Guild Wars 2

Tuluum.9638:

Dynnen.6405:

If by ‘small scale’ you mean 10-15 of our guys versus 30+ of your guys then yea. Just ask the 30+ group of DH AND IoJ that got smashed at Wildcreek 12 hours ago.

Windmoor; This is exactly what I mean with the psychological warfare. You would get the impression that every loss is nothing more than being outnumbered, and every win is sheer skill. Its a very effective tool, though it has its drawbacks as well. I think that each of the servers in this tier represents a pretty different “culture,” and they all have their drawbacks/strengths, so I do think you will find what you are looking for!

@Dynnen:

Thats not what I meant, obviously. There are plenty of occasions where the situation is that way for each and every server, countless times through every single match. Like I said, apologies if you found offense in what I said. I was just calling it like I see it. We all have plenty of room to grow and improve. Its fine for you to disagree, and I certainly dont mean it in a demeaning or insulting manner.

This isn’t psychological warfare. That would be something like repeatedly knocking back a downed player further away from their lines. Or extending out enemy zergs making them think we are running. Things like that. Theres been a whole lot of passive aggressive kittengery coming from certain people, where as my kind of kittengery comes direct or at the end of my GS/Hammer. Posts on these forums are more about making comments for or against opinions. And have we lost to zergs? Absolutely. Was it to the numbers? Most of the time yes because we routinely pick the terrain to fight in. We have to do this so we can actually compete against these numbers, also from the unnecessary AOE cap. However there are times when we get beat because we are out of position. We pick the ground to fight on, or engage at the right time. Either we lost due to bad positioning or numbers. There are exceptions to this of course. The ECHO squad from E-bay has a lot of really good players in their groups and both them and us have lost to each other due to one or two people performing their roles better at that time. However they typically don’t run in excess of 15. Also during a hills keep fight we fought against IoJ and DH there was an engie that somehow managed to tool kit pull me through the entry doorway room. Was pretty impressed by that.
During our runs the driver (commanding office, guy in charge, all knowing merciless god, Tzar) is constantly moving the group into and out of various areas to maximize the terrains advantage. Moving into cover and repositioning, flanking, two-pronged attacks, making a cordon with reflect walls, strong initiates, and various other things are what the driver is primarily concerned about while everyone else’s job is to do perform their roles as best they can, provide information to the driver, and have fun.

Its also kinda funny that in the same post you would passive aggressively insult us, then apologize profusely. But, back to your 1v1 comment. The smallest groups that our server has to offer is OINK, 5 dudes fighting their kitten off. I can’t specifically think of anyone that roams around by themselves in any wvw maps constantly looking for 1v1 fights. So the comment was more geared towards that fact that there is hardly anyone that only looks for 1v1 fights out there.

@Dynnen;

Your definitions of psychological warfare are a bit more limited than mine. I actually thought it was intentional and was applauding you on it. :\ So.. I guess I take it back?

And to clarify, I use 1v1 and 1:1 interchangeably. Ill be more specific in the future.

As for the strategies you use.. Utilizing positioning, etc. is all very important to PvP. I dont disagree that its effective. Other than that, I am not sure what your point is, would you mind clarifying?

See ya on the battlefield.

Tuluum.9638:

Creepy Silent.9801:

I was at school at that time so I don’t know. We do get a lot of pugs that follow us, I don’t really mind pugs but sometimes they can be food for rallies which throws you off in the middle of a fight.

Gotcha. 90% were sporting the guild tags, but I didnt know how open your guilds are to membership.

Most of the time when we get too many followers we just WP randomly to lose them, its no offense to them, we just like to keep our group coordinated and move as move normally.

Creepy Silent.9801:

Tuluum.9638:

Creepy Silent.9801:

I was at school at that time so I don’t know. We do get a lot of pugs that follow us, I don’t really mind pugs but sometimes they can be food for rallies which throws you off in the middle of a fight.

Gotcha. 90% were sporting the guild tags, but I didnt know how open your guilds are to membership.

Most of the time when we get too many followers we just WP randomly to lose them, its no offense to them, we just like to keep our group coordinated and move as move normally.

Guilds on our server have done the same thing. Effective for its purpose, isnt it? Though frequently, I am one of those told to scram. Ah well, haha. I see less of this as time goes on, but I think that is just the evolving culture of our server specifically.

I was just curious who was running in that group at Umber.

