Guild Wars 2

Israel.7056:

Zen.8497:

Actually there is a big difference, competitive professional sports while entertaining for the viewers it is a business for the people involved in it. They spend real money from profits to bring in even more money. This is just a game and some players choose to spend real money for the bragging rights only.

The transfer cost is in gems not in any real world currency. It’s possible to buy gems with in-game gold. There are a lot of very rich people in this game at this point. Therefore it’s not necessarily the case that players would be spending real money to purchase transfers for themselves or others. When I transferred back to BG from Maguuma it cost me 1800 gems. Outside of holidays and special events and whatnot that’s usually something like 30 gold and 30 gold isn’t that much money at this point in the game. It seems entirely plausible that entire guilds could’ve been paid for with nothing more than in-game gold.

But as to whether there is a difference between the morality in the business realm versus the recreational realm, I suppose it’s a matter of opinion. To me all I see is that people will expend resources to be successful at whatever venture they’re currently engaged in. I personally find no fault with people paying guilds to transfer to their server.

Let’s put an end to this non sense. It will take a while but it’s possible for a player to make in game gold to transfer to another server. Transferring guilds over short notice it is a complete different story because somebody needs to cover aside of guild upgrades alot of people that are not even ready.

Blade.9317:

Why is it that every time Blackgate makes it to T1 we are the victims of a baseless smear campaign of some sort? Ok, we get it, we are Blackgate, we all wear black hats and we all are villains. Now lets dispense with all this pointless nonsense and get out there and have some fun.

We’ve been called “Hackgate” in the past and now “Stackgate”. We can play the bad villian role that is fine after all the good girls of TC sure loved the bad boys of BG just as much as we loved them with all the cookies and yak steaks.

Anyways BG has been knocked down numerous times and each time we clawed our way back to T1 even before the transfers. Our core is strong and if people abandon us later so be it as all great things do come to an end and we will still be competitors regardless.

To JQ and SoR so far great fights from both sides. Besides a few negative apples in this thread I am loving the competition and the unity of Blackgate. The strange thing is ever since T1 i haven’t encountered a queue in LA for some reason. o.O

Many people believe they upped the max population allowed in LA before it starts an overflow which would explain it.

You realize its pretty easy to make 30 gold in less than a day? Its a pain in the butt, you need 4 other committed people, but its not hard, just a grind.

(Let me be very clear on this next section. Its in reference to a previous BG member, not anything else)

As for Blackgate not deserving to be in tier 1. BG is the only server that has fallen out of Tier 1 and not free falled into obscurity. And we did it twice! We never lost more than a single placement in the rankings and that was during free transfers. Were we ready to be first place Tier 1? No, but we fought for our placement, and earned that placement. When we couldn’t hold it, we dropped back, re-organized, re-armed, shed some of our dead weight and charged right back into Tier 1 again. This is our third run in Tier 1, when no other servers have had a second run.

So, now, we don’t just have the couple of guilds from SoS with Tier 1 experience. We have our entire server with Tier 1 experience. Many of us know that the war isn’t won in the first weekend, or even in the first week. JQ has shown its possible (even before the mass transfers) for one server to maintain a presence in Tier 1 in the long run. I think BG means to follow their example.

Oh and beat them if we can :P

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

Good fight PRX in SoR northern supply camp.

was a fun skirmish

JaredKincade.9761:

You realize its pretty easy to make 30 gold in less than a day? Its a pain in the butt, you need 4 other committed people, but its not hard, just a grind.

(Let me be very clear on this next section. Its in reference to a previous BG member, not anything else)

As for Blackgate not deserving to be in tier 1. BG is the only server that has fallen out of Tier 1 and not free falled into obscurity. And we did it twice! We never lost more than a single placement in the rankings and that was during free transfers. Were we ready to be first place Tier 1? No, but we fought for our placement, and earned that placement. When we couldn’t hold it, we dropped back, re-organized, re-armed, shed some of our dead weight and charged right back into Tier 1 again. This is our third run in Tier 1, when no other servers have had a second run.

So, now, we don’t just have the couple of guilds from SoS with Tier 1 experience. We have our entire server with Tier 1 experience. Many of us know that the war isn’t won in the first weekend, or even in the first week. JQ has shown its possible (even before the mass transfers) for one server to maintain a presence in Tier 1 in the long run. I think BG means to follow their example.

Oh and beat them if we can :P

Very well said! Fight for every inch, tooth and nail.

