Guild Wars 2

I have to agree with entropy. In open wvw, there will be many mesmers around and if 2 to 3 mesmers + a few engineers stacking confusion maybe it could happen. From a single mesmer i do not think so. Assumptions are useless. Mesmers are not the only class with confusion, nerf engineers too? Nerf bleeds from all condition classes, nerf heals from guardians as well as sanctuary, wall of reflection, thieves shld do 1/3 of their dmg as well as eles shld not be tanky in earth attunement. These won’t work, the game will not be fun anymore and don’t blame your ignorance of classes on the classes itself. Like i said, you can always run away, turn back, re engage into battle. No one forced you to spam skills and when you die due to spamming, you cry op.

Thrashbarg.9820:

If the counter to something is just to not attack (or even dodge or heal) then it’s not a fun mechanic for anyone in the long run.

This is the real gripe people have with confusion. Not that it’s OP, not that it does too much damage, not that it doesn’t fit in WvW, none of that. The real complaint (which the above poster had the honestly to include) is that confusion INTERRUPTS the “flow” of other classes who get pleasure from cycling through their combos and racking up their numbers without thinking about it. It makes you pull back and think for a second, then react. Other classes don’t want to be interrupted from the button-mashing. They want to just do their thing. I get it, I do. But interrupting your flow and turning your combos against you is what mesmers DO. It’s the core element of our class. We are there to mess with your mind. If you have a gripe with confusion because it’s not fun for you, okay I get it, but no class mechanic should be nerfed because it’s “not fun” for someone else. Immobilization, stuns, and stealth are not fun for me, but the thief class needs them.

People keep talking about one mesmer stacking confusion, as if any fights in WvW (that matter anyway) are 1v1.

How many stacks of confusion can you get by having several rangers with quickness and piercing arrows trait, thieves with dual pistol unload, rifle warriors with piercing trait, and every other projectile finisher in the game firing through ethereal fields?

How many stacks can you get on a group charging through a chokepoint by having 20 mesmers all drop every glamour field they have in a 100 meter line?

How many confusion stacks can you get by having 20 necros pop epidemic?

WvW ain’t about me vs. you, or him vs. her, it’s us vs. them. vs. them others.

If you drop the glass cannon thief in 2 hits, you are not op. If the thief backstab you, killed you and stealth away from zerg, they are op and qq that thief are op, nerf stealth. This is the current state and quality of the community nowadays. Soon the game will be like the movie “oblivion” if nerfs continue. It kills the fun.

Thrashbarg.9820:

People keep talking about one mesmer stacking confusion, as if any fights in WvW (that matter anyway) are 1v1.

How many stacks of confusion can you get by having several rangers with quickness and piercing arrows trait, thieves with dual pistol unload, rifle warriors with piercing trait, and every other projectile finisher in the game firing through ethereal fields?

How many stacks can you get on a group charging through a chokepoint by having 20 mesmers all drop every glamour field they have in a 100 meter line?

How many confusion stacks can you get by having 20 necros pop epidemic?

WvW ain’t about me vs. you, or him vs. her, it’s us vs. them. vs. them others.

So let me get this straight. One class, mesmers (and a bit of eng) should be punished because of the combined effect of every class working in conjunction, using teamwork? That makes zero sense. The game is balanced by 1v1. That’s how they do it. Everything you’ve mentioned is just smart playing. I don’t care what skills or class you’re using, taking advantage of choke points is just smart strategy. It will ALWAYS be dangerous to charge into a heavily defended choke point, confusion or no. Every class has synergies with combo fields. An elementalist drops down fire combo fields and rangers fire through that. Now everyone has burning, the condition with the highest damage output. Should we nerf burning? Should all synergy between classes be eliminated? I can’t speak for other servers, but this “epidemic of mesmers” is a myth. In fact confusion mesmers are fairly rare on my server. I run into another and it’s like spotting a long lost buddy. In fact I’m often the only mesmer period in a zerg and people look to me to port and TW etc. What I see a ton of in WvW are guardians, elementalists, and warriors. Plus, as a condition specced mesmer I’ve already made a huge sacrifice on survivability. If I’m caught in 1v1 or 1v2 or 1v3 it’s struggle to survive. Nerfed even more and it won’t be viable period.

The fact that you have ever seen 18 stacks doesn’t mean its normal play. It can do decent damage but its not that great. Confusion in its current state really helps add a skill requirement to the game. I expect them to nurf it hard as the devs have a tendency to dumb down WvW play in favor of a game mode that is easy for new players rather than skill based.

If your going to nurf things how about knock backs, fears or blinds. Might as well remove the skill bar and let us huggle each other to submission.

This thread has too much QQ not enough Pew Pew.

Entropy.4732:

Thrashbarg.9820:

If the counter to something is just to not attack (or even dodge or heal) then it’s not a fun mechanic for anyone in the long run.

