Guild Wars 2

So ever since I started playing GW2, I love PvP, but I’ve found myself wondering, “What the KITTEN is the point?”

As it stands now, there seems to be no real reward and progression made when you “win” a PvP match. What are you winning, really?

Glory, rank, and chests.

Cool, so I get a higher rank. Cool, I get glory which is used to unlock new items, and I get chests with new stuff in it? Sounds nice.

One catch, what the kitten is glory even used for? Oh? Unlocking new gear you say?

Well what’s so special about this new gear? Nothing?! It has the same stats as my old gear?!

So let me ask the forum this question. What’s the point of it all?

Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them. PvP is just a more competitive twist on the game.

Also people who say there is “no point” to do something are absolutely right. There’s really no point to anything at all. Do what you like to do, it’s your existence.

People that like this style of pvp are in it for the glory…and i’m not talking about currency or rank. So if you dont take pride in winning, go play League of Panda’s.

Sezu.8564:

Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them. PvP is just a more competitive twist on the game.

Also people who say there is “no point” to do something are absolutely right. There’s really no point to anything at all. Do what you like to do, it’s your existence.

We should be friends, because I couldn’t have approached this thread better myself.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sezu.8564:

Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them. PvP is just a more competitive twist on the game.

Also people who say there is “no point” to do something are absolutely right. There’s really no point to anything at all. Do what you like to do, it’s your existence.

20 minutes later, I’m still chuckling. The existentialist in me salutes you good sir.

The nihilist in me boos you both :P

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

Pawstruck.9708:

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

You progress into cooler looking gear.

Jonathan , Give duels pls

@Pawstruck: No … “we don’t know it”. That is some disease brought to gaming by other games, as far as I am concerned.

What satisfy you, is not necessarily the same as what satisfies me. To me it is challenge based on equal terms; improving and competing is quite the most optimal for me. It gives me no pleasure to beat other players on unequal terms.

Progression .. if that means giving you an edge, then I completely disagree from the bottom of my heart. That belongs in WoW; there … now I have said it. If you want to show off your PvP-armor, then I can understand it, and I can even understand if you want to show it outside Mists … but again I feel it would be completely irrelevant for it to be used as real armor in WvW or in Dungeons. Again: that concept belong in some other game.

Progression is for PvE. Testing your skill with your class is what PvP is for. If you want a sense of progress while PvPing, WvW should fit the bill. As someone that plays sparingly and loves PvPing with friends who are equally busy with life, the fact that we can walk onto the PvP scene and know that the only advantage anyone has over me is based on how well we know our builds, our classes, and what everyone else is capable of is fantastic is every way. Looking forward to new aesthetics is good enough for me, and seems to be good enough for plenty of others. Thank you, ANet, for finally finding a way to truly succeed at making an MMO capable of catering to casual players and frequent players alike.

OP has a point. With all the problems in current sPvP, fun is out of question. Add to it lack of meaningful rewards, and the whole process is pointless. The only reason I am still playing it is experimenting with various builds. When that is over, I will be done.

Ackinbal.2617:

The only reason I am still playing it is experimenting with various builds. When that is over, I will be done.

Why are you experimenting if you don’t plan on doing anything with the results of your experimentation?

I wonder if ANet is doing a sociological experiment to see how far addiction will push people. There’s a glory grind, but it doesn’t advance your character beyond look. With no tangible benefit, just aesthetic, how far will people be driven by their addiction to grind any sort of XP mechanic alone when they no longer want to play?

I’d be interested in those results.

It would be nice to wear pvp gear outside of pvp. Pvp right now has one mode, no community, and zero connection to the rest of the game. Might as well have released it separately from guild wars 2.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sezu.8564:

Games used to be about having fun, at least that’s why I play them. PvP is just a more competitive twist on the game.

Also people who say there is “no point” to do something are absolutely right. There’s really no point to anything at all. Do what you like to do, it’s your existence.

