Guild Wars 2

I think WvWvW has done a lot for community building, but it can be improved upon.

I don’t have an issue with how hard it is to kill people or maybe I just have better luck at killing people.

And then you look at a game like Counter-Strike. Had the same 5 maps, no upgrades of any kind, and no advancement/progression system. Yet it was one of the most played online games of all time and it lived on short burst gaming. Play a map, play a few rounds, go on with your day.

The games a month old and plenty of the things people complain about just aren’t turned on yet. Like ladders and leaderboards for SPVP. Theres a wall / monument for this in the SPVP area, its just blank right now.

Von.2790:

lcizzle.8219:

Stopped reading at “No Real Reason to WvW”… Some of he most popular games in the world were about having fun with no incentive in doing good or bad. I remember when people played games to have fun. Now everyone needs little star stickers and m&ms for completing every task like their mommy use to give them when they were a kid. In a few years time it will go from M&Ms and star stickers to needing the game company to pay you a salary to play.

So many of you are missing the point. Yes, there is fun in WvW currently, without what I’ve brought up. The point is that it’s only fun for short segments. Battlegrounds are fun, for a little while. Eventually though, I, like many others, tire of them and their meaninglessness.

Achievements and cosmetic progress is completely lost on me. I really couldn’t care less. But I get it. Many of you are happy the way things are. I question how long you’ll truly stay interested the way things are now, but that’s great for you!

All I’m offering is an analysis of what I KNOW to be fun for me and many others like me, that is a decade in the making. I think there’s room for everyone to enjoy this game. My enjoyment doesn’t necessarily have to come at the cost of yours.

I’m not saying any of this is bad, just saying the games a month old. When people get settled in and they lock in the numbers on every server they will start working on some of this extra stuff that’s disabled or not finished yet.

The games free, if you feel you aren’t getting enough M&Ms and Star Stickers go reset and play something else for a bit. This is what happens when you burn through content as fast as you can.

Omega.8573:

lcizzle.8219:

Stopped reading at “No Real Reason to WvW”… Some of he most popular games in the world were about having fun with no incentive in doing good or bad. I remember when people played games to have fun. Now everyone needs little star stickers and m&ms for completing every task like their mommy use to give them when they were a kid. In a few years time it will go from M&Ms and star stickers to needing the game company to pay you a salary to play.

No, but if they’re going to package up the same gameplay we’ve had throughout the MMO world and change the UI a little with some small feature additions, then YES – we need an incentive to play. Some of us like to achieve things in games.

No Real Reason to WvW? Try “Because it’s fun.” That’s the same reason play most games in the universe.

Lack of Community Building? I don’t see it. I server hopped for a while. Even at just a glance I noticed great, budding communities on many servers.

Too Hard to Kill People? I kill people all the time, both in group fights and solo. Sometimes the loser escapes death. Sometimes they don’t. The balance here is just right.

As for your concluding minor issues, they are either differences in taste or problems that will be resolved.

I also find it quite ironic that you complain about there being too much deception coming from a game where there were entire packs of people who were permanently invisible.

And please please please please no realm ranks. For the love of all that is beautiful in the universe, please not this. I will cut off my toe and mail it to Arena.net if that’s what it takes to avoid this kind of garbage in GW2.

No Real Reason to WvW? Try “Because it’s fun.” That’s the same reason play most games in the universe.

Lack of Community Building? I don’t see it. I server hopped for a while. Even at just a glance I noticed great, budding communities on many servers.

Too Hard to Kill People? I kill people all the time, both in group fights and solo. Sometimes the loser escapes death. Sometimes they don’t. The balance here is just right.

As for your concluding minor issues, they are either differences in taste or problems that will be resolved.

I also find it quite ironic that you complain about there being too much deception coming from a game where there were entire packs of people who were permanently invisible.

And please please please please no realm ranks. For the love of all that is beautiful in the universe, please not this. I will cut off my toe and mail it to Arena.net if that’s what it takes to avoid this kind of garbage in GW2.

I didn’t read the whole thread, but to anyone who thinks people die too slow…that’s crazy talk. If anything, damage needs to be reduced across the board. I can kill multiple players of nearly any class and gear level (except for tough/vit built guardian) at the same time within 2-4 seconds of a fight beginning. It just feels incredibly stupid, but maybe it will balance out once the majority of the player base has level 80 exotics. Could those people play better to avoid instant death? Sure, but it still shouldn’t even be possible.

They do need to add names of players (imo) in your combat log. Knowing who someone is when you’re fighting them is really part of the fun. Or at the very least some sort of WvWvW leaderboard for individual players and/or guilds.

