Guild Wars 2

Smitten.3076:

It’s fairly simply, confusion is out of hand. No one wants it useless, just more balanced. There needs to be a trade-off if a cleanse isn’t readily available. in your build or on cooldown. You can take an action , but it’s going to cost you … currently the cost is disproportionate. 5k damage being on the extreme side, but more generally 3k for any action besides inaction. ( when cleanses are on cooldown or not available )

It’s easy , either Anet nerfs it or Confusion bombers become as prevalent as D/D Ele’s, imagine that for awhile … the only viable small man teams consisting of : D/D Ele’s, Thieves, Confusion Bombers and the token tank. How wonderfully diverse the playing field is. ( obvious generalization is obvious )

P.S : Confusion bomb builds are cheese.

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Smitten.3076:

It’s easy , either Anet nerfs it or Confusion bombers become as prevalent as D/D Ele’s, imagine that for awhile … the only viable small man teams consisting of : D/D Ele’s, Thieves, Confusion Bombers and the token tank. How wonderfully diverse the playing field is. ( obvious generalization is obvious )

P.S : Confusion bomb builds are cheese.

Cut the rest of your post because it’s already been addressed ad nauseum.

Confusion builds becoming fotm? Is that what you’re talking about? That’s funny – confusion as it stands now has been around for quite some time, just that the OP felt like he got unjustly owned by it recently. If we were in danger of nothing but confusion mesmers, don’t you think it would have happened already?

It’s not like confusion was buffed recently or anything. Also, if you scroll up a few posts, you’ll see a JQ Havoc Squad guy explain exactly why they DON’T take confusion mesmers.

purpleskies.3274:

Untraited the ele/engineer/necro/guardian have the best and most access to cures. If you trait these become even better at curing but untraited they are very strong already.

Nah, you are wrong about the ele. The condition removal isn’t great untraited. It is the traiting that makes them better at it than most though for sure. Look at cool downs and take into consideration attunement switches as well before considering them good at condition removal out of the box.

If there’s enough confusion on you for it to do over 3k per tick then the mesmer has already blown over half their confusion on you. Any more stacks of confusion then you’re clearly doing something wrong (such as killing clones).

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

10 stacks of confusion does 2800 damage tickets. 15 stacks, 4200.

To get that many stacks in the first place, you have to be doing something wrong. Even traited, a mesmer using Cry of Frustration plus scepter #3 can only get 11 stacks on you. That by itself blows 50% of confusion potential already.

Condition cleanse that, and what else does the mesmer have?

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Dr Acula.3496:

Smitten.3076:

It’s fairly simply, confusion is out of hand. No one wants it useless, just more balanced. There needs to be a trade-off if a cleanse isn’t readily available. in your build or on cooldown. You can take an action , but it’s going to cost you … currently the cost is disproportionate. 5k damage being on the extreme side, but more generally 3k for any action besides inaction. ( when cleanses are on cooldown or not available )

It’s easy , either Anet nerfs it or Confusion bombers become as prevalent as D/D Ele’s, imagine that for awhile … the only viable small man teams consisting of : D/D Ele’s, Thieves, Confusion Bombers and the token tank. How wonderfully diverse the playing field is. ( obvious generalization is obvious )

P.S : Confusion bomb builds are cheese.

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

And …

Your whole post reads as " I’m a bad player, therefore I must hold onto my cheese build rather than actually learn to play a balanced build "

See what I did there?

In answer to your second question : Fotm , as we saw the rise of the D/D Ele .. prepare yourselves.

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

It amazes me how there is a different profession or profession mechanic that a vocal minority is complaining about each week on these forums. It seems some people would be happy if this game only had one profession that only had a single autoattack with no other abilities.

There is plenty of personal and ally condition removal in game to deal with the low duration confusion stacks. I am really curious what type of builds that ones complaining about confusion stacks are playing? Glass cannons?

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

I am really curious what type of builds that ones complaining about confusion stacks are playing? Glass cannons?

Because toughness and armor matter when taking condition damage, right?

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

If someone stacks purely condition damage to get 2000 (not even sure if that’s possible even with full rabid, undead runes, food, and tuning crystals) then the only thing you’d have to worry about is that condition damage. The physical damage would be laughable at most so waiting out the condition damage would actually then be practical.

Which incidentally would make that a L2P issue.

