Guild Wars 2

I’ll start by providing a bit of my background. Initially i quit spvp over a year and a half ago due to how repetitive it was for me. All this time I have gained pvp experience as a wvw solo roamer.

On several solo and team matches i now play in spvp, there seems to be a lot of badmouth against wvw roamers stating things like they are PvE amateurs, zerg oriented and unskilful players. Ironically these same people call me pro without knowing the fact that i just came back to spvp from wvw. Do they fail to realize that if you excel in 1v1 (from your experience as a dueler and solo raomer) then you will be great in group within spvp? Of course there are some coordination, communication and mechanics that are different in spvp but the player’s skill you acquire within wvw helps a whole lot within spvp setting.

Some spvpers seem to think that every wvwer is a complete noob when it comes to fighting. They are usually under the delusion that wvw is only massive blobs and that anybody who plays wvw couldn’t possibly be good at small scale.

I only call them out when they play: Pu mesmer, and stealth spam p/d condition thief.

When I first started at launch I also focused more on WvW. It wasn’t necessarily because I didn’t like sPvP but more because I was just having so much fun in WvW. So I learned a lot about class mechanics and about how to kill people but when I started to focus more on tPvP I found that my rotations were usually wrong. I think the arena game is firstly about rotations and secondly about fights and so players making the transition from WvW will probably all struggle as I did. Maybe that’s what sPvP veterans are really trying to say.

I personally get my pvp fix from spvp simply as a matter of convenience.

Roaming personally isn’t for me. I don’t like the idea of being unable to quickly find an opponent for a while, or running into zergs, as well as difficulty associated in acquiring gear/consumables and being able to make the “best” possible gear set up as possible. The customization I personally find stressful. Having the amulets in pvp is simpler, and does have some pretty big drawbacks like zerker having no toughness, knights doing crap damage, celestial being OP on half the classes.. things like that.

But that being said, I have the utmost respect for roamers, especually those like Lightningblaze that play cool specs like fresh air ele, or others that play things like regen ranger or power necro. And lets be honest, those youtube montages are absolutely a blast to watch compared to watching a pvp match! And the conquest game mode gets pretty meh real fast.

If enough people are seen bad at the same thing and are all recognisable from or known to do a lot of something else, eventually the flawed conclusion will be drawn that they are bad at the former because of their association or background with the latter. Enough first impressions of people from a particular background will also result in that conclusion. Eventually someone will voice it, and those that have had similar experiences will support and back it up, and suddenly you have a stereotype that spreads. I would guess that this is why.

It’s pvp, everyone always just looks for someone to blame.

Case A: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016677

WvWers are prone to “over-rotating”

Case B: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016572

WvWers are prone to getting 1vX’d because they PvDoor too much.

LightningBlaze.4913:

They fail to realize that if you excel in 1v1 (from your experience as a dueler and solo raomer) then you will be great in group within spvp? Of course there are some coordination, communication and mechanics that are different in spvp but the player’s skill you acquire within wvw helps a whole lot within spvp setting.

Being good at your 1v1’s won’t automatically mean you’ll have sudden understanding of team support such as peeling, positioning, and awareness. The main reason why WvW roamers get so much hate is because majority (not saying all) run selfish 1v1 builds. Majority of thieves run Shadow Arts, and you can be bad with that trait line and still be effective due to the regen in stealth. You can run a 1v1 phantasm/PU mesmer and get carried by passives. Sure there are cheesy builds in sPvP too, but WvW seems to have the worst. People think they’re good when they win nearly every 1v1 with these builds, but give them a build that requires thought and they’ll have trouble processing. You can be good at 1v1’s, but in sPvP it’s conquest, and you can win every 1v1, but half your team might be losing the teamfight. After your team loses a teamfight you’ll most likely get +1’d, and you’ll be losing in the long run. Sure you’ll win your 1v1, but it will take too long especially if you can’t maintain control of a point. I’m not saying WvW players are bad, just majority of them use selfish 1v1 builds with the superior mindset that they’re gonna win every 1v1 with forgiving builds that require no thought. I know a few WvW players who are decent that came into PvP, but the sight of that is really rare. Even those rare WvW Players still have to pick up mechanics of conquest, and learn how to communicate with the team.

