Guild Wars 2

I’ve been enjoying WvW for a while now and I may be ready to make the Commander investment. The thing is, I play a Ranger – which is fine with me – but I am curious if the class is perceived by others as conflicting with the Commander status.

What are your thoughts? Is Commander best utilized by heavy armor Warriors and Guardians that can literally lead a group into a fight, or can a backline shooter be a recognized Commander as well? All else being equal, are you more inclined to follow one over the other?

Character class has nothing to do with your ability to lead or tactics. The end.

My thoughts personally? Class doesn’t matter too much. I’ve seen a Necromancer Commander that did a great job, and when I follow a Commander, I don’t put any thought into their class at all.

At the same time, there is something morale boosting about a Guardian/Warrior Commander charging to the frontlines recklessly like a monster into an enemy group. That’s just from my perspective though.

A good commander spends a considerable amount of time commanding and monitoring resources. And a good squad would do well to ensure the survival of their commander.

Profession doesn’t matter so much as role. The problem is some professions are more suited to certain roles. Thieves are great scouts, but a commanding thief doesn’t really get to scout since their map marker will attract people to them. Commanding necessarily forces you into a large-combat centric role, which may not be the way you want to play your profession.

I am a ranger commander. It is a poor decision pick a commander that is that squishy. things that are beefy and can give you time to type are great. Most of the time I spend typing than killing. Rangers do have a plus to stand behind the Zerg but you will need greatsword to move your Zerg forward. IMO best commander warrior or guard.

The good thing about being a more survivable, or even bunker build for a commander is that you can literally lead your forces into battle.

Especially when randoms don’t know/trust you (whether you are a commander or not), if they see people make the jump then they are more likely to follow.

Several times in WvW I’ve participated in a smaller group charging and routing a much larger group. Those cases only worked when either someone with a blue commander icon above their head jumped in, or I was with many guildies and we could lead the randoms in the charge (just by being a larger group).

When you can literally see your allied commander at the tip of the spear thrusting through an enemy force (and not dying), it is a great moral booster.

I am not too familiar with Rangers, but I assume you can make a fairly survivable build with it. A Ranger commander that I used to work with a few times was similarly survivable as my balanced Guardian.

Either way, a dead commander is bad for moral, one that is alive is better for moral. A commander that puts themselves into harms way is better for moral. Being a good commander is about leading randoms and supplying good moral. There is nothing stopping the commander from simply relaying orders from guildies that aren’t using the commander icon. Good orders are needed for a commander, but no one said that they have to be your orders… it helps if the commander is knowledgeable yes, but influencing moral is what the commander icon is really useful for.

Chloe Sakuna.8796:

I am a ranger commander. It is a poor decision pick a commander that is that squishy. things that are beefy and can give you time to type are great. Most of the time I spend typing than killing. Rangers do have a plus to stand behind the Zerg but you will need greatsword to move your Zerg forward. IMO best commander warrior or guard.

I disagree with this completely, on SBI we have a few commanders that are scholar class and they do an excellent job of commanding. Granted they can’t charge into the enemy ranks sword swinging, but being a commander is more about being competent at the job and being strategically and tactically aware of what’s going on.

@ the OP : class doesn’t matter, majority of players who aren’t in a guild group will follow commanders they know to be competent, regardless of their class.

Depends what kind of commander you are. I’m a guardian.

If I go somewhere, people will follow me without thinking much, so I have the freedom to charge and I also have the freedom to retreat. People just follow the dorrito automatically in a zerg.

Any character with survivability has an advantage with the zerg.

That said, not all commanders are zerg commanders. Guild commanders can be any profession, and there are some commanders that run supply and teach newbies how to do it while typing strategically in map chat (with auto run on).

I’ve noticed that those which can move fast(rangers and thieves can) often lead the zerg better. But personally, with Staff, Save Yourselves, and Retreat the Guardian has the best of both worlds.

IMO, its best for a commander to be able to fight on the front lines and lead large groups in battle. I have level 80 ranger, guard and war, also high level on ele and necro. My ranger would be the last one of my chars I’d want to make into a commander. Rangers excel at single target pressure from range. Your front line fighters can’t see you if you are behind them so a ranger isn’t going to be the best at inspiring troops in battle or leading pushes. Guard would be my first choice since they benefit the most from having allies nearby and allies benefit from being near them as well.