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

Confusion is probably the few remnants of the GW1 Mesmer. Retaliation was more monk-ish.

But really, if you played in the previous game, you would know that Mesmers there were much more controlling then they are now

Heijincks.9267:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

If someone stacks purely condition damage to get 2000 (not even sure if that’s possible even with full rabid, undead runes, food, and tuning crystals) then the only thing you’d have to worry about is that condition damage. The physical damage would be laughable at most so waiting out the condition damage would actually then be practical.

Which incidentally would make that a L2P issue.

Your words, not mine: “assuming the mesmer went all out condition”

Things would just be so much easier for people to swallow their pride and admit it when they are wrong. I do when I’m end up being wrong about something.

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

If someone stacks purely condition damage to get 2000 (not even sure if that’s possible even with full rabid, undead runes, food, and tuning crystals) then the only thing you’d have to worry about is that condition damage. The physical damage would be laughable at most so waiting out the condition damage would actually then be practical.

Which incidentally would make that a L2P issue.

Your words, not mine: “assuming the mesmer went all out condition”

Things would just be so much easier for people to swallow their pride and admit it when they are wrong. I do when I’m end up being wrong about something.

Are you really going to make a comeback based on semantics? It doesn’t change my point.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

But also do keep in mind that confusion is considered impractical for use in sPvP.

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

It’s almost like Anet didn’t balance WvW for 5v5 or 8v8…

EnRohbi.2187:

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

It’s almost like Anet didn’t balance WvW for 5v5 or 8v8…

B/c 5v5, 8v8, or small scale fights do not happen in WvW…oh wait you’re a mesmer….

From what I’ve seen in fighting condition/confusion mesmers, is that most aren’t running with 2000+ condition. I’ve never been hit by a single stack of confusion for 420 damage. Usually it’s between 250-350(tops) per stack. These numbers are a far cry from 2000 condition.

Also people seem to forget that these all-out confusion mesmers pretty much can’t kill you if you just run away. Their regular attacks do very little damage, and you can just wait out the confusion stacks (they don’t last forever, we’re talking only a few seconds tops).

If you see you have 12 stacks on, you just run away and watch as they dissipate, when you only have 3-4 left, then heal up. Glamour skills are on a huge cooldown, and cry of frustration is on 22cd even with 30 into illusions.

Again, when I play a condition mesmer I find that it’s very effective against inexperienced players, or those who aren’t expecting it (the food should be a giveaway). But against a competent opponent, a confusion mesmer can’t kill them.

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

30 in Chaos and Illusions, with Undead runes, and Rabid amulet gives 1500 in sPvP. Not an optimal build of course.

Heijincks.9267:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

If someone stacks purely condition damage to get 2000 (not even sure if that’s possible even with full rabid, undead runes, food, and tuning crystals) then the only thing you’d have to worry about is that condition damage. The physical damage would be laughable at most so waiting out the condition damage would actually then be practical.

Which incidentally would make that a L2P issue.

2000 is easily possible, that said a good condition build is built on more than just condition damage

EnRohbi.2187:

skupuz.6940:

Oozo.7856:

Heijincks.9267:

The formula for confusion is this:
PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

At level 80, and assuming the mesmer went all out condition and has 1000 condition damage, each stack does 280 damage.

Not bad. You are only off by about 1000 condition damage in your calculations. Put in 2000 condition damage and run your numbers again.

PvE and WvW: 10 + (1.5 * Level) + (0.15 * Condition Damage) per stack

sPvP: 65 + (0.075 * Condition Damage) per stack

Assumes the Mesmer went full condition in sPvP and WvW (2000 condition vs 1300 condition)

WvW:
Stacks
1 =430
3=1290
6 =2580
9 =3870
12=5190

sPvP: 1
Stacks
1=162
3= 487
6=975
9=1462
12=1970

Due to food, gear, crystal, etc stats tend to a lot higher in WvW than sPvP.

5190/1970 = 263% more damage than what Anet considers balance in 5vs5 and 8v8…

It’s almost like Anet didn’t balance WvW for 5v5 or 8v8…

It’s more like Anet places a higher priority on sPvP and PvE balance than WvW balance.

Funny thing is if they nerf confusion many condition mesmers will switch to shatter builds, (which are arguably more effective), than the forums will be full of people whining about the influx of mesmers that instagib them where they have no chance of escaping, instead of getting instagibbed from confusion (where they actually have a chance to live if they just stop spamming skills).