Franko.1780:

I played DAOC and loved it. Here are my thoughts in case any of the GW2 devs are following this thread.

1) Titles based upon WvW performance (kills, keep lords killed, etc…). This gives you a sense of who you are facing and just how experienced they are. Lets you get a better idea of your own progress.

2) Killspam messages. Gets you in the mood because you know who is active and lets you jump right in to planning on where you are going to catch them and how you want to fight them. Very important on getting those rivalries going that make the game fun.

3) Larger maps with more open field fights. Right now the WvW is all about taking keeps. I would love to see more open field fights that focus on movement and maneuver rather than on seige.

Playing in the Enemy Borderlands, instead of EB or your server Borderlands, brings many more open field fights, especially in the buffer zone between the north/Garrison and the south. In fact, generating occasions for open field fights appears to be the reason for their design.

This is the main reason I play almost exclusively in them (besides the fun of defending the Bay). It’s a plus that their queues are so much shorter.

As a ranger I’m not interested in collecting medals and aquiring PVP gear, because the medium PVP armor is not exactly the most beautiful piece that I’ve ever seen in an MMO.

Omega.8573:

Raffie.7865:

Every game steals from other games.

Basically all MMO’s stold from UO and EverQuest, who in turn stole from D&D.

Yes, but those games aren’t boasting that they’re re-inventing the MMO genre…

Those games were the beginning of the MMO genre. They started the whole thing.

sorry @OP but i stopped reading there

No Real Reason to WvW
Right now, the reasons to WvW in GW2 are all focused around acquiring gear. If you’re like me, wearing all exotics, there isn’t much to gain. Karma, Tokens, Cash, none of it will really advance me in any meaningful way.

sorry but you are looking for a carrot to enjoy GW2/WvWvW or sthing….guess what there is NO carrot….if you were a trully DAoC player you should know that there was NO carrot also in RvR (and Realm Ranks i do not consider them carrot….).

sorry friend but i wont’ read the rest of the topic cause you clearly want to play other game

This op x100. I would pay a monthly fee to have realm ranks. I played for 6+ years before I burned out. Played on the losing side for years (palo hib) as a firby bard. Realm Ranks were a way to improve your toon and gave you a reason to go out and kill other players.

In this game you wouldn’t even need to add Realm Abilities, just give us a talent point every Realm Rank or sub Realm Rank (eg. at 10.1 you get a talent point, at 11 you could have 10 talent points and another major line ability). This way you are not having to creating new abilities to balance, just balance the ones you have.

While DAoC was definitaly not the most perfect game (interrupt code anyone?) the idea’s of Realm Ranks was brilliant. Also late game crafting was really well balanced and housing was fun but not needed (i loved hunting trophies). TBH even the housing gave you a reason to continue playing as you hunted for cool trophies to have in your house.

Jestersmiles.4365:

Kso.6458:

Jestersmiles.4365:

Franko.1780:

I played DAOC and loved it. Here are my thoughts in case any of the GW2 devs are following this thread.

1) Titles based upon WvW performance (kills, keep lords killed, etc…). This gives you a sense of who you are facing and just how experienced they are. Lets you get a better idea of your own progress.

2) Killspam messages. Gets you in the mood because you know who is active and lets you jump right in to planning on where you are going to catch them and how you want to fight them. Very important on getting those rivalries going that make the game fun.

3) Larger maps with more open field fights. Right now the WvW is all about taking keeps. I would love to see more open field fights that focus on movement and maneuver rather than on seige.

We already have titles for WvW how many times must this be repeated?

Seriously what is it with you people personal Glory in WvW where it more about Teamwork.

What don’t have the cojones for SPVP? That must be it……

You people sound the the fake battleground heroes from wow who could not cut it in Arena, so they go to battleground and act like their boss.

silliness

Spvp is boring and you dont get anything for winning there either(i dont count new fancy clothes as anything). . If you played daoc and had a decent roaming group you would know what were looking for. Knocking people off a node isnt pvp. I dont know wtf it is. Not fun after 3 weeks thats for sure. I also have no issue with teamwork. As long as its me and 4 others. I dont need to be with 50 other people then it becomes boring. part o the fun about daoc was the room to roam and fight and not know what you were gonna run into. Thats why i want to like the w3 in this game but its so cluttered I dont think it will ever be like that.

“you dont get anything for winning there either”…… -_- , PVP is not about Fluff, it about showing your better than someone else, WvW is about Servers trying to show off who better.

By your definition no mode outside Deathmatch is considered pvp….. LOL wow ok.

People obsession with the imagery dangling carrot makes me laugh.