Marvin hit it spot on…. Being good 1v1 does not translate at all to being a good teamfighter

dont know anyone in spvp who even care bout wvw or what you say? a wvw roamer?

just wtf?

Roaming is the poor men’s SPVP, and believe me, I started as a roamer (Shadow Rejuvenation D/P permastealth thief, yay) and I loved/love roaming.

Then I discovered SPVP and men, I was awful. I was so good at roaming, I couldn’t understand why I couldn’t be good at SPVP. In my mind it was the same thing as roaming: kill or be killed. Well, it is not. Definetely not.
But it wasn’t just the fact that I was using useless builds, or that I didn’t understand the concept of “seizeing and holding points”, I was awful in duels too.

So that’s the point of why SPVP players now complains about WvW roamers being noob: they are used to kill underleveled players, and/or players who doesn’t have duels oriented builds: just imagine a Thief built for 1v1s vs a Warrior using a zerg build… that’s not a good way to learn how to play.
Moreover, they are completely ignoring the fact that SPVP isn’t only about killing, but also about conquering and holding points, helping teammates, positioning and vision.

On the other side, roamers often praises “SPVP players” for being very good.

what is wvw? i have never heard of this thingy. i can eatz it?

to answer your question: 1v1 is nice and all, but to win in tq, you need more than 1v1s. you need to to know where 9 people are at the same time, every second of the match, to be able to rotate properly. further, you have to know and understand the professions and the builds of 9 people at the same time, every second of the match, to be able to position yourself properly during teamfights or in 1v1/1v2 situations.

plus, there are a few major differences in 1v1ing in wvw and in pvp. while in wvw roaming you nearly have to use the terrain and spread out to be able to fight and defeat 3 or more enemies at the same time, (since nobody will run around alone anymore, it seems.) in spvp, you have to NOT do this, since your main priority is not the kill, but the cap. you cannot cap in stealth or while running around in circles and jumping over ledges.
kills over longer periods of time are also not viable, for example: with my triple cantrip celestial d/d or s/f berserker ele, i can beat any warrior at my mmr i come across, but it takes from 1,5 to 3 minutes. i admit, the thrill to kill is powerful, but you have to disengage in pvp. you’re needed elsewhere.

you see, it’s not that wvw roamers are considered bad players, they’re just feared for overrotating (or simply bad rotating), zerging, fighting off point and having to kill everything they see, no matter how long it takes.

a lot more things have been said by marvin that are also very important.

you, as an ex pvp player coming back from wvw solo roaming can be considered someone who understands the basics of rotating etc. plus bringing in awesome 1v1 skills, which should make you an asset for a lot of teams out there.

1) like marvin said, wining a 1v1 with a selfish 1v1 build is easy.
winning a 1v1 with a “team-useful” build , in time, on point, knowing where to move next, is far harder.

2) Again, the point of above conquest mechanics.
You can lose every single 1v1, but if you have map awarness, you will decap, steal an objective, prevent a decap, help finish/stomp the cruical target in teamfight…. even if you can just 1v2 for long enough time, youre a worthy player and asset to your team

3) Amulets vs higher stats
amulets force u to make decisions. The higher and customizable stat pool, can cover too many weakneses, mainly always going for just bit of toughness
And then theres food…

4) PvE bad players vs Matchmaking , lower average
im not saying anything about the top WvW roamers. its just that from 100 poeple, theres 10 good ones, some average and some badies straight from PvE. This means your build meant to fight the average enemy.
In Tpvp , youl always be playing against the top 10% good ones.