For those complaining about confusion in group fights, where you are relegated to not attacking anything for a few seconds which supposedly means death, (if you replace that confusion mesmer with any glass cannon build you would just be straight dead without having to worry about those few seconds of not attacking).

Rename this thread to “Nerf all Skills”

I don’t even use a Mesmer and I have no issues with the confusion. L2P people. Same goes for most other complaints.

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

I request a nerf of auto-seeking 4k spammable leap finisher combo attacks on thieves plz.

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Rofl, I knew it, you are kitten you lost to us, especially our 1 confusion mesmer who probably ruined your world. I hope to see you tonight.

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

Then by the logic of this thread, your guild must be nerfed!!

Getting back on track, there is nothing wrong with the damage output of confusion. Like a full stack of high ticking bleeds, it does good damage. But, that is no call for a nerf. It is fine the way it is.

Archer.1658:

Rofl, I knew it, you are kitten you lost to us, especially our 1 confusion mesmer who probably ruined your world. I hope to see you tonight.

Group != Guild

Yes, confusion mesmers are really OP. They don’t have a hard counter at all.

Man, I’m glad that Mesmers are the only class that Thieves can hit that hard…

Er, wait a second…

Serious question, how do people complaining about confusion deal with a condition necro, rogue or even rarely warrior? And why are 10-20 bleeds doing 1200-2400 per tick (every 1 second) which can last for at least 10 seconds (twice that of confusion) much easier to deal with? Not even counting poisons which hurt and reduce healing and burning, both of which can be done in addition to bleeds? And unlike confusion there isn’t a hard counter of just stop spamming buttons?

There seems to be a general hatred of condition removal by some people on this thread because you might get the wrong condition or it doesn’t work with your spec, or your class isn’t great at it ect. So how do you deal with these attacks and not die, especially from classes that can maintain these easily or spread them like a necro? And why don’t the counters to these conditions work for confusion?

Oozo.7856:

Saturn.6591:

Edit: I play WvW and I also sometimes jump into PvP. I don’t remember that I ever died while having confusion on me.

So, you’ve never been hit with a stack of confusion at low health where even trying to heal yourself kills you? You don’t PvP much I take it. :P

You are at 2K health, just don’t do anything for 5 seconds!

You would have been flat out dead if he just decided to Mind Wrack you instead :/

I mean he hit you with an attack when you were at 2k health and didn’t kill you.
You should almost be thanking him for a chance to cleanse, heal, and fight back…

Oozo.7856:

Saturn.6591:

Edit: I play WvW and I also sometimes jump into PvP. I don’t remember that I ever died while having confusion on me.

So, you’ve never been hit with a stack of confusion at low health where even trying to heal yourself kills you? You don’t PvP much I take it. :P

You are at 2K health, just don’t do anything for 5 seconds!

trying to heal is not killing u that is a lie! Dodging will hurt u if your dodge has a trait attached to it. the worst dmg u will get is when u zerg. I died to AVTR like 20 times before and never thought this needed to be nerfed. My confusion/shatterbuild would get me into trouble when facing them.

Glamour mesmers are very effective vs zergs, but in 1v1 it is way harder for me than with my previous builds due to long cooldowns.
So, the OP obviously was facing a few of us glamour mesmers. Little hint, mindless zergs that just run in and destroy, will get destroyed by a glamour group instantly. If a group has good push tactics, they’ll still get dmg, but the same dmg that any other class would deal too.

Another thing though which i think u don’t understand. It is not just 1 glamour filed at the time. Each glam mesmer puts down 2 fields(in my case 3+ the 2 portals that are glamourfields) plus hounds of baltazar(cond dmg too)), now imagine 5 to 10 glam mesmers doing that to a big, mindless zerg…..BOOOM!

A definition of confusion
confusion
n
1. the act of confusing or the state of being confused
2. disorder; jumble
3. bewilderment; perplexity
4. To control a Zerg
confusional adj

I would like to see
. all theifs armed with Plastic Daggers cus they hurt me to much
. all necros only be able to summon unicorns
. all eles to use love rainbows
ECT
Do I really need to go on it’s a skill we have and we use just don’t blow your condition removel to soon.