20 minutes later, I’m still chuckling. The existentialist in me salutes you good sir.

My inner Crowley salutes you as well.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

By the same token I can ask: What’s the point of PvE? You kill mobs to get gear to do what?… Kill more mobs and get more gear? And so on and so forth.

Maybe there is something about the hamster wheel that creates the illusion that there is a point to it all.

The boulder will eventually roll down the hill again anyway.

@Cogbyrn – It keeps the novelty and the hopes fresh. You know, waiting for stuff to be fixed and trying to find a new workable solution myself. I don’t have too many new things left to try here, though, without running into a broken mechanic. Novelty aside, this game is a disappointment IMO.

@Geff – You are right. There are two main reasons people play games – one is the fun of spending time this way, the other is the promise of rewards that make you more “prominent” or “powerful” in your own eyes and the eyes of other people. This is all imagined, of course, but the mind likes illusions of pleasure or grandeur. PVE in this game at least looks pretty and has an appeal. PvP is different because you don’t enjoy the atmosphere, but only enjoy prevailing over your opponents and/or the rewards for the hard work, even if you lose. You can accept a loss if you learned something new or gained some rewards that will help you win in the future. Losing frequently to game bugs or broken mechanics gives no hope of future improvement as a result of your hard work, and thus makes the process of PvP utterly pointless in its current state in GW2.

I’ve been playing video games for 30 years now and its never got me paid or laid , so yeah…there is no point to playing games save for one of the two:

1: for fun
2: to satiate your addiction to pretty colors and flashing lights

Although I do relate to the OP because ive been grinding for purple gutters to be installed on the house for months but the money-sinks are killing me.

Totally agree that pvp is about having fun…

…however, I understand where OP is coming from. Some people just aren’t having fun, and I hope that changes very soon…

I’m glad they didn’t implement a gear grind for increased stats. Giving the most experienced players an even bigger edge over casuals divides the community and mucks up the spirit of true competition.

You can’t please all the people all the time, but this was a smart move that most players agree with, and I hope it becomes the industry standard.

I kind of agree with the OP. I think these kinds of posts will go away when the ranking system gets put into place. Really, the purposes of pvp are to show how good you are, and to be challenged at an appropriate level. One is to show off (which can’t be underestimated…), and the other is to have fun. I don’t think either of these are being fulfilled as they should be at the moment.

I have to agree with milo , having a ranking system would be really nice .

I feel like I have read this post countless times before… Oh wait! I have!

If your upset with the game, i suggest finding something else to do with your time. It is what it is.

The point of PvP, as any developer will tell you, is to generate revenue.

This is why paid tournies and rented servers took priority over any other meaningful changes.

I see your existentialism, and raise you one objectivist.

I ask myself that everyday.

Seeing that we have GEMS to buy account stuff like character slots, anything relating to PvE is more important than showing off how far you are in PvP.

I just bought, with gold conversion to gems, my first additional character slot. That felt great!

So, why go back to PvP if all I earn is skin packs and no money towards gems?

If you aren’t having fun with PvP, you just aren’t doing it right. Sure, there are still bugs, with yeah there are more with some classes than others, but they can always be overcome or avoided. How many times have you lost a match where all of your scores are more than those of the other team, and yet they reach 500 faster? This game is all about strategy.

There is truly no point in pvp….yes its fun….for a while… then after ~300+ games it gets boring since you do same maps all over again , theres is no “competition” when class balance is out of hand , in tpvp if you lucky you will get good team , if not you will be playing 1v5 or 4v5 what is quite the same, if you premade team with friends its noob stomping and no fun again…. And as a player that doesnt care about useless cosmetics….i dont feel like playing spvp anymore….and wvwvw is same as spvp 8v8….zerg or lose. And + to all that theres no goals in pve too…

Why anet cant implament fake goal like league of legends has… or wow…. useless but it works….Why just…WHY there cant be ratings? Or any type of ladder? For server or whole region… Yes class disbalance makes it look and sound bad , but when you will be able to release full balanced version pvp you can reset it and reward top players with some sort of reward at the time. That will at least give us fake goals that we can try to achieve and have fun while doing it and also will help to see players “Skill” level since now there might be “avangers” that can be rolled by gladiators and there might be gladiators that is realy skilled with theyr class but no chance to prove that.