Couldn’t care less what class a commander is. I’ve never even though to check that.

I`m an ele commander and not a bunker build, but ranged AOE.

It does help to be tough, so i do tend to get downed a fair bit, but by contast, i can see a problem, like a cannon, or seige weapon and deal with it myself rather than having to rely on others to do it. There are ups and downs.

After playing a Guardian Commander for so long I would have to say that bunker builds are often advantageous to leading WvW. Charging an enemy group and taking them by surprise (while taking advantage of player culling) is fairly important.. and PuG players are far more likely to jump into the fray when they see their commander in the midst of it. If the commander hangs back, a lot of other people will too.. and then you end up with a prolonged battle where you should have rolled right over your opponent.

Survivability helps me get behind enemy lines to attack entrenched siege positions, hold choke points where necessary, get better vantage points, stay on siege weapons for much longer, etc. Two extra shots with that ballista can make a big difference.

There’s nothing wrong with a Ranger commander.. you just have to play a bit differently from classes which have front-line survivability. And you need to rely on in-game chat a little bit more

If you consider playing your commander char as your main, you should pick a class that you are most happy with. Though as far as WvW goes, currently there are a few classes that are simply superior because of their tool set (the other profs are just grunts). The following classes can do everything every other prof can do that can contribute to the war’s outcome, plus the following perks:

1. Thief
No not the instajib roamers. Survival thieves with stealth, allows you to do tactical strikes behind enemy lines, contest waypoints, stalk and track major zerg movements, basically any covert or black ops. Also to never die, because dying as a commander is ugly.

2. Mesmer
The second covert/black ops character, this one comes with logistics – portal. Abuse it, abuse it often.

3. Elementalist
Not sure if these will ever be fixed, but dragon tooth can nuke sieges you have no line of sight to, and swirling wind can completely negate siege projectiles. Super mobile, and can lay down pretty hefty artillery fire themselves. Currently the best backbone for siege warfare.

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That said, as a commander it’s okay as long as you’re leading, there’s no ideal profession, you don’t actually have to do any fighting or anything if it’s not your leading style. So just pick what you feel best.

Honestly I dont even know the classes of any of the commanders outside my guild. It doesnt matter at all so long as they are doing a good job of commanding our forces.

That being said. You should be far more concerned with weather of not your server needs another commander. 100g really isnt a large enough requirement for the tag. Im sure our server is not the only one that has issues with massively inexperienced players putting on tags and acting like that know what theyre doing. Which of course can cause issues when your trying to get things organized.

I think part of it has to do with perception of what a leader should be doing. Normally you want your leader to be smart and tactical and wise and be someone you can believe you could follow into battle knowing what they guide you to do will lead to success or put you in a good position to win.

However, being the game that this is….it often means more it seems to see a commander who may or may not even be the brightest or best tactical leader; instead charging face first into a mob of enemies and facerolling them…and ideally not dying in the process.

Which leads to the difference of opinion of what people are looking for in a commander and what their role should be. I say personally any profession can be a commander and your role can be different depending on what class you are.

So say a thief is commander…your role can be assisting in roaming…cutting off supplies…gorilla tactics,etc….a warrior commander can be a frontline assault person…guardian tower/keep defense…..ranger siege assist ( what i do personally being a glass longbow user ), etc.

So I think the role can change depending on the class so you dont feel gimped into a role that doesnt even suit your classes strengths. I mean theirs many facets to WvW so there’s no logical way to imply that all commanders should do is charge into battle headlong and kill people…the other portions of WvW are there…so utilize them and let your class kinda help aid that area your assisting in.

So basically…if your a thief…dont go charging into battle like a moron just cuz your a commander….lead in a way or a group that sticks to your strengths and people that wish to follow you for your role will.

Sera.9750:

I think part of it has to do with perception of what a leader should be doing. Normally you want your leader to be smart and tactical and wise and be someone you can believe you could follow into battle knowing what they guide you to do will lead to success or put you in a good position to win.

