Guild Wars 2

Some kind of thief guild would be good idea. 36 thiefs and 4 mesmers.

Xter.6271:

As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Ethier way, he never gets far

the problem with thieves is two fold (you have heard this before, but probably just conveniently forgotten); the stealth mechanic denies your opponent information, you don’t know where they are going you only know where you would go. so for the duration of the stealth you have to act with no feedback on what your actions are doing if anything.

and the second problem is that thieves are the fastest class in the game. it seems to me that arena net is unaware of what a problem this is and how incredibly powerful mobility is to allow this to happen. what this means is that stealth completely aside a thief can get away from a fight if they so choose and with stealth they can get away from ANY fight AND initiate any fight.

this allows the thief to build for glass cannon specks that are denied to other classes because they have a built in safety net to their class mechanic that no other class comes close to matching. while this may have some innate balance in pve, in pvp it makes for a completely broken class.

the thief puts every other class on notice in WvW, forces us to gear ourselves with the threat of a thief in mind and adopt tactics based on the assumption of a thief being present at all times. after talking to guild mates who main thieves i’ve come to learn that the best possible hard counter to a thief is another thief, something that your post hints at collaborating.

this is why the thief needs a severe nerf, or the future of guild wars 2 and WvW will find itself populated by nothing but thieves.

thieves.

I hate them.

they are not fun to fight.

the whole idea of being able to hide while IN combat is just insane imo, and makes no sense at all. it at least needs a cooldown, and let aoe’s bust them out of sneak also.

Fiorrello.8126:

Xter.6271:

As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Ethier way, he never gets far

the problem with thieves is two fold (you have heard this before, but probably just conveniently forgotten); the stealth mechanic denies your opponent information, you don’t know where they are going you only know where you would go. so for the duration of the stealth you have to act with no feedback on what your actions are doing if anything.

and the second problem is that thieves are the fastest class in the game. it seems to me that arena net is unaware of what a problem this is and how incredibly powerful mobility is to allow this to happen. what this means is that stealth completely aside a thief can get away from a fight if they so choose and with stealth they can get away from ANY fight AND initiate any fight.

this allows the thief to build for glass cannon specks that are denied to other classes because they have a built in safety net to their class mechanic that no other class comes close to matching. while this may have some innate balance in pve, in pvp it makes for a completely broken class.

the thief puts every other class on notice in WvW, forces us to gear ourselves with the threat of a thief in mind and adopt tactics based on the assumption of a thief being present at all times. after talking to guild mates who main thieves i’ve come to learn that the best possible hard counter to a thief is another thief, something that your post hints at collaborating.

this is why the thief needs a severe nerf, or the future of guild wars 2 and WvW will find itself populated by nothing but thieves.

I will admit the stealth is a little unbalanced but that’s the tatic for now. I really think they should implement a mechanic that makes it so if they are hit (Melee/Range/AoE) by anything in stealth, they are forced out of stealth. Even if it’s just an AoE condition they get hit by, but all condition damage prior to stealth doesn’t force them out.

And I have to disagree with the worst enemy for a thief, is a thief. I can kill thieves easily, because they all use the same tatic, glass cannons, or just terrible at other mechanics of the class. My worst enemy is a warrior or guardain. I’m not specced as a glass cannon where I can do super high DPS to kill their health pool, but I’m not specced as a tank/conditioner who can handle them for prolonged peroids. I’m inbetween so I can fight them and keep them distracted without using cheap stealth tricks and the same tatics, but I can’t output my DPS enough to overcome their healing. So in those situations I can ethier keep them distracted so they contribute nothing to their server, I get some back up to help, they get back up, or one of us gets bored/tired and runs off.

The reason Thieves solo so well is because very few people react to them properly, they don’t start trying to read the thief’s intentions, or put any sort of thought into trying to get into the thief’s head. Players who do use their melee weapons to keep on the pressure, because the thief used CnD, they had to be in melee range to land it, the player uses the attack combination of thier weapon to see if the thief is there.
Basically, the thief starts in melee range, when you attack, if you’re doing the combo, you are hitting the thief and running out his stealth timer. Far to few people do this acting more akin to npcs simply dropping thier attack and moving on. They don’t even use the thief’s downtime to ready themselves for the next attack.

Dual.8953:

The reason Thieves solo so well is because very few people react to them properly, they don’t start trying to read the thief’s intentions, or put any sort of thought into trying to get into the thief’s head. Players who do use their melee weapons to keep on the pressure, because the thief used CnD, they had to be in melee range to land it, the player uses the attack combination of thier weapon to see if the thief is there.
Basically, the thief starts in melee range, when you attack, if you’re doing the combo, you are hitting the thief and running out his stealth timer. Far to few people do this acting more akin to npcs simply dropping thier attack and moving on. They don’t even use the thief’s downtime to ready themselves for the next attack.

you are an obvious troll unless you are a tanking guardian using melee to keep the pressure is only gonna work against you, thiefs have several stealths for example thief can just use Steal to shadowstep and backstab you land another skill on you before CnD needless to say traited Steal gives stealth and can deal damage as well then theres the stealth heal and the AoE stealths, so yeah dont talk as if thiefs only use CnD for stealth because that is not the case.also i case you havent noticed with dual pistols thiefs can do 3000-6000 damage with each Unload so melee is very optional at times.

All ANet need to do is make all cloak enabling skills have 20sec cool down when you decloak, and immediately decloak on attack or damage. Thieves wont like it but it’ll save the rest of us the frustration.

Why not just remove the stealth from cloak and dagger and up the vuln to like 10 stacks for 10 seconds.
Stealth remains a powerful tool but it’ll seriously cut down the number of times a thief can stealth.

