Guild Wars 2

The queue problem started on Monday, the big patch we got.
One of the thing the big patch fixed, was that people who got DC’d or booted from Fractals are able to get back in.
It’s possible these two things are linked somehow.

Just a thought.

The queue in Tier 1 is insane. Waited for almost three hours for EB to pop today. BLs take an hour or so. Pretty annoying.

Chessrook.8643:

The queue problem started on Monday, the big patch we got.
One of the thing the big patch fixed, was that people who got DC’d or booted from Fractals are able to get back in.
It’s possible these two things are linked somehow.

Just a thought.

That’s a very interesting observation.

I think that’s worth investigating at the very least.

I think they reduced the cap on the total number of players per server per map. Not saying that I’m for or against this but the ramifications are clear. It would help even out matches of uneven populations (to a degree) and have some guilds rethink where they want to be and transfer (gems) to another server.

The cause?

Human nature and shortsightedness.

This is what happens when thousands of players simultaneously transfer to the same half-dozen servers.

maybe the queues are from everyone stacking on a couple of servers, and maybe that it looks like there are few people on the map while it is queued out is because of the new culling?

fivekiller.1432:

maybe the queues are from everyone stacking on a couple of servers, and maybe that it looks like there are few people on the map while it is queued out is because of the new culling?

Yes, because Yak’s Bend and every euro server who are also reporting this same issue, had “everyone stack on a couple of servers”.

Negative.. smaller servers are also reporting this. Not just stacked servers. So, yes the OP’s suggestion could be a valid issue.

That is exactly right enLight but there are some that really want it to be another issue. It could not be that their ideal wvw server is not as green as they imagined it to be. Seriously 3 million copies of the game sold.. mass exodus off servers was not 1 or 2 hundred players it was more likely 1000s. It would be interesting to see the servers that are having this bug, my guess would be JQ, SoS, Kan, FA, TC, SoR, and maybe BG and TC. Have to say that Yaks bend is the only one I have seen complain that does not make sense— maybe there were quieter guilds that went there idk.

Again sorry for the original in inhabitants of those server it certainly does suck that you have this but I find it hard to believe that the mass transfers are not the root cause of your horrendous queue times.

jazzllanna.1278:

That is exactly right enLight but there are some that really want it to be another issue. It could not be that their ideal wvw server is not as green as they imagined it to be. Seriously 3 million copies of the game sold.. mass exodus off servers was not 1 or 2 hundred players it was more likely 1000s. It would be interesting to see the servers that are having this “bug”, my guess would be JQ, SoS, Kan, FA, TC, SoR, and maybe BG.

Again sorry for the original in inhabitants of those server it certainly does suck that you have this but I find it hard to believe that the mass transfers are not the root cause of your horrendous queue times.

Yak’s Bend.
Every euro server (it has a separate thread).
Why, yes, everyone knows that every guild and alliance stacked on Yak’s Bend and the euro servers.

Oh wait…

Lol you copied me before my edit :P

jazzllanna.1278:

Again sorry for the original in inhabitants of those server it certainly does suck that you have this but I find it hard to believe that the mass transfers are not the root cause of your horrendous queue times.

The queue times are one thing …. It’s the lack of actual bodies once you get onto the map that’s the real concern …. You queue for an hour or two expecting it to be bursting with activity when you get in …. And you find 20 players, tops. Lol.

jazzllanna.1278:

Lol you copied me before my edit :P

You’re still missing every euro server.

And no, Yak’s did not suddenly gain a massive influx of players. People very closely follow the flow of transfers, especially in the top tiers.

Vena.8436:

fivekiller.1432:

maybe the queues are from everyone stacking on a couple of servers, and maybe that it looks like there are few people on the map while it is queued out is because of the new culling?

Yes, because Yak’s Bend and every euro server who are also reporting this same issue, had “everyone stack on a couple of servers”.

So is your answer to my question a yes or a no?

And Yak’s Bend has the population to queue 4 maps on a friday night. I have seen it happen. Maybe they are excited to actually have a decent fight for the first time in several weeks.

fivekiller.1432:

So is your answer to my question a yes or a no?