Example:
-In Tpvp, my ranking puts me against top 90-100% of all pvp players
-In hotjoin, you can face random between 0-100%

5) PvP = more action
in pvp i fight every 30s, often not even getting out of combat when walking between points. In wvw you walk for 5min, kill 1 pve noob, then walk again. you get slower fighting experience

6) WvW popularity
theres quite a bit of players, actual 30+ man guilds playing wvw. Were sometimes jelaous of the higher playerbase and want them to join the dark side

Hope it helps, the important part was points 1&2:
-a pvp player can fight, with a team build, alone or 5v5, on node, with time limit, be aware of 5 enemy positions on map, enemy classes a.k.a. which fights to pick, special objective
-a wvw roamer can fight, most only with a safe 1v1 build

I believe that the hate comes from misunderstandings (as usual).

Firstly, roamers come to PvP unconsciously thinking that their solo skills are enough to help the team win. In fact, these skills do matter, but are not enough, as has been said by other posters – rotations, map awareness, node control are essential aspects to master as well. Being a former roamer myself, this is something I had to learn the hard way (and am still learning).

Note that any player proficient in one game mode thinks he’ll do reasonably well in other ones, even though there’s no basis for this. A WvW roamer might not be able to solo the Lupicus in under 6 minutes. A PvPer might not solo-take down a whole camp in 40 seconds.

Secondly, PvPers who have never done any roaming don’t really know what it’s about, and put in the the same bag than zerging (for those who do not know what solo-roaming is: you take enemy camps and protect your own, annihilate enemy roamers, protect or attack supply routes, contest enemy holdings, scout enemy movements, all of this coordinated with the strategies of the map commanders). It’s simply the standard whole community group hate coming from ignorance – and of course, every community is subject to this.

PVEers are not differentiated between Open World content, EotM, HL group dungeon, solo/duo dungeon. WvWers and not differentiated between zerging, solo/group roaming, optimized guild runs and GvG. PVPers are not differentiated between Conquest and… err… still looking (although we have some cool freshness in some players’ initiatives, like 2v2s or 3v3s). Nevertheless, all these game sub-modes require different skills, some being pretty high level.

Just ignore the hate (might not be easy!), and keep an humble mind when playing. Just my 2c.

maybe because they usually suck in pvp without crazy stats, level difference, candy canes, pies, consumable buffs, guild buffs, legendary crap and wihout kilometers of map to hide and reset fights? Saw many good tpvp players actually destroying everything while roaming in zerg vs zerg…never saw someone who mainly roams in zerg vs zerg playing in top ladder tho….killing random ppl (Or dolyaks lol) while permastealthing is really different from going into teamfight where you can lose dat fight and maybe the whole match if you make a mistake..even a single one.

There are very valid points stated on this thread. Long story short it is all about misunderstanding, assumption, inexperience and rumors about wvw roamers. Like i stated, the mechanics are different but it doesn’t take much time to adjust and play accordingly within this spvp environment. As a group wvw roamer, you also learn to be a team player and being aware of your surroundings (including your team mates, opponents and specially zerg) is absolutely critical.

I agree there are a couple of cheese or easy mode builds that require very little player’s skill to perform well. If you didn’t know this is intended on every mmorpg. The main purpose why these builds exist is for newcomers to stand a chance against more experienced players.

I also believe the ranking system is completely flaw and inaccurate. It does not represent individual player’ skills because everything is as a team. How else can you explain on my first day coming back to spvp, i played 4-5 hours straight and got to rank 14. I take a rest for 2 days and my rank is all the way down to the thousands again lol.

@OP:

There is nothing wrong with roamers and their 1v1 skill (other than if they use a WvW spec like PU mesmer or P/D thief). The bigger issue is when those roamers come into PvP and just focus on the 1v1 fights. That’s must less important than knowing how to rotate, how to team fight, etc.

It’s not just their ‘1v1 skill’. Most of them aren’t even good at that, they don’t read their opponents animations. The last time I went to WvW I had full exotic gear. I met an opponent warrior who had 4 legendaries, was full ascended, infused, had the best food, buffs, guard stacks and all this other kitten that kept adding up. It was like a level 70 vs 80 and I had to significantly outplay them to win…the stats are so huge, you can get carried by them.

That is why they get hate…it’s nothing to do with their own ability but they come to PvP expecting it to be the same as when they roam, whereas WvW is completely unbalanced and uneven…not to mention all the runes (perplexity).