To make this game fun(for me atleast… and probably alot others) this will need only 2 rating systems…
Tpvp solo que that you could only que up alone and play for solo rating in tpvp maps. (yes…like in lol…)
And team v team ratings seperated from solo ratings….

Take a look in Diablo 3…. it had no goals and was ment to have fun just by playing it…. now look at it….game that no1 plays…. do you want same to happen to GW2? Definetly i dont.

Cogbyrn, will you marry me? Gender is not important.

Sezu.8564:

Cogbyrn, will you marry me? Gender is not important.

The bromance is strong in this thread, and I couldn’t be happier about it.

Unfortunately I must decline. However, I can’t wait to see if my girlfriend finds this thread. We’re so used to people bringing hate down on me and laughing about it that I’ll be curious to see how she reacts to someone bringing the love down.

To be on topic: the point of PvP is to achieve whatever goal you set for yourself that involves PvP, and more importantly, enjoy doing it in the process. Rush put it best in one of their songs nobody probably knows:

The point of the journey is not to arrive.

People still playing D3? Interesting, I’d love to hear your source.

I played CS too for a long time, and TF2, and the Battlefield franchise, etc, for years, just for lulz and bloodshed. That’s when I was younger with plenty of time to burn. It’s 2012 now, and young bobf is all growns up with plenty of RL obligations. Current gaming marketing demographics show me in the majority bloc with many other out-of-school professionals. No, I won’t link you sources, you’re (theoretically) an adult and are competent enough to use google yourself. People with a wider life experience are no longer entertained with 8bit super mario, nostalgia aside. People without unlimited time to game want to see a result for the effort.

I don’t miss when games were one-dimensional play. I enjoyeded the innovation to FPS introducing persistence. I enjoyed the evolution of a hobby to a potentially serious esport. I enjoyed the layers of depth, gameplay and interactivity introduced to all genres to keep it fresh and competition fierce.

I certainly won’t miss these “old-school” gamers that think we should revert to a culture and paradigm from the early 90’s, while they shamelessly shill for a developer out of blind brand loyalty.

Not disappointed.

Sezu.8564:

Also people who say there is “no point” to do something are absolutely right. There’s really no point to anything at all. Do what you like to do, it’s your existence.

It is the objects themselves that are not required to have ‘a point’. The “actions” taken by the objects have purpose; regardless of whether you believe that purpose should be causal or something else.

When previously purposeless objects take action, they are defining their own purpose. If they commit themselves to inaction; that is their purpose. Objects that do not take action, can still have a purpose in being acted upon.

I have changed your philosophical reference from “a point” to “a purpose” in my explanation. Phrasing about ‘points’ is deceptive because it implies a necessity of activity scoring.

“People without unlimited time to game want to see a result for the effort.”

This is completely subjective. You’re attempting to speak for “out-of-school professionals” as a whole and it’s just not true. Many of us find this to be an enjoyable hobby and nothing more. We aren’t expecting to be pat on our backs for playing. Now I’m not saying we wouldn’t like extra features, but our reason for playing is the enjoyment factor itself, everything else comes second.

And yes, my friends and I play competitively and would love to see this game evolve into an e-sport. That does not change the fact that we play for FUN, rather than numbers, rankings, gear, kudos, bragging rights, etc. Those are all nice things to have, but they definitely aren’t necessary.

BobF.3509:

People still playing D3? Interesting, I’d love to hear your source.