I do have a level 80 thief that i have spent a good 200+ hours on in wvw. so yes I do understand what a huge nerf this would be. No I don’t think it’ll destroy the thief class at all.

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

Your comment makes me sad as a gamer. Instead of pushing for an evenly balanced set of classes to choose from, you defend a broken mechanic of your favorite class so that you can continue to abuse the advantage it gives.

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

Stealth from C&D is not a core mechanic of the thief. Steal and the utility attacks it has (I know this one isn’t great) and initiative (the amazing flexibility and immunity to the recast increase from chill) are the class mechanics. I think it says something when the off hand dagger is used in almost every build and has become “a core mechanic of the class.”

Personally I think they should just remove the damage from C&D, a utility attack shouldn’t be hitting hard.

purpleskies.3274:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

Stealth from C&D is not a core mechanic of the thief. Steal and the utility attacks it has (I know this one isn’t great) and initiative (the amazing flexibility and immunity to the recast increase from chill) are the class mechanics. I think it says something when the off hand dagger is used in almost every build and has become “a core mechanic of the class.”

Personally I think they should just remove the damage from C&D, a utility attack shouldn’t be hitting hard.

Ugh, if you have Dagger OH. Then Stealth is core in that build.

If you don’t think that Stealth isn’t a core mechanic to a Thief, then I think that you are playing the wrong game.

FourTwenty.4268:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

It just gets so annoying. Every day I log in and see Thief is OP, OMGERD nerf them!

If it isn’t Stealth, then it is Backstab, Heartseeker, Cloak and Dagger, Dancing Dagger, Pistol Whip, Black Powder, Daggerstorm, Basilisk Venom, Thieves Guild, Blinding Powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Scorpion Wire and even our auto attacks.

Everyone complains about every ability we had, it almost seems that if every non-Thief had their way. We would be absolutely useless and in most cases it is simply L2P, Have Stun Breaker or Condition Removal. Every other profession can make an extremely balanced build (you can be tanky and have respectable damage or do good damage and have a decent amount of survivability), but as a Thief you can’t. You either become tanky (using the term loosely) by using Stealth and stacking Toughness and Vitality, in which it takes forever to kill someone 1v1 or you can make a High damage build that has very little survivability.

I agree with you, that I don’t think that the game is being balanced around WvW. IF they did, PvE would be out of control and not challenging in the slightest. I think that the balance changes that we see are based around how the professions perform in PvE and SPvP.

Archonis.7249:

FourTwenty.4268:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

It just gets so annoying. Every day I log in and see Thief is OP, OMGERD nerf them!

If it isn’t Stealth, then it is Backstab, Heartseeker, Cloak and Dagger, Dancing Dagger, Pistol Whip, Black Powder, Daggerstorm, Basilisk Venom, Thieves Guild, Blinding Powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Scorpion Wire and even our auto attacks.

Everyone complains about every ability we had, it almost seems that if every non-Thief had their way. We would be absolutely useless and in most cases it is simply L2P, Have Stun Breaker or Condition Removal. Every other profession can make an extremely balanced build (you can be tanky and have respectable damage or do good damage and have a decent amount of survivability), but as a Thief you can’t. You either become tanky (using the term loosely) by using Stealth and stacking Toughness and Vitality, in which it takes forever to kill someone 1v1 or you can make a High damage build that has very little survivability.

I agree with you, that I don’t think that the game is being balanced around WvW. IF they did, PvE would be out of control and not challenging in the slightest. I think that the balance changes that we see are based around how the professions perform in PvE and SPvP.

I agree with you fully that everyone complains about everything. If thieves get nerfed like everyone wants, then what are we suppose to do? Be a 2 second body shield?

The simple solution is what I posted above. Because everyone whines about stealth but no one seems to use common sense about our stealth abilities. Hate CnD? Kite with a ranged weapon. Hate Shadow Refuge? Do what I said above, we trap ourselves in a small circle for 4 seconds. Hate thieves with a dagger in general? Or even a melee weapon? Learn to kite better.

I love seeing the responses on here about thieves needing a complete nerf on stealth. Reroll as a thief and DO NOT ever use stealth in WvW. See how much it will hinder a thief all together. You people just need to learn a small hammer will break a glass cannon.

Xter.6271:

Archonis.7249:

FourTwenty.4268:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

It just gets so annoying. Every day I log in and see Thief is OP, OMGERD nerf them!

If it isn’t Stealth, then it is Backstab, Heartseeker, Cloak and Dagger, Dancing Dagger, Pistol Whip, Black Powder, Daggerstorm, Basilisk Venom, Thieves Guild, Blinding Powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Scorpion Wire and even our auto attacks.

Everyone complains about every ability we had, it almost seems that if every non-Thief had their way. We would be absolutely useless and in most cases it is simply L2P, Have Stun Breaker or Condition Removal. Every other profession can make an extremely balanced build (you can be tanky and have respectable damage or do good damage and have a decent amount of survivability), but as a Thief you can’t. You either become tanky (using the term loosely) by using Stealth and stacking Toughness and Vitality, in which it takes forever to kill someone 1v1 or you can make a High damage build that has very little survivability.

I agree with you, that I don’t think that the game is being balanced around WvW. IF they did, PvE would be out of control and not challenging in the slightest. I think that the balance changes that we see are based around how the professions perform in PvE and SPvP.

I agree with you fully that everyone complains about everything. If thieves get nerfed like everyone wants, then what are we suppose to do? Be a 2 second body shield?