BTW hitting a door for 15 minutes ….is SOOOOOO FUN……

Hmm. Ok, deathmatch = players killing players which to me is what pvp is. Once i have to kill a mob or stand in a circle its player vs. environment. I dont know what youre talking about with the carrot. Im from daoc. We didnt have a carrot. We fought people. And again i dont know what youre talking about with banging on the door cause once again Ill tell you Im from daoc, i like to kill other players. I do not pve.

Then go back to DAOC?

tarnin.1690:

This op x100. I would pay a monthly fee to have realm ranks. I played for 6+ years before I burned out. Played on the losing side for years (palo hib) as a firby bard. Realm Ranks were a way to improve your toon and gave you a reason to go out and kill other players.

While DAoC was definitaly not the most perfect game (interrupt code anyone?)

Yo! The interrupt code is what makes the game, i always thought. It is its downfall too cause kids from wow and the newer games have nonkitten clue what to do when they have to stand still and position and cant pewpew. Ive been waiting and praying for every new game that comes out to have hard interrupts.

I really would like to be able to prove to my team how much work I’m doing to repair our keeps, and money I spend on siege, but all those achievements require months of work to achieve for their respective titles. I’ve ran so much supply from supply camps to keep, instead of taking it from the keep, and I’ll get trolled with having taken it from the keep instead. sigh

No point to WvW:

If wanting your server to win the match and continue to strive to be on the top of the ranking list and fun isnt a point to WvW then what is? Grinding out gear endlessly? No thanks. In DAoC gear wasnt even apart of RvR you got crafted/spellcrafted armor with a mix of artifacts and such from PvE that didnt really take too long to get. Also there is title progression in WvW, I am currently working on getting the Ultimate Dominator.

Lack of community:

I have seen quite the community building up on Darkhaven, and it is still quite early.

Too hard to kill people:

Just last night my guild group of about 20 slammed into invaders, about 40, hitting one of our keeps and just as the inner door got to 5% we rolled them, it was quite epic. And it took about 2minutes in all seriousness.

As for adding realm ranks/realm abilities and such to gw2 is a bad idea and does go against the game design. I did like the system in DAoC but i disliked it at the same time and actually what I like most about the RR system from DAoC was just the cosmetic stuff like the RR titles. The benefits from having spent more time than another player in RvR was just too great(realm abilities). I think the design of gw2 is great, its focus is balanced pvp/WvW and not gear grinding.

Kso.6458:

tarnin.1690:

This op x100. I would pay a monthly fee to have realm ranks. I played for 6+ years before I burned out. Played on the losing side for years (palo hib) as a firby bard. Realm Ranks were a way to improve your toon and gave you a reason to go out and kill other players.

While DAoC was definitaly not the most perfect game (interrupt code anyone?)

Yo! The interrupt code is what makes the game, i always thought. It is its downfall too cause kids from wow and the newer games have nonkitten clue what to do when they have to stand still and position and cant pewpew. Ive been waiting and praying for every new game that comes out to have hard interrupts.

The issue was the code was sloppy. 3 sec interrupt unless you tried to cast during that 3 seconds and sometimes you would end up in perma interrupt. Also, that code is what caused the mass introduction of insta’s and the healer health pool bubbles (forgot the name of it, but the pool of hp that would auto heal the group). Look, I LOVED my machine gun eld with 3 insta debuffs, it was a solo visible machine but lets be honest, my insta’s and interrupt stick (dagger with dd charges) shouldnt be an insta win because I got my interrupt off before the next guy.

I do agree on the positioning though. No one has a clue how to do it, they all run head long or hard bail. No extend groups, no positioning on contact, no re-positioning on a fallen ally or enemy, nothing. Just complete chaos of bg wow players not really understanding open ground basics. I play an ele and I constantly try a slow back peddle while dropping snares and instead of chewing up the idiots who charge though it, everyone else is running like heck at full speed back to some unknown point to turn around and get slaughtered.

Agree with the OP x 100.

my 2 cents:

1) Make Server Forums to allow us to better communicate/coordinate with our peers and get a sense of community.

2) Let us know our enemies names! This builds rivalry and further enhances the community. “Oh no, its XYZ again” “that guy always owns me” “I’ll chase that !@#% to the end of the zone to try and kill him/her”.