@Tuluum
I think you’re pretty spot on. I’ve noticed that skill/tactics varies widely ( the same in any pvp type game I’ve ever played, starting with many years of dedicated DAOC rvr. ) The only special squads I know of on DR is the ADQQTSY peeps, and I hardly ever hear anything from them ( although I do make fun of them in map chat on occasion, )

And yes, DR can field large numbers at certain points of the day, same as DH & IOJ can. Since I’ve only been hanging out in EB this week, all I’ve seen from DH is a few solo roamers, lots of 20+ groups, and an occasional 3-5 man taking camps and such. Not many IOJ come out to the DR back 1/3 of the map, where I am running supplies, upgrades, ect…

And a special shout out to the DH warrior outside DR keep yesterday, who was kind enough to do some 1v1 on my ele so I could look at a few builds to find a counter to them on my main. HUGE thanks. I often test certain builds of classes to see what damage/tactics work best aginst it.

And to all… Play ON!

Partipack – DR engineer

Partunu.9845:

@Tuluum
I think you’re pretty spot on. I’ve noticed that skill/tactics varies widely ( the same in any pvp type game I’ve ever played, starting with many years of dedicated DAOC rvr. ) The only special squads I know of on DR is the ADQQTSY peeps, and I hardly ever hear anything from them ( although I do make fun of them in map chat on occasion, )

And yes, DR can field large numbers at certain points of the day, same as DH & IOJ can. Since I’ve only been hanging out in EB this week, all I’ve seen from DH is a few solo roamers, lots of 20+ groups, and an occasional 3-5 man taking camps and such. Not many IOJ come out to the DR back 1/3 of the map, where I am running supplies, upgrades, ect…

And a special shout out to the DH warrior outside DR keep yesterday, who was kind enough to do some 1v1 on my ele so I could look at a few builds to find a counter to them on my main. HUGE thanks. I often test certain builds of classes to see what damage/tactics work best aginst it.

And to all… Play ON!

Partipack – DR engineer

I really tried to be as fair in my assessment as possible. I knew some would still take offense. I get impressed when I see something unexpected, I didnt mean anything particularly bad by it. I expect there to be pretty much exactly what you said. Some solo roamers, some small groups, and large zergs.

Anywho.. If you ever want to test stuff out, I am up to help ya out too. I am not a huge fan of fight clubs, but I am all for doing my best to help anyone and everyone. I find that I improve through this process as well! I mostly use a ranger with a mostly tanky build, so it could be good to test burst against as well as sustained damage. I generally run Pigs as pets, but for now, their f2 ability seems mostly broken. Any time you want to do some testing, let me know. I would even be willing to run specific builds you want to test against, etc. I wont buy new gear or anything, but wouldnt hesitate to change traits around and all that.

Anywho.. If you ever want to test stuff out, I am up to help ya out too. I am not a huge fan of fight clubs, but I am all for doing my best to help anyone and everyone. I find that I improve through this process as well! I mostly use a ranger with a mostly tanky build, so it could be good to test burst against as well as sustained damage. I generally run Pigs as pets, but for now, their f2 ability seems mostly broken. Any time you want to do some testing, let me know. I would even be willing to run specific builds you want to test against, etc. I wont buy new gear or anything, but wouldnt hesitate to change traits around and all that.My only request is that I get to test out some techniques as well! I tried with the UnS guild from IoJ, but its pretty hard to test different things out when its 8v1, and they have no idea what Im doing! :P

Anywho.. If you ever want to test stuff out, I am up to help ya out too. I am not a huge fan of fight clubs, but I am all for doing my best to help anyone and everyone. I find that I improve through this process as well! I mostly use a ranger with a mostly tanky build, so it could be good to test burst against as well as sustained damage. I generally run Pigs as pets, but for now, their f2 ability seems mostly broken. Any time you want to do some testing, let me know. I would even be willing to run specific builds you want to test against, etc. I wont buy new gear or anything, but wouldnt hesitate to change traits around and all that.My only request is that I get to test out some techniques as well! I tried with the UnS guild from IoJ, but its pretty hard to test different things out when its 8v1, and they have no idea what Im doing! :Pedit: And if you have a necro, I would love that! I deal most of my damage through constant conditions, and obviously struggle against necros. Would love to improve my game in that regard.

Good ol buggy forums XD

@Tuluum

Appreciate the offer. I very rarely hop on any other class, except my necro, to play. And I wouldn’t worry about offending anyone by stating an opinion, which seemed fair in and of itself. If they have thin skin.. they should should get better armor And I don’t do fight club either. I am spec’d for group support/survival ( read tanky’ish w/ a dash of omgwtfbbq sauce. )

Partipack – DR engineer

@Dynnen;

I also wanted to comment about the AoE cap. I cant wait for this to be removed (if it ever is). I still think its strange that the best way to approach an AoE attack is to all stack in one place. It seems so counter-intuitive.

Contrary to what many people say though, I dont think it would discourage zerging since the removal applies to them as well. If the AoE cap was removed, it would allow the the zerg to output the entirety of their damage against a group of 15. Since this limit will obviously be much, much higher than what the small group could hope to achieve.