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

LightningBlaze.4913:

They fail to realize that if you excel in 1v1 (from your experience as a dueler and solo raomer) then you will be great in group within spvp? Of course there are some coordination, communication and mechanics that are different in spvp but the player’s skill you acquire within wvw helps a whole lot within spvp setting.

Being good at your 1v1’s won’t automatically mean you’ll have sudden understanding of team support such as peeling, positioning, and awareness. The main reason why WvW roamers get so much hate is because majority (not saying all) run selfish 1v1 builds. Majority of thieves run Shadow Arts, and you can be bad with that trait line and still be effective due to the regen in stealth. You can run a 1v1 phantasm/PU mesmer and get carried by passives. Sure there are cheesy builds in sPvP too, but WvW seems to have the worst. People think they’re good when they win nearly every 1v1 with these builds, but give them a build that requires thought and they’ll have trouble processing. You can be good at 1v1’s, but in sPvP it’s conquest, and you can win every 1v1, but half your team might be losing the teamfight. After your team loses a teamfight you’ll most likely get +1’d, and you’ll be losing in the long run. Sure you’ll win your 1v1, but it will take too long especially if you can’t maintain control of a point. I’m not saying WvW players are bad, just majority of them use selfish 1v1 builds with the superior mindset that they’re gonna win every 1v1 with forgiving builds that require no thought. I know a few WvW players who are decent that came into PvP, but the sight of that is really rare. Even those rare WvW Players still have to pick up mechanics of conquest, and learn how to communicate with the team.

Really well said

I’ll start with this. Hate is never good and it actually wont fix anything. If someone is not acting accordingly in sPvP I’d hope that other fellow sPvP vets would educate instead of flaming.

That being said really bro its just about the fact that sPvP isn’t about some 1v1 glory and fame or really an ego of any kind. True sPvP is about teamwork, rotating properly, making proper call outs, & being supportive within your class role. In sPvP you win as a unit not as an individual. Some WvW folks choose to ignore this and by the time their glorious 1v1 is over and mid’s been wiped and its all catch up from there lol. (This would be the part where every starting flaming the guy) Sure you get caught up in the occasional 1v1 situation at the end of a node fight and 1v1 skill is important but honestly any sPvP vet can 1v1. Its not more valuable to be able to 1v1 then to work as an unit.

Have a good day bro

You can’t identify most WvW roamers in PvP. But when they run PU mes or d/p thief and generally aren’t helpful to the team, it stigmatizes the label.

Much of what I see from WvW roamers in soloq is WvW hammer tank builds that just make me LOL.

Thats the company you keep, like it or not.

Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread: knowing how to “play” properly downed state when in a 2vs2 (or more).

I saw a lot of good WvW roaming type players failing in playing the downed state, for example when you’re in a 2vs2 on a point and the teammate + one of the enemy is down – most of the times the result is that the teammate is killed and the enemy is rallied. They lack the knowledge when to stomp the enemy instead of rezzing the teammate (or viceversa), based on classes downed/still up, the hp of the enemy still up etc.

And this is another thing that makes a huge difference between helping your team or letting them down.

Jackums.3496:

Because WvW allows you to attain ridiculously high stats to potentially compensate for a lack of skill, whereas PvP has much lower cap on the offense/defense you can attain.

But the people you’re fighting have inflated stats too, so I dont see this as a good argument

Cam Ron.4170:

Jackums.3496:

Because WvW allows you to attain ridiculously high stats to potentially compensate for a lack of skill, whereas PvP has much lower cap on the offense/defense you can attain.

But the people you’re fighting have inflated stats too, so I dont see this as a good argument

Thats the thing though…not everyone has inflated stats.

Having gone from being a roamer myself to playing sPvP, i recognize a lot of mistakes, but i think the worst crime you do in the early beginning is blaming stuff on random cheese instead of actually looking at your own play.