3) My only other complaint about WvW is that the zones are too small. Its too easy to get back to a certain point in relatively short order. This makes the penalty of death somewhat trivial and diminishes the feeling of a keep siege or defense. If death was a bit more penalizing in the sense that it took longer to get back into the action then I think it would enhance the risk/reward of WvW combat.

killbill.7910:

sorry @OP but i stopped reading there

No Real Reason to WvW
Right now, the reasons to WvW in GW2 are all focused around acquiring gear. If you’re like me, wearing all exotics, there isn’t much to gain. Karma, Tokens, Cash, none of it will really advance me in any meaningful way.

sorry but you are looking for a carrot to enjoy GW2/WvWvW or sthing….guess what there is NO carrot….if you were a trully DAoC player you should know that there was NO carrot also in RvR (and Realm Ranks i do not consider them carrot….).

sorry friend but i wont’ read the rest of the topic cause you clearly want to play other game

How in the world did you not consider Realm Ranks as “carrots”? I played because the combat was incredibly fun AND I earned stuff while doing so. The combat isn’t great in GW2, and you don’t earn anything. To people with a clue, we see a problem with this.

Please let me know how much fun you’re having in a couple of months; if you’re even playing the game anymore. We never said WvW isn’t fun, we said it’s fun doesn’t last long.

Omega.8573:

killbill.7910:

sorry @OP but i stopped reading there

No Real Reason to WvW
Right now, the reasons to WvW in GW2 are all focused around acquiring gear. If you’re like me, wearing all exotics, there isn’t much to gain. Karma, Tokens, Cash, none of it will really advance me in any meaningful way.

sorry but you are looking for a carrot to enjoy GW2/WvWvW or sthing….guess what there is NO carrot….if you were a trully DAoC player you should know that there was NO carrot also in RvR (and Realm Ranks i do not consider them carrot….).

sorry friend but i wont’ read the rest of the topic cause you clearly want to play other game

How in the world did you not consider Realm Ranks as “carrots”? I played because the combat was incredibly fun AND I earned stuff while doing so. The combat isn’t great in GW2, and you don’t earn anything. To people with a clue, we see a problem with this.

Please let me know how much fun you’re having in a couple of months; if you’re even playing the game anymore. We never said WvW isn’t fun, we said it’s fun doesn’t last long.

Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

Sky that is one of the most insulting things I have seen on these forums. Do not for one second think that because I like to have a progression system in WvW does not mean I only want to smash brand new players because of something lacking in my real life. You just don’t get it do you? I want to feel some form of attachment and achievement to the character I play over a long period of time. I do not want to have my stats overly inflated over new players. I just simply want a return on my investment. I DO NOT get that from cosmetic gear alone. Just because I have different goals in a game doesn’t mean my real life is inadequate in any shape or form.

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

Hardest? Lol, try a melee bard, then we’ll talk. I think where was ONE game wide and he was kinda successful. At least you had stealth, insta cc and good get away tools.

the thing most people here don’t get is in this kinda game, if you have nothing to strive for, the novelty of WvW will wear off as “winning” for your server nets… well… nothing what so ever as its swapped out every two weeks. Only the top 5 or 6 servers will really matter as the rest just kinda shuffle around in middle. All these people saying “server pride is enough!” will be gone in 3-6 months or will have transferred to one of the 5 or 6 top servers.

tarnin.1690:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

Hardest? Lol, try a melee bard, then we’ll talk. I think where was ONE game wide and he was kinda successful. At least you had stealth, insta cc and good get away tools.

the thing most people here don’t get is in this kinda game, if you have nothing to strive for, the novelty of WvW will wear off as “winning” for your server nets… well… nothing what so ever as its swapped out every two weeks. Only the top 5 or 6 servers will really matter as the rest just kinda shuffle around in middle. All these people saying “server pride is enough!” will be gone in 3-6 months or will have transferred to one of the 5 or 6 top servers.

This. And, you’re right – melee bard; WAAAAAY HARDER. But I’ve never actually even seen one! So for me it doesn’t count :P

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

P.S. For me personally I get all the reward of just Pvping. Roaming around and finding other skilled players that offer a challenge, its fun and will keep me enterained for a long time.

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

I really want a Realm Point rank system. Often this idea gets shot down because getting more abilities would lead players to be far to powerful. However in GW2’s system that problem is drastically cut back by the fact that you can only bring X abilities into a battle in the first place.

I’m not a huge fan of the snare @ low health idea for GW2, but otherwise I completely support this thread. As another former DAoC player I honestly came over to this forum thinking I might write something to encourage the implementation of a realm rank system. Glad someone else was already on it!

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

Lol? Are you implying your a better player than me? The amount of gear in the game right now isnt a grind to get, it takes some time but its not a constant chase after gear. If your talking about skill alone well of course you need gear but im talking about two equally geared players, typically the better skilled player will win.

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

Lol? Are you implying your a better player than me? The amount of gear in the game right now isnt a grind to get, it takes some time but its not a constant chase after gear. If your talking about skill alone well of course you need gear but im talking about two equally geared players, typically the better skilled player will win.