The simple solution is what I posted above. Because everyone whines about stealth but no one seems to use common sense about our stealth abilities. Hate CnD? Kite with a ranged weapon. Hate Shadow Refuge? Do what I said above, we trap ourselves in a small circle for 4 seconds. Hate thieves with a dagger in general? Or even a melee weapon? Learn to kite better.

I love seeing the responses on here about thieves needing a complete nerf on stealth. Reroll as a thief and DO NOT ever use stealth in WvW. See how much it will hinder a thief all together. You people just need to learn a small hammer will break a glass cannon.

What you mean think? Oh dear lord, we can’t have that.

It is hilarious. I had like 10 people last night chasing me around in WvW. A lot of them had green arrows on them. I ended up killing two of them (before people say ZOMG SEE NERF THEIF, they were wearing their starter armor) before I had gtfo of Dodge. When a Thief goes stealth, it is so funny because people act like you just aren’t there anymore to them Stealth is equal to Alt+F4. I literally was standing in front of someone and he just stood there until my stealth wore off and this Warrior was full exotics, so there shouldn’t be an excuse of not knowing how to play. IF I was a BS thief, not a P/D he would of got blown the kitten up.

Seems like WvW is full of terrible players lately. I am thinking that people are just doing WvW because it is so much quicker to level when running around in a zerg capping kitten, than to play PvE and Story in order to learn your profession. Better yet, hop into some SPvP and get a little more intimate with your knowledge of your profession.

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

I saw a thief take down 20 people in one hit. I mean he just BS them all at once. See how much i believe you with no proof?

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

And I guess both of you play thieves?

Archonis.7249:

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

Rabib.6580:

And I guess both of you play thieves?

I have a lvl80 Ranger,Thief, and guardian. I play my guard the most b/c i actually feel more OP then my thief in WvW.

KensaiZen.3740:

Archonis.7249:

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

If there was 1 Thief and 4 of whatever they are, then culling wouldn’t of been the issue. Unless they broke off from the Zerg to chase a Thief, which is stupid in it own right.

The Reveal debuff is applied to the Thief if any aggressive act is made from Stealth and it lasts 3 secs. Most likely the Thief is going to rely on CnD to re-enter stealth in which a dodge would of denied him of stealth and a well placed CC would of ended his kitten of those 4 poorly skilled players.

Care to tell us how bad you are again?

I swear, do people just mentally lock up when going against a Thief?

Xter.6271:

if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits.

The fact that this is so easy to counter, as you described, is exactly why “smart thieves” don’t do it.

Thieves that do use Shadow Refuge in this way aren’t punished as often as they should be, since the main response to Shadow Refuge is still to immediately forget what was going on and wander off like an NPC.

Rabib.6580:

And I guess both of you play thieves?

I have an 80 Warrior, Ranger, Engineer and Thief.

I think that PvP is so much easier in WvW with my Warrior and Ranger. I think that Engineer need some love though.

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

This isn’t a thing. The fact that people still think it is a thing is one of the main reasons stealth is way more powerful in practice than it is on paper. Stealth (nor culling) prevent getting hit or reduce incoming damage, but since a good portion of the community still doesn’t realize this or doesn’t care, they might as well function that way since people immediately give up the fight upon losing their tab target.

Archonis.7249:

KensaiZen.3740:

Archonis.7249:

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

If there was 1 Thief and 4 of whatever they are, then culling wouldn’t of been the issue. Unless they broke off from the Zerg to chase a Thief, which is stupid in it own right.

The Reveal debuff is applied to the Thief if any aggressive act is made from Stealth and it lasts 3 secs. Most likely the Thief is going to rely on CnD to re-enter stealth in which a dodge would of denied him of stealth and a well placed CC would of ended his kitten of those 4 poorly skilled players.

Care to tell us how bad you are again?

I swear, do people just mentally lock up when going against a Thief?

Don’t forget that a CnD that misses waste a lot of initiative also.

Archonis.7249:

Xter.6271:

Archonis.7249:

FourTwenty.4268:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

It just gets so annoying. Every day I log in and see Thief is OP, OMGERD nerf them!

If it isn’t Stealth, then it is Backstab, Heartseeker, Cloak and Dagger, Dancing Dagger, Pistol Whip, Black Powder, Daggerstorm, Basilisk Venom, Thieves Guild, Blinding Powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Scorpion Wire and even our auto attacks.

Everyone complains about every ability we had, it almost seems that if every non-Thief had their way. We would be absolutely useless and in most cases it is simply L2P, Have Stun Breaker or Condition Removal. Every other profession can make an extremely balanced build (you can be tanky and have respectable damage or do good damage and have a decent amount of survivability), but as a Thief you can’t. You either become tanky (using the term loosely) by using Stealth and stacking Toughness and Vitality, in which it takes forever to kill someone 1v1 or you can make a High damage build that has very little survivability.

I agree with you, that I don’t think that the game is being balanced around WvW. IF they did, PvE would be out of control and not challenging in the slightest. I think that the balance changes that we see are based around how the professions perform in PvE and SPvP.

I agree with you fully that everyone complains about everything. If thieves get nerfed like everyone wants, then what are we suppose to do? Be a 2 second body shield?

The simple solution is what I posted above. Because everyone whines about stealth but no one seems to use common sense about our stealth abilities. Hate CnD? Kite with a ranged weapon. Hate Shadow Refuge? Do what I said above, we trap ourselves in a small circle for 4 seconds. Hate thieves with a dagger in general? Or even a melee weapon? Learn to kite better.

I love seeing the responses on here about thieves needing a complete nerf on stealth. Reroll as a thief and DO NOT ever use stealth in WvW. See how much it will hinder a thief all together. You people just need to learn a small hammer will break a glass cannon.