“You realize its pretty easy to make 30 gold in less than a day? Its a pain in the butt, you need 4 other committed people, but its not hard, just a grind.”

You realize that we talking about several guilds with +500 people that would be roughly 2000 commited players per guild helping with the transfers. I guess if you want to believe that.

Score update would be nice

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

Resonance.4216:

Here you go superchamp, take a look at that. I’m betting you’re one of the dead ones.

Also if you could count how many kills I got, that’d be nice, i started recording just after we wiped 25+ JQ on that bridge, so add 25 to whatever number you come up with.

I am not even going to explain to you why that video is comical in light of your comment.

no no, you asked me what my K/D ratio is, I didn’t die once in that, and the bits that were removed were us running between fight points.

AM I SKILLED ENOUGH, MASTER ROSHI? PLEASE TELL ME, GREAT SENSEI.

Ok, so about your video. Even though I think you were being highly sarcastic and rude to me, I am going to do my best to help you with a few things. Hopefully you won’t get too upset and see that I am trying to help you become a better elementalist.

Here is my sensei advice:

1. Rebind 6-10 if you need to, because clicking with your mouse is grossly inefficient. If you follow what I said in an early post, this will also keep you from mouse turning so much as it too is horribly inefficient.

2. Try switching attunements more often and utilizing other abilities. From what I can tell from the video, you are severely handicapping your effectiveness. Spamming earth 1 for example is horribly inefficient in all circumstances across the board.

3. Looks like you need to calm down a bit too in fights. I quite literally saw you spam 2,3,4,5 all at once several times. The time that prompted me to make note of it, you spammed ice spike, ice field, and both heal fields at the same time. 4 distinctly different abilities that need to be used with a little more care.

4. You can switch attunement with the FGS out. Not only that, you should for the attunement switching buffs/abilities providing you are traited for them of course. One example, depending on how you are traited, you can heal when you switch to water, and then dodge roll for another condition removal/heal.

5. You are using a very inefficient heal slot ability for someone using staff. Trying using http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal . The cool down + condition removal + the fact that you prefer to play ranged with staff make it a no brainer.

6. Firing and moving. More time than I can count in the video you aren’t hitting people, CCing, or doing anything while moving. The vast majority of your abilities while using staff can be used on the move. You are drastically cutting down your effectiveness when you don’t do this.

7. Condition removal. Ele’s are one of the best classes in the game for removing them when specced and traited correctly. It pained me to see you get slowly downed by a single burn with a cantrip up. Take a look at slotting regen on cantrip and condition removal on regen……

8. Food food food and oil. You need to start using them. Everyone you are fighting is going to have an advantage over you and the food is not the expensive compared to what you can make in W3 now.

9. Earth 5. You know how that works right? Why were you firing it off with nobody in front of you?

10. I don’t believe I saw you use the single most powerful ability a staff ele has even one time……

Lastly, please don’t post a video beating up on GSCH. They are good people and should absolutely be off the target list of any chest thumpers.

Score update! I forgot to include the PPTs…but Blackgate is sitting around +380. JQ and SoR have been flip-flopping for 2nd and 3rd.

We had all of JQBL Red about a half hour ago. I was glad to see SoR fielding a reasonable sized force this morning, it made fights much much more interesting. Here’s hoping you guys pull more coverage!

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

with the current forces kaineng have, we are not yet ready for T1… honestly…

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

Start winning fights before you make a comment like that.

joocheese.6314:

Art.9820:

now I’m 100% convinced that some SoR posters are blinded by their self-righteousness lol

Then either you completely misunderstand us or we are failing to accurately convey our gaming philosophy. We are obviously on opposite ends of the gaming spectrum.

Some will do anything to win, others have more of a philosophy which guides what they are willing and not willing to do to win; in some cases winning is not even the ultimate goal. It is not so much a matter of right or wrong, high or low, but of taste, gaming philosophy and style.

We are not better or holier, but just different than you. We care more about how we win than just just winning by any means necessary. Hopefully that explains who we are a bit better and clearer.

Cheers!

After reading some of your posts I see you generalize too much :P; you can call it philosophy if you want, but feeling better than others is where I go, just read last week topic or this one, I’m not insulting just pointing out that SOME SoR posters are blinded by their self-righteousness, and no I’m not talking about covenn don’t worry about that, I totally understand BG or JQ chest-thump but some SoR posters defend and chest-thump with a weird and fanciful fairplay argument taking it to a higher and personal level lol

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

I don’t think you have the proper NA to compete in tier 1. WM is a great guild, but I don’t think they will be able to carry your NA deficiencies.