No, that’s not necessarily the argument. The argument is whether or not you have to grind in this game. The varying degrees of grinding gear are irrelevant, but you still have to get gear in order to compete with other people. The only difference is how easy or long it takes. You guys bash gear grinding so much, when it’s technically very much in this game…

It comes down to skill in WoW when 2 people are equally geared, as well. How is that different?

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

point being – there’s already enough ramp up time level 80 + exotic gears. We don’t need another RR point grid so you can roll with more or less equal footing. Its just another treadmill.

krakenstar.1674:

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

point being – there’s already enough ramp up time level 80 + exotic gears. We don’t need another RR point grid so you can roll with more or less equal footing. Its just another treadmill.

I have tons of 85s in WoW, almost every 50 in DAoC, and have leveled plenty in other MMOs. I’m tired of questing. ArenaNet claims I can jump in and compete in WvW. Are you now telling me this isn’t a good idea without first getting to 80 and getting the exotic gear? Because if not, then it’s still a grind

I didn’t intend to be insulting, but that is how I see it. I also wasn’t insulting your real life… just pointing out that the way I understand it does tie back into your real human psyche.

For example… someone who is very lonely might be the same person who seeks to garner attention and “fame” in an MMO. This may or may not be true, of course, but in my experience it has been true more often than not. Nothing wrong with it.

I disagree that a game will get stale without your character becoming ever more powerful. I have played TF2 since it was released, and sometimes STILL play it today. I don’t play it because I have an attachment to my characters (which would imply I used it as an escape from my real life), but because the game is fun.

I commend the way sPvP in this game was done. It is a big deal for me.

I know W3 has elements of gear progression and some minor grind, but that’s okay because even a level 1 can compete with a level 80, and furthermore there is no great disparity among level 80s.

Any system that includes a mechanism for a continuous growth of power will suffer from several MAJOR problems as time goes on. I won’t list them all here now, but I can if need be.

+1 for DAoC RR Titles and guild capes.

Sky.9347:

I didn’t intend to be insulting, but that is how I see it. I also wasn’t insulting your real life… just pointing out that the way I understand it does tie back into your real human psyche.

For example… someone who is very lonely might be the same person who seeks to garner attention and “fame” in an MMO. This may or may not be true, of course, but in my experience it has been true more often than not. Nothing wrong with it.

I disagree that a game will get stale without your character becoming ever more powerful. I have played TF2 since it was released, and sometimes STILL play it today. I don’t play it because I have an attachment to my characters (which would imply I used it as an escape from my real life), but because the game is fun.

I commend the way sPvP in this game was done. It is a big deal for me.

I know W3 has elements of gear progression and some minor grind, but that’s okay because even a level 1 can compete with a level 80, and furthermore there is no great disparity among level 80s.

Any system that includes a mechanism for a continuous growth of power will suffer from several MAJOR problems as time goes on. I won’t list them all here now, but I can if need be.

You can’t compare an FPS to an MMO. The entire experience is different – in an FPS, you’re stats and kills/deaths actually matter in the fight, the matches are shorter, and it’s a small-man vs. small-man. In WvW, you’re 1 of two hundred players zerging around in a field. You could log off and nobody would notice. You receive no recognition for anything you do other than your own “pat on the back” (not saying you need recognition, but infamy also made DAoC the game it was – but that’s a whole other argument).

I think as long as the progression doesn’t overpower characters like it did back in vanilla WoW, there’s not a huge problem with including it.

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

Lol? Are you implying your a better player than me? The amount of gear in the game right now isnt a grind to get, it takes some time but its not a constant chase after gear. If your talking about skill alone well of course you need gear but im talking about two equally geared players, typically the better skilled player will win.

No, that’s not necessarily the argument. The argument is whether or not you have to grind in this game. The varying degrees of grinding gear are irrelevant, but you still have to get gear in order to compete with other people. The only difference is how easy or long it takes. You guys bash gear grinding so much, when it’s technically very much in this game…

It comes down to skill in WoW when 2 people are equally geared, as well. How is that different?

Getting 80 exotics is fairly easy in this game, it is clearly not the focus of the game. In no way shape or form am I complaining about how difficult it is to get geared in this game. Its not. I never said anything about skill and WoW in the first place.

Omega.8573:

krakenstar.1674:

Omega.8573:

purplestone.8364:

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

“Titles, badges, karma, money, experience=skill points at 80, server pride. How do you not earn anything in WvW?”

Because for them, it isn’t about that. It’s about being able to steamroll any newer players easily with inflated stats because they’ve been doing it longer. It’s about finding a sense of pride in creating a character persona that grows to be powerful, like a god among men.