Took me a while to spot all the smaller mistakes (i knew my rotations sucked from the get go, so that i worked on since i started playing PvP). But all those little things. When to engage, or more importantly, when to fold and GTFO to safety… learning these things matters hugely, as there is a timer before you return, and those 15 seconds can change the game beyond what you can recover from.

Galandil.9641:

Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread: knowing how to “play” properly downed state when in a 2vs2 (or more).

I saw a lot of good WvW roaming type players failing in playing the downed state, for example when you’re in a 2vs2 on a point and the teammate + one of the enemy is down – most of the times the result is that the teammate is killed and the enemy is rallied. They lack the knowledge when to stomp the enemy instead of rezzing the teammate (or viceversa), based on classes downed/still up, the hp of the enemy still up etc.

And this is another thing that makes a huge difference between helping your team or letting them down.

In the short amount of time I have played spvp again, i already met a couple of players that only spvp for months yet they still do what you stated here. This is not isolated only to wvw roamers but also to spvpers both beginners and veterans. Various players have different reactions. Some even panic when going on 1v1 or in outnumbered fights. There are others that indeed don’t pay attention to details.

I should have probably stated that the skills you acquire through both solo and group roaming in wvw transfer over to spvp with minor changes. In wvw your smaller group can win against much larger groups due to the communication, support and skill of each player. In spvp it is also possible against bad opponents. In spvp it all comes down to conquesting the points but most of the analogy as an very experienced solo and group roamer is implemented. In spvp you can duel and sharpen your individual skills as well so once again the changes are very minor if you have excelled on both settings.

I just don’t understand why wvw roamers should be stereotyped by players that
1) Haven’t spent enough time or never played in wvw in the first place as a solo/group roamer

2) Failed within wvw yet are successful in spvp.

I’ve seen love and hate from both sides. Ultimately one influences the other no matter how you slice it up.

When I lose to a dragon finisher in WvW I don’t have any shame. The player is clearly experienced with duels and stuff from his SPvP experience. When I’m in spvp and lose to a level 20, I don’t usually have any shame either. Mostly because I can tell the player is experienced and assume they roam in WvW.

LightningBlaze.4913:

2) Failed within wvw yet are successful in spvp.

How is that even possible? I have never heard of, seen or witnessed someone exclaiming this is even possible…..until now?

The grumpy players of gw2, they play everyday and are negative.
They’re not mad at you but them selfs for still playing like its a 9-5 paying job.

Watch a spvp only streamer attempt wvw the first thing they say “I’m lagging”. If you can’t do both wvw and spvp you limit your self. What kind of person places limits in a virtual world.

Limits and setting bars of good and bad are for basics

It can be annoying seeing people run PU (pointless), or GS warriors that use it just to run around the map for 10 minutes and not accomplish anything.

They just have this mentality that “to not die” means “winning”. Their non team oriented builds that offer no utility and zero point control are just too selfish to be respected.

I use “they” loosely because not all people that come from wvw are bad, but the bad ones are easy to spot and it’s easy to tell where their play-style came from.

It’s the scrub mentality, where people want to come into a game mode that has a preset rule-set and play their own mini-game. Then when the match is lost they act like it had nothing to do with them because they “did not die”.

This is all true when your assigned team plays this way, with a team effort.

None of it is all that relevant when your team is all zerging around ignoring holding objectives and skirmishing in a corner somewhere. Because in these cases, it is VERY disappointing to try playing teamwork.

If a WvW roamer comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well. I had to do all that and more when making the transition and honestly I feel like I still have a lot of room for improvement. It can also be tremendously helpful to try to find a mentor. #thankshiba

If WvW players aren’t willing to do the work to make the transition then they’re going to struggle just like anyone else. Being able to win fights is only one part of the game in sPvP.

Israel.7056:

If a WvW roamer comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.

I can say more: If a PvE player comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.
xD

Prysin.8542:

Having gone from being a roamer myself to playing sPvP, i recognize a lot of mistakes, but i think the worst crime you do in the early beginning is blaming stuff on random cheese instead of actually looking at your own play.

