s like the ultimate build or anything, i’m just trying out something else than S/D after months of rolling it, and this particular build may actually benefit from the so called “ini buff”.

We had a very clear 1vs1 fight at raven.

It took me 20 secs or slightly more to bring you down.

If you want to try a bunker, you should try S/P cleric, at least you’ll have pistol whip for evading ranged damage.

You’ll still lack condi cleanse, thief is overall not made for bunker builds due to how ridicolously BAD this class had been designed.

I don’t want to sound rude, but just leave thief, we’re not on par in current meta unless you play uber good ( in that case you’ll just be “slightly subpar” ).

Well tbh the fight as i remember it, i was autorunning to raven replying on tchat, and the fight actually took less than 20 seconds.

Now that doesn’t mean i disagree with you tbh,.

shimmerless.4560:

Thief isn’t badly designed at all. If anything Thief is one of the classes that closest matches the original design philosophy of anticipating and reacting to incoming attacks instead of simply playing a numbers game.

There are also Thief specs that can take a phenomenal amount of punishment (Dagger, not Sword) but unfortunately they’ll be gutted come December.

“respecting desing phylosophy” doesn’t mean it’s well designed.

Engi is well designed.
Guard is well designed.
Mesmer is well designed ( but could be improved).
Necro is well designed ( but could be improved)
Ele is well designed ( but has been gutted too much by nerfs and other classes power creeping).

Ranger is horribly designed.

Thief is horribly designed.

In thief case, it’s because we lack tools, we’ve been playing with the same build-utilities from headstart, the rest is trash ( traps, tricks and pre-buff signets).

We have no defensive tools, we have to stack full damage in order to be decent damage dealers, our condi builds are a joke, venom share is patethic and gimmicky ( especially now with immo stacking).

How can you say we’re well designed is beyond me.

stop it now… riddicolous OP.

How are dagger tanks being gutted next patch? With the 33% increase on ini regen troll LDS evasion tanks will only be stronger, and unlike stealth builds they can hold points while evading.

Cynz.9437:

if anything aoe from other classes need to be nerfed, at least in pvp

aoe spam just promotes mindless skilless gameplay

i could argue that aoe promotes better gameplay, or do you reelly want to be killed by constant targeted abilities like ranger auto attack or longbow 2 on ranger? id much rather be dodging things like arcing arrow and grenades—there is alot of options for them/ you dont only have to dodge them.

Aoe forces people to not group unless absolutely neccesary

Reevz.2617:

Cynz.9437:

if anything aoe from other classes need to be nerfed, at least in pvp

aoe spam just promotes mindless skilless gameplay

i could argue that aoe promotes better gameplay, or do you reelly want to be killed by constant targeted abilities like ranger auto attack or longbow 2 on ranger? id much rather be dodging things like arcing arrow and grenades—there is alot of options for them/ you dont only have to dodge them.

Aoe forces people to not group unless absolutely neccesary

Besides you know…fighting on points.

Zenith.7301:

How are dagger tanks being gutted next patch? With the 33% increase on ini regen troll LDS evasion tanks will only be stronger, and unlike stealth builds they can hold points while evading.

they nerfed every trait that gave ini by quite a lot

Jackums.3496:

Demonts.4593:

Basically every thief weapon besides shortbow has 0 AOE on it which makes thieves pretty bad in teamfights. Shortbow isnt too bad but why bring a thief when u can bring a necro, mesmer or engi to put up 5 times the AOE damage. Sure theives fill a niche with stealth and everything but in a 4v4 5v5 teamfight i dont see why not go with other classes that can put out way more damage.

You lost all credibility when you said the Mesmer has actual AoE, let alone “5 times” that of any other class. The Mesmer’s AoE is worse than the Thief’s. At least Cluster Bomb does a few thousand damage. We have Chaos Storm, which hits with the force of a sneeze.

Actualy mesmer have good AoE with some phantasms beside Chaos Storm, and with low cd and auto aiming if the target gets to other place.

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

How are dagger tanks being gutted next patch? With the 33% increase on ini regen troll LDS evasion tanks will only be stronger, and unlike stealth builds they can hold points while evading.

they nerfed every trait that gave ini by quite a lot

They only nerfed a weaponswitch trait and the ini on stealth. Which a tank LDB build would never use.