This is the real gripe people have with confusion. Not that it’s OP, not that it does too much damage, not that it doesn’t fit in WvW, none of that. The real complaint (which the above poster had the honestly to include) is that confusion INTERRUPTS the “flow” of other classes who get pleasure from cycling through their combos and racking up their numbers without thinking about it. It makes you pull back and think for a second, then react. Other classes don’t want to be interrupted from the button-mashing. They want to just do their thing. I get it, I do. But interrupting your flow and turning your combos against you is what mesmers DO. It’s the core element of our class. We are there to mess with your mind. If you have a gripe with confusion because it’s not fun for you, okay I get it, but no class mechanic should be nerfed because it’s “not fun” for someone else. Immobilization, stuns, and stealth are not fun for me, but the thief class needs them.

I get your points as well. They are valid. The thing is, it isn’t about having to just stop mashing buttons for a few seconds to counter in GROUP fights.

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1. tPvP is balanced around 5v5 and WvW is intended to be large scale warfare, the developers have never stated that 1v1 is a balancing point and it’s rather obvious it isn’t (1v1 backstab thief vs. staff ele anyone?)

1v1, or 5v5, sure, stop attacking a few seconds, let the confusion wear off, or use condition clear knowing the mesmer you’re fighting also has cooldowns.

20v20 or more though, if you stop attacking, your enemies heal to full, and keep attacking you, while you can’t heal, because you’ll take more damage.

Confusion should punish bad play, I agree. Currently in WvW, however, when it is used to maximum effect it trumps everything else (except maybe some specific uses of siege which are not really viable in open field or many locations).

If I had to build the ideal zerg, as the meta stands currently, I’d take something like 40-50% mesmers, 20-30% necros and the rest bunker/support builds of any class (preferably guardians mostly, and enough eles to keep swirling winds up constantly).

That doesn’t really suggest confusion (and no-target-limit condition-aoe) is balanced, as far as WvW is concerned. In PvE, I think confusion could actually use a buff, mobs hit too slow in general to take much confusion damage.

Persephone.7436:

This thread has too much QQ not enough Pew Pew.

Sorry, can’t pew pew, too many confusion stacks….. ;p

Xsorus.2507:

People complain about Confusion just like they did with TI and Mass Betrayal in Rift…People like to spam abilities….They also don’t like to pay attention.

very true.I only got killed by confusion before i was aware of it.Faced a certain guild(which came to our server afterwards and which im part of now….cough,cough) in the past, that hit us over and over with glambombs and after 3 days we wouldn’t get destroyed by it anymore, because we learned to counter it.

I met a lot of other glammesmers, so when my characters head is purple clouded i back off from front line to the back of the group,heal and cast nullfield to remove conditions, problem solved.

beeding stacks, burn dmg and poison are more of a problem for me though as they arent avoidable if hit with it.

a little hint for you guys:DO never ever walk through a glamfield and the dodge out of it again….it will increase your stack very very fast…u can’t miss them, they are purple and ther is butterflies too XD

Glam mesmers have very bad survivability. All you can do is run and enemy will cripple, immobilize and kill you. Nerf those so that mesmer can run away easily? No it is not going to work. The mesmer chose to give up survival skills for other options. Same applies for confusion. Imho, warriors and necros coordinated chain fearing is far more dangerous and no, do not nerf, people just need to learn how to attempt to stay alive. It gives you adrenaline rush and excitement when you are thinking of how to get out of that situation when you have no control of your toon.

If you dont feel like confusion is a little too strong, then youre delusional, and likely main a confusion character. I remember trying a hundred blades frenzy warrior in Spvp back in the day and I knew it was OP, and i main a warrior.

Go fight a good mesmer, see how you do vs their confusion build with WvW buffs and stats. Then with a straight face try to say its working as intended.

CrassBippy.4619:

If you dont feel like confusion is a little too strong, then youre delusional, and likely main a confusion character. I remember trying a hundred blades frenzy warrior in Spvp back in the day and I knew it was OP, and i main a warrior.

Go fight a good mesmer, see how you do vs their confusion build with WvW buffs and stats. Then with a straight face try to say its working as intended.

I do feel confusion is a little too frustrating in some situations, and should be changed by either a damage reduction or not proccing off of utilities/attunement changes/dodge rolls.

Frenzy/hb warriors have been awful for a long time.

I main a condition engineer with two confusion attacks. I’ve been enjoying WvW recently (I usually play tournaments) because there are more viable builds in WvW. In tournaments, engineers have only 1 build used by good or even decent teams. I was excited to find there were other alternatives in WvW. That’s it.

I think so many people are unhappy with confusion because the condition and the skills/traits associated with it either does too little, or too much. In the case of PvE there are many complaints that confusion does low damage due to the attack speeds of mobs and bosses, even when stacking large amounts of confusion. However, in the case of PvP and WvWvW where players attack much faster, the damage offered by confusion is much higher, to the point where people with 10+ stacks can die within seconds if they’re not paying attention.