However, being the game that this is….it often means more it seems to see a commander who may or may not even be the brightest or best tactical leader; instead charging face first into a mob of enemies and facerolling them…and ideally not dying in the process.

Which leads to the difference of opinion of what people are looking for in a commander and what their role should be. I say personally any profession can be a commander and your role can be different depending on what class you are.

So say a thief is commander…your role can be assisting in roaming…cutting off supplies…gorilla tactics,etc….a warrior commander can be a frontline assault person…guardian tower/keep defense…..ranger siege assist ( what i do personally being a glass longbow user ), etc.

So I think the role can change depending on the class so you dont feel gimped into a role that doesnt even suit your classes strengths. I mean theirs many facets to WvW so there’s no logical way to imply that all commanders should do is charge into battle headlong and kill people…the other portions of WvW are there…so utilize them and let your class kinda help aid that area your assisting in.

So basically…if your a thief…dont go charging into battle like a moron just cuz your a commander….lead in a way or a group that sticks to your strengths and people that wish to follow you for your role will.

This is not only worded very well, the information is sound. Be the Commander you’re capable of being, and use the tools laid out via your profession. Trying to put a square block in a round hole isn’t going to help you or the group of people who choose to follow you. I’m not saying to stick to one thing and rinse and repeat either though. Play to your advantages, make moves with the group in that way, stick to your guns, and you cannot go wrong.

Some classes are more suited to leading in smaller group scenarios.. and smaller groups have less need for a commander icon (in my opinion). From that you could argue that a Guardian is more suited to commanding than a Thief.. but obviously it’s not that simple.

It’s important to keep in mind that WvW requires many, many leaders. But it does NOT require many, many commanders. In order to shepherd players properly you can’t have 8 different blue icons running around the map, even though you may need 8 distinct groups of varying sizes to perform the necessary tasks.

I am a glass cannon mesmer commander on SBI. I ALWAYS lead the fights first and foremost, do not lead if your not first. I also think though that if you play any squishy class front lines you must change your build to suit that set up and be able to go in and out of large scale fights. Any class can command you just have to do it right.

Air.6452:

A good commander spends a considerable amount of time commanding and monitoring resources. And a good squad would do well to ensure the survival of their commander.

Sometimes me and a few others in my party just focus on the enemy commander. If you kill him you can break the enemy more easily lol. It’s kinda weird that often people don’t help their commander, they just let him die.

If you’re a squishy commander I think you’ll sometimes give your group the wrong impression. If you die easily, you’ll want to back off sometimes in a fight to heal, before going back in. The people following you might see this backing off as a retreat and they as well will back off, when maybe that’s not what you want them to do. And if you die you’ll confuse your allies. They will often not know what to do and start to scatter. The decision whether to push through and possibly die or back off and heal is harder in that situation.

It’s a little different if you’re on voice-chat with your group, but if you’re leading PUGs it’s probably a better idea to have a more tanky commander.

It depends on the situation, but in general you’re probably better off with a more tanky commander, although you can be a good commander without having a tanky character. I’ve seen them.

Wow – it’s great to see so much intelligent, diverse, and informative feedback. This really has me thinking now as to whether or not I want to use my Ranger for this specific role.

I agree that there’s no singular right profession for Commander and that there’s plenty of room for different play types and leadership styles.

With that in mind, it sounds as though the emphasis would need to be on speed and survivability. So for a Ranger, something like 0-15-30-20-5 trait allocation may work well, yes?

I do think that “perma-swiftness” or the ability to self-swift (and swift others) to a high degree is an advantage to a commander that drives point.

Speed is a style element. That said, slow moving commanders face more challenges with faster moving pugs than fast moving commanders.

Other than that, know your class and play your class well. If you choose to run a glass build, then either face the challenges of downing a lot on the field or find ways to mitigate the risk of your death — a commander that is constantly running people around because (perception) s/he keeps dying and calling a WP rally is going to lose respect.

On the other hand, when there are total wipes and the only person left standing is the commander and s/he can go around and rez everyone and reverse an apparent group wipe — powerful leadership mojo to be had if handled heroically and humbly.

Ranger is completely viable as commander. My server has some great ones. Yes, you do want a survivable build so you can be at the front leading.