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

Um, I wasn’t talking about you. You aren’t running a gank group (as I define it) since you are running with guardians and necros and such. I consider you a balanced group and the best group we have faced when all of your people are there. There are a couple of other small groups on EB who run a lot of thieves and mesmers (and that’s mostly it) and are GC. Those are the ones we have steamrolled not you. How could you even think I was talking about your group?

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

Um, I wasn’t talking about you. You aren’t running a gank group (as I define it) since you are running with guardians and necros and such. I consider you a balanced group and the best group we have faced when all of your people are there. There are a couple of other small groups on EB who run a lot of thieves and mesmers (and that’s mostly it) and are GC. Those are the ones we have steamrolled not you. How could you even think I was talking about your group?

My appologies man. I made an assumption which of course made an kitten out of myself. This thread has mostly devolved into flaming and personal attacks, and I took your comment that way.

Edit: I also was unsure as to how you would define a gank group since plenty of people seem to like to define it differently. Again man, I appologize for the snappy remark.

I admit I did not read through the whole thread, but a couple of points.

1. Confusion was never nerfed in sPvP. sPvP Confusion is the original. Confusion was buffed in PvE and WvW.

2. Confusion can only be applied in bursts. A Mesmer cannot reapply a full Confusion burst right after you cleanse one. The main Mesmer Confusion skill is the Shatter Cry of Frustration, which is on a 20 – 30s CD.

3. Because of point 2, Confusion is one of the most vulnerable conditions to condition removal. If you suspect you are up against a condition Mesmer, save your condition removal for that inevitable Confusion burst.

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

Um, I wasn’t talking about you. You aren’t running a gank group (as I define it) since you are running with guardians and necros and such. I consider you a balanced group and the best group we have faced when all of your people are there. There are a couple of other small groups on EB who run a lot of thieves and mesmers (and that’s mostly it) and are GC. Those are the ones we have steamrolled not you. How could you even think I was talking about your group?

My appologies man. I made an assumption which of course made an kitten out of myself. This thread has mostly devolved into flaming and personal attacks, and I took your comment that way.

Understandable, I should have been clearer. So, that was partly my fault. I think this thread has run it’s course for me at least. I don’t hold anything against people I disagree with as long as they are coming with intelligent counterarguments.

With many more of these threads it is going to get to the point where apparently everything needs to be nerfed if you listen to bad players, if that is the case why nerf anything? Everything can be strong… l2p.

Embolism.8106:

I admit I did not read through the whole thread, but a couple of points.

1. Confusion was never nerfed in sPvP. sPvP Confusion is the original. Confusion was buffed in PvE and WvW.

2. Confusion can only be applied in bursts. A Mesmer cannot reapply a full Confusion burst right after you cleanse one. The main Mesmer Confusion skill is the Shatter Cry of Frustration, which is on a 20 – 30s CD.

3. Because of point 2, Confusion is one of the most vulnerable conditions to condition removal. If you suspect you are up against a condition Mesmer, save your condition removal for that inevitable Confusion burst.

Doesn’t that make Confusion the best offensive, best defensive, and best crowd control ability in the game?

1) If you get 10+ stacks on you, and you do something, you die.
2) If you get 10+ stacks on you, and you do nothing, you have been effectively CCd.
3) If you get 10+ stacks on you, and you do nothing, and others are hitting you, you die.
4) You get 25 stacks of bleed on you, but you’re saving your condition removal, because god forbid you use your condition removal to clear those 25 stacks of bleed, and someone immediately puts 10+ stacks of confusion on you.

That is a pretty potent ability. I’m glad I play a Mesmer.

Can we please close this pointless thread, its L2P. Simple.

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Oozo.7856:

Dr Acula.3496:

Try not to sound quite so bitter, and having condi removal on CD is part of the game… just like having abilities that provide confusion on CD….

That whole post essentially looks like this, “I died to confusion, and rather than learn to work around the fact that confusion exists in the game and will be applied to me at one point or another, it should be nerfed.”

Also, confusion builds aren’t new, D/D Ele’s aren’t new, and Thieves and the things they do aren’t new to this game. So why aren’t we seeing these groups running around everywhere composed of what I am deciding to call, “The Three Amigos” right now?

Hrm, actually a lot of gank groups and dueling heros use mesmers, elementalists, and thieves as their primary composition. More balanced groups also carry the other classes (and generally do better in greater than 5v5 fights).