It’s a sense of entitlement, and of retribution for the things they do not or can not have in their real life. They don’t want rewards, they want rewards that put them in a class above brand new players.

lol. Got owned a lot in other MMOs, did we? You people complain about gear in games like WoW, but it’s honestly just an excuse for playing bad. I beat better geared people ALL THE TIME. It’s not hard – you have to play smart. In DAOC, I beat incredibly high realm rank assassin’s with a lowbie RR minstrel without a pet (one of the hardest classes in the game to do this, btw). Don’t just jump to conclusions like “oh he wants gear so he can facerollwinlolgg”.

Don’t believe me? Look on youtube for a video of a WoW rogue killing plenty of people 1v1 with lvl 1 gear on at 80 v 80 (I forget the name of the player). Yes, gear makes it easier – but skill will win 90% of the time.

PS. I’m not saying you guys are not skilled at gaming, I understand you don’t have the time to put into these games that other players do.

I just dont want to have to grind gear sets, its boring and takes time away from pwning newbs. If you need something more rewarding then what is currently offered in WvW that is understandable but the way the game is designed it shouldnt give you any advantage over another player, skill does that alone..and orbs.

So if I create a new character at level 1 with no gear, I should be able to beat your 80 with full exotic gear with no problem, right?

point being – there’s already enough ramp up time level 80 + exotic gears. We don’t need another RR point grid so you can roll with more or less equal footing. Its just another treadmill.

I have tons of 85s in WoW, almost every 50 in DAoC, and have leveled plenty in other MMOs. I’m tired of questing. ArenaNet claims I can jump in and compete in WvW. Are you now telling me this isn’t a good idea without first getting to 80 and getting the exotic gear? Because if not, then it’s still a grind

I have leveled my Guardian solely in WvWvW from level 4 to level 44, so far. Sometimes I get my butt handed to me in a 1 v 1, but I just generally try not to be Rambo and I rarely die.

Omega.8573:

Sky.9347:

I didn’t intend to be insulting, but that is how I see it. I also wasn’t insulting your real life… just pointing out that the way I understand it does tie back into your real human psyche.

For example… someone who is very lonely might be the same person who seeks to garner attention and “fame” in an MMO. This may or may not be true, of course, but in my experience it has been true more often than not. Nothing wrong with it.

I disagree that a game will get stale without your character becoming ever more powerful. I have played TF2 since it was released, and sometimes STILL play it today. I don’t play it because I have an attachment to my characters (which would imply I used it as an escape from my real life), but because the game is fun.

I commend the way sPvP in this game was done. It is a big deal for me.

I know W3 has elements of gear progression and some minor grind, but that’s okay because even a level 1 can compete with a level 80, and furthermore there is no great disparity among level 80s.

Any system that includes a mechanism for a continuous growth of power will suffer from several MAJOR problems as time goes on. I won’t list them all here now, but I can if need be.

You can’t compare an FPS to an MMO. The entire experience is different – in an FPS, you’re stats and kills/deaths actually matter in the fight, the matches are shorter, and it’s a small-man vs. small-man. In WvW, you’re 1 of two hundred players zerging around in a field. You could log off and nobody would notice. You receive no recognition for anything you do other than your own “pat on the back” (not saying you need recognition, but infamy also made DAoC the game it was – but that’s a whole other argument).

I think as long as the progression doesn’t overpower characters like it did back in vanilla WoW, there’s not a huge problem with including it.

The experience might be different in some ways, but it is very similar in others.

As I have said before, I am 100% behind any cosmetic or non-mechanical rewards. Titles sound great. Super rare skins are cool. Anything at all that doesn’t put you 1 single stat point above anyone else who has your level of gear, but not your time played.

It’s not a big deal… but it is a slippery slope. In the next month, such a system wouldn’t even be noticed. The problem is it becomes a bar to entry as time goes on.

Even WoW has had to make a massive move to scale back their gear stats… things get amazingly out of hand after a while. You MUST continue to offer stronger and stronger gear, because someone will always come back with the “I’ve got all that gear and there’s nothing left to do! Why can’t I be rewarded for having played this game 3000 hours longer than Joe Schmoe?!”, and eventually an empty suit of gear far outweighs whatever player you stick inside of it.

I understand you want some long term personal goals and rewards, thats fine by me. What I do not understand is why you would need to increase your stats in order to have fun. That stinks of a psychological problem that you are feeding via video games, in my unprofessional opinion.

