Guild Wars 2

Where do you guys expect the meta to head after the December 10th update?

This could be include different roles that professions will fill, new viable builds, different team strategies (burst vs condi pressure), etc. What are your thoughts?

I do not see the meta changing at all honestly. Because how are they really removing nerfing conditions? You will see Mesmer instead of thief prob, but that will be it imo.

I could be wrong, but I’d expect a move to heavy burst.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I could be wrong, but I’d expect a move to heavy burst.

What makes you think that?

Probably towards the next game. It sounds super harsh to say, but the list of discontent players seems to be growing.

after releases like this;
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Read that article and tell me what of this in regards to PvP have you seen?..
Any sign of these new traits/skills?
Any sign of reward focus?
Any sign of expanded builds?

This is what is gutting players. No new builds, just making old favourites being made less viable. No rewards apart from some PvE stuff that didn’t go down well. No new traits or skills.

I personally would hate to see the guild wars franchise not succeed to the fullest. There is many elements I think are truly fun..but sPvP/soloQ/tPvP is not among them. With alternate platforms all about to be released before years end that only creates further competition of things players can log into.

Based on how people are playing right now, it feels like it’s going to move more towards CC→Burst. Whether the burst comes from Power or Condition Damage can technically go either way, but if Warrior Hammers stay then Necros will have problems and things will probably lean more towards Power.

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

You have been warned.

Rarnark.5623:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I could be wrong, but I’d expect a move to heavy burst.

What makes you think that?

He’s a condition meta apologist that tries to deflect attention away from how easy yet overpowered condition application (spam) has become in this game.

after releases like this;
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Lol, I was like oh cool new content, skills, traits and stuff… then i saw the date..

If i was a meta i would go here:

after releases like this;
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

From the Gw2 July Prophecies – The major focus of the PvP team for the second half of the year will be tied to improving the sense of reward in PvP.

Any indication of this happening? I hope this is still the case, that they have a surprise waiting before the end of year in regards to reward. Like a MASSIVE major overhaul of the pvp rewards system is the next big thing that needs to be accomplished.

condi bunkers meta, obviously

I’m expecting to see more off-guards EU. They are already pretty strong, and I think with the recent fury change people are going to figure out some working off-guard-builds as well. Problem is, when you currently see a off-guard, they are mostly awfully traited or are picking f.e. a staff.

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

As long as they dont do something drastical about condition dmg the meta will stay as it is..
Power dmg requires precision and crit dmg..
While condition dmg requires only condition dmg..

Imo Amulets-runes-sigils should be reworked..

Why there is not an amulet for Precision-healing power-power(or vitality)?
And since they “want” to bring down conditions, why dont they bring down some numbers on the condition amulets?
It will only affects the pvp and it wouldnt matter in some “pressure” conditions like Chill, weakness etc…
It will only hurt bleed and burn.

There is no meta. What happens is people play, then whine about X Build instead of adapting to it. Anet Nerfs X Build, so players move to Y build, and the cycle repeats.

Teutos.8620:

I’m expecting to see more off-guards EU. They are already pretty strong, and I think with the recent fury change people are going to figure out some working off-guard-builds as well. Problem is, when you currently see a off-guard, they are mostly awfully traited or are picking f.e. a staff.

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

How they’re “fixing” S/D is snapping the only leg it had to stand on, which was Shadow Return. The only thing that kept them from being obliterated by CC.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

There is no meta. What happens is people play, then whine about X Build instead of adapting to it. Anet Nerfs X Build, so players move to Y build, and the cycle repeats.

There is no santaclaus. What happens is that a fat man in a red suit goes all over the world and drops presents at your christmas tree.

Oh god the Looking ahead GW2 in 2013 post is so depressing to read again now.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well.

This just never happened. An entire year, and nothing.

2013 – The stale condition meta with a smattering of Warriors.

Ezrael.6859:

Oh god the Looking ahead GW2 in 2013 post is so depressing to read again now.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well.

This just never happened. An entire year, and nothing.

2013 – The stale condition meta with a smattering of Warriors.

Are you talking about tpvp? Because there is no way you can call this a condition meta unless you are way out of touch. It is the warrior meta. Having 2-3 warriors makes the game easy mode. Imagine you are playing with classes such as warrior, thief and spirit ranger. ALL are VERY HARD to kill. And yet all put out insane damage/cc/buffs.

When you run a comp with these classes it really is easy mode vs anyone who doesnt run a comp like this. You can play to win 500-0 and you will win 500-0 alot with these classes.