What you mean think? Oh dear lord, we can’t have that.

It is hilarious. I had like 10 people last night chasing me around in WvW. A lot of them had green arrows on them. I ended up killing two of them (before people say ZOMG SEE NERF THEIF, they were wearing their starter armor) before I had gtfo of Dodge. When a Thief goes stealth, it is so funny because people act like you just aren’t there anymore to them Stealth is equal to Alt+F4. I literally was standing in front of someone and he just stood there until my stealth wore off and this Warrior was full exotics, so there shouldn’t be an excuse of not knowing how to play. IF I was a BS thief, not a P/D he would of got blown the kitten up.

Seems like WvW is full of terrible players lately. I am thinking that people are just doing WvW because it is so much quicker to level when running around in a zerg capping kitten, than to play PvE and Story in order to learn your profession. Better yet, hop into some SPvP and get a little more intimate with your knowledge of your profession.

Wow that was hostile. Clearly you didn’t read my posts. Or you’re just trolling now. I play a thief, I do NOT think we need a major nerf. Just one that takes us out of stealth when we take damage during stealth, or condition damage while in stealth that was NOT prior to stealthing. Would solve a lot of issue. The problem is that no one will try and take down a thief the logical way. They stand in one place and auto attack and face roll their keyboard.

I’ve had my fair share of moments in WvW where I was outnumbered and have killed groups of 3-4 people. Did I abuse my stealth? No. Did I kite, dodge, and use my skill bar to optimize my evades and DPS? Sure did. Doesn’t mean I’m abusing my class mechanics, means I’m using them to the fullest while everyone against me stands almost completely still trying to faceroll the keyboard.

Besides the whole unstealthing when taking damage, thieves are perfectly fine.

Tulisin.6945:

Xter.6271:

if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits.

The fact that this is so easy to counter, as you described, is exactly why “smart thieves” don’t do it.

Thieves that do use Shadow Refuge in this way aren’t punished as often as they should be, since the main response to Shadow Refuge is still to immediately forget what was going on and wander off like an NPC.

I only use Shadow’s Refuge to help pick up allies and as a way to misdirect what I am doing. Most times if you see me using it I usually have HiS up and as soon as I drop it I cast HiS and leave the SR AoE and position myself better for attack or break away from the fight. While people are whiffing at nothing in my Shadow’s Refuge.

People that are trying to use SR to actually fight with are kinda kitten because the enemy knows exactly where you are and all a Warrior has to do is pop Frenzy and 100B and annihilate you while in the AoE or other professions can drop a kitten ton of AoE on it.

Xter.6271:

Honestly i’m sick of seeing the whole thieves are overpowered thing. I play as a thief and I love my thief but we are not that overpowered. We are real squishy in a fight so we have to always be moving and dodging. Yeah, honestly the stealth thing is annoying when trying to kill us, I’ll admit it having 1v1 many thieves. But there is a solution.

Think what a thief does when low on health, he’s going to stealth and retreat, right? Well what’s the first place he’s going to go? Far away from you, in the opposite direction, and if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits. Before he gets that 12 seconds of stealth, he has to stay in that circle for roughly 4 seconds or he gets a debuff called revealed. Means he is forced out of stealth. So he is trapped in his little circle for about 4 seconds right? As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Either way, he never gets far.

That’s actually not quite the way Shadow Refuge (or the revealed debuff) works. Shadow Refuge is a pulsing ability that gives the thief (and anyone else in the circle) 3 seconds of invisibility for each of 5 pulses. The first pulse is instantaneous so the five pulses are complete in 4 seconds. Invisibility stacks in duration, so if the thief stays in the circle for the full 4 seconds he gets a total of 15 seconds of invisibility (4 in the circle and 11 out of it). If he leaves after 3 seconds he has 12 seconds of invisibility, etc. Leaving the circle before the full 4 seconds are up does NOT make him immediately visible … it merely means he will become visible before 15 seconds expire. There is, of course, a trait that can extend all of that for 1 second.

The revealed debuff does not, in spite of what the official Wiki says, turn the player visible. What it does is prevent the player from going invisible again for the duration of the debuff.

Most thieves, if they are really planning to escape, will try to use as much of the invisibility offered by Shadow Refuge as possible, which means they will probably hang around for most of that four seconds. As you say, AoE is the way to go, but surprisingly few enemies use that against me and the ones that do usually quit way before the four seconds are up. If I get caught in a zerg that’s throwing down lots of AoE, though, I’ll often be dead before I ever leave the circle.

Cactus.2710:

That’s actually not quite the way Shadow Refuge (or the revealed debuff) works. Shadow Refuge is a pulsing ability that gives the thief (and anyone else in the circle) 3 seconds of invisibility for each of 5 pulses. The first pulse is instantaneous so the five pulses are complete in 4 seconds. Invisibility stacks in duration, so if the thief stays in the circle for the full 4 seconds he gets a total of 15 seconds of invisibility (4 in the circle and 11 out of it). If he leaves after 3 seconds he has 12 seconds of invisibility, etc. Leaving the circle before the full 4 seconds are up does NOT make him immediately visible … it merely means he will become visible before 15 seconds expire. There is, of course, a trait that can extend all of that for 1 second

If you leave Shadow Refuge, or are forced out of it, prior to the circle disappearing, you immediately appear and become revealed. This makes SR particularly susceptible to pull/knockback skills, since if the thief is removed from the circle they get no stealth from it (returning to the circle immediately gets the healing, but you’re immune to the remaining stealth ticks due to revealed).