A personal complaint about confusion is how it collapses the available skills and traits it allows people to spec in. As a GW1 vet who played a Mesmer, I love how skills synergized so effectively. For instance, I could use psychic distraction to knock down a player, case Wastrel’s Worry, and as they’re getting up and trying to cast a skill I hit them with Power Spike to take a large chunk of their health. In GW2 you can’t synergize confusion or damage with interrupts, the complete opposite of what mesmers offered in GW1: punishment. If you daze/stun someone the confusion stacks are rendered useless and you’ve accomplished very little pressure and damage on an opponent. If you want to use confusion, you have to heavily invest into glamours/reflect/CoF shatter. Conversely, if I’m going straight-up damage (shatter/phantasm), confusion actually hurts my damage output because the methods that mesmers apply confusion clash with the ways they inflict damage rely on the same resources (clones/phantasms).

I think if confusion were to be changed to function differently we might be able to find a middle ground in which WvWvW, PvP, and PvE players are happy with confusion, while maintaining synergy with the rest of the mesmer’s abilities. I think confusion should be changed to something like this:

Confusion: Deals X damage per second. Deals 80% less damage when target is activating skills. Stacks in duration.

So let me give an example of what my change would do. Let’s say for argument’s sake that confusion on a certain build hits for 2k damage per second, and I apply this on a warrior. For each second that he is not casting a skill he would be taking 2k damage. However, if the warrior were to auto-attack or cast hundred blades, as long as he is attacking/channeling he would be taking 400 damage a second.

I think this would help solve the middle ground between both aspects of Guild Wars (PvE and PvP), and I’ll discuss each separately.

PvE: I think this my proposed changes would help make Mesmer condition builds viable. Why? Well, if the issue with the current state of confusion is that mobs do not trigger confusion fast enough, then if you change confusion to damage when mobs aren’t attacking you could make confusion a viable damage-dealing condition, which was the intention of the condition in the first place. If the condition was duration-based instead of intensity-based, then you do not have to worry about teams that could exploit stealth and stack confusion quickly.

PvP/WvWvW: I think that the change to confusion would fit perfectly. We’ve seen this type of hex in the form of Wastrel’s Worry/Demise in GW1, and I think it was a very powerful damage skill when mesmers utilized interrupts. If confusion is applied to a player, they would be pressured to use a skill or take hefty damage. Since every class has access to autoattacks, the only time in which confusion would do full damage that a player would be responsible for would be when a player is hit by daze, stun, kd, or blowout (dodge is currently set so it functions as casting as a skill).

cDKI.8352:

I think so many people are unhappy with confusion because the condition and the skills/traits associated with it either does too little, or too much. In the case of PvE there are many complaints that confusion does low damage due to the attack speeds of mobs and bosses, even when stacking large amounts of confusion. However, in the case of PvP and WvWvW where players attack much faster, the damage offered by confusion is much higher, to the point where people with 10+ stacks can die within seconds if they’re not paying attention.

A personal complaint about confusion is how it collapses the available skills and traits it allows people to spec in. As a GW1 vet who played a Mesmer, I love how skills synergized so effectively. For instance, I could use psychic distraction to knock down a player, case Wastrel’s Worry, and as they’re getting up and trying to cast a skill I hit them with Power Spike to take a large chunk of their health. In GW2 you can’t synergize confusion or damage with interrupts, the complete opposite of what mesmers offered in GW1: punishment. If you daze/stun someone the confusion stacks are rendered useless and you’ve accomplished very little pressure and damage on an opponent. If you want to use confusion, you have to heavily invest into glamours/reflect/CoF shatter. Conversely, if I’m going straight-up damage (shatter/phantasm), confusion actually hurts my damage output because the methods that mesmers apply confusion clash with the ways they inflict damage rely on the same resources (clones/phantasms).

I think if confusion were to be changed to function differently we might be able to find a middle ground in which WvWvW, PvP, and PvE players are happy with confusion, while maintaining synergy with the rest of the mesmer’s abilities. I think confusion should be changed to something like this:

Confusion: Deals X damage per second. Deals 80% less damage when target is activating skills. Stacks in duration.

So let me give an example of what my change would do. Let’s say for argument’s sake that confusion on a certain build hits for 2k damage per second, and I apply this on a warrior. For each second that he is not casting a skill he would be taking 2k damage. However, if the warrior were to auto-attack or cast hundred blades, as long as he is attacking/channeling he would be taking 400 damage a second.

I think this would help solve the middle ground between both aspects of Guild Wars (PvE and PvP), and I’ll discuss each separately.

PvE: I think this my proposed changes would help make Mesmer condition builds viable. Why? Well, if the issue with the current state of confusion is that mobs do not trigger confusion fast enough, then if you change confusion to damage when mobs aren’t attacking you could make confusion a viable damage-dealing condition, which was the intention of the condition in the first place. If the condition was duration-based instead of intensity-based, then you do not have to worry about teams that could exploit stealth and stack confusion quickly.

PvP/WvWvW: I think that the change to confusion would fit perfectly. We’ve seen this type of hex in the form of Wastrel’s Worry/Demise in GW1, and I think it was a very powerful damage skill when mesmers utilized interrupts. If confusion is applied to a player, they would be pressured to use a skill or take hefty damage. Since every class has access to autoattacks, the only time in which confusion would do full damage that a player would be responsible for would be when a player is hit by daze, stun, kd, or blowout (dodge is currently set so it functions as casting as a skill).