Interesting to note that there really aren’t that many “gank group” compositions in our matchup. None from IoJ and a just a few from EB that we steamroll. I doubt DR has any as well.

Funny how we also steam rolled you a few times…. Go ahead and get off that high horse….

Um, I wasn’t talking about you. You aren’t running a gank group (as I define it) since you are running with guardians and necros and such. I consider you a balanced group and the best group we have faced when all of your people are there. There are a couple of other small groups on EB who run a lot of thieves and mesmers (and that’s mostly it) and are GC. Those are the ones we have steamrolled not you. How could you even think I was talking about your group?

My appologies man. I made an assumption which of course made an kitten out of myself. This thread has mostly devolved into flaming and personal attacks, and I took your comment that way.

Understandable, I should have been clearer. So, that was partly my fault. I think this thread has run it’s course for me at least. I don’t hold anything against people I disagree with as long as they are coming with intelligent counterarguments.

I can agree fully with that statement, and people have stopped putting any sort of real feedback into this thread aside from, “yes confusion is OP.” and “no Confusion is not OP you just need to l2p.”

And this is why it impossible to have a discussion relating to small group fights.

It’s not just small group fights. 1-2 confusion mesmers + several necros can totally destroy a zerg using epidemic to stack confusion. We are currently trying to build an extra mesmer-necro group because it’s just that strong.

Zerg players often have autoattacks queued because of latency and might not be able to recognize that they just got stacked with 10+ confusion so they just die.

Confusion is OP as kitten in WvW. There is a reason its nerfed in sPvP. There is only 1 class I don’t even fight against at fight clubs because I know outcome before it begins; Mesmers. Why? Confusion. If you get just 4-5 people that know what they are doing they can apply it nonstop to a entire team/zerg.

JaNordy.6149:

Confusion is OP as kitten in WvW. There is a reason its nerfed in sPvP. There is only 1 class I don’t even fight against at fight clubs because I know outcome before it begins; Mesmers. Why? Confusion. If you get just 4-5 people that know what they are doing they can apply it nonstop to a entire team/zerg.

Once again, Confusion was never nerfed in sPvP. Confusion was buffed in PvE and WvW.

Anything that damages me is OP.

JaNordy.6149:

Confusion is OP as kitten in WvW. There is a reason its nerfed in sPvP. There is only 1 class I don’t even fight against at fight clubs because I know outcome before it begins; Mesmers. Why? Confusion. If you get just 4-5 people that know what they are doing they can apply it nonstop to a entire team/zerg.

you could do what I do when I fight Mesmer’s, don’t attack them while they have chaos armor?

I mean….Most of the time I see people whining about Confusion are basically burst specs who don’t know when to not spam their attacks.

Seriously, if you have 15 confusion stacks on you, it essentially means I have landed 4xcry of frustration, 2xmind wrack and the whole channel of confusing images on you…

Do realise that if I was on my shatter burst build now, you’d be looooong gone already at this point. The mesmer attacks that cause confusion are as easy or easier to dodge than the mesmer attacks that cause direct damage. They also expose the mesmer more. (scepter has much worse defense and mobility than sword).

Confusion mesmer relies on tricking and luring the opponent to do something stupid. If you just walk away or don’t do anything, the mesmer can’t really damage you.

Those complaining about confusion must be the same idiots who frenzied with empathy in Guild Wars 1…

And here I am, to tell of a story.
I was engaged in small group combat, just a half hour ago.

Against three invaders trying to ninja through our garrison’s water gate.
And no, this is not a 3v1 story where I talk about how awesome I am at pvp (I did defeat them though, but who’s stupid enough to fight a mesmer with a focus on a cliffside?)

At one point during the fight, I notice I’m taking heavy damage everytime I do anything.
OH LOOK AT THAT,
10 stacks of confusion.

So I’m faced with this choice.
In this 3v1 situation, do I keep mashing buttons until I die or do I try to take the advice of everyone in this thread and just stop attacking for 3 seconds?
I decided to make an example out of the situation, so I turned away from them and ran for 3 seconds exactly.

Did I die?
No.
Did the godly OP confusion stack kill me with no chance of victory?
Nope.

I turned back around after 3 seconds and flung them off a cliff.

Moral of the story?
l2p