Guild Wars 2

It obviously needs a nerf.

On an ele you don’t care if you get downed somewhat close to a keep/tower… you’re just able to mist form, go inside and be safe to heal/rally with no worries. Ele’s jump into the face of an attacking zerg knowing they’ll be able to mist form back inside.
There needs to be more of a consequence for an ele being put in the downed state.

It should just be made so eles aren’t able to cross inside those green keep/tower portals while in mist form. Being able to mist back to your team is fine… and still a very strong downed skill. At least people can still be chased and stomped in that situation.

simple solution…bust down the wall and kill them

Yes because that’s totally easy/balanced to need to destroy a wall to finish off a player… before they heal themselves back up.

Less talk more punch.

alright, also nerf the guardian heal skill that gives them 2 seconds of blocking. cause i can go down there do some damage and just block for 2 straight seconds when im low on health and runnin back towards the door, and the ranger trait that gives them the active signet buffs because, what class should be able to have 6 seconds of invulnerability, and the thieves ability to go invis, and the mesmers ability to blink…am i missing anything here?

Mist form ….. ruining WvW since 12/20/12 ….

“I will bust down this wall to kill you!- shakes fist-”

Heros Slayer.7081:

alright, also nerf the guardian heal skill that gives them 2 seconds of blocking. cause i can go down there do some damage and just block for 2 straight seconds when im low on health and runnin back towards the door, and the ranger trait that gives them the active signet buffs because, what class should be able to have 6 seconds of invulnerability, and the thieves ability to go invis, and the mesmers ability to blink…am i missing anything here?

Yes… none of those things can be done while downed.

I don’t mind mist form while they are up… only it making it so easy to get into a tower/keep when downed.

Aberrant.6749:

Heros Slayer.7081:

alright, also nerf the guardian heal skill that gives them 2 seconds of blocking. cause i can go down there do some damage and just block for 2 straight seconds when im low on health and runnin back towards the door, and the ranger trait that gives them the active signet buffs because, what class should be able to have 6 seconds of invulnerability, and the thieves ability to go invis, and the mesmers ability to blink…am i missing anything here?

Yes… none of those things can be done while downed.

correct, but that doesnt make them any more “fair” or less op. point is most classes have more useful skills to keep themselves from going down and some classes have more useful skills while downed. as a ranger who is specced to get active signet effects id say there is probably more people that qq over my 6 seconds of invulnerability that i normally use when they have got me down to about 4-7k life

Omg. is that really something to whine about? If you really think it’s a problem then I advice you to keep your eyes open for incoming people when bashing the doors.

Heros Slayer.7081:

Aberrant.6749:

Heros Slayer.7081:

alright, also nerf the guardian heal skill that gives them 2 seconds of blocking. cause i can go down there do some damage and just block for 2 straight seconds when im low on health and runnin back towards the door, and the ranger trait that gives them the active signet buffs because, what class should be able to have 6 seconds of invulnerability, and the thieves ability to go invis, and the mesmers ability to blink…am i missing anything here?

Yes… none of those things can be done while downed.

correct, but that doesnt make them any more “fair” or less op. point is most classes have more useful skills to keep themselves from going down and some classes have more useful skills while downed. as a ranger who is specced to get active signet effects id say there is probably more people that qq over my 6 seconds of invulnerability that i normally use when they have got me down to about 4-7k life

You still can’t run into the face of a zerg without any care/regard of being downed what so ever… It’s not like ele’s don’t have high survival/movement/invuln without mist form on down… which seems to be what you’re suggesting.

It is annoying, but hardly game breaking. If they aren’t near a keep or tower all it does is prevent them from getting stomped for another 2 sec. Now the ranger pet protection thing theres a big deal … those OP rangers are just ruining everything …..

I jest I jest

i understand what you are getting at here but its not really that big of a deal. personally what i like to do in wvw, i run around in parties of 3-5, if we see someone stupid enough to try to defend from outside while we are taking a tower we take turns pulling/knocking them further from the door. this way they dont get to do any significant damage and they are to far away to get back inside.