Took me a while to spot all the smaller mistakes (i knew my rotations sucked from the get go, so that i worked on since i started playing PvP). But all those little things. When to engage, or more importantly, when to fold and GTFO to safety… learning these things matters hugely, as there is a timer before you return, and those 15 seconds can change the game beyond what you can recover from.

well said…too bad most of those coming from wvsw just don’t give a kitten bout learning how to play, +1 to you for learning from your mistakes…i assure you’ll be immensely better in wvsw too if you come back now to roaming after playing tpvp

Anton.1769:

Israel.7056:

If a WvW roamer comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.

I can say more: If a PvE player comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.
xD

You can’t “learn” what to do in tpvp, every match is different…you need to “learn” how to adapt to a specific match…and that is not something you can just read around and you’ll be ready to go, it’s called experience and you can only get that after playing a ton of games looking at both your and team’s mistakes, why did we lose the opening midfight? Maybe we should leave a necro on close if they send engi crossing? Is it better to open with 2 ppl close to secure it from stealth cross first, taking some risks on mid if they stealth open with 4 there or just 1-4 and backupping close if needed? Do you trust your close point defender enough to leave him 1v1 being sure he’s not gonna die ending up with 2 caps for them? You need to learn how to answer questions like those, every match, in a couple of seconds according to how the enemy team is moving…if they cross with 2 ppl…are you gonna stay or just disengage going for the other two points? Is their thief in teamfight and you can leave close or he’s nowhere to be seen and you are maybe gonna be decapped as soon as you step out of point?

It’s not just like reading a book a learning things…it’s way more than that.

(Playing side point defender since this game got out)

Ostricheggs.3742:

Case A: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016677

WvWers are prone to “over-rotating”

Case B: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016572

WvWers are prone to getting 1vX’d because they PvDoor too much.

I guess I should add a real answer instead of a troll answer to the OP’s question.

I’ve roamed my fair share in WvW (I’m rank 250+ in wvw from only roaming) and I have to say that the general quality of players in WvW vs Tourneys is shockingly different. There’s something about being stuck in combat for a full game vs the same players with an actual impetus to fight one another (or lose the game, not for your server but yourself) that seems to put the heat under your feet. It’s that 10 minutes of close combat that, in my opinion, makes the difference in player capabilities vs WvW. In WvW you won’t find nearly as many fair fights, let alone fair fights with totally even gear time and time and time again. Even roamers will often find themselves without a decently challenging fight for over 20 minutes. It’ll either be “these guys are too bad” or “there are way too many terrible players” or “holy kitten this build is a total hard-counter to mine, oh wait he has 4 more dudes around the corner”.

It becomes even worse when gear and balance in WvW is factored in. The gear differences via simple stat inflation make some builds just insanely ridiculous. Balance patches seem to have just totally ignored WvW. Who knew that with a few extra and diversified stats, some OP PvE sigils and the old selfless daring from 2 years ago would make DPS guardians OP (at least compared to their uselessness in PvP ATM)

I’ve seen quality players able to react and play very well in WvW, of course! But I’ve also seen those same players in PvP and it’s not very pretty…

If you wanna come on down to tourneys and have a go at it I won’t give you kitten for it, nor am I supporting those who do because that’s just stupid. Heck, even if you screw up I won’t kitten at you (too much :P). Just don’t pretend like this is WvW and run a shadow arts thief with D/D and never learn how to rotate.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Case A: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016677

WvWers are prone to “over-rotating”

Case B: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016572

WvWers are prone to getting 1vX’d because they PvDoor too much.

I guess I should add a real answer instead of a troll answer to the OP’s question.

I’ve roamed my fair share in WvW (I’m rank 250+ in wvw from only roaming) and I have to say that the general quality of players in WvW vs Tourneys is shockingly different. There’s something about being stuck in combat for a full game vs the same players with an actual impetus to fight one another (or lose the game, not for your server but yourself) that seems to put the heat under your feet. It’s that 10 minutes of close combat that, in my opinion, makes the difference in player capabilities vs WvW. In WvW you won’t find nearly as many fair fights, let alone fair fights with totally even gear time and time and time again. Even roamers will often find themselves without a decently challenging fight for over 20 minutes. It’ll either be “these guys are too bad” or “there are way too many terrible players” or “holy kitten this build is a total hard-counter to mine, oh wait he has 4 more dudes around the corner”.