Burl.9567:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

I don’t think you have the proper NA to compete in tier 1. WM is a great guild, but I don’t think they will be able to carry your NA deficiencies.

I think the guy you’re quoting is BG, not Kaineng

tkalamba.2541:

Burl.9567:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

I don’t think you have the proper NA to compete in tier 1. WM is a great guild, but I don’t think they will be able to carry your NA deficiencies.

I think the guy you’re quoting is BG, not Kaineng

I suck at reading comprehension….

Welcome OCX to SoR! We are glad to have you with us!

Burl.9567:

tkalamba.2541:

Burl.9567:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

edit: spelling

I don’t think you have the proper NA to compete in tier 1. WM is a great guild, but I don’t think they will be able to carry your NA deficiencies.

I think the guy you’re quoting is BG, not Kaineng

I suck at reading comprehension….

Haha no worries

For being the “uber stacked” server, we certainly lost many points overnight (NA time). I logged off last night with a couple thousand point lead at least…logged in this morning to almost 10k.

But I guess maybe when we lose our lead overnight it’s because we lack skillz. That’s probably right.

Edit: I’m just messing around btw. I wasn’t on at all this weekend until yesterday, but there were some fun fights on BGBL last night. Definitely more fun this week than last week.

drwookie.6391:

But I guess maybe when we lose our lead overnight it’s because we lack skillz. That’s probably right.

SoR has been getting told this very same thing for quite a long time.

drwookie.6391:

Definitely more fun this week than last week.

Yeah for sure, it is nice to have BG back to fight. I hate what happened to SoS, but the two sided fighting last week was getting tiresome.

Zen.8497:

Let’s put an end to this non sense. It will take a while but it’s possible for a player to make in game gold to transfer to another server. Transferring guilds over short notice it is a complete different story because somebody needs to cover aside of guild upgrades alot of people that are not even ready.

It doesn’t take that long to make that amount of gold in this game.

I almost always have about 30 gold sitting just from doing WvW and selling and salvaging drops and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

How much time is “short notice?” How long were these guilds contemplating transferring?

Well e.-p.een is great and all, but it’s fine with me if we lose every battle to win the match… I don’t value glory as much as I do justice and there are more deserving servers that will take your place.

I would rather excel others in the knowledge of what is excellent than in the extent of my powers and dominion. – Alexander the Great

Grats Joocheese!

Saphaire Everburn – FoE – Blackgate

covenn.7165:

GekoHayate.2451:

covenn.7165:

Israel.7056:

covenn.7165:

How many people did you kill since Friday and how many times did you die? That is how I rate success.

What a bizarre way of measuring success.

Given the way this game works, I find that using the scoreboard as a measure is the bizarre method. It rewards coverage and population rather than superior play.

Measuring success based on cap points and coverage in a game mode based on cap points and coverage is bizarre?

The point I was trying to make, since you missed it, is that the system is flawed. Matches aren’t won by superior play, they are won by who has the best around the clock population and coverage. I pride myself on playing better than my opposition, not on taking keeps while they are sleeping.

I am not sure how to make it any more clear to you. Hopefully you understand this.

And my point, which you also missed is that WvW is and always will be (for the forseeable future) a 24/7 Territory battle. Population, coverage, and effective use of the two (which is where the skill is) are and should be the deciding factors.

That is the nature of the game type.

covenn.7165:

drwookie.6391:

But I guess maybe when we lose our lead overnight it’s because we lack skillz. That’s probably right.

SoR has been getting told this very same thing for quite a long time.

We likely all pay far more attention to what is said about our own server than others. I’m just referring to JQ being considered a “zerg-fest” with “unlimited coverage”. Losing 10k in ~12 hours isn’t what I would consider unlimited coverage.

muekung.2518:

Hey [Merc] guy, Are you still selling popcorn ?

I’m running out of popcorn now.

Sure, 2 destroyer lodestones per kernel.

GekoHayate.2451:

covenn.7165:

GekoHayate.2451:

covenn.7165:

Israel.7056:

covenn.7165:

How many people did you kill since Friday and how many times did you die? That is how I rate success.

What a bizarre way of measuring success.

Given the way this game works, I find that using the scoreboard as a measure is the bizarre method. It rewards coverage and population rather than superior play.

Measuring success based on cap points and coverage in a game mode based on cap points and coverage is bizarre?