Because rotations become easy. You can snowball onto far point and make them fight there. If they push another point you have a warrior/ranger there. Who win 1v1 alot and yet can survive for some time vs 2 people too. Then you can rotate your guardian back and have a team fight on that point. The warrior/ranger have everything. And thief will always be strong, whatever build is used. Because it is mobile and have stealth/evasion.

So imagine you have a warrior/ranger/thief team. You can press all 3 points every single game. And it is really hard to counter. In fact the only counter is to press 3 points yourself. But then the game becomes spread out. And then you are fighting 1 on 1 vs a warrior. Which nobody can win. Or 2 on 2 vs a warrior and spirit ranger. All whilst they can easily support the fight with a 3rd person if necessary.

So the meta is a “god mode” meta. Spirit rangers and warriors are god mode. And easy to play. If you run a necro it is easy to kill because it is slow and no evasion. So when you push far to snowball a game it is a big risk because the necro can easily die and leave you in big trouble. Same with other classes like ele and mesmer without portal or mass invis.

These classes, espicially warrior, do everything. Best in 1v2. Best in team fights. Best 1 on 1. Very fast. So currently in tourny queue there is alot of not close games between teams with similar skilled players purely due to composition.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ezrael.6859:

Oh god the Looking ahead GW2 in 2013 post is so depressing to read again now.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well.

This just never happened. An entire year, and nothing.

2013 – The stale condition meta with a smattering of Warriors.

Are you talking about tpvp? Because there is no way you can call this a condition meta unless you are way out of touch. It is the warrior meta. Having 2-3 warriors makes the game easy mode. Imagine you are playing with classes such as warrior, thief and spirit ranger. ALL are VERY HARD to kill. And yet all put out insane damage/cc/buffs.

When you run a comp with these classes it really is easy mode vs anyone who doesnt run a comp like this. You can play to win 500-0 and you will win 500-0 alot with these classes.

Because rotations become easy. You can snowball onto far point and make them fight there. If they push another point you have a warrior/ranger there. Who win 1v1 alot and yet can survive for some time vs 2 people too. Then you can rotate your guardian back and have a team fight on that point. The warrior/ranger have everything. And thief will always be strong, whatever build is used. Because it is mobile and have stealth/evasion.

So imagine you have a warrior/ranger/thief team. You can press all 3 points every single game. And it is really hard to counter. In fact the only counter is to press 3 points yourself. But then the game becomes spread out. And then you are fighting 1 on 1 vs a warrior. Which nobody can win. Or 2 on 2 vs a warrior and spirit ranger. All whilst they can easily support the fight with a 3rd person if necessary.

So the meta is a “god mode” meta. Spirit rangers and warriors are god mode. And easy to play. If you run a necro it is easy to kill because it is slow and no evasion. So when you push far to snowball a game it is a big risk because the necro can easily die and leave you in big trouble. Same with other classes like ele and mesmer without portal or mass invis.

These classes, espicially warrior, do everything. Best in 1v2. Best in team fights. Best 1 on 1. Very fast. So currently in tourny queue there is alot of not close games between teams with similar skilled players purely due to composition.

Please tell me who runs a thief aside Cheese mode here in EU.

They already said they’ll drop thief as soon as 10th december balance patch hits.

It’s really silly for you, as a necro, to complain about this situation.

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ezrael.6859:

Oh god the Looking ahead GW2 in 2013 post is so depressing to read again now.

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well.

This just never happened. An entire year, and nothing.

2013 – The stale condition meta with a smattering of Warriors.

Are you talking about tpvp? Because there is no way you can call this a condition meta unless you are way out of touch. It is the warrior meta. Having 2-3 warriors makes the game easy mode. Imagine you are playing with classes such as warrior, thief and spirit ranger. ALL are VERY HARD to kill. And yet all put out insane damage/cc/buffs.

When you run a comp with these classes it really is easy mode vs anyone who doesnt run a comp like this. You can play to win 500-0 and you will win 500-0 alot with these classes.

Because rotations become easy. You can snowball onto far point and make them fight there. If they push another point you have a warrior/ranger there. Who win 1v1 alot and yet can survive for some time vs 2 people too. Then you can rotate your guardian back and have a team fight on that point. The warrior/ranger have everything. And thief will always be strong, whatever build is used. Because it is mobile and have stealth/evasion.