That said, it would begin to highlight skill and coordination alongside numbers, which is something we both probably agree would be a good thing. Numbers would still have an advantage, but there wouldnt be an artificial cap on skill anymore. I would love to see this happen.

Partunu.9845:

@Tuluum

Appreciate the offer. I very rarely hop on any other class, except my necro, to play. And I wouldn’t worry about offending anyone by stating an opinion, which seemed fair in and of itself. If they have thin skin.. they should should get better armor And I don’t do fight club either. I am spec’d for group support/survival ( read tanky’ish w/ a dash of omgwtfbbq sauce. )

Partipack – DR engineer

Sounds like we both have the same goals when building characters. If I cant support my group, I become less useful. But, if I am able to be focus fired down too quickly, then I cant support my team (being dead and all). I also like builds that are mostly adaptable and can go from a 1v1 to a zerg vs zerg and still be useful and effective. I usually come to my “final” builds after hours and hours of theorycrafting. Boring for most, maybe, but an obsessive fun for me.

Well see if we can meet up randomly on the battlefield. I find that much more fun than pre-arranged meetings, even if its for testing! I play most days, but not every day (wont be on today).

I asked Gab earlier, but got no answer; can we still message people from other servers when outside of a party? I thought they disabled it, as I havent been able to contact some of my friends on TC.

Tuluum.9638:

Contrary to what many people say though, I dont think it would discourage zerging since the removal applies to them as well.

Consider a 5v10. The side with ten players has incoming AoE damage mitigated by the AoE cap. The side with 5 takes full damage from incoming AoE.

Now lift the cap to 10 players hit by AoE. Now, the side with ten doesn’t have incoming AoE damage mitigated and takes full damage. The side with 5 takes the same damage as they were before.

The AoE cap will always favor the side with more people stacked up on top of each other since the AoE damage will be more spread out and thus mitigated.

People would still zerg, though. They would just have one of their advantages removed somewhat.

Oozo.7856:

Tuluum.9638:

Contrary to what many people say though, I dont think it would discourage zerging since the removal applies to them as well.

Consider a 5v10. The side with ten players has incoming AoE damage mitigated by the AoE cap. The side with 5 takes full damage from incoming AoE.

Now lift the cap to 10 players hit by AoE. Now, the side with ten doesn’t have incoming AoE damage mitigated and takes full damage. The side with 5 takes the same damage as they were before.

The AoE cap will always favor the side with more people stacked up on top of each other since the AoE damage will be more spread out and thus mitigated.

People would still zerg, though. They would just have one of their advantages removed somewhat.

Yup.

As I said:

“it would begin to highlight skill and coordination alongside numbers, which is something we both probably agree would be a good thing. Numbers would still have an advantage, but there wouldnt be an artificial cap on skill anymore.”

DR has fought IoJ quite often recently. We’ve pretty much run across everyone on their server. I haven’t seen UnS at all this matchup (except for one guy running solo) but we have fought them group versus group in the open field in a previous matchup. However, only once to my knowledge. They tend to stay in EB while we tend to stay in the borderlands to avoid EB’s zerginess (including our friendly DR zergs). If you are a DR player and haven’t ever seen us it’s likely because you are a zergsurfer and we intentionally avoid you.

edit: You aren’t going to run across every roaming guild in an equal number situation in a one week matchup. Sometimes it can go 3 weeks before you actually run across a known roaming group from an enemy server in an isolated fight.

Some guilds prefer or are assigned to certain borderlands or EB. If people stick to their patterns they might never run across each other. Thus, it’s generally not a smart thing to say that everyone from X server sucks because you probably have not run across everyone and even when you do they might not be running at full strength (playing alts, running low on numbers, missing key classes for synergy).

All you can do is report on what your personal experiences have been. Extrapolating from those personal experiences is not a good idea.

Oozo.7856:

All you can do is report on what your personal experiences have been. Extrapolating from those personal experiences is not a good idea.

Oozman is earsiest of wiseman.

@Oozo;

By and large, most consider their perspective of reality is the all-encompassing truth and even go so far as to apply this as a hard rule against the words of others. Most will never, at any point, contemplate an alternative much less walk a few steps in that direction of understanding. We are all inherently limited as parts of the same system. Makes for a lot of room to grow and learn if we are willing.

Somewhere along the line we lost the concept that we all view the same universe through different eyes.

Tuluum.9638:

@Oozo;

By and large, most consider their perspective of reality is the all-encompassing truth and even go so far as to apply this as a hard rule against the words of others. Most will never, at any point, contemplate an alternative much less walk a few steps in that direction of understanding. We are all inherently limited as parts of the same system. Makes for a lot of room to grow and learn if we are willing.