An excellent choice for Rangers is 0/0/30/10/30, stacking tough, vit (I prefer PVT gear, but a mix of clerics/knights/carrion is good too), and healing/regen runes (I use Dwayna). Very “bunker” worthy, along with decent DPS and a supercharged pet from 30 points in BM.

I’ve been running the build for a couple months never ever desiring to switch to anything else. In my opinion, it’s that good.

For details, check out:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-PvP-Bunker-Build/first#post976960

Before investing in gear you can always sample the build in sPvP. Have fun!

my 2c
Whats more important than class is the people you surround yourself as a Commander, Having 5-10 guild mates with the same guild tag around a commander makes that commander so much more powerfull and easier to follow. Commander buff is a rally point, its not based on the individuals class, as it is based on the tactics, positioning, smarts and support that the commander has. I’ve seen glass cannon commanders running in surrounded by guild mates. Having a central “ball” gives your friendlies a nice large footprint to rally to.

I love the quote “A chain is only as strong as its weakest link”
In GW2 – “A commander s only as strong as its weakest asset” where assests are more than just a class, its your tactics, humility, support structure, wisdom, and all other leadership skills along with having a strong core base of ‘right hand men/women’

As a Ranger commander myself, there is nothing better than flanking a group on a door, etc., by swooping in and aoe rooting everyone in place for the people following me. With balanced gear I can take hits and deal decent dmg, using the 6 sec immune when everyone turns on me and swooping out to the back lines to recover while swapping to the bow. It’s been mentioned before but, when commanding, your own movements with the icon is the most important followed by simple commands. You’ll be too busy assessing information to focus on damage yourself for the most part. If anything you should have plans with your spec to dive in to initiate the fight if need be, if only for a moment. People see the icon engage and follow suit. I’ve led everything from roaming zergs to small scale supply and divergent strikes. Granted i can’t sit on the frontline, however it frees me to rally those in the back and assess where a secondary flank may press them back. Even with a handful, you can turn large numbers to break or route if done properly. Use that mobility!

nice thread, some pretty good discussion and information.

I never really had the urge to be a commander but if the time came when I wanted to be then I’ll reference this thread

Firihel.7590:

With balanced gear I can take hits and deal decent dmg, using the 6 sec immune when everyone turns on me and swooping out to the back lines to recover while swapping to the bow.

What’s that about 6 seconds of immunity? Can someone elaborate on or rephrase that?

@OP,
Profession doesn’t mean you can or will be a good or bad commander.

I myself am a Elementalist commander, I know Guardians, Thieves, Rangers, and more who are all also commanders. It’s based off leading into victory overall, and earning respect from your server as a commander.

The other day I found out I’ve gained the rep as a slightly b*tchy commander, who gets stuff done. Mainly due to logging in, assigning positions, duties, scouts, and such. (Even have new SoR members come on ts, or whisper me asking me to come into WvW when I go out to sleep, ect…)
I do also lead into the field, and such sometimes I die, others I don’t. Though even if I die, the SoR Rallians I play with don’t back off, and don’t get demoralized either.

It’s more of a “are you willing to put time and work” into being a commander then what class you play. Once you get a commander tag, and start leading, you’ll more then likely feel more of a duty to stay up late, wake early, be on, lead more, ect… then when you don’t have one. You will more then likely put in more effort, thought, watch maps more, study the enemy more, and need to retain more WvW information then non commanders. If/Once you gain a positive rep, you will be looked up to by non commanders and commanders alike, and need to work well with your server.

A commander tag is not just a blue shiny icon. If you want to be respected as a commander you have to work at it, win or lose, you slowly gain respect or not depending on how you handle situations, people, teaching players, ect…

ClaraFee.2579:

Firihel.7590:

With balanced gear I can take hits and deal decent dmg, using the 6 sec immune when everyone turns on me and swooping out to the back lines to recover while swapping to the bow.

What’s that about 6 seconds of immunity? Can someone elaborate on or rephrase that?

Signet of stone when traited provides the effect, except to condition dmg. With signet of the wild you’re able to remove all conditions on yourself such as immobilize to swoop out.