Heros Slayer.7081:

i understand what you are getting at here but its not really that big of a deal. personally what i like to do in wvw, i run around in parties of 3-5, if we see someone stupid enough to try to defend from outside while we are taking a tower we take turns pulling/knocking them further from the door. this way they dont get to do any significant damage and they are to far away to get back inside.

If you’re able to do that to an ele… then that’s a very bad ele. With all of their movement/stability/mist form abilities while not downed it’s not possible to do against an ele with half a brain.

Perfectly fine with removing mist form, just give us a substanial increase in armor to compensate since thieves and warriors can still down us in 1 set of combos.

Peetee.9406:

Perfectly fine with removing mist form, just give us a substanial increase in armor to compensate since thieves and warriors can still down us in 1 set of combos.

Bold faced lies, everyone knows Thieves and Wars ar UP and need a buff …. L2P

Peetee.9406:

Perfectly fine with removing mist form, just give us a substanial increase in armor to compensate since thieves and warriors can still down us in 1 set of combos.

If you’re still having problems with those 2 classes I suggest you go read up on some tankier builds… and learn to dodge 100b/kill shot.

I didn’t even suggest removing it, just don’t have it be able to cross over inside a keep/tower while in the downed state.

Someone with even a small sliver of intelligence can think of a way to counter the ele running back into the tower…

It’s not hard at all and requires very little preparation. Maybe you aught to think some more before screaming ZOMG NERRFFFF!

Weird. I’ve heard some people on this forum say it’s a waste of a skill and now someone saying it’s OP. Personally as an ele I like it. In some situations it’s awesome, in some situations, it doesn’t help at all. Sounds reasonable to me.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that someone with a level 80 thief is calling for another class to be nerfed in wvw? Lol

Warrior signet of invul is better than ranger , have less Cd, and ranger need to use a perk to be able to be invul…

So much stupidity in this thread. Yes, Ele’s should not be able to die strategically outside the gate then mistform through lines, bubbles, etc and through a portal.
Only defended by bad Ele’s, of which this is their one saving grace.

Ele’s have best downed state without them being able to port. Slightly less so in WvW than Spvp as the need to stomp is removed completely, but still solidly on top.

Nashaan.3160:

Am I the only one who finds it funny that someone with a level 80 thief is calling for another class to be nerfed in wvw? Lol

I use my theif to sit at teq and farm the dragon when my guildies say he’s up. It hasn’t been in wvw for a long long time.

Why? Because thieves only win 1v1 against baddies and do little for your team. They are VERY one trick ponies. Learn to counter their tricks and you’ll laugh at them as I do.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Weird. I’ve heard some people on this forum say it’s a waste of a skill and now someone saying it’s OP. Personally as an ele I like it. In some situations it’s awesome, in some situations, it doesn’t help at all. Sounds reasonable to me.

Once again… DOWNED state mist… I don’t care about the utility, it’s fine. 75s is a justified long cd and it takes up a utility slot. Instantly available when downed and can go into keeps isn’t.

BigTeeHunter.4913:

So much stupidity in this thread. Yes, Ele’s should not be able to die strategically outside the gate then mistform through lines, bubbles, etc and through a portal.
Only defended by bad Ele’s, of which this is their one saving grace.

Ele’s have best downed state without them being able to port. Slightly less so in WvW than Spvp as the need to stomp is removed completely, but still solidly on top.

Their downed state is one of the reasons why Eles is the fotm class. You can be a HORRID ele and still not worry about dying.

The ONLY change I proposed was just to not let the downed state version of it to go through gates… and people are defending it and trying to make it seem like I asked for it to be removed from the game.

You could still use it to get back to your team and have them res you. Are there seriously so many bad eles that feel they need to abuse this to be competitive?

Just change mist vapor form to be unable to use portals and everything will be fine.

I still think that they should nerf that downed skill and give us dagger tornado elite.

Heros Slayer.7081:

Aberrant.6749:

Heros Slayer.7081:

alright, also nerf the guardian heal skill that gives them 2 seconds of blocking. cause i can go down there do some damage and just block for 2 straight seconds when im low on health and runnin back towards the door, and the ranger trait that gives them the active signet buffs because, what class should be able to have 6 seconds of invulnerability, and the thieves ability to go invis, and the mesmers ability to blink…am i missing anything here?