Cactus.2710:

Xter.6271:

Honestly i’m sick of seeing the whole thieves are overpowered thing. I play as a thief and I love my thief but we are not that overpowered. We are real squishy in a fight so we have to always be moving and dodging. Yeah, honestly the stealth thing is annoying when trying to kill us, I’ll admit it having 1v1 many thieves. But there is a solution.

Think what a thief does when low on health, he’s going to stealth and retreat, right? Well what’s the first place he’s going to go? Far away from you, in the opposite direction, and if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits. Before he gets that 12 seconds of stealth, he has to stay in that circle for roughly 4 seconds or he gets a debuff called revealed. Means he is forced out of stealth. So he is trapped in his little circle for about 4 seconds right? As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Either way, he never gets far.

That’s actually not quite the way Shadow Refuge (or the revealed debuff) works. Shadow Refuge is a pulsing ability that gives the thief (and anyone else in the circle) 3 seconds of invisibility for each of 5 pulses. The first pulse is instantaneous so the five pulses are complete in 4 seconds. Invisibility stacks in duration, so if the thief stays in the circle for the full 4 seconds he gets a total of 15 seconds of invisibility (4 in the circle and 11 out of it). If he leaves after 3 seconds he has 12 seconds of invisibility, etc. Leaving the circle before the full 4 seconds are up does NOT make him immediately visible … it merely means he will become visible before 15 seconds expire. There is, of course, a trait that can extend all of that for 1 second.

The revealed debuff does not, in spite of what the official Wiki says, turn the player visible. What it does is prevent the player from going invisible again for the duration of the debuff.

Most thieves, if they are really planning to escape, will try to use as much of the invisibility offered by Shadow Refuge as possible, which means they will probably hang around for most of that four seconds. As you say, AoE is the way to go, but surprisingly few enemies use that against me and the ones that do usually quit way before the four seconds are up. If I get caught in a zerg that’s throwing down lots of AoE, though, I’ll often be dead before I ever leave the circle.

No the revealed debuff forces you out of stealth and if you leave Shadow Refuge before the four seconds you get revealed. I know, done it before.

Xter.6271:

Archonis.7249:

Xter.6271:

Archonis.7249:

FourTwenty.4268:

Archonis.7249:

The last two comments just make me sad as a gamer.

Let’s take out the core mechanic of a class because I think that it is too hard and the removal makes it easier for ME.

dont let the bads get to you. i have faith that anet will work on culling before they touch stealth. then they can assess the actual situation.

however, I dont think they’re balancing classes based around WvWvW, and I dont every hear anyone say thieves are OP in spvp or tpvp or even pve. So I think the thieves are safe for now.

It just gets so annoying. Every day I log in and see Thief is OP, OMGERD nerf them!

If it isn’t Stealth, then it is Backstab, Heartseeker, Cloak and Dagger, Dancing Dagger, Pistol Whip, Black Powder, Daggerstorm, Basilisk Venom, Thieves Guild, Blinding Powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Scorpion Wire and even our auto attacks.

Everyone complains about every ability we had, it almost seems that if every non-Thief had their way. We would be absolutely useless and in most cases it is simply L2P, Have Stun Breaker or Condition Removal. Every other profession can make an extremely balanced build (you can be tanky and have respectable damage or do good damage and have a decent amount of survivability), but as a Thief you can’t. You either become tanky (using the term loosely) by using Stealth and stacking Toughness and Vitality, in which it takes forever to kill someone 1v1 or you can make a High damage build that has very little survivability.

I agree with you, that I don’t think that the game is being balanced around WvW. IF they did, PvE would be out of control and not challenging in the slightest. I think that the balance changes that we see are based around how the professions perform in PvE and SPvP.

I agree with you fully that everyone complains about everything. If thieves get nerfed like everyone wants, then what are we suppose to do? Be a 2 second body shield?

The simple solution is what I posted above. Because everyone whines about stealth but no one seems to use common sense about our stealth abilities. Hate CnD? Kite with a ranged weapon. Hate Shadow Refuge? Do what I said above, we trap ourselves in a small circle for 4 seconds. Hate thieves with a dagger in general? Or even a melee weapon? Learn to kite better.

I love seeing the responses on here about thieves needing a complete nerf on stealth. Reroll as a thief and DO NOT ever use stealth in WvW. See how much it will hinder a thief all together. You people just need to learn a small hammer will break a glass cannon.

What you mean think? Oh dear lord, we can’t have that.

It is hilarious. I had like 10 people last night chasing me around in WvW. A lot of them had green arrows on them. I ended up killing two of them (before people say ZOMG SEE NERF THEIF, they were wearing their starter armor) before I had gtfo of Dodge. When a Thief goes stealth, it is so funny because people act like you just aren’t there anymore to them Stealth is equal to Alt+F4. I literally was standing in front of someone and he just stood there until my stealth wore off and this Warrior was full exotics, so there shouldn’t be an excuse of not knowing how to play. IF I was a BS thief, not a P/D he would of got blown the kitten up.

Seems like WvW is full of terrible players lately. I am thinking that people are just doing WvW because it is so much quicker to level when running around in a zerg capping kitten, than to play PvE and Story in order to learn your profession. Better yet, hop into some SPvP and get a little more intimate with your knowledge of your profession.

Wow that was hostile. Clearly you didn’t read my posts. Or you’re just trolling now. I play a thief, I do NOT think we need a major nerf. Just one that takes us out of stealth when we take damage during stealth, or condition damage while in stealth that was NOT prior to stealthing. Would solve a lot of issue. The problem is that no one will try and take down a thief the logical way. They stand in one place and auto attack and face roll their keyboard.