And Yak’s Bend has the population to queue 4 maps on a friday night. I have seen it happen. Maybe they are excited to actually have a decent fight for the first time in several weeks.

Quite clearly its a no.

You’re making pretty broad assumptions to even simply make a basic justification of your point while all evidence stands to reason/show that what you are saying is not the base cause of the problem. Europe didn’t have this problem last week, a hundred thousand europeans of every nationality didn’t suddenly pick up the game and start flooding their respective servers with players.

More over, reports of empty maps with multi-hour queues don’t make much sense in your argument.

Lowered pop. caps from “Full” status to “Very High” with transfer stacking. Not to mention this idea of blackouts by tier 1 servers to get more people in when they were already full to begin with. Cant tell if this is an oversight more by the players or anet.

Just gonna drop this too from Habib Loew:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

enLight.1695:

The cause?

Human nature and shortsightedness.

This is what happens when thousands of players simultaneously transfer to the same half-dozen servers.

You have a typo in your name … somehow you hit the “e” key instead of the “u” key.

Hmmm… I’m not sure why Fractals would affect WvW. I’m thinking it could be either be guesting or the culling change that might have bugged the wvw queue.

How about this….

The WvW cap for ALL servers is determined by = the total amount of players on all three BL’s + EB of the lowest WvW populated server. So I am guessing that is Erradon Terrace. If they have 45 people across all their BL’s + EB, than that means 45 people is everyones cap per BL.

This would force the population of servers to even out.

If that is true then every map would roughly have the same number of people. However, this is not the case. Some have reported that they have around 30ish people while the other server has a lot more. Plus, in a tier 1 where there are more people who wvw, the number should be a lot higher. People from tier 1 are reporting the max on some maps is 30 people. I just don’t believe that during prime time on a weekend, there is a server in tier 1 that cannot field more than 30 people on a map. Some guilds can easily put more than 30 people on 1 map.

Something huge that you people keep missing. They put in the “NEW” culling system with Monday’s patch. You know, the one that aggressively culls ALLIED PLAYERS to allow you to see the enemy faster. As a quick experiment I jumped into EB and joined up with a 30ish man zerg. During the average fight I was only able to see 10 or so of my allies. That’s a full 2/3rds or 20 allied players that I COULD NOT see.

The queues are due to a large number of people playing Wv3 on your respective servers. The fact that you don’t see many allies is due to the fact that a full 2/3rds of them aren’t rendering for you on account of the culling changes.

Culling doesn’t cull chat too.

Which is what many of us have started using a metric for people present.

Vena.8436:

Culling doesn’t cull chat too.

Which is what many of us have started using a metric for people present.

Something else to note. In my experience, the VAST majority of players will never actually type anything in chat. You will never get an accurate head-count by relying on chat activity, just a count of vocal players.

GottFaust.5297:

Something huge that you people keep missing. They put in the “NEW” culling system with Monday’s patch. You know, the one that aggressively culls ALLIED PLAYERS to allow you to see the enemy faster. As a quick experiment I jumped into EB and joined up with a 30ish man zerg. During the average fight I was only able to see 10 or so of my allies. That’s a full 2/3rds or 20 allied players that I COULD NOT see.

The queues are due to a large number of people playing Wv3 on your respective servers. The fact that you don’t see many allies is due to the fact that a full 2/3rds of them aren’t rendering for you on account of the culling changes.

If that is the case then the queue times should have stayed the same on the lower tier servers. However, that is not true. Many from lower tier servers have noticed a huge difference in the queue times going from 5 min to 1+ hour or 15 min to 3+ hours. If it’s just simply players not seeing their allies then the queue time should not have changed.

Also, this culling fix of rendering the enemies first has been tested for 1 week in the past. However, there were no complaints back then. Furthermore, when you run in a group with no enemies nearby, then shouldn’t the new change have no effect? The change was just to render the enemies first but if you have no enemies around then you should still be able to see roughly the same as before.

GottFaust.5297:

Something else to note. In my experience, the VAST majority of players will never actually type anything in chat. You will never get an accurate head-count by relying on chat activity, just a count of vocal players.

It may well be true but there are other issues in this, such as the otherwise mentioned outmanned buff with hour long queues. So, yes, possibly everyone is hiding from chat, and culling is culling everyone out of sight… but even the game has no idea where these people are because its buffing people as if they were outmanned.