I’m not crying for some crazy nerf, but the skill needs to be looked at with the we consumables/stats

Ps thx for actually contributin instead of just saying "omg everything is fine "

Nerf confusion its OP

purpleskies.3274:

Eliyahu.1467:

Complaining about confusion damage at 12+ stacks is just as bad as calling 100 Blades OP. L2Dodge

One of the biggest issues people keep bringing up is dodging with confusion can do a significant amount of damage, if you have an on dodge trait. This prevents you from avoiding even more confusion.

You dodge the shatters that apply confusion —> therefore no confusion. Why would you dodge for any other reason? Outside of confusion ticks, condition specced mesmers hit like wet noodles.

Actually I have no problem with confusion when it’s 1 on 1 or so. The problem is the lag and confusion. You can’t stop attacking during the lag time. Anet needs to fix the lags or confusion.

As a necro I laugh at a mesmer when they put confusion on me cause I guarantee that the confusion i send back at you is going to hurt a lot more.

You know people like to play the build THEY WANT to play. With the confusion mechanism it means people have to play and set up their build to be able to counter it. When I use a weapon or a skill is it fair that people to be able to play have to run some specific counter-builds???? No. In that way confusion affecting everyone’s playstyle because the damage scale up with the stacks and giving choice to people to run specific build to manage with it or stay passive not to die: this is already enough of a clue about how powerful is confusion in the wvw metagame.
In order to cleanse confusion if you have a single cleanse you have to be under no other condition damages to be sure it ll remove it and not another. It would mean that only a cleanse all conditions power would be efficient in such situation when you have plenty stacks of different conditions. When you know it can reapply immediately… there is no point really in doubting how powerful is that condition.
BTW I am very curious to know if Confusion is following the rule of the cap limit of 5 target max, if not thats weird…
After some time thinking about that problem I came to the conclusion that cleanse powers should have a secondary effect during 7sec of protection preventing any conditions to reapply immediately on the target that just cleanse and give a window of actions to be able to counter.
I know another game where you could be perma immobilised (CoH) and they fixed it and they added the status protection that is preventing a condition to reapply immediately as it is overpower and break game mechanism : This is what is missing currently in some GW2 powers as secondary effect: a STATUS PROTECTION.
Another possibility would be to add a confusion protection/cleanse to every stability buffs, everyone would then have a way to prevent it and I believe that would be the most balance way to manage with confusion. Cleanse without secondary effect of status protection is way underperforming any counter to the confusion stack spams.
Overal conclusion is : Or anet buff cleanse and grant status protection for 7sec right after using it, or Anet buff stability with a cleanse/protection on confusion, or… both (balance the game in countering confusion and give access to every profession the possibility to choose between stability v0.2 or cleanse v0.2 in their set up)
We could also imagine cleanse cooldown at 3sec and cleanse all cooldown at 5sec.
For people claiming confusion works as intended I ll answer: any disease will “work as intended” it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be treated, what I mean is that even if it works as intended, it’s not an healthy game mechanism :p and everyone knows it.

Xsorus.2507:

People complain about Confusion just like they did with TI and Mass Betrayal in Rift…People like to spam abilities….They also don’t like to pay attention.

People like to complain about P/D thieves because they don’t like to save their endurance and pay attention to dodging CnDs.

People also like to nerf classes they have trouble with and defend things that they like to use.

Forums can’t be taken seriously, people are in it for their own benefit and want to nerf things they hate, and not nerf things they like, regardless of whether they are OP or not. “Overpowered” is just a scapegoat term. A lie used to give people the advantage over others. Having trouble with thieves? Don’t care to learn how to counter? NERF! Love your confusion? Don’t want it taken away? DON’T NERF!

AFTR, confusion is fine. Nothing in WvW is unbalanced profession wise. Constant changes appealing to crybabies will cause unbalance.

the more i play mesmer, the more i see that confusion is not OP as people say, in fact it is almost useless against a good player….

I must be the only person that thinks it’s fair that confusion ticks on a traited dodge. After all, they’re still skills and the idea of the glamour Mesmer is to punish you for skill usage that could potentially damage the Mesmer or buff/heal you.

If confusion is posing so much of an issue for people, then maybe the damage should just be reduced so the mechanics and theme of confusion isn’t undermined by some drastic change to its function. It doesn’t need to be as weak as it was in its original state (i.e. what it’s still like in sPvP) because the battles in WvW are generally much much larger with condition cleansing going off all over the place, not to mention the huge open spaces people have to kite, back-off and wait out the condition damage. The dynamics of WvW PvP encounters are very different to sPvP and this should be reflected in what ever changes occur.

Personally, I don’t really care for a change, and actually think it will encourage less build diversity as confusion is the only skill that Mesmers can successfully stack outside of Sharper Images (good luck keeping those phantasms up). But then, I’m just one guy, and if everyone else is finding it too much for them then fair enough and let’s get rebalancing…

Simonoly.4352:

I must be the only person that thinks it’s fair that confusion ticks on a traited dodge. After all, they’re still skills and the idea of the glamour Mesmer is to punish you for skill usage that could potentially damage the Mesmer or buff/heal you.