I played CS too for a long time, and TF2, and the Battlefield franchise, etc, for years, just for lulz and bloodshed. That’s when I was younger with plenty of time to burn. It’s 2012 now, and young bobf is all growns up with plenty of RL obligations. Current gaming marketing demographics show me in the majority bloc with many other out-of-school professionals. No, I won’t link you sources, you’re (theoretically) an adult and are competent enough to use google yourself. People with a wider life experience are no longer entertained with 8bit super mario, nostalgia aside. People without unlimited time to game want to see a result for the effort.

I don’t miss when games were one-dimensional play. I enjoyeded the innovation to FPS introducing persistence. I enjoyed the evolution of a hobby to a potentially serious esport. I enjoyed the layers of depth, gameplay and interactivity introduced to all genres to keep it fresh and competition fierce.

I certainly won’t miss these “old-school” gamers that think we should revert to a culture and paradigm from the early 90’s, while they shamelessly shill for a developer out of blind brand loyalty.

Not disappointed.

I don’t remember claiming people still played Diablo 3. I simply requested proof. If someone states a fact, and you request proof to support that fact, is it a sufficient defense to request proof to counter the fact? Perhaps you’re a politician, and forgot what it is to support ideas with fact.

If I’m shamelessly shilling for a developer out of brand loyalty, you’re shamelessly berating the developer to fit in with your negative crowd. See how that works? If you ask me to support the idea that you’re only trying to fit in, I’ll be forced to ask you to support your idea that I’m a brand loyal fanhard.

I’m also an out-of-school professional. I spend my days working with companies both large and small. You’ve probably heard of many of them. Representatives of these major corporations often return to my company for additional contracts, requesting me by name. I spend my day working with real individuals on real problems, creating deliverables and meeting deadlines.

I’m an “adult”, and when I come home, I just want to have some fun.

Your “result” is imaginary. It can be anything, but you choose for it to be something that the game delivers, and not that you deliver yourself. I get results from playing GW2. I improve my muscle memory, internal cooldown timers, dodge timings, and expand my knowledge of how to handle various situations.

That’s the result I’m looking for. Is it not enough? Have you “grown up” to the point that you need to receive a paycheck from everything you do, or it isn’t worth your time? Do you enjoy anything for the sake of the thing instead of the reward you receive? In both cases, the only value is the one perceived. The difference is that I find mine within, while you spend time searching without.

Also, I enjoy 8-bit Mario, and always will. I like seeing how quickly I can run through platformers, as well as looking for secrets. Also, the first platforming Mario gets difficult near the end (HAMMER BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS! raises fist), and Mario 2? Forget about it.

I just like to challenge myself in as many ways as I can find that I also find enjoyable.

TL;DR – We agree to disagree, I suppose. As long as those who seek reward are vocal, I will be as well, if only as a reminder that there are still those of us who enjoy the act of playing games.

Unsinstall successful. Never felt better in my life about wasting my money on a game and finally getting rid of it.

Oh Cogbyrn, you’re little wordgames are amusing to be sure. You make some snide comment about political brinksmanship, then say something obtuse like “uh, where did I say people were playing D3, I just want facts.” Okay bud. Anyone capable of using Google can get linked to Forbes and read for themselves.

The rest of your post is riddled with the same condescending, pejorative tripe, even citing some kind of inferred IRL resume. What a joke. The point of my statement was to cite gamer demographics, and how values change when it comes to leisure activity. You’ll notice that my statements didn’t include me attempting to prop up some typical consulting gig (“requested by name,” lol). Talk to us about that stuff when you’re good enough to get hired long-term to call strategies instead of being what amounts to essentially a corporate suggestion servant.

The edification you find in these games is fine for you, but I don’t think they’re rocket science. You want to really improve muscle memory? Play golf. It’s about 9001% more difficult than online gaming. Want to improve handling various situations? Try going for a executive mgmt position instead of telling us how awesome you are working for others. There’s about 9001% more situational awareness needed than online gaming. My point is that these leisure activities are amusing shadows of our meatspace existence, and some people want more than just “playing the game.” That’s what lead to the initial innovations I spoke of before.