So imagine you have a warrior/ranger/thief team. You can press all 3 points every single game. And it is really hard to counter. In fact the only counter is to press 3 points yourself. But then the game becomes spread out. And then you are fighting 1 on 1 vs a warrior. Which nobody can win. Or 2 on 2 vs a warrior and spirit ranger. All whilst they can easily support the fight with a 3rd person if necessary.

So the meta is a “god mode” meta. Spirit rangers and warriors are god mode. And easy to play. If you run a necro it is easy to kill because it is slow and no evasion. So when you push far to snowball a game it is a big risk because the necro can easily die and leave you in big trouble. Same with other classes like ele and mesmer without portal or mass invis.

These classes, espicially warrior, do everything. Best in 1v2. Best in team fights. Best 1 on 1. Very fast. So currently in tourny queue there is alot of not close games between teams with similar skilled players purely due to composition.

Please tell me who runs a thief aside Cheese mode here in EU.

They already said they’ll drop thief as soon as 10th december balance patch hits.

It’s really silly for you, as a necro, to complain about this situation.

We use thief and ele. We are still learning but its not bad at all

I forsee bunker meta (which is really no change). Warrior will still be heavily used.

Thief will be dead, the role can be filled by a warrior.

Excalibur.9748:

I forsee bunker meta (which is really no change). Warrior will still be heavily used.

Thief will be dead, the role can be filled by a warrior.

Thief will always be viable. It just has stuff other classes dont have. So will always be decent and playable.

DIRECTION OF THE META

Bunker sustain meta coming up.

Predictions

• Warriors will most likely move towards LB/Sx2 Condi builds after H/LB gets nerfed. (They will continue to be broken)

• Most likely the return of D/D eles with something like 0/0/30/10/30 Builds.

• Mesmer will come back as the main burst class of this meta.

• Necromancers will strongly shift towards power well builds after engineers/eles get buffed (No more free food)

• Rangers #’s will decrease by a lot after the spirit nerfs. (doubt BM or trapper will be to viable on the upcoming meta unless pet dmg is greatly increased)

• Thief will slowly fade away. Everything will be prove to be more challenging to kill forcing the average thief to go into faceroll classes.

It’s alright, I have a thief build to melt all bunkers if that’s where the meta goes. Fear not fellow thieves, Caedalade will save the day. Death to bunkers, down with oppression.

“Do remember, though, that sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like.”

Narcarsis.5739:

It’s alright, I have a thief build to melt all bunkers if that’s where the meta goes. Fear not fellow thieves, Caedalade will save the day. Death to bunkers, down with oppression.

“Do remember, though, that sometimes the people you oppress become mightier than you would like.”

Is that you Burnfall? lol jk

Stop crying guys, we’re giving you free legendaries, Pvp Rewards Fixed
~John Peters.(Not Really)

Next meta I predict we’re going to see a strong showing of Mesmer/ApexSinceReleaseStillGettingBuffedGuard/Necro/Engi/0skillBM Ranger type groups.

Meta Warrior will rotate to M/S GS build probably…
Just joking about mesmers though; probably still gonna be a warrior in that slot.
Unless they rotate to Condi instead of M/s Gs and then what’s the point of bringing em?

Darnis.4056:

Stop crying guys, we’re giving you free legendaries, Pvp Rewards Fixed
~John Peters.(Not Really)

Next meta I predict we’re going to see a strong showing of Mesmer/ApexSinceReleaseStillGettingBuffedGuard/Necro/Engi/0skillBM Ranger type groups.

Meta Warrior will rotate to M/S GS build probably…
Just joking about mesmers though; probably still gonna be a warrior in that slot.
Unless they rotate to Condi instead of M/s Gs and then what’s the point of bringing em?

They don’t freaking die.

That’s the reason.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Excalibur.9748:

I forsee bunker meta (which is really no change). Warrior will still be heavily used.

Thief will be dead, the role can be filled by a warrior.

Thief will always be viable. It just has stuff other classes dont have. So will always be decent and playable.

Running a thief simply for shadow refuge, after 10th december balance patch, would be plainly idiotic and absurd, since the thief won’t be effective anymore.

Mrbig.8019:

Darnis.4056:

Stop crying guys, we’re giving you free legendaries, Pvp Rewards Fixed
~John Peters.(Not Really)

Next meta I predict we’re going to see a strong showing of Mesmer/ApexSinceReleaseStillGettingBuffedGuard/Necro/Engi/0skillBM Ranger type groups.