If confusion is posing so much of an issue for people, then maybe the damage should just be reduced so the mechanics and theme of confusion isn’t undermined by some drastic change to its function. It doesn’t need to be as weak as it was in its original state (i.e. what it’s still like in sPvP) because the battles in WvW are generally much much larger with condition cleansing going off all over the place, not to mention the huge open spaces people have to kite, back-off and wait out the condition damage. The dynamics of WvW PvP encounters are very different to sPvP and this should be reflected in what ever changes occur.

Personally, I don’t really care for a change, and actually think it will encourage less build diversity as confusion is the only skill that Mesmers can successfully stack outside of Sharper Images (good luck keeping those phantasms up). But then, I’m just one guy, and if everyone else is finding it too much for them then fair enough and let’s get rebalancing…

Traited dodge rolls aren’t really skills, they’re traits. Them being considered skills by game mechanics is strange, so I can understand changing confusion to not proc on dodge roll traits. But the rest of the whine in this thread is sickening. Confusion doesn’t need a change, the players need to change. They need to learn from their experiences and improve their gameplay.

Getting the maximum number of confusion stacks a mesmer can throw at you is like getting hit by 2 shatters from a glass cannon zerker mesmer. One of them will chunk you, forcing you to back off, get out of combat, or at least wait until you can heal up. The other takes essentially no hp from you, unless you choose to stay at the front of the battle and chunk yourself.

People need to start paying attention to their buffs/debuffs and start reacting appropriately, especially if you choose not to bring condition removal in a condition heavy area.

If you suddenly get 25 stacks of bleeds, poison, and burning on you, do you stay in the front until you die a few seconds later? No, you do something about it. If you brought condition removal, then you use it, and assess whether you are still fighting fit. If not, you back off a bit and let your teammates deal damage, while you fix yourself up in the back of the zerg. If you didn’t bring condition removal, then you should be getting to the back of your group as fast as possible, and waiting until you can get back into the fight.

By the way, confusion doesn’t counter builds, it counters one dimensional play-style and poor reactions. Work on your mechanics, learn to be reactive, and confusion won’t be a problem for you any more.

Edit: I know I quoted you, but this is more of a general post, not a response to you. Sorry!

Titan.3472:

You know people like to play the build THEY WANT to play. With the confusion mechanism it means people have to play and set up their build to be able to counter it. When I use a weapon or a skill is it fair that people to be able to play have to run some specific counter-builds???? No. In that way confusion affecting everyone’s playstyle because the damage scale up with the stacks and giving choice to people to run specific build to manage with it or stay passive not to die: this is already enough of a clue about how powerful is confusion in the wvw metagame.

So basically you mean that no build can be total dominant, and people have to change their build in order to counter some other specific builds? I guess that’s a good thing, since no certain build can roll everything and everyone over, which makes the game more enjoyable and you have to actually study your opponents in order to win a battle.

Titan.3472:

In order to cleanse confusion if you have a single cleanse you have to be under no other condition damages to be sure it ll remove it and not another. It would mean that only a cleanse all conditions power would be efficient in such situation when you have plenty stacks of different conditions. When you know it can reapply immediately… there is no point really in doubting how powerful is that condition.

Not really. Condition removals removes the most recently applied conditions, so if confusion is applied last you can easily remove it.

Titan.3472:

BTW I am very curious to know if Confusion is following the rule of the cap limit of 5 target max, if not thats weird…

What do you mean? Confusion is a condition, like bleeding and such, it can be applied to anyone if targeted.

Simonoly.4352:

I must be the only person that thinks it’s fair that confusion ticks on a traited dodge.

depends on the trait. unavoidable minor traits shouldn’t punish players, even more if they are activated on health percentage.

I was dueling a thief with my engie a few days ago. He said, as many thieves tend to say, he was undefeated in duels. He tried and tried and tried and kept dieing to me. the funny thing is he was dieing to confusion even without using skills, I would prybar him at 30%ish for about 2k damage, the auto-blinding powder at 25% hp minor trait would kick in and finish him off for another 3k confusion hit.
so a prybar at 26% health is a guaranteed 5k damage on a medium armor target with a 25% hp proc they can’t even trait away from (unless, obviously, they choose another trait line). this happens to engineers and to a lesser extent guardians too.

I take a huge advantage of it but I don’t see it as being fair. confusion shouldn’t kick in when using minor traits.

That’s actually really funny, and a clever way to abuse game mechanics. Kudos to you :P

That being said, not allowing confusion to proc on traits is the ONLY change that’s needed.

Victory.2879:

So, let me get this straight- a skill that MIGHT inflict 44% of their life in 2-3 seconds is way OP and MUST be nerfed, because some people can’t realise they have it on them and don’t stop attacking during that period?

Mug/steal can do that damage FROM STEALTH in ONE hit with no chance of seeing it coming and no way to block it (unless u happen to have a block up at the time), followed immediately by more auto spammed macro’d skills and back into stealth to finish you off, so you can’t even use downed skills.