It becomes even worse when gear and balance in WvW is factored in. The gear differences via simple stat inflation make some builds just insanely ridiculous. Balance patches seem to have just totally ignored WvW. Who knew that with a few extra and diversified stats, some OP PvE sigils and the old selfless daring from 2 years ago would make DPS guardians OP (at least compared to their uselessness in PvP ATM)

I’ve seen quality players able to react and play very well in WvW, of course! But I’ve also seen those same players in PvP and it’s not very pretty…

If you wanna come on down to tourneys and have a go at it I won’t give you kitten for it, nor am I supporting those who do because that’s just stupid. Heck, even if you screw up I won’t kitten at you (too much :P). Just don’t pretend like this is WvW and run a shadow arts thief with D/D and never learn how to rotate.

+1

Archaon.9524:

You can’t “learn” what to do in tpvp, every match is different…you need to “learn” how to adapt to a specific match…and that is not something you can just read around and you’ll be ready to go, it’s called experience and you can only get that after playing a ton of games looking at both your and team’s mistakes, why did we lose the opening midfight? Maybe we should leave a necro on close if they send engi crossing? Is it better to open with 2 ppl close to secure it from stealth cross first, taking some risks on mid if they stealth open with 4 there or just 1-4 and backupping close if needed? Do you trust your close point defender enough to leave him 1v1 being sure he’s not gonna die ending up with 2 caps for them? You need to learn how to answer questions like those, every match, in a couple of seconds according to how the enemy team is moving…if they cross with 2 ppl…are you gonna stay or just disengage going for the other two points? Is their thief in teamfight and you can leave close or he’s nowhere to be seen and you are maybe gonna be decapped as soon as you step out of point?

It’s not just like reading a book a learning things…it’s way more than that.

You don’t think that there are any solid theoretical answers to those questions?

Israel.7056:

Archaon.9524:

You can’t “learn” what to do in tpvp, every match is different…you need to “learn” how to adapt to a specific match…and that is not something you can just read around and you’ll be ready to go, it’s called experience and you can only get that after playing a ton of games looking at both your and team’s mistakes, why did we lose the opening midfight? Maybe we should leave a necro on close if they send engi crossing? Is it better to open with 2 ppl close to secure it from stealth cross first, taking some risks on mid if they stealth open with 4 there or just 1-4 and backupping close if needed? Do you trust your close point defender enough to leave him 1v1 being sure he’s not gonna die ending up with 2 caps for them? You need to learn how to answer questions like those, every match, in a couple of seconds according to how the enemy team is moving…if they cross with 2 ppl…are you gonna stay or just disengage going for the other two points? Is their thief in teamfight and you can leave close or he’s nowhere to be seen and you are maybe gonna be decapped as soon as you step out of point?

It’s not just like reading a book a learning things…it’s way more than that.

You don’t think that there are any solid theoretical answers to those questions?

No there aren’t cause even if you pre-learn how to counter some situations everything could be different anyway….if i see a random engi crossing i usually sit on my point and facetank him 1v1 if i see texbi, for example, crossing (Not a random engi) i’m gonna call for backup already because i already know is gonna be hard and awfully long and that i’m not sure that i would keep my point…so in the same situation with same class with same spec coming at me i’m gonna act really different because i know that is gonna be way different fighting a really good engi than 1v1 with a unknown random one, and you can’t learn stuff like this without playing many matches vs always different ppl..

Anton.1769:

Israel.7056:

If a WvW roamer comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.