Meta Warrior will rotate to M/S GS build probably…
Just joking about mesmers though; probably still gonna be a warrior in that slot.
Unless they rotate to Condi instead of M/s Gs and then what’s the point of bringing em?

They don’t freaking die.

That’s the reason.

they really don’t..

and even by sneezing they can apply 24h bleeds and torments. not to mention with the undeserved LB F1 buff

Ya condi warriors are gonna be the home node guy.

@MrBig

Good thieves will still be able to play their class. If you’re that upset about what some dude theorycrafted on an excel sheet, when the patch isn’t even out, then you might want to think about playing another class anyway.

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Excalibur.9748:

I forsee bunker meta (which is really no change). Warrior will still be heavily used.

Thief will be dead, the role can be filled by a warrior.

Thief will always be viable. It just has stuff other classes dont have. So will always be decent and playable.

Running a thief simply for shadow refuge, after 10th december balance patch, would be plainly idiotic and absurd, since the thief won’t be effective anymore.

Not just for that. it will still be decent. Really. Just the mobility helps alot. Good damage. Stealth. Its a strong class inherently.

Ezrael.6859:

Rarnark.5623:

NevirSayDie.6235:

I could be wrong, but I’d expect a move to heavy burst.

What makes you think that?

He’s a condition meta apologist that tries to deflect attention away from how easy yet overpowered condition application (spam) has become in this game.

Hmm, well that was a bit angry-sounding. I’ve tried to make it clear that I don’t defend any particular builds, especially cheese builds.

I expect a move to burst if good teams start playing or if good players start solo queuing. If that doesn’t happen, yes, it’s possible we’ll see a ton of s/s longbow. I expect that because really good players don’t just roll something because it’s forgiving.

Condis are never going away guys. Even if the good players come back, do you really think they’re gonna pass up getting 3k armor, protection through Forge Runes, and getting 1k condi damage?

Settler’s Undead runes or Settler’s Forge runes are really strong for home node and 1v1s on a variety of classes.

Relentless.7023:

Condis are never going away guys. Even if the good players come back, do you really think they’re gonna pass up getting 3k armor, protection through Forge Runes, and getting 1k condi damage?

Settler’s Undead runes or Settler’s Forge runes are really strong for home node and 1v1s on a variety of classes.

I’m not saying condition builds would go completely away. I’d expect to see comps like 1 teamfight bunker, 1 tanky dps home to mid player, 3 heavy damage builds (probably mesmer/thief/war/necro/ele burst builds).

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mrbig.8019:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Excalibur.9748:

I forsee bunker meta (which is really no change). Warrior will still be heavily used.

Thief will be dead, the role can be filled by a warrior.

Thief will always be viable. It just has stuff other classes dont have. So will always be decent and playable.

Running a thief simply for shadow refuge, after 10th december balance patch, would be plainly idiotic and absurd, since the thief won’t be effective anymore.

Not just for that. it will still be decent. Really. Just the mobility helps alot. Good damage. Stealth. Its a strong class inherently.

Yeha, so strong that you’ll have basically no chance to win a 1vs1 against any meta class and will need to run away as soon as you meet one.

SUPASTRONK.

Mesmer is already better. After 10th december it will be obviously better.

Mrbig.8019:

Yeha, so strong that you’ll have basically no chance to win a 1vs1 against any meta class and will need to run away as soon as you meet one.

SUPASTRONK.

Mesmer is already better. After 10th december it will be obviously better.

If you can’t win 1v1s then that’s a player skill issue. The class has to tools to win a 1v1 if you outplay the other person. Yea, not exactly the best counter argument I know: Oh just outplay them. However, you have the ability to win just about every 1v1 IF you don’t mess up. Not easy to do, but possible. Saying the class sucks because you can’t win a 1v1 is pure ignorance, and even if that was the case there are several classes (such as necro) who build for team fights (losing several 1v1s) and are still more than viable.

Caed should link the 1v1 video VS backpack for insight on how to deal with every class on 1v1

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

after releases like this;
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Lol, I was like oh cool new content, skills, traits and stuff… then i saw the date..

If i was a meta i would go here:

Just bought my ticket. 8 day/7 night stay.

Narcarsis.5739:

Mrbig.8019:

Yeha, so strong that you’ll have basically no chance to win a 1vs1 against any meta class and will need to run away as soon as you meet one.

SUPASTRONK.

Mesmer is already better. After 10th december it will be obviously better.