Engineers are pretty rare and hardly recognized as a class, but even they can be commanders. Bunker engineers put out pretty negligible damage, but they can certainly run into a zerg and live long enough to have their group engage in combat, living through that as well.

Rangers can actually reduce damage better than any other profession, the problem is it’s avoidance and not very reliable. Rangers actually make great Commanders specced into their tanking tree.

Speccing 30 points into Marksman will give you 10 seconds of Stability from Wild (as well as greatly increased damage) and 6 seconds of invuln from Signet of Stone.
You can trait into 2 seconds of Protection on dodge roll.
Pet can absorb first CC on you with Shared Anguish, giving you enough time to use your Wild or Rampage if you are caught by surprise.
Sword/Dagger grants you 3 different evades. The cooldowns on these skills are fairly low. Sword is a bit bulky though, but if you can learn to disable the autoattack before you roll you should be okay.
Greatsword evades every 3rd attack. Couple this with Ranger quickness (5 points Beastmastery + QZ) and you have massive damage avoidance.
You have good sustain with Healing Spring, GS and Sword Leap in Spring, and Wild’s Passive. You can use HP regen food for more sustain. Allies can further heal you with whirls and blast finishers.
Rampage As One grants you 20 seconds of Stability.
Your condition removal is the best (or second best, eles might have a tad bit more) in the game with Empathic Bond and Healing Spring. As long as your pet is alive it’s nearly impossible to keep conditions on you.
You have decent mobility with the GS Leap, Rampage As One swiftness, and Warhorn (if you equip one) swiftness.
Counterattack gives you 3 seconds of block as long as nobody attacks you in melee range. The downside is the slow knockback animation can get you killed.

Downsides of tanking with Ranger:

The above mentioned counterattack. A melee class leaping on you can ruin your day.
Low base health along with avoidance based means you can be burst down if someone happens to get good hits on you while you aren’t evading.
Medium armor requires you to stack toughness on a lot of your gear to reach the cap before DR (3000 armor or around 1900 toughness with signet of stone) so you can’t invest in crit and crit damage.
Your damage is almost non-existent.
GS requires you to be in melee range of a target to evade, which can be tricky sometimes since you lack good slows/immobilizes in a typical signet tank build.
Relies on long cooldowns.
Your pet is squishy and it dying greatly reduces your tanking effectiveness (no Empathic Bond, longer cooldown on pet swap quickness).

fishergrip.4082:

IMO, its best for a commander to be able to fight on the front lines and lead large groups in battle. I have level 80 ranger, guard and war, also high level on ele and necro. My ranger would be the last one of my chars I’d want to make into a commander. Rangers excel at single target pressure from range. Your front line fighters can’t see you if you are behind them so a ranger isn’t going to be the best at inspiring troops in battle or leading pushes. Guard would be my first choice since they benefit the most from having allies nearby and allies benefit from being near them as well.

^ this.

I’ve gotten used to extremely tanky necromancers as commanders on my server. Even when you get beaten, it’s nice to see the commander go out the last.

Well personally I’m a ranger and I’m a commander. I don’t overuse the icon, but often forget it’s “on”.

The key thing with being a commander is communication. Whether you’re using a voice system or not, you still have to be vocal on your /T chat (plus that red makes people read it more often). Once they fix /T however, you might want to use /M again. Anyways, the next big thing a commander has to have is mettle. You can’t turn that thing on and then 5 mins later decide you’ve had enough. Whether commander’s realize it or not, your team expects you to run them around a map in either a zerg or a coordinated attack group for longer than a kid with ADD. Next up, responsibility. You’re going to have to take a lot of heat for failed attempts of taking things. Kind of like the captain going down with the ship, it’s your fault (or not) as to what happens with your zerg or attack group. Not everyone is going to like you, but some will love you.

I’d recommend putting an investment into siege as well. Carry no less than the amount of siege on you that you plan on taking objectives with. If you’re planning on taking 5 towers that night, make sure you have no less than 10 rams, 5 carts, 2 balista, 4 catapults. If you’re planning on commanding for several hours expect to spend no less than 5g a night on siege or the equivalent in badges for siege. And always, always, make sure you and your now friendly zerg group have supplies. Camps before objectives, etc and so forth.

Good Luck with your commander endeavors.