I’d just like to point out that comparing Confusion to Mug is comparing apples and oranges, since Mug is a used as a burst skill and Confusion is a passive condition.

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

Confusion should proc when people say something in chat QQing aswell. Also should apply more stacks.

Errrrrma guuuurd confusion!

I dare any confu lovers to do a 5v5 or more of equally skilled players, but one team has a confu mesmer and the other doesn’t. It basically goes like this
1) first push
2) 6+ confu stack on all 5
3) necro and other classes stack conditions
4) guards on other team cleanse it
5) too late, you just lost 80% of your hp from the 3 seconds you couldn’t cast anything, even more dmg if you did
6) you lose lol, l2p noob confu is hard to stack

I wonder if all these people who are avidly defending Confusion is fine are also in the sPvP forum demanding Confusion gets buffed there by doubling its damage.

Darek.1836:

I dare any confu lovers to do a 5v5 or more of equally skilled players, but one team has a confu mesmer and the other doesn’t. It basically goes like this
1) first push
2) 6+ confu stack on all 5
3) necro and other classes stack conditions
4) guards on other team cleanse it
5) too late, you just lost 80% of your hp from the 3 seconds you couldn’t cast anything, even more dmg if you did
6) you lose lol, l2p noob confu is hard to stack

6 stack of confusion deals only 2400 damage with exactly 1800 condition damage, which is about the highest a mesmer can get with food, without any might/stack of corruption. Any class can do better than that. Oh, you won’t be getting the damage, since you’re not casting anything.

You can’t find more of less equally skilled players anyway.

any decent team will have 20 stacks of might just saying..
and you must be mentally disabled if you think the other 4 classes aren’t going to be laying hell on he rest of us. also I was kinda understating the amount of confu, it’s commonly up to 12 stacks. also please tell me what class is gonna disable a full 5 people for up to 8 seconds while being ranged, and still doing massive damage for people using 2-3 skills and dodges.

1. You’re talking about 5v5, 20 stacks of might in 3 seconds? Ugh, it can be done, but it’d be impressive.
2. If the other 4 classes can take 80% of your hp in 3 seconds then I’d suggest you get some toughness and vitality gear.
3. 12 stacks of confusion? First scenario: the mesmer runs a shatter build, which you can dodge the shatters and get no confusion. Second scenario: the mesmer runs a glamour build, you cannot dodge the fields, but you will only get 2 stacks of confusion if you don’t step out of the field mindlessly. Either way, even with the 5 stacks from scepter skill 3, 12 stacks of confusion in 3 seconds is not possible if you are playing correctly (unless you enter and exit the fields continuously and let the shatters hit you). And you say commonly up. Glamour fields have at least 32 seconds CD if traited, shatter skills have at least 15 seconds CD, scepter 3 has a 15 seconds CD.
4. 8 seconds? 3 seconds confusion with F2, 5 seconds with scepter 3, and if the mesmer runs a glamour build then 5 seconds of confusion if blinded.
5. They do no damage if you don’t do anything without thinking. Even if you did, 4800 damage is not something other classes cannot do.

What about something like take X% of damage you dealt/healed? (condition damage makes it higher, stacks in duration)
Could also be applied to Retaliation.

Just a wild idea, I don’t really do WvW (in PvE everyone would be happy though).

Darek.1836:

I dare any confu lovers to do a 5v5 or more of equally skilled players, but one team has a confu mesmer and the other doesn’t. It basically goes like this
1) first push
2) 6+ confu stack on all 5
3) necro and other classes stack conditions
4) guards on other team cleanse it
5) too late, you just lost 80% of your hp from the 3 seconds you couldn’t cast anything, even more dmg if you did
6) you lose lol, l2p noob confu is hard to stack

This kind of argument is often trotted out when anti-Mesmers are dis-proved by the facts. When we clearly point out that the numbers prove confusion is in no way OP, the argument made is “Well, okay, but the Mesmer is not acting alone. They have a team other classes with them doing damage too.” This makes zero sense to me. Are we expected to run solo as Mesmers? Class synergy is a part of every group. Why should be be blamed for the group’s successful or unsuccessful battle? You say the act of cleansing confusion messed up the skirmish. You imply that if you hadnt had to pay attention to and react to confusion you would have won. No matter what classes you fight, you need to react to their actions to survive. A good player can react, counter, then win. If a ranger sends his pet to me am I just going to mindlessly keep attacking the ranger and not react to the pet? Of course not! I’ll toss down focus 1 and slow or yank the pet back. During the time it takes to do that, could I have attacked the ranger? Yes. Does that mean pets are OP? No! Am I going to let an elementalist’s burning condition stay on me? No, I’ll toss null field because I play smart and look at my condition bar. I know burning is a very dangerous condition so I REACT and remove it. Welcome to the game. As I’ve said before, confusion forces you to play smart and actually be aware of the battle, not just spam your combos. People don’t like it because they don’t like thinking. Confusion, unlike burning, gives you three choices. 1. Don’t attack. 2. Cleanse 3. Keep attacking and take the damage. Honestly, between this plethora of choices I always go with 1 or 2 because it’s so easy. But sometimes I’ll just take the damage. And guess what? Confusion does such little damage compared to firestorm or grenades or 100B AND has no crit % that it hardly phases me. Plus I got 22k HP. Even at 3000k condition damage after 5 ticks (which would be a really good stack) I’m fine. This is why all this complaining about confusion bugs me, it’s not even that great!!