Yes… none of those things can be done while downed.

correct, but that doesnt make them any more “fair” or less op. point is most classes have more useful skills to keep themselves from going down and some classes have more useful skills while downed. as a ranger who is specced to get active signet effects id say there is probably more people that qq over my 6 seconds of invulnerability that i normally use when they have got me down to about 4-7k life

Of course it does. Nevermind that an Ele can mist form before being downed, and has a blink. And is a strong bunker class.

Phule.1968:

Omg. is that really something to whine about? If you really think it’s a problem then I advice you to keep your eyes open for incoming people when bashing the doors.

People use this tactic once they are already inside a tower. They come out, attack, get downed, and go back in. I see this several times every day, without fail. There is absolutely no danger here for them, which is the bigger problem.

Lets go a step further and just get rid of downed state.

You can do same if you play warrior. You just won’t even go down because you won’t take any damage.

with warrior its use the whirlwind in the middle of enemy zerg and then nonstop-rally untill you you dont know where is up and down anymore xD

Aberrant you have OBVIOUSLY never played Ele. You are also full of BS.

1)Ele’s have the lowest defense and health pool of all classes.
2)Ele’s have the HIGHEST learning curve so it is very difficult to find a good ele and the majority are really easy to kill.
3)Yes ele’s have mist form they can use for invulnerability. But let’ compare it with the warriors or rangers: WE CAN’T HURT YOU when in mist form or use any other kind of skill that might do away with that nasty immobilize you put on us before we mist formed. Wariors and etc can. You thiefs got stealth and now even a speed buff where yo move at 50% extra speed when stealthed.
4)Since you obviously never played an ele you don’t even know a THING about bunker ele’s. You just think we just have a kittenload of defense and health and can withstand a kittenload of damage, guess what, WE DON’T. We use dodges and kiting and all that other crap to mitigate damage and healing power to heal us up. BUT if there is an ele who CAN withstand all that damage head-on then you don’t even need to worry about that ele because his damage will be utter crap and he’ll be hitting you like a baby. Even if you’re glass cannon, he won’t be doing much damage to you. I don’t get why you’re complaining in that case except you just got robbed of your “1” kill and are being kitten about it in the forums. In the other cases, things like bubble or immobilize just kill us, not even mist form helps against it.

I’m what you could considder a “bunker” ele cause I never go down, but if 2 warriors or 2 thiefs or a thief and a warrior manage to do a combo on me, then I’m pretty much dead. We have to watch REALLY carefully what and when to dodge. We can’t just go invis when we’re almost dead, sure we got mist form but that got a kittenlong CD on it and all we can do in that state is either heal or delay till some of our cooldowns are gone.
5) Also when you down, you get a death penalty, when we mist form, we get an additional death penalty, and then we can’t go out for a bit or we will effectively die.

But you don’t care about all that because you got robbed of your 1 kill and that’s all you really care about to even come kitten about it in the forums.

Aberrant.6749:

It obviously needs a nerf.

On an ele you don’t care if you get downed somewhat close to a keep/tower… you’re just able to mist form, go inside and be safe to heal/rally with no worries. Ele’s jump into the face of an attacking zerg knowing they’ll be able to mist form back inside.
There needs to be more of a consequence for an ele being put in the downed state.

It should just be made so eles aren’t able to cross inside those green keep/tower portals while in mist form. Being able to mist back to your team is fine… and still a very strong downed skill. At least people can still be chased and stomped in that situation.

Ya of all the things we want dev’s to spend time on, it’s this. Definitely this. It’s having such a huge impact on the game.

Fishbait.6723:

Try playing an Ele`. Downed mist form is only of any use, when next to a keep.
Anywhere else in WvWs & especially in normal zones, downed mist form is next to useless. So close to useless in fact that useless has put a restraining order against it ;p

Don`t want to do that?
Fine, nerf our downed state back into completely useless, but give us your damage output, your hp, your armour.

Mist form is far from useless outside of a keep. You can mist form into players of your server and they will bring you back up. I’m not sure how this is not amazing?