Moreover, people don’t usually engage in chat but they will often speak up for simple things. This is particularly true on big tier servers where calls are important things. If someone asks for a head count, most people will usually respond. You can also compare names responding to people you see… and usually you see only the people who responded.

Vena.8436:

GottFaust.5297:

Something else to note. In my experience, the VAST majority of players will never actually type anything in chat. You will never get an accurate head-count by relying on chat activity, just a count of vocal players.

It may well be true but there are other issues in this, such as the otherwise mentioned outmanned buff with hour long queues. So, yes, possibly everyone is hiding from chat, and culling is culling everyone out of sight… but even the game has no idea where these people are because its buffing people as if they were outmanned.

Moreover, people don’t usually engage in chat but they will often speak up for simple things. This is particularly true on big tier servers where calls are important things. If someone asks for a head count, most people will usually respond. You can also compare names responding to people you see… and usually you see only the people who responded.

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

As to your second portion. History shows that a small minority of players will respond to headcount calls, and an even smaller count will respond to these calls while in combat. Given that the vast majority of the time a player spends in Wv3 is in combat you cannot use a headcount call as an accurate representation of player population in a given borderland or battleground.

jojojoon.8607:

Hmmm… I’m not sure why Fractals would affect WvW. I’m thinking it could be either be guesting or the culling change that might have bugged the wvw queue.

Code works in weird ways. You can make a bugfix to adjust the amount of damage a sword does, and suddenly your dragons are flying backwards.

For what it’s worth, I thought the queue stuff was just whining until we had it hit Mag today. Pop caps were normal on reset, and then on saturday we’re getting queues on home BL with 30-40 heads… for 6 hours. Multiple skeptical people have gone in to count heads, and it’s no more than 50 at most with a queue on the BL.

Not sure what’s causing it, but Anet should really start looking into this.

GottFaust.5297:

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

You really must not be looking very hard because (1) there are six such threads, you seem to have missed three of them, and (2) it took me all of one minute to find https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Que-1/1361099.

The rest of your post is playing at statistical fallacy, while also completely ignoring the statement of “people who respond are also the only people you find” and, in more words than previously, “top tier servers do not usually have mute players because communication and quick reaction is key”, unless you mean to claim that culling culls every one except the chosen few who respond in chat. Just trying to guestimate and assume against the established points presented based on some loose precedent for whatever reason, is a baffling stance to hold.

Vena.8436:

GottFaust.5297:

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

You really must not be looking very hard because (1) there are six such threads, you seem to have missed three of them, and (2) it took me all of one minute to find https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Que-1/1361099.

The rest of your post is playing at statistical fallacy, while also completely ignoring the statement of “people who respond are also the only people you find” and, in more words than previously, “top tier servers do not usually have mute players because communication and quick reaction is key”, unless you mean to claim that culling culls every one except the chosen few who respond in chat. Just trying to guestimate and assume against the established points presented based on some loose precedent for whatever reason, is a baffling stance to hold.

Ok. You found a claim in a misspelled post in a thread I skipped due to a misspelled title. I don’t give much merit to that claim honestly.

First, I ignored your quoted statements due to the fact that they are based on pure conjecture. There is a large body of data spanning years of game and social interaction that states that the most vocal of a given group will often be a small portion of said group. Hence the often-used term “Vocal Minority”.

Second, nice attempt at trying to sneak a Straw Man argument in there. I’m going to take that to mean that you are either a troll or not familiar with the concept of a logical fallacy. Speaking of which, this entire topic is a classic example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Third, the queue is working as intended. For more information see the dev post on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

GottFaust.5297:

Vena.8436:

GottFaust.5297:

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

You really must not be looking very hard because (1) there are six such threads, you seem to have missed three of them, and (2) it took me all of one minute to find https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Que-1/1361099.

The rest of your post is playing at statistical fallacy, while also completely ignoring the statement of “people who respond are also the only people you find” and, in more words than previously, “top tier servers do not usually have mute players because communication and quick reaction is key”, unless you mean to claim that culling culls every one except the chosen few who respond in chat. Just trying to guestimate and assume against the established points presented based on some loose precedent for whatever reason, is a baffling stance to hold.