If people just playing for the sake of playing were truly the majority, then gaming would be the same genres and features as decades ago. Since they aren’t, and franchises like CoD start setting records bigger than opening weekends of Hollywood blockbusters, then I can safely suggest to ANet to start providing the platforms their playerbase is demanding for more “fun.” In this case, rankings and ladders. People want to wave their peen in the air and point to some number on a website proving their existence has worth, and meaning. If they dont have that, they will move on.

Remember your little dodge regarding d3? Well, read that Forbes article. There’s a reason why people seem “to go back to” LoL. The same will happen here if the dev teams don’t get reorganized into triage, fire-alarm mode for sPvP. You guys who just play for playing’s sake do not sustain businesses. Not for a couple decades now. Sorry.

I play for fun, and despise the gear treadmill so this game was a breath of fresh air for me. That’s the point, fun. Why can’t people just enjoy things for what they are anymore?

GW2 is about how good you are and not how much you play.
there’s plenty of other games out there if u think time>skill.

you play the game to find new funny ways to nerf thief.
it worth the time spent playing gw2.

I tend to agree, people play sports for fun but they still keep score, track your record and have playoffs at the end of each season. Simply playing against a mass of random people with no community, no rankings, no records, no stats, no playoffs, etc. gets boring and is quite pointless. Hell even beer league kickball teams track your record and have playoffs.

Spvp is currently a mindless zergest. Tourney pvp is premades stomping pugs and there is zero community with the exception of a handful of people who are forced to queue together to get into the same tournament, something Anet should have made possible at release.

Sports leagues, just like pvp-based games, become popular due to community, rivalries and balance (read: equal skill playing eachother). Currently GW2 pvp has none of this.

GW2 pvp is currently the equivalent to NFL pre-season games. Top players dont want to play, scrubs get playing time, and the commissioner wants fans to pay for it.

I remember a time when posts weren’t riddled with fallacies and were actually informative. Everyone plays for different reasons, let’s not use absolutes.

EDIT – I don’t think a single person here is arguing AGAINST having those kind of features in the game. Let’s not forget what the OP was about.

Umm the progession is there, and it does exist. Its just not the type of progression that gives you an unfair advantage. If you want that go do wvw.

Poxxia.1547:

@Pawstruck: No … “we don’t know it”. That is some disease brought to gaming by other games, as far as I am concerned.

What satisfy you, is not necessarily the same as what satisfies me. To me it is challenge based on equal terms; improving and competing is quite the most optimal for me. It gives me no pleasure to beat other players on unequal terms.

Progression .. if that means giving you an edge, then I completely disagree from the bottom of my heart. That belongs in WoW; there … now I have said it. If you want to show off your PvP-armor, then I can understand it, and I can even understand if you want to show it outside Mists … but again I feel it would be completely irrelevant for it to be used as real armor in WvW or in Dungeons. Again: that concept belong in some other game.

I <3 you…. this is everything I was thinking on the topic (albeit more passionate than Id have worded it). You sir, get all the cookies.

can we stop with all the WoW references. DAoC was probably the best pvp mmorpg ever and it had end-game pvp progression via Realm Ranks which rewarded titles and limited abilities that gave an ever so slight edge.

@BobF.

Wow. What a spiraling rant. Allow me to share one of my own.
Please stop assuming you speak for anyone of any demographic. You post your opinions and nothing more. Citing random examples of games that succeed or fail based on their business model proves utterly nothing.

I find it hilarious that in one sentence you talk about innovation being important, and then in the next you talk about how succesful a series like CoD is, a series notorious for its same old, same old reiterations.