@ sky, it is not about that at all. I dont want to smash noobs lol. I love even fights, group v group 8v8!! Im trying to think of a way to describe how kitten awesome it was to go up against an equally skilled group and have a 10 minute group v group fight with 1 or 2 peeps left limping around at the end. Its ridiculous. If you never got to do that you missed out on a big part of daoc. I guess a lot of people didnt get to experience it because of play time issues not being able to put a consistent group or w/e but yeah for sure best video game times of my life.

Kso.6458:

@ sky, it is not about that at all. I dont want to smash noobs lol. I love even fights, group v group 8v8!! Im trying to think of a way to describe how kitten awesome it was to go up against an equally skilled group and have a 10 minute group v group fight with 1 or 2 peeps left limping around at the end. Its ridiculous. If you never got to do that you missed out on a big part of daoc. I guess a lot of people didnt get to experience it because of play time issues not being able to put a consistent group or w/e but yeah for sure best video game times of my life.

So then regarding the rewards you want… can you find a way to make them non-mechanical? If so, I would support any effort to create long term goals for people who like that sort of thing.

I think it’s about emotional attachment. Now stay with me until I finish this. Back in the day when I was in the military I was often put in charge of medium sized tasks. When this would happen I would be assigned a group of lower enlisted personnel to help execute what task I was assigned. Dealing with lower enlisted can often be difficult because they have no actual desire to complete the task and relentlessly smoking them into the ground is often counterproductive. (They will just move slower) So often I would delegate small tasks to each individual where they could see and have a very tangible way to gauge their efforts. This caused them to develop an emotional investment to the project. Soon after no one would be late and they were motivated to finish the task. To see the summation of all their individual hard work. It was that emotional attachment, spawned by small tasks that kept them coming back day after day on time(Besides the thought of jail because of court marshal) That same emotional attachment can be seen everywhere from people who quit their corporate jobs to start their own company and slave away vigorously day after day. Nothing is lacking in my life for me to want to have that same emotional attachment to my efforts in a virtual world. I do not think I am my character, I do not pretend to not be myself. I simply like the feeling of accomplishment through hard work. Cosmetic gear can accomplish this at a very minimum but it is often not enough. Human develop emotional attachments to a lot of things and it is not frowned upon . I am emotionally attached to my car, which has taken me to 48 of the 50 US states. I have an emotional attachment to my computer which i built myself and fixed several times. This doesn’t mean my life is unfulfilling or lacking in any way. Its just a human mechanism.

The lack of progression makes this game a MMO shooter without the aiming. I want the RPG aspect which is very diluted.

I can make the same argument that without a mechanism for continuous growth (Or at least longer growth then the 1 week from 1 to 80) the game will suffer.

Will.4165:

I think it’s about emotional attachment. Now stay with me until I finish this. Back in the day when I was in the military I was often put in charge of medium sized tasks. When this would happen I would be assigned a group of lower enlisted personnel to help execute what task I was assigned. Dealing with lower enlisted can often be difficult because they have no actual desire to complete the task and relentlessly smoking them into the ground is often counterproductive. (They will just move slower) So often I would delegate small tasks to each individual where they could see and have a very tangible way to gauge their efforts. This caused them to develop an emotional investment to the project. Soon after no one would be late and they were motivated to finish the task. To see the summation of all their individual hard work. It was that emotional attachment, spawned by small tasks that kept them coming back day after day on time(Besides the thought of jail because of court marshal) That same emotional attachment can be seen everywhere from people who quit their corporate jobs to start their own company and slave away vigorously day after day. Nothing is lacking in my life for me to want to have that same emotional attachment to my efforts in a virtual world. I do not think I am my character, I do not pretend to not be myself. I simply like the feeling of accomplishment through hard work. Cosmetic gear can accomplish this at a very minimum but it is often not enough. Human develop emotional attachments to a lot of things and it is not frowned upon . I am emotionally attached to my car, which has taken me to 48 of the 50 US states. I have an emotional attachment to my computer which i built myself and fixed several times. This doesn’t mean my life is unfulfilling or lacking in any way. Its just a human mechanism.

The lack of progression makes this game a MMO shooter without the aiming. I want the RPG aspect which is very diluted.

I can make the same argument that without a mechanism for continuous growth (Or at least longer growth then the 1 week from 1 to 80) the game will suffer.

A good post.

I can understand what you’re saying here, and I see some merit in it.

My primary concern though is that any continuous progress built into the system implies an INFINITE progression curve, even if it is practically limited by play time.

What I mean is… I have played this game since the start of Headstart, and I still have no idea why people say they level from 1-80 in one week. That’s insane, and is foreign to my understanding of enjoying a game.