Ok. You found a claim in a misspelled post in a thread I skipped due to a misspelled title. I don’t give much merit to that claim honestly.

First, I ignored your quoted statements due to the fact that they are based on pure conjecture. There is a large body of data spanning years of game and social interaction that states that the most vocal of a given group will often be a small portion of said group. Hence the often-used term “Vocal Minority”.

Second, nice attempt at trying to sneak a Straw Man argument in there. I’m going to take that to mean that you are either a troll or not familiar with the concept of a logical fallacy. Speaking of which, this entire topic is a classic example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Third, the queue is working as intended. For more information see the dev post on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

Then tell me why aren’t there queue timers or position notifications? If everything is working perfectly like you assume then I don’t see the problem in adding this. It’s what, 6 months after release and a feature that any online game has is missing in action?

Or is it because the queue system is so deeply askew that they simply cannot add it without exposing their imprecise system?

BroScientist.9875:

GottFaust.5297:

Vena.8436:

GottFaust.5297:

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

You really must not be looking very hard because (1) there are six such threads, you seem to have missed three of them, and (2) it took me all of one minute to find https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Que-1/1361099.

The rest of your post is playing at statistical fallacy, while also completely ignoring the statement of “people who respond are also the only people you find” and, in more words than previously, “top tier servers do not usually have mute players because communication and quick reaction is key”, unless you mean to claim that culling culls every one except the chosen few who respond in chat. Just trying to guestimate and assume against the established points presented based on some loose precedent for whatever reason, is a baffling stance to hold.

Ok. You found a claim in a misspelled post in a thread I skipped due to a misspelled title. I don’t give much merit to that claim honestly.

First, I ignored your quoted statements due to the fact that they are based on pure conjecture. There is a large body of data spanning years of game and social interaction that states that the most vocal of a given group will often be a small portion of said group. Hence the often-used term “Vocal Minority”.

Second, nice attempt at trying to sneak a Straw Man argument in there. I’m going to take that to mean that you are either a troll or not familiar with the concept of a logical fallacy. Speaking of which, this entire topic is a classic example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Third, the queue is working as intended. For more information see the dev post on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

Then tell me why aren’t there queue timers or position notifications? If everything is working perfectly like you assume then I don’t see the problem in adding this. It’s what, 6 months after release and a feature that any online game has is missing in action?

Or is it because the queue system is so deeply askew that they simply cannot add it without exposing their imprecise system?

Whoa, argumentum ad ignorantiam contained in a thinly veiled straw man.

I’ll humor you anyway. Because they didn’t think to implement a position count, and timers are inaccurate by default as they are based on average data from previous queue times. This isn’t some huge conspiracy to hide a flawed truth. Nice attempt at trolling though “bro”.

Vena.8436:

fivekiller.1432:

So is your answer to my question a yes or a no?

And Yak’s Bend has the population to queue 4 maps on a friday night. I have seen it happen. Maybe they are excited to actually have a decent fight for the first time in several weeks.

Quite clearly its a no.

You’re making pretty broad assumptions to even simply make a basic justification of your point while all evidence stands to reason/show that what you are saying is not the base cause of the problem. Europe didn’t have this problem last week, a hundred thousand europeans of every nationality didn’t suddenly pick up the game and start flooding their respective servers with players.

More over, reports of empty maps with multi-hour queues don’t make much sense in your argument.

I did not make a statement or an argument. Statements do not end with a question mark.

But, my question of whether the culling was causing the issue was only asked because it would in fact explain reports of empty maps with multi-hour queues.

Please stop bothering to argue with idiots who are pursuing their own odd need for Internet argument victory. We all know the queue issue exists, it’s up to each idiot to do his own research on the subject, not our duty to continually reexplain in ever increasing simplistic terms for barnacle heads.

GottFaust.5297:

BroScientist.9875:

GottFaust.5297:

Vena.8436:

GottFaust.5297:

Considering how none of the the 3 other threads I’ve read in the last hour referencing the same topic has the word “outmanned”, “out manned”, “out-manned”, or “out_manned” anywhere in it, I’m calling bull on the fact that it was “otherwise mentioned” by anyone but yourself, in this thread, in your previous post.