I’ve had my fair share of moments in WvW where I was outnumbered and have killed groups of 3-4 people. Did I abuse my stealth? No. Did I kite, dodge, and use my skill bar to optimize my evades and DPS? Sure did. Doesn’t mean I’m abusing my class mechanics, means I’m using them to the fullest while everyone against me stands almost completely still trying to faceroll the keyboard.

Besides the whole unstealthing when taking damage, thieves are perfectly fine.

I agree with you, silly goose. lol I was being sarcastic.

I was saying that you require people to think and I was being ironic in my initial response.

Xter.6271:

Cactus.2710:

Xter.6271:

Honestly i’m sick of seeing the whole thieves are overpowered thing. I play as a thief and I love my thief but we are not that overpowered. We are real squishy in a fight so we have to always be moving and dodging. Yeah, honestly the stealth thing is annoying when trying to kill us, I’ll admit it having 1v1 many thieves. But there is a solution.

Think what a thief does when low on health, he’s going to stealth and retreat, right? Well what’s the first place he’s going to go? Far away from you, in the opposite direction, and if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits. Before he gets that 12 seconds of stealth, he has to stay in that circle for roughly 4 seconds or he gets a debuff called revealed. Means he is forced out of stealth. So he is trapped in his little circle for about 4 seconds right? As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Either way, he never gets far.

That’s actually not quite the way Shadow Refuge (or the revealed debuff) works. Shadow Refuge is a pulsing ability that gives the thief (and anyone else in the circle) 3 seconds of invisibility for each of 5 pulses. The first pulse is instantaneous so the five pulses are complete in 4 seconds. Invisibility stacks in duration, so if the thief stays in the circle for the full 4 seconds he gets a total of 15 seconds of invisibility (4 in the circle and 11 out of it). If he leaves after 3 seconds he has 12 seconds of invisibility, etc. Leaving the circle before the full 4 seconds are up does NOT make him immediately visible … it merely means he will become visible before 15 seconds expire. There is, of course, a trait that can extend all of that for 1 second.

The revealed debuff does not, in spite of what the official Wiki says, turn the player visible. What it does is prevent the player from going invisible again for the duration of the debuff.

Most thieves, if they are really planning to escape, will try to use as much of the invisibility offered by Shadow Refuge as possible, which means they will probably hang around for most of that four seconds. As you say, AoE is the way to go, but surprisingly few enemies use that against me and the ones that do usually quit way before the four seconds are up. If I get caught in a zerg that’s throwing down lots of AoE, though, I’ll often be dead before I ever leave the circle.

No the revealed debuff forces you out of stealth and if you leave Shadow Refuge before the four seconds you get revealed. I know, done it before.

No if you leave the stealth field before the circle goes away, you don’t get revealed unless you have used one of your weapon abilities. Then you get the revealed debuff.

[/quote]

I agree with you, silly goose. lol I was being sarcastic.

I was saying that you require people to think and I was being ironic in my initial response.[/quote]

Haha ok, hard to tell over the internet!

People don’t think, that’s the problem. They try killing a thief, who has to use dodge, stealth, and evades to survive, by standing still and duking it out.

Archonis.7249:

Rabib.6580:

I just seen thief take down a group of 4 people, first person is down on the first attack, he restealths, the chase is on, cast random ae’s, no luck. Stomps the downed person from stealth (great idea, stomping from stealth). 3 on 1 now, rinse and repeat 3 more times. I counted 6 attacks to my 1, he hit me 6 times from stealth, i got off ONE (1) attack before I was dead. I don’t care if we all suck as players, 1 should never beat 4. Just another reason that WvW is dying, just send 1-2 thieves to the spawn points, and gank people all day long. Ya a really balanced class.

Or you could learn to kittening dodge and CC the Thief and end his shenanigans. You have a 3 sec window to stun, root, or daze him. Then if 3 people can’t burst him down in that time. Just Alt+F4 and Uninstall because this game is too hard for you. Stick to board games, I heard that Axis and Allies is pretty cool.

The biggest problem to this is the lack of knowledge of who he will attack next. You don’t know when the thief will pop up and attack, and you don’t know who he will attack.

This gives the thief a larger chance for kills than you know. He can easily strike when and where he wants, and he has utility skills and traits that will help him be even more formiddable by varying the time of his stealth.

I can’t even count the number of times a stealthed thief has caught me after I’ve wasted a block or a dodge trying to anticipate when he’ll appear. Not to mention he already has me targetted while I have to retarget and then attack him. Retargetting takes time, even the tab-autotarget, and that’s not too reliable if you have multiple enemies you’re fighting.

Even CC doesn’t work too well on a thief, especially when culling comes around. Thieves are susceptible to CC, but there aren’t enough AOE CCs to counter a thief’s mobility and stealth. Simply put, your idea doesn’t work.

It’s hard for most people to counter a thief’s stealth and mobility because they are so formiddable. It’s not the fact that the thief has a weakness, it’s that we can’t exploit the weakness if we can’t see the thief.

Xter.6271:

Learn to kite better.

this!!!! a thousand times this!!!!!

too many people want to face tank them and faceroll 1-5 in hopes that they land on the thief

you want thieves to have to chase you

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

everyone agrees culling needs to be fixed. no thief is denying this

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

everyone agrees culling needs to be fixed. no thief is denying this

Which is why the class is broken. Activating a skill that allows you to have extra stealth intended or not is a broken mechanic.

Being able to outrun every class while stealthed is a broken mechanic.

Being able to do pretty much insta kill on clothes and insane damage to heavies and get a garaunteed get out of jail free class is a broken mechanic.