It’s apparent you guys don’t know what ‘kind of players were dealing with. However there were some nice counter arguments I didn’t realize so thanks for that.

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

12 stacks of confusion is not hard at all to get… You are just stomping your feet and action like its impossible, I’ll hop on tonight and ss since you simply refuse to believe it

Terrahero.9358:

I wonder if all these people who are avidly defending Confusion is fine are also in the sPvP forum demanding Confusion gets buffed there by doubling its damage.

If I cared about PvP, I would. But like most other people, I don’t.

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

12 stacks of confusion is not hard at all to get… You are just stomping your feet and action like its impossible, I’ll hop on tonight and ss since you simply refuse to believe it

If you aren’t Deniara Devious, I have absolutely no idea what you want from me. I never said you couldn’t apply 12 stacks of confusion to a player. Could you please finally start reading before you reply? I even quoted again what I replied to and you still don’t get it, I’m really at a loss here.

Maskaganda.2043:

Simonoly.4352:

I must be the only person that thinks it’s fair that confusion ticks on a traited dodge.

depends on the trait. unavoidable minor traits shouldn’t punish players, even more if they are activated on health percentage.

I was dueling a thief with my engie a few days ago. He said, as many thieves tend to say, he was undefeated in duels. He tried and tried and tried and kept dieing to me. the funny thing is he was dieing to confusion even without using skills, I would prybar him at 30%ish for about 2k damage, the auto-blinding powder at 25% hp minor trait would kick in and finish him off for another 3k confusion hit.
so a prybar at 26% health is a guaranteed 5k damage on a medium armor target with a 25% hp proc they can’t even trait away from (unless, obviously, they choose another trait line). this happens to engineers and to a lesser extent guardians too.

I take a huge advantage of it but I don’t see it as being fair. confusion shouldn’t kick in when using minor traits.

I completely forgot about auto-survival traits like Last Refuge. Hmm, I agree that you shouldn’t take confusion damage from those skills, because you have no control over their activation if you happen to get a great big stack of confusion on you. I just want confusion to be punishment for active decisions made during a fight.

It must have been quite a funny fight for you though :-)

I agree, that should be excluded. If they excluded on dodge traits, I wouldn’t mind either.

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

12 stacks of confusion is not hard at all to get… You are just stomping your feet and action like its impossible, I’ll hop on tonight and ss since you simply refuse to believe it

If you aren’t Deniara Devious, I have absolutely no idea what you want from me. I never said you couldn’t apply 12 stacks of confusion to a player. Could you please finally start reading before you reply? I even quoted again what I replied to and you still don’t get it, I’m really at a loss here.

Maye you should re-read what you posted. You said I was spreading false info…. Maybe you’re confused? You should avoid moving or doing anything until it wears off

I still have difficulty with Mesmers from time to time; you can tell a good one usually who kills you and it often has very little to do with Confusion, because the bad ones often try to go full confusion and get murdered. Nothing wrong with that, every class should have viable strengths, and you as another class should spend some time learning how to counteract that with your class’ abilities (or lack thereof in the case of not attacking).

Confusion’s fine in WvW, with this one caveat: it should not apply on any dodge rolls so that needs to change.

Agriope.4523:

I still have difficulty with Mesmers from time to time; you can tell a good one usually who kills you and it often has very little to do with Confusion, because the bad ones often try to go full confusion and get murdered. Nothing wrong with that, every class should have viable strengths, and you as another class should spend some time learning how to counteract that with your class’ abilities (or lack thereof in the case of not attacking).

Confusion’s fine in WvW, with this one caveat: it should not apply on any dodge rolls so that needs to change.

confusion is supposed to put you in a state of "is it worth it for me to keep attacking? At the moment in wvw, it’s more of a “you have confusion, you’ll lose if you do anything with it up”.

Confusion is fine, it’s the consumables and higher stats that push it a bit overboard

Wow, just wow. Do these guys really defend the ridiculous state of confusion with “don’t attack” or “stack condition removal”?
There are SEVERAL other ways for ANY, yes ANY class out there (and with any i mean mesmers too) to deal dmg coming from other sources. By the time now I have any class at lvl 80 except the warrior (and those usually don’t stack confusion), and played almost any build I have heard of with them. I haven’t even tried a build that SOLELY did damage with confusion only.
If you look at confusion this way you consider it as a full stun or instant death if you keep attacking. There are classes out there that can maintain 5+ confusion stacks up for almost endlessly with the right traits + runes + weapons + bufffood.