If you can’t win 1v1s then that’s a player skill issue. The class has to tools to win a 1v1 if you outplay the other person. Yea, not exactly the best counter argument I know: Oh just outplay them. However, you have the ability to win just about every 1v1 IF you don’t mess up. Not easy to do, but possible. Saying the class sucks because you can’t win a 1v1 is pure ignorance, and even if that was the case there are several classes (such as necro) who build for team fights (losing several 1v1s) and are still more than viable.

sigh i don’t want to start arguments with you again.

Outplaying is not a good argument, you said it.

If you need to OUTPLAY it means your prof is not on par. Moreover, there’re classes you simply can’t beat.

A team must think about all these stuff. A necro ( built for teamfight) is strong 1vs1 against most classes with few counters and can handle multiple players for quite some time with plague form and blind spam.

A thief, even an acro one, won’t be able to do such thing without losing the point.

Currently thieves are not in a good place because team, in EU, start stacking bunkerish builds you can’t bring down.

In top EU solo queue all you see is wars-engies-spirit rangers-necros with some random off guard.

Against such comps thieves are borderline useless and if meta shifts towards this way, we’ll been outclassed in any possible way.

This is just a fact, i even dunno why we’re arguing: ini regen buff won’t help burst thief sustain against condi spam, so we’re left with 2 subpar option instead of only D/P trickery being subpar.

I want to believe i’ll be viable, i know i won’t.

Even if i can outplay my opponents, my contribution will be very minimal when compared to other classes.

google.3709:

DIRECTION OF THE META

Bunker sustain meta coming up.

Predictions

• Warriors will most likely move towards LB/Sx2 Condi builds after H/LB gets nerfed. (They will continue to be broken)

• Most likely the return of D/D eles with something like 0/0/30/10/30 Builds.

• Mesmer will come back as the main burst class of this meta.

• Necromancers will strongly shift towards power well builds after engineers/eles get buffed (No more free food)

• Rangers #’s will decrease by a lot after the spirit nerfs. (doubt BM or trapper will be to viable on the upcoming meta unless pet dmg is greatly increased)

• Thief will slowly fade away. Everything will be prove to be more challenging to kill forcing the average thief to go into faceroll classes.

I’d say it would be safe to place money on this bet.

Mrbig.8019:

sigh i don’t want to start arguments with you again.

Outplaying is not a good argument, you said it.

If you need to OUTPLAY it means your prof is not on par. Moreover, there’re classes you simply can’t beat.

A team must think about all these stuff. A necro ( built for teamfight) is strong 1vs1 against most classes with few counters and can handle multiple players for quite some time with plague form and blind spam.

A thief, even an acro one, won’t be able to do such thing without losing the point.

Currently thieves are not in a good place because team, in EU, start stacking bunkerish builds you can’t bring down.

In top EU solo queue all you see is wars-engies-spirit rangers-necros with some random off guard.

Against such comps thieves are borderline useless and if meta shifts towards this way, we’ll been outclassed in any possible way.

This is just a fact, i even dunno why we’re arguing: ini regen buff won’t help burst thief sustain against condi spam, so we’re left with 2 subpar option instead of only D/P trickery being subpar.

I want to believe i’ll be viable, i know i won’t.

Even if i can outplay my opponents, my contribution will be very minimal when compared to other classes.

Thing is outplaying is in the game, you can’t ignore it. It’s a bad argument because on paper it sounds easy and in the game it isn’t. But truth be told it’s part of every game in existence. You need to outplay people, that’s how you win. Doesn’t matter how you look at it. A build should not be an instant win against something else, and while you say it is against thieves it’s not. Just because you lose to certain classes or spec it doesn’t mean that everyone playing is as well. Play better or keep whining if that’s what you really want to do, it’s not going to change much. The class has the ability to win 1v1s against anything, you have the tools to do so. So instead of playing poorly learn to win.

As for bunkers, there’s a thief spec that melts them all. Just because you don’t want to venture outside of your cookie cutter builds handed to you, or you don’t have the imagination to do so (not sure which, but all I’ve seen you do on forums is whine about everything) doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

tl;dr: thief is fine, and will be fine. Learn to play.

P.S. You can try to argue with me, but you’re going to waste your time. Going to let you think what you want at this point since you always think you’re right about everything anyway

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

Excalibur.9748:

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

i dont play mesmer but as far as i know phase retreat has something called recharge!

hooma.9642:

Excalibur.9748:

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

i dont play mesmer but as far as i know phase retreat has something called recharge!