I understand how thieves should be played and that they need their stealth. But to be able to stealth through out an entire fight is a rubbish mechanic. You have dodges and phasing and teleportations/shadow step as evasion tactics. To add stealth in there is just taking the biscuit.

I think stealth should just be on a much longer cool down. At least this way the thief get their chance to do the assassination style they love to do but the draw back is they have to do it in a certain amount of time without a get out of jail free card. If they fail they can still GTFO of dodge quicker then any class in the game.

I don’t really see the problem with thieves. I don’t really play thief but you have to figure out how a Thief works. You have to get to know their skills and traits. A glass cannon Thief is strong but it is so incredibly vulnerable, a few hit’s and you can down a Thief.

The only defense a Thief has is dodge, blind and cloak (sort of). If you know what skill the Thief used to cloak himself with (which is easy to figure out) you will know where he is and you can still hit him while he is cloaked.

About the stealth stomping. Sure, if you are downed in a 1v1 you will probably won’t be able to survive. But in a multi-fight a stun, daze, knockdown, knock-back skill will just cancel it out. You don’t have to select a target (for the majority of skills) for it to take effect.

It’s a competitive game mode, you shouldn’t just sit back and play lazy, you’ll lose the fight.

You can’t hit what you can’t see that has just run from 0 to 1200 range in 2 seconds. I would understand if they were so slow they were still in viable melee/combat range while in stealth, but to give them super mobility while under stealth is just plain stupid.

Stealth Stomping can be countered, yes. I have saved others from a thief stomp with a blast of my FT or the #4 offhand shield ability of my eng. But that’s the ONLY time where you know exactly where the thief will be.

All other times you don’t know where and when the thief will strike. And this is what people can’t handle. Even experienced players of the game (and other games) on both sides as thief and opponent agree that the theif’s ability to pop in and out so often combined with the burst damage they can do gives too much of an advantage to the thief.

I play an Engineer. I know that some Thieves see me as ‘easy pickins’…

My counter to a Thief?
1. Drink Elixir B for Retaliation, Fury, Might, and Taters
2. Pry Bar to the Face
3. Drop Box of Nails
4. Watch as Thief limps away with 1/4 of his HP left
5. Drop Supply Crate on his kitten
6. Pull out my Wrench and beat him to death with it, while quoting Bane, saying “The Shadows betray you, because they belong to me!”
7. Drink Elixir S, and FINISH HIM as a tiny version of You. Demoralizing.

Of course, this is just one of many counters to a Thief using my Engineer.

The ONLY issue I have with Thief is CULLING. That’s it. No other mechanics issues. None. Zip. Zilch. Nadda.(I’m still learning to play my Thief)

Also, there players who do not know how to play a Thief. These are the Thieves that melt REALLY fast.

I am one of these Thieves. I suck so hard it’s sad.

I am slowly but surely ‘learning to play’. It’s good advice. I’ll roll with it regarding my Thief.

There are also people who know the class, and can play a Darn good Thief. I’ve encountered them and was beaten. Badly. Am I griping about that? Nope. Just gotta adjust my tactics.

Peace!

Cactus.2710:

That’s actually not quite the way Shadow Refuge (or the revealed debuff) works. Shadow Refuge is a pulsing ability that gives the thief (and anyone else in the circle) 3 seconds of invisibility for each of 5 pulses. The first pulse is instantaneous so the five pulses are complete in 4 seconds. Invisibility stacks in duration, so if the thief stays in the circle for the full 4 seconds he gets a total of 15 seconds of invisibility (4 in the circle and 11 out of it). If he leaves after 3 seconds he has 12 seconds of invisibility, etc. Leaving the circle before the full 4 seconds are up does NOT make him immediately visible … it merely means he will become visible before 15 seconds expire. There is, of course, a trait that can extend all of that for 1 second.

The revealed debuff does not, in spite of what the official Wiki says, turn the player visible. What it does is prevent the player from going invisible again for the duration of the debuff.

I hate to admit it, but I was wrong on all of that. The weird thing is that I had tested that before and convinced myself that I could leave the circle before the four seconds were up and not become visible, but I just did it again and popped into view as soon as I did. My sincere apologies for creating confusion.

KensaiZen.3740:

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

everyone agrees culling needs to be fixed. no thief is denying this

Which is why the class is broken. Activating a skill that allows you to have extra stealth intended or not is a broken mechanic.

Being able to outrun every class while stealthed is a broken mechanic.

Being able to do pretty much insta kill on clothes and insane damage to heavies and get a garaunteed get out of jail free class is a broken mechanic.

I understand how thieves should be played and that they need their stealth. But to be able to stealth through out an entire fight is a rubbish mechanic. You have dodges and phasing and teleportations/shadow step as evasion tactics. To add stealth in there is just taking the biscuit.

I think stealth should just be on a much longer cool down. At least this way the thief get their chance to do the assassination style they love to do but the draw back is they have to do it in a certain amount of time without a get out of jail free card. If they fail they can still GTFO of dodge quicker then any class in the game.

So you suggest nerfing Thief because of a bug in culling that affects everyone?

That is so kittening dumb, I don’t even know what to say to you now?

I’ve seen some really good thieves, too. Thieves who don’t need stealth to reduce you to a corpse. A good example is a Sword build with Basilisk Venom and Haste. The guy who had this combo won everytime, and he was good at staying alive versus another one after he speed stomped me.

I know that stealth was meant to be just that. Hidden. They aren’t really thieves more than they are assassins. The only thing that makes them thieves is a steal skill, which doesn’t grant them monetary gain at all. Everything else: assassin.