Surely, no matter how far back you stick that carrot some people are going to get it. They have too, or they will just get frustrated and no problem has been solved.

So then, to keep them playing you put another carrot just a little further. This will continue through the life of the game, and usually is paired with a subscription fee.

But what about the guy who picks up GW2 sometime in July of 2013, or January 2014. In my opinion, he should be on a level playing field without having to spend months grinding some achievement that FINALLY gets him on equal ground with the carrot chasers.

GW and GW2 were designed to not have the constant carrot, and not require a monthly subscription fee. The two things are almost interlocked at this point. I do not want either of them, and would quit the game if they came about.

Infinite mechanical “progression” is a very bad thing, and is contrary to the stated design philosophy of this game.

Sky, I’m not even going to dignify those statements with a response.

Von.2790:

Sky, I’m not even going to dignify those statements with a response.

I gather from your response that you are unhappy and unmoved by my opinion.

;-)

Really, I am not going to troll anyone or be ankitten I just have a very different opinion and I want to share that for any developers who might read this thread. I mean no particular offense to anyone, and I understand in the end we are all just gamers trying to have a good time.

Raffie.7865:

Every game steals from other games.

Basically all MMO’s stold from UO and EverQuest, who in turn stole from D&D.

WoW stolen everything from previous games, but people like to ignore that fact. No one ever came out and said WoW doesn’t bring anything new to Everquest because it was their first game

eladox.3457:

It was possible to beat 5-6 rr higher players/groups in daoc if your class/composition is suitable.
LOLOLSMASHNOOBS is an extremely stupid argument.
Stop being bad.

Not only that but if all you did was smash noobs all day your rr’s would crawl up. The points you got were dependent on who you fought. Cull 100 noobs and get like 10 rps. Kill another high RR 8 man and get 1500 a pop for them. People either left DAoC early or were not part of the 8v8 group and just zerged around.

Also, who ever mentioned DF… now THAT would be interesting. Could do a DF or PoC kinda thing. Used to make keeps changes ALL the time when DF was king. Rush to get keeps, then haul into DF before it closed to get your glowies. other realm would go out and get keeps, clear out df, and the cycle started again. TONS of rvr action then and lots of keeps changing hands (old school keeps too with guards tough as nails)

From what you guys describe DAOC seem to have a pretty inferior game play compared to GW2-WvW. Why getting stuck on that out-dated game? Move forward

Kazim.2043:

From what you guys describe DAOC seem to have a pretty inferior game play compared to GW2-WvW. Why getting stuck on that out-dated game? Move forward

inferior? lol, not likely. maybe pve side (throw bodies at mob, win!) in pvp? Nope. The suits you built were so complicated they had special calculators to work out how you would build them. Group dynamic was 8man which gave a ton of leeway on how you ran. You could have bomb groups, extend groups, fld groups, etc… RvR was, and will probably always be, the best side vs side based PvP in any game. The issue with it? Too complicated for the noobs of today who are used to WoW handing them everything ezmode. No one wants to bust out a calculator to get every last point in a suit and perfectly min/max their toon. They want it easy, handed to them, and thats it. Look at all the threads in here about “OMG night caps!!!” Give me a break.

DAoC was what every side based PvP game should aspire to be like. Indepth, multiple options, and open field. Wanna 8v8? How about small man (my 3 or 4 man group would roll all night destroying pugs and giving 8mans a good run for their money)? Solo? Zerg? You can do any of those and be a success if you didn’t suck. I used to run 8man, small man, and even solo on a non stealth. In this game? Meh, zerg or die. Not enough room to roam, small mans get mauled by zergs, solos get mauled by zergs. Needs more space.

Also, as long as transfers are available, no one cares about their server? Losing? Copy to winning side! Whoops, new pairing and your losing, copy to winning side again! yaks bend mauled for a week, we got an influx of AR people. We get a new pairing and suck, off they go!

Agreed. Free transfers need to end. The game’s been out long enough. It’s time to begin cultivating Realm ( errr.. Server/World ) pride!

DAoC was my introduction to pvp, and it hooked me. That does not mean I agree verbatim with the op.

The realm rank system in DAoC is not the model of perfection. Extremely long term point aggregation systems like that punish players the do not start early enough, or do not burden themselves daily. The trait system in GW2 is the equivalent without the time requirement.

Holding an objective should not be gaining a weakness. Defense should be better off.

What the op wants, as many others have said here, as I agree with, is that customization/personalization needs to improve. True, I play for fun. I played battlegrounds and Darkness Falls in DAoC more than RvR. They were more balanced or interesting. GW2 does a great job making WvW balanced and interesting, so it is adequate atm. Still, more recognitions should be made.