10 sec base recharge, and it sets a clone, and doesn’t need to be preset so it’s very much a semi-spamable oh kitten button.
Shadow Return on the other hand needs to be preset, and has a limited usable time, so it’s useless if the enemy gets the drop on thr thief.

Dual.8953:

hooma.9642:

Excalibur.9748:

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

i dont play mesmer but as far as i know phase retreat has something called recharge!

10 sec base recharge, and it sets a clone, and doesn’t need to be preset so it’s very much a semi-spamable oh kitten button.
Shadow Return on the other hand needs to be preset, and has a limited usable time, so it’s useless if the enemy gets the drop on thr thief.

it can be traited to 6seconds. plus initiative is not free..it takes like 6 seconds to recharge the 5 initiative it costs for the IS/IR combo.

Dual.8953:

hooma.9642:

Excalibur.9748:

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

i dont play mesmer but as far as i know phase retreat has something called recharge!

10 sec base recharge, and it sets a clone, and doesn’t need to be preset so it’s very much a semi-spamable oh kitten button.
Shadow Return on the other hand needs to be preset, and has a limited usable time, so it’s useless if the enemy gets the drop on thr thief.

So, one is used offensively and the other is used defensively. Which class was used more in the current meta again?

Thieves are already kinda useless and mesmers will completely replace them come dec 10th. You can hold on to your thief dreams if you want but there are better classes to use in tpvp.

Anet is following the footsteps of Blizzard in regards to balance, Buff something to crazy crazy op, then slightly nerf it in other areas..

Heal Signet/ZerkStance are a problem which was created like a month ago, but acknowledging you made bad changes and reverting them is impossible when your Ego has grown beyond all bounds.

Proven.2854:

Dual.8953:

hooma.9642:

Excalibur.9748:

BlackBeard.2873:

Teutos.8620:

BlackBeard.2873:

I can’t say all of the changes, but I really think Mesmers are going to be REALLY strong. Their biggest weakness was S/D, which is being fixed, and their cleansing options have been buffed pretty heavily recently. On top of that, they were never weak, just countered by the stuff that was strong. The last time a class got buffed to remove its weaknesses, we got the current warrior.

Uhm no. What are they fixing on S/D? Nothing, they already did last patch. Have you felt any change? Mesmer is ok, and will be ok, there is nothing coming that will change anything here.
Oh no! I forget about the buffs in the inspiration line and the trait switch in illusions… not. Every change listed will have absolutely no effect on the only viable 20/20/0/0/30 shatter mesmer.

I should have been clearer, S/D THIEVES are being fixed b/c they no longer have free-stunbreaks on infiltrator’s return (the #2 skill), which allowed them to so totally and completely crap all over mesmers when combined with the sword evade-spam. Mesmers now have the tools to survive/take down these theives, and never lost some heavy burst.

I also have been playing around, and interrupt mesmers have some REALLY strong skills/traits, esp: mantra of distraction (2-3x instant daze whenever), chaotic interruption (root for 2+s on daze, so a stunbreaker+condi clear needed to escape burst), bountiful interruption (5x might + other boon on interrupt), 8x vuln on interrupting a foe with daze (5pt and 15 pt in domination), as well kitten dmg vs. foes not using a skill. Combine that with some of the other powerful tools and there is a build in there somewhere that locks you down and bursts you annoyingly hard (probably S/P with GS).

Shatter will still be plenty good as well, and a good number of builds will really benefit from clearing 2x condi every heal for only adept-level trait.

is mesmer complaining about S/D’s “free” stunbreak on sword when they have the same thing on their staff, called phase retreat?

i dont play mesmer but as far as i know phase retreat has something called recharge!

10 sec base recharge, and it sets a clone, and doesn’t need to be preset so it’s very much a semi-spamable oh kitten button.
Shadow Return on the other hand needs to be preset, and has a limited usable time, so it’s useless if the enemy gets the drop on thr thief.

So, one is used offensively and the other is used defensively. Which class was used more in the current meta again?

Both are used defensively, only Phase Retreat can be used all the time, and Shadow Return can only be used if the thief initiated the attack. In fact, the clone gives PR more offensive value.
Thieves don’t have the luxery of being able to kite everything to death, and Shadow Return is one of the things that kept them “usable”. With the lose of close combat survivability due to vigor nerfs and Infiltrator’s Return, and the general ineffectiveness of kiting, and the ineffectiveness of BS burst, how exactly will Thieves be off any use to their teams after Dec 10th?