I also think that certain things should bring a thief out of stealth. If I were putting flames on a hidden/invisible enemy, shouldn’t they catch on fire or at least show a silhouette in the plume of the flames? On top of that, shouldn’t a burning enemy be revealed much easier? If I bleed a hidden/invisible enemy, shouldn’t I be able to see the blood trail they leave (especially if he has greater than 5 stacks of bleeding on him)?

Sporadicus.1028:

I’ve seen some really good thieves, too. Thieves who don’t need stealth to reduce you to a corpse. A good example is a Sword build with Basilisk Venom and Haste. The guy who had this combo won everytime, and he was good at staying alive versus another one after he speed stomped me.

I know that stealth was meant to be just that. Hidden. They aren’t really thieves more than they are assassins. The only thing that makes them thieves is a steal skill, which doesn’t grant them monetary gain at all. Everything else: assassin.

I also think that certain things should bring a thief out of stealth. If I were putting flames on a hidden/invisible enemy, shouldn’t they catch on fire or at least show a silhouette in the plume of the flames? On top of that, shouldn’t a burning enemy be revealed much easier? If I bleed a hidden/invisible enemy, shouldn’t I be able to see the blood trail they leave (especially if he has greater than 5 stacks of bleeding on him)?

I would agree that damage should reveal us, if it wasn’t for how short our stealth is and also the monumental amount of AoE that is easy to throw around. Unless you could trait to reduce the reveal effect through Shadow Art or something.

Archonis.7249:

KensaiZen.3740:

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Actually, you don’t have a 3 second window. The thief is perma invisible due to culling. That or using the move where they Phase out and can’t be hit. That or your already dead.

Which magical 3 second window is this?

everyone agrees culling needs to be fixed. no thief is denying this

Which is why the class is broken. Activating a skill that allows you to have extra stealth intended or not is a broken mechanic.

Being able to outrun every class while stealthed is a broken mechanic.

Being able to do pretty much insta kill on clothes and insane damage to heavies and get a garaunteed get out of jail free class is a broken mechanic.

I understand how thieves should be played and that they need their stealth. But to be able to stealth through out an entire fight is a rubbish mechanic. You have dodges and phasing and teleportations/shadow step as evasion tactics. To add stealth in there is just taking the biscuit.

I think stealth should just be on a much longer cool down. At least this way the thief get their chance to do the assassination style they love to do but the draw back is they have to do it in a certain amount of time without a get out of jail free card. If they fail they can still GTFO of dodge quicker then any class in the game.

So you suggest nerfing Thief because of a bug in culling that affects everyone?

That is so kittening dumb, I don’t even know what to say to you now?

It nulifies the revealed debuff.
It allows thieves to remain perma-invis with ease.
It gives players leaving stealth extra time to get in free hits.

This is why thief is OP right now.

The things that were put in place to stop the thief from doing what it’s doing right now are broken due to bugs. These bugs won’t be dealt with for some time. They need to do a short term fix until the bugs are dealt with.

So yea… it does affect everyone. Just some more than others.

KensaiZen.3740:

Thief are not OP. Their stealth+game engine makes them broken.

Or if you look at it in terms of balance. They have highest damage, highest mobility, AND can go invisible.

There is no negative side of their play style. They can pretty much kill most people as they like because their is not negative to them being high damage or their high mobility or their stealth.

The combination of these three elements is what makes them seem OP when in fact its their stealth ability alone which makes them broken.

They should be moving -75% mobility when in stealth as you have to “sneak” behind someone to back stab them, not sprinting to them. Escape also removes targeting which is pretty powerful as it is combined with their mobility but to be invisible completely and only appearing well out of 1200 range is stupidly powerful. 100% garauntee escape.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses but where is the weakness of a thief?

Stupidly low health pool. Aside from that the system in WvW (Ie rendering/culling) is the real problem. This completely negates the 3s debuff when a Thief breaks stealth to enter combat. If it worked properly then thieves would be way deader. However as a mesmer fighting a thief is something i find challenging. Usually I win unless they pick me off when I am fighting someone else (Which is something Anet did intend) was for thieves to hop around the battle field picking off weaker opponents when they can.

Xter.6271:

The simple solution is what I posted above. Because everyone whines about stealth but no one seems to use common sense about our stealth abilities. Hate CnD? Kite with a ranged weapon. Hate Shadow Refuge? Do what I said above, we trap ourselves in a small circle for 4 seconds. Hate thieves with a dagger in general? Or even a melee weapon? Learn to kite better.

Kite? Really? Have you played other classes and tried this? Since thieves have the best mobility in the game, what class is supposed to be able to this well? Especially when you can’t shoot with your ranged weapon what you cannot see. Especially when you are dead or only have a sliver of health left when and if you do get a chance to see them. Funny stuff.

Now maybe if they made thieves move like 1/4 speed or less when stealthed. Made range of steal like 100 instead of 900. Make all attacks from stealth require being in 100 range or something so they have to remain visible to try to catch up to you. Maybe kiting might work consistently. But again only if you aren’t already dead.

I know it is in a line that is not spec’d for much. But ANET in last patch made it so they could spec for 150% movement while stealthed. Really? Really? This just shows how clueless they are about how overpowered thieves are in WvW and how they are more of a problem everyday.

Thieves have at all. They need to give up something to make the game more balanced before 3/4 of all the players in WvW are thieves. Of course then maybe ANET will finally do something. Do you really want to play the game if it becomes thieves vs thieves all the time?

So make damage lower, stealth weaker, or reduce mobility. Saying they are fine as they are is mind boggling to me. It is like thieves are playing a different game than the rest of us.