Stacking condition removal is not helping you anyway since those classes (mesmer + engineer) can easily reapply confusion the moment you removed it. Engineers even cover it with loads of other different conditions. With my engineer I can keep up 10+ stacks bleeding + burn + chill + cripple + poison + vulnerability covered with some other less frequent conditions. A mesmer can cover it with staff clones + staff autohit or greatsword clones + greatsword autohits and the right traits.
Most condition removal has far longer recharge rates then those skills that apply confusion. And condition specced classes tend to outlast you, since they are built more tanky then glass cannons.

And even then there are people here saying it would be BAD to be a glass cannon when fighting a confusion-heavy-class. How is being a glass cannon worse then being a tank? Did somehow armor or toughness start giving condition resistance?

This thread is just another sample of mesmers (maybe even some engis) not willing to face the big problem, defending an obviously broken mechanic.

I just don’t want to be dazed for 10 or 5 seconds then reapplied the same 5-10 seconds later :/ it makes fighting more than 1 person impossible, and it’s hard in 1v1s anyway, even though I have a counter, aka sit there and hope they don’t have anything that does any damage except for confusion, or try my cleanses, each around 30 sec cd yeah I’ve seen how that ends, and only 1 removes enough conditions to have a chance against confusion! Yay!

Remove proc on dodge so I stand a chance please, or do I have to change my build and not to past 14 in Valor/Honor/whateveritis? forgotten now, but that’s kitten :P I can’t attack through it or anything because guardians + low health pool + toughness being completely useless against it = very vulnerable guardian. Lemme dodge kittenit! :’( </3

Actually it’s worse than a daze, because in a daze you can actually dodge…

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Why are you even here? Youre not offering any reasonable conversation. Now youre just changing the topic and people will never win trying to discuss things with you. You are the one with the agenda here. and by the way all those shatters are AOE.

so that 12+ and 15+ stacks are on multiple targets….. but it will always be something with you. So we all know youre just trying to hide things and mis inform people so they think confusion is ok and they dont nerf your baby.

you can go now, its ok. Well still have a discussion about it

CrassBippy.4619:

Entropy.4732:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

CrassBippy.4619:

Iruwen.3164:

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

I’m playing a glamour mesmer, how exactly do I do that? Tell me please, because somehow I couldn’t figure that out in the last 100 hours I played that build.
Also see https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-inevitable-WvW-Confusion-nerf/page/2#post1774788
Most people commenting here simply make false claims about how confusion works and how to counter it. Coincidentially, many of the same people actually play thieves or eles…

If you’ve played over 100 hrs as Mesmer, we shouldn’t need to tell you how. It’s not false, also note I said 12 avg, and yes, you can get 15 stacks as a Mesmer since I’ve done it

I have played 500 hours as a memer, 100 hours with a glamour build. And you should really work on your reading comprehension. Maybe read what I quoted at all.

Deniara Devious.3948:

They can apply many stacks confusion on a very large number of opponents from long range.

The reason I was asking how to do this obviously wasn’t that I actually expected an answer, but to show that I wouldn’t get one (which you’ve proven by not providing one, thanks) because that statement is simpy false. Exactly the kind of uninformed exaggeration that makes discussions like this so ridiculous. People have no clue how the classes and confusion work and make false claims because they can’t deal with it.

this is in Spvp, with no + duration buffs or anything on armor, took me no time at all to do. i can already get 2 more clones on current wep to get 3 more stacks of confusion, then switch weapons and get another 3+ stacks along with interupts and boons for myself. hell im not even using a scepter.

But its impossible right? i dont know what im talking about, im just a scrub who spreads false information because i have an agenda!

Take this over to WvW and add another 50%+ to cond duration and alot more dmg. fun

PS – i pre-emptively accept your apologies

Single target stacking with no opposing threat and no obstruction for your clones to shatter around means next to nothing. Show me you getting 12 stacks on 25+ players. Oh right, you can’t. Because it’s impossible.

Why are you even here? Youre not offering any reasonable conversation. Now youre just changing the topic and people will never win trying to discuss things with you. You are the one with the agenda here. and by the way all those shatters are AOE.

so that 12+ and 15+ stacks are on multiple targets….. but it will always be something with you. So we all know youre just trying to hide things and mis inform people so they think confusion is ok and they dont nerf your baby.

you can go now, its ok. Well still have a discussion about it

Look, you clearly have an agenda as well (look back at all your posts). I am in no way trying to hide things or misinform. Everything I’ve posted is based on my 100+ hours of gameplay. I’m here because I have played too many MMO’s that I’ve worked hard on and quite enjoyed only to watch classes that the developers have done an expert job on creating destroyed by nerf witch hunts and forum warriors.

The reality though is that we can argue until we’re blue in the face. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. I think confusion is fine, you think it’s OP. There’s no point in trying to change eachother’s minds.

This discussion is ultimately pointless because it’ll have no effect on what the dev’s decide to do. Anet has proven to be very measured in their balancing patches. We can point fingers all day, but in the end they’ll do what they’re gonna do. You want a nerf, I don’t. In the end they’ll probably be some slight changes, but confusion is here to stay.