Somewhere along the line we lost the concept that we all view the same universe through different eyes.

My eyes view your universe as a big pretentious kitten.

dreztina.4820:

Tuluum.9638:

@Oozo;

By and large, most consider their perspective of reality is the all-encompassing truth and even go so far as to apply this as a hard rule against the words of others. Most will never, at any point, contemplate an alternative much less walk a few steps in that direction of understanding. We are all inherently limited as parts of the same system. Makes for a lot of room to grow and learn if we are willing.

Somewhere along the line we lost the concept that we all view the same universe through different eyes.

My eyes view your universe as a big pretentious kitten.

Thats fine, your opinion isnt up to me anyway.

Though I have never known kittens to be pretentious or big. :P

Props to that DH male human warrior with hammer + longbow with human tier 3 helm (can’t remember guild tag, I almost never look at those). The next DH on my hit list is a male human ele with long white hair (can’t remember guild tag). Annoying beyond belief, but fun to fight
And the male norn warrior with greatsword that likes dueling (has Vigil helm), runs around SM a lot :P.

And just to add… I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t consider DR a 1 vs 1 at all O_o. Most people stick to groups (no one even talks about 1 vs 1s… ?).
One thing I’d love to see from our server is more defensive siege… We always cap things and leave it bare naked. A lot of the time the only siege we have is the siege I build, and I’m one person -_- Or that little asura (won’t say his name just in case x)), he sometimes builds too. I think we’d be a lot stronger if we more defensive siege, as soon as we cap something, have some people designated to siege it up.
But anyway….

(Edit: I’m talking only about Eternal Battlegrounds, not any other borderland)

-Human warrior with a flaming sword and bow

Tuluum.9638:

@Dynnen;

Your definitions of psychological warfare are a bit more limited than mine. I actually thought it was intentional and was applauding you on it. :\ So.. I guess I take it back?

And to clarify, I use 1v1 and 1:1 interchangeably. Ill be more specific in the future.

As for the strategies you use.. Utilizing positioning, etc. is all very important to PvP. I dont disagree that its effective. Other than that, I am not sure what your point is, would you mind clarifying?

See ya on the battlefield.

1) I was trying to say that we are not trying to get into your heads and what we do that might drift into the edges of what most people would call ‘psy-ops’ would be giving the enemy a false sense of security in our movements. If I was going to be doing psy-ops against your server I would get in your server’s VOIP and being a large HUMINT/SIGINT operation against your server. But thats a lot of work and its easier just to hit things.
2) I was trying to show that we do get beat and what usually leads to us getting beat. I was also trying to show how much work we put into getting the right positioning initiating combat.
3) I was making a passive aggressive comment about your passive aggressive comment, IE making statements that can be interpreted a certain way but also give you a way to fall back feigning innocence or ignorance.
4) The last statement was poorly worded, my son woke up from his nap and was distracted. The point I was trying to make is that I don’t know very many people that 1v1, and the smallest group of people that I’ve seen out there consistantly is OINK and they run 3-5 man. The comment you made later about 1v1 and 1:1 being interchangeable makes sense, but we don’t go looking for pitched battles. We exploit every piece of terrain/map knowledge that we can to get whatever advantages are available. Also saying that we like to go out and fight is kind of a moot point. Of course we like to go out and fight, its how our 10-15 people can contribute the best. Slowing down enemy resupply/reinforcement avenues, stopping enemy zergs that are attacking defense points, or flanking a DH zerg that just broke down an IoJ door then taking the defense point for ourselves. I wouldn’t say our priority is points, but we do try to contribute when we can.

Unfortunately I can’t TLDR this, since its kind of a TLDR for a previous post =(

@Dynnen;

I understood you on the psychological warfare thing. Like I said, I was complimenting you but you clarified that it wasnt intentional, so there really isnt anything to compliment. It can be done on the forums to both encourage your side and discourage the other side. There are numerous ways to do this.

What you said about general tactics are things that every coordinated group/guild uses in a PvP game. I dont see them as exclusive to GW2, but universal to all games which have PvP and it even mostly applies to PvE. Certain specifics may change, but the overall concepts stay the same. Thats why I asked why you were going into it, I couldnt (and still dont) quite understand what you were trying to get across.

I also guess I misunderstood that you guys prefer small scale battles, where numbers and skill are generally equal (1:1). Never said you specifically look for pre-arranged battles and even suggested that you try it out through organized GvG earlier in the thread to scratch that specific itch. The mechanics in WvW dont really encourage the emergence of that style of play as much as other engagements.

Probably just best to chalk it up to differences of opinion, or something, and agree to disagree.

edited for as much clarity as I can muster.