As far as the need for progression goes, sure, some people feel the need to be reaffirmed by a number, some honour, a rank, +25 elo etc. These systems are designed to keep the people playing who AREN’T playing for fun, or just for the feeling of competition. Some people just need to be told “Yes Bobby, you’re a good kid, you did very well, you didn’t win, but hey here’s a gold star anyway!” Not everyone needs this reaffirmation to remain dedicated to bettering themselves AND HAVING FUN.

But for the sake of argument, you mention League of Legends. Well, as someone who played since beta, you realise that for a LONG TIME there was no Ranked, no ratings other than a hidden elo, not even draft mode. Yet this game had millions upon millions of people playing it just for the sake of the game. Were they getting anything out of it? No, they were actually dumping money IN to it for cosmetic upgrades and to unlock characters just so they could play it MORE. And this game has gone on to be ridiculously successful, even tho a good portion of its life did not have the “incentives” that you mention.

“You guys who just play for playing’s sake do not sustain businesses. Not for a couple decades now. Sorry.”

I’m sorry too, read above and bear witness to the destruction of this argument and understand that in LoL, one of the most successful games of all time, people actually SUSTAIN THE BUSINESS just so they can play with more variety (more champs and cosmetic upgrades) not just so they can stroke their peen.

Ratings are coming, much like in lol, they will be brought in when they are ready. You seem to forget that LoL didn’t start out at the point that it is, over time it grew into the celebrated eSport it now is, much like Guild Wars 2 has the potential to do. People are just impatient and come here to whine and doomsay, as if their tiny voices were the majority.

The point in the sPvP in this game is the Fun it might bring you,
if you dont find it Fun, then yeah, you wont find a really good point in it

And LoL is a bad example for that point, in League u can buy runes/rune pages/etc, so is not exactly like GW2

Dota2 could be more like GW2 because u can sustain the game and get only aestetics upgrades and Exp boosts! wich many do already!

Spvp for fun

Tpvp to show my team better than yours.

Go back to wow if you need a reason to pvp , carebear.

Might as well say what the point of CS… LOL Call of duty noobs, got to love them.

ConterK.3972:

The point in the sPvP in this game is the Fun it might bring you,
if you dont find it Fun, then yeah, you wont find a really good point in it

And LoL is a bad example for that point, in League u can buy runes/rune pages/etc, so is not exactly like GW2

Dota2 could be more like GW2 because u can sustain the game and get only aestetics upgrades and Exp boosts! wich many do already!

http://youtu.be/Dq0llrCYtCQ

:)

I love it when people bring up LoL when Dota is like ten times better.

djtool.8372:

I’ve been playing video games for 30 years now and its never got me paid or laid

Then you played wrong

Edit:

Added a line of completely worthless and annoying text in order to avoid forum infraction due to too short post.

There really is no point to spvp or tpvp except some random fun every once in a while. I feel like WvW, for all its flaws, is a much more rewarding pvp experience in this game.

When did this “we need progression for gaming to be meaningful” start?
Yes, its a good motivator to have some progression. But I never ever saw someone quit Counter-Strike saying “LOL i got a deagle and AWM already, endgame sucks, im out!!!111”
Its so refreshing to have MMO style PvP without power progression. Although I agree the bragging rights from sPvP should carry over to the open world (not WvWvW though).

Well, progression was introduced to games to keep the players occupied and make the whole thing cheaper to develop. Progression tricks you into thinking that the game has more content that it actually does. I have nothing against progression elements, it has been a core feature for RPGs for a long time now, but some games clearly overdo it. For me, basing a game solely around progression is akin to adding addicting substances to food… a shady business practice. Of course, it is good for business and so the games have been educating the players into the elitist asocial egomaniacs for quite some time now. I am happy that ANet tries to go agains the trend here.

I don’t want to insult anyone here, but if you don’t actually play games for fun and joy they bring, than you probably shouldn’t play them in the first place. Gaming without fun is a dysfunctional time-filling activity. Of course, there are professional players who play games for the competitive aspect, but I can’t imagine these players complaining about the lack of rewards – because they already have the ultimate reward: fame