You really must not be looking very hard because (1) there are six such threads, you seem to have missed three of them, and (2) it took me all of one minute to find https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Que-1/1361099.

The rest of your post is playing at statistical fallacy, while also completely ignoring the statement of “people who respond are also the only people you find” and, in more words than previously, “top tier servers do not usually have mute players because communication and quick reaction is key”, unless you mean to claim that culling culls every one except the chosen few who respond in chat. Just trying to guestimate and assume against the established points presented based on some loose precedent for whatever reason, is a baffling stance to hold.

Ok. You found a claim in a misspelled post in a thread I skipped due to a misspelled title. I don’t give much merit to that claim honestly.

First, I ignored your quoted statements due to the fact that they are based on pure conjecture. There is a large body of data spanning years of game and social interaction that states that the most vocal of a given group will often be a small portion of said group. Hence the often-used term “Vocal Minority”.

Second, nice attempt at trying to sneak a Straw Man argument in there. I’m going to take that to mean that you are either a troll or not familiar with the concept of a logical fallacy. Speaking of which, this entire topic is a classic example of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Third, the queue is working as intended. For more information see the dev post on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

Then tell me why aren’t there queue timers or position notifications? If everything is working perfectly like you assume then I don’t see the problem in adding this. It’s what, 6 months after release and a feature that any online game has is missing in action?

Or is it because the queue system is so deeply askew that they simply cannot add it without exposing their imprecise system?

Whoa, argumentum ad ignorantiam contained in a thinly veiled straw man.

I’ll humor you anyway. Because they didn’t think to implement a position count, and timers are inaccurate by default as they are based on average data from previous queue times. This isn’t some huge conspiracy to hide a flawed truth. Nice attempt at trolling though “bro”.

Timers may be inaccurate but position counts are not. Seemingly a very simple thing to implement yet they have not.

GottFaust.5297:

Ok. You found a claim in a misspelled post in a thread I skipped due to a misspelled title. I don’t give much merit to that claim honestly.

The spelling is irrelevant because you should have been able to realize what the thread is about, and many people reporting similar issues across the board. In such a scenario not giving credit to the claim, when other claims that seem to follow the same trend are occurring all over, is just plain and willful reasoning bias/blindness.

GottFaust.5297:

First, I ignored your quoted statements due to the fact that they are based on pure conjecture. There is a large body of data spanning years of game and social interaction that states that the most vocal of a given group will often be a small portion of said group. Hence the often-used term “Vocal Minority”.

Irrelevant again. You seem to fail to grasp how Tier 1/2 works, “vocal minority” is a nonsensical term to throw around because you are conveniently ignoring the fact that willful silence in T1/2 can mean losing a fully upgraded keep and no one is going to let that happen. Randoms pop up in chat frequently making reports, thats how servers can have eyes everywhere. The top tiers are all about communication, people talk, and somehow trying to claim vocal minority is nonsense. Yes, sometimes people will be silent and won’t say anything, but to somehow think the majority just sit with their mouths sowed shut in a competitive environment where communication can mean victory or defeat, holding or losing a valuable asset, is gibberish.

People will respond to a head count, just as they respond to a supply count in /s. Or are we going to argue that the majority of a zerg is going to sit on their kitten not reporting available supply in the middle of a siege?

GottFaust.5297:

Straw Man

You may want to look up the term before you use it.

GottFaust.5297:

Third, the queue is working as intended. For more information see the dev post on the first page of the following thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Any-Tarnished-Coast-citizens-agree/first

Welcome to four days ago. Mass reports of this problem started yesterday.

Time works in weird ways, I know.

My guess is they have reduced the player limit size on maps. Its not taken my 1.5hours+ to get into WvW before. I think they might have done it to convince people to move to lower pop servers. If thats the case it may work, because Im starting to consider moving to a low tier inactive WvW server so I can actually play WvW. Waits for Anet to lick their lips at all those gems they will be getting from server transfers.

You can circumvent the lengthy queues by guesting to a low population server and queueing from there.

I wont even attempt to speculate why this works but Ive never had to wait more than 15 minutes to get in.