The point I was trying to make, since you missed it, is that the system is flawed. Matches aren’t won by superior play, they are won by who has the best around the clock population and coverage. I pride myself on playing better than my opposition, not on taking keeps while they are sleeping.

I am not sure how to make it any more clear to you. Hopefully you understand this.

And my point, which you also missed is that WvW is and always will be (for the forseeable future) a 24/7 Territory battle. Population, coverage, and effective use of the two (which is where the skill is) are and should be the deciding factors.

That is the nature of the game type.

There is skill in “population and coverage”? Sorry, but i’ll have to disagree with you on that one completely. I don’t see how having more people is considered skill.

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

My answer was quite obvious.

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

Well I did spend quite bit of time there trying to help him. Maybe I was being too nice.

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

“I measure success only by K/D ratio” said he.

Apparently he was lying, or left off the bit where he says “except when I don’t”

XD see you in game.

Score update!

15chars

GekoHayate.2451:

covenn.7165:

GekoHayate.2451:

covenn.7165:

Israel.7056:

covenn.7165:

How many people did you kill since Friday and how many times did you die? That is how I rate success.

What a bizarre way of measuring success.

Given the way this game works, I find that using the scoreboard as a measure is the bizarre method. It rewards coverage and population rather than superior play.

Measuring success based on cap points and coverage in a game mode based on cap points and coverage is bizarre?

The point I was trying to make, since you missed it, is that the system is flawed. Matches aren’t won by superior play, they are won by who has the best around the clock population and coverage. I pride myself on playing better than my opposition, not on taking keeps while they are sleeping.

I am not sure how to make it any more clear to you. Hopefully you understand this.

And my point, which you also missed is that WvW is and always will be (for the forseeable future) a 24/7 Territory battle. Population, coverage, and effective use of the two (which is where the skill is) are and should be the deciding factors.

That is the nature of the game type.

dot dot dot….

I didn’t miss your point, in fact you quoted me responding to it. Please try and keep up with the conversation and make relevant responses.

Resonance.4216:

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

“I measure success only by K/D ratio” said he.

Apparently he was lying, or left off the bit where he says “except when I don’t”

XD see you in game.

I think providing some sort of contribution to the overall fight was an implied inclusion in that statement he made about k/d.

Resonance.4216:

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

“I measure success only by K/D ratio” said he.

Apparently he was lying, or left off the bit where he says “except when I don’t”

XD see you in game.

At least that explains the video you posted of horrible elementalist play. You were trying to make a point that even by not dying, you can still be horrible. Unfortunately, that was not my argument or my view point. Try reading the entire conversation again and see if you can get what I was actually saying.

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

“I measure success only by K/D ratio” said he.

Apparently he was lying, or left off the bit where he says “except when I don’t”

XD see you in game.

I think providing some sort of contribution to the overall fight was an implied inclusion in that statement he made about k/d.

speed boosts, might stacks and water fields + cripple and stun obviously don’t count.

Also kitten your “implied inclusion”, how do you know he wasn’t “implying” that he loves getting bananas smeared into his hair?

Resonance.4216:

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

Burl.9567:

Resonance.4216:

covenn.7165:

chest thumpers

This essay, whilst well written, scores 0 marks because you didn’t answer the question.

I think its safe to say he thinks you are a terrible ele. He was just being nice.

“I measure success only by K/D ratio” said he.

Apparently he was lying, or left off the bit where he says “except when I don’t”

XD see you in game.

I think providing some sort of contribution to the overall fight was an implied inclusion in that statement he made about k/d.

speed boosts, might stacks and water fields + cripple and stun obviously don’t count.

Also kitten your “implied inclusion”, how do you know he wasn’t “implying” that he loves getting bananas smeared into his hair?

To the first part, we will just have to agree to disagree on what makes a good staff ele.

To the second part, I can’t speak on covenn’s fantasies with bananas as I don’t know.

So I’m going to throw this out as just a question to the three servers. Where do people think they find the best small group fights? For me, I had some great fights on Blackgate Borderlands between JQ and SoR spawn. It seems to happen on the BL’s more frequently than on EB. I think we focus too much on the PvD zerg.

Thoughts?

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

I’d be perfectly fine with this, can we switch places right now?

Thiefz.3695:

So I’m going to throw this out as just a question to the three servers. Where do people think they find the best small group fights? For me, I had some great fights on Blackgate Borderlands between JQ and SoR spawn. It seems to happen on the BL’s more frequently than on EB. I think we focus too much on the PvD zerg.

Thoughts?