I can say more: If a PvE player comes into sPvP and studies the meta, learns the rotations, tailors his build to his desired role, really learns exactly what his role entails etc then there’s no reason why that person can’t do well.
xD

nope. and nobody will ever blame people like that. why even bring it up? the question clearly was: “why do people hate on wvw roamers”, not “why do people hate on people that actually try to play pvp they way it’s intended, no matter where they come from”

oh, i wanted to bring one thing up:
i’ve seen teams in spvp lose because of wvw roamers ignorance on how pvp works, BUT! I’ve also seen dragons in wvw get stomped like ultranoobs, because they ignore the basic principles of wvw roaming, like: get buffed up, use food and so on.

LightningBlaze.4913:

In the short amount of time I have played spvp again, i already met a couple of players that only spvp for months yet they still do what you stated here. This is not isolated only to wvw roamers but also to spvpers both beginners and veterans. Various players have different reactions. Some even panic when going on 1v1 or in outnumbered fights. There are others that indeed don’t pay attention to details.

there is a thing called a bad player.

The short answer is because the skill sets are very different. SPvP is about capping and holding points and roaming is about killing. While killing is a part of SPvP it doesn’t necessarily win games.

The question becomes who are more skilled and it simply cannot be answered. You’ll see roamers come into SPvP and fail just as often as you’ll see a SPvP player come into WvW and complain that a zerg rolled them or that perma stealth thief and PU mesmer are such cheap specs. The skills acquired are simply different. Where SPvP learns to rotate points the Roamers learn to avoid zergs. WvW has more skill variance and stat imbalance to give a well geared roamer the edge, but it has a lot less fair fights(roamers often fight 1v2+). SPvP has the potential for facing more higher skilled people more often though. A lot of this comes down to builds. The better Roaming builds aren’t great for capping/decapping, likewise a lot of SPvP builds are horrible for roaming. If you’re going to talk team fights then of course GvG comes into it, I’d love to see a good SPvP team vs a good GvG team, I’d wager the GvG team would win purely because their specs are based solely on team fights where, again, the SPvP are more capping oriented with team fights in mind.

blablablablabla, wrong thread, please delete blabalbalablablabalbala

Eh…I’ll take someone who has good map awareness, understanding of powerful sPvP builds, and the ability to communicate effectively in a team over someone that’s good at pro at 1 v 1s anyday.

Yea, it’s great when you can win fights, but I wish I had a dollar for every time I saw someone spend half the game winning fights while standing off point and doing very little for helping their team to actually win the game.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Case A: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016677

WvWers are prone to “over-rotating”

Case B: http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/5016572

WvWers are prone to getting 1vX’d because they PvDoor too much.

while most of what is posted in this thread is true, playing a perplexity engineer and 1vX shouldn’t be used as proof for anything.

kitteny wvw players who think they are better than spvp players in small scale fights.

Ryan.9387:

kitteny wvw players who think they are better than spvp players in small scale fights.

Goes the other way too when tpvp players think good small team skills allow them to command map blobs. Seen it happen a lot and most of the times a PvE commander will be better even if that too is a horrible choice.

@ostricheggs
Rank 250 roaming in EotM? Or just rank 250 from drinking potions? Or just rank 250 in lower tiers were 3 roamers rotate around the map endlessly flipping camps.
Iv’e been doing havoc groups and solo roaming from T6 to T1 EU and T4 to T1 NA. 250 should be, depending on when you started and how many chars you’ve got (if you zerged with on char then those levels got added to your total level last patch). So far i got rank 387, approximately 55 ranks from EotM and zerging. Rest is pure roaming. Before borderland bloodlust you could rank up 5 times a day just swimming around the lakes capping quaggan nodes. Rank proves very little in roaming, time and kills is what you use to display roaming prowess.
Mind you, even with 1600 hours and 10000+ kills, i am just a casual roamer compared to the more hardcore ones.

I do both WvW and SPvP, I am rank 620+ from solo/havoc groups and I am on a decent SPvP team. I believe that what many people are saying is correct, WvW players in general are worse then SPvP players (and no not all are bad but most). There is a large difference in SPvP and WvW, believe it or not I still get kitten from people because I had a history of WvW. SPvP players usually have a large ego IMO, which I can name more than 10 but I won’t. Just because you did WvW at one point people will always think that you are less skilled than others, which is fine just show them wrong and play what you want to.