You act like Ele is some weak easy to take down class, but with the dozens of bunker Eles I see every day, this is not so.

why people just dont ponder on pro and cons of each class?

1st) If we just could switch weapon we wouldn t even go out of keeps.

2nd) if an ele use VAPOR form, its like being double downed….i.e. he is out of the battle for a comparable time to spawn to a near WP often if he wants to recover

3rd) do you ever see that expecially warriors can survive for a longer amount of time and get back safely into the keep? or do you just want a free kill to a low hp light armor?

4) if you consider what s happen in www, that is a situational advantage, and ANY class has many of them…..do we want to talk about ranger pets? of mesmers? etc etc etc.

VF is OP near keep? well D/D is UP near keeps too….so give us weapon swap…..

Tht is what happens if you just look at single advantages of classes rather than considering the whole picture….

The strategy for countering this is the same as fighting any D/D ele. Immobilize.

You know the ele is about to die, have immobilize ready and use it just after they go down. Then watch them vapor form and stand in one place like kitten

Aberrant.6749:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Weird. I’ve heard some people on this forum say it’s a waste of a skill and now someone saying it’s OP. Personally as an ele I like it. In some situations it’s awesome, in some situations, it doesn’t help at all. Sounds reasonable to me.

Once again… DOWNED state mist… I don’t care about the utility, it’s fine. 75s is a justified long cd and it takes up a utility slot. Instantly available when downed and can go into keeps isn’t.

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about

Yeah I don’t care about the ‘invulnerability to get into keep’ thing, but the fact that it’s on their downed bar is kinda silly.

Eh, ele downed state is kind meh. Anyone with half a brain is going to keep the ele from getting back through the door anyways. Classic example of learn to play.

Ele Vapor form is the BEST downstate #2 ability in the game right now. Even Anet said it during the last Q & A.

I don’t understand how anyone can say it’s useless when you are not near a tower.

• It’s an AoE interrupt. If 10 player try to finish you, you can cancel all 10 finisher by going vapor form and moving. Warrior,Engineer, necromancer, and to a limit Ranger(such a little aoe) have a single target interrupt.

• It’s a moving ability. Not only are you cancelling the finisher by moving out of range, but they have to run at you to finish you again. 1-2 more sec or survival. Only Mesmer and thief have a mover ability.

• It’s not effected by blind, stability, stealth, mini dunk or any other invul finisher. Only 2 other class, thief and mesmer, can do that.

• You can position yourself where you want. Died in their zerg? Move back to your zerg. Move out of LoS. Move in the keep. Only thief can choose where they port, and they can’t go tru door.

winning 3-4 seconde of downed state is BIG in team fight. That’s 3-4 sec of the ennemy trying to kill you while your team finish them.

And by the way, you can’t be CC’d in Vapor form. They tested it in the Elem forum. The only thing that can block you are Wall like ability of guardian. So yeah try to time that.

This post is an answer to everyone saying Vapor form isn’t strong. You might want to try Engineer or Necromancer downedstate.

If Anet ever nerf vapor form, I hope they will buff their #3 in return.

LordByron.8369:

why people just dont ponder on pro and cons of each class?

1st) If we just could switch weapon we wouldn t even go out of keeps.

Run to the back of the tower, combat mode goes off, equip whatever you want. Problem solved?

LordByron.8369:

4) if you consider what s happen in www, that is a situational advantage, and ANY class has many of them…..do we want to talk about ranger pets? of mesmers? etc etc etc.

1st, ranger pets are horrible in PVP. I dare you to go into the Ranger forum and say that pets give them a situational advantage in WvW.

Ele is one of the best classes in WvW. Great at attacking or defending in siege. Great survivability during a siege. Great for protecting siege from other siege. Great for traveling due to swiftness + RTL. Great for 1v1 if you’re D/D bunker. They don’t need another advantage.

Kardiamond.6952:

And by the way, you can’t be CC’d in Vapor form. They tested it in the Elem forum. The only thing that can block you are Wall like ability of guardian. So yeah try to time that.

Link? Mist form (non-downed) does not remove conditions. That being said I don’t think I