Couldn’t agree more, although I usually find my favorite fights on the eastern road, often in the no mans land between hills and all the northern territory. Being based on the western bay side of course.

Zerg island, between the two southern towers is also a pretty reliable spot to find fights, although you’ll have to watch out for its namesake.

Burl.9567:

GekoHayate.2451:

And my point, which you also missed is that WvW is and always will be (for the forseeable future) a 24/7 Territory battle. Population, coverage, and effective use of the two (which is where the skill is) are and should be the deciding factors.

That is the nature of the game type.

There is skill in “population and coverage”? Sorry, but i’ll have to disagree with you on that one completely. I don’t see how having more people is considered skill.

underlined and bolded the key phrase. When you lack population, efficiency with what players you have is key. Tailored specs, scouting, quick reacting commanders, efficient travel routes etc.

When a group of 20 wipes a group of 40, that group of 20 is operating more efficiently. They are making effective use of their population.

Did you think I meant just having warm bodies was skillful?

Peetee.9406:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

I’d be perfectly fine with this, can we switch places right now?

Heck, I’d love to see Kaineng up here, but Millenium says that next week it’s still Sanctum of Black Quarry T1.

GekoHayate.2451:

Burl.9567:

GekoHayate.2451:

And my point, which you also missed is that WvW is and always will be (for the forseeable future) a 24/7 Territory battle. Population, coverage, and effective use of the two (which is where the skill is) are and should be the deciding factors.

That is the nature of the game type.

There is skill in “population and coverage”? Sorry, but i’ll have to disagree with you on that one completely. I don’t see how having more people is considered skill.

underlined and bolded the key phrase. When you lack population, efficiency with what players you have is key. Tailored specs, scouting, quick reacting commanders, efficient travel routes etc.

When a group of 20 wipes a group of 40, that group of 20 is operating more efficiently. They are making effective use of their population.

Did you think I meant just having warm bodies was skillful?

Meaning it in that respect, I agree. Seeing as the comment was coming from a BG player, I was thinking you meant more of the “recruit more players noobs” as opposed to using numbers efficiently.

Apologies.

covenn.7165:

Snarky snark snarkity blah blah blah snark.

Congratulations! That’s awesome!

Note: the above “quote” was paraphrased for simplicity and was not an actual covenn quote per se.

Art.9820:

joocheese.6314:

Art.9820:

now I’m 100% convinced that some SoR posters are blinded by their self-righteousness lol

Then either you completely misunderstand us or we are failing to accurately convey our gaming philosophy. We are obviously on opposite ends of the gaming spectrum.

Some will do anything to win, others have more of a philosophy which guides what they are willing and not willing to do to win; in some cases winning is not even the ultimate goal. It is not so much a matter of right or wrong, high or low, but of taste, gaming philosophy and style.

We are not better or holier, but just different than you. We care more about how we win than just just winning by any means necessary. Hopefully that explains who we are a bit better and clearer.

Cheers!

After reading some of your posts I see you generalize too much :P; you can call it philosophy if you want, but feeling better than others is where I go, just read last week topic or this one, I’m not insulting just pointing out that SOME SoR posters are blinded by their self-righteousness, and no I’m not talking about covenn don’t worry about that, I totally understand BG or JQ chest-thump but some SoR posters defend and chest-thump with a weird and fanciful fairplay argument taking it to a higher and personal level lol

Couldn’t agree more; we’re trying to weed them out.

Resonance.4216:

Peetee.9406:

Thesilentflute.8761:

Kaineng gave us a better fight in T2. I don’t think you guys belong here In T1. Shape up or ship out. Cause Kainengs coming up next to knock down your doors.

I’d be perfectly fine with this, can we switch places right now?

Heck, I’d love to see Kaineng up here, but Millenium says that next week it’s still Sanctum of Black Quarry T1.

While Kaineng has potential, they’d be obliterated if they moved up to tier 1 now. They have a gaping coverage gap in EU, and their NA is both outnumbered and inexperienced. For the health of their server, it’s probably best if they stay where they are for a while. Plus, from their comments, they seem to be pretty happy in tier 2, so there’s no reason to hasten an end to that.

Beldar.6234:

Grats Joocheese!

Saphaire Everburn – FoE – Blackgate

Thanks!
Looking forward to getting back in the fight. I’m itching to kill me some BG! sorry, killed enough JQ to last me for a couple days. Miss killing BG since we were both in tier 2.

Before the trolls start coming out of their caves, all of this is in jest… it is both an honor and a pleasure to be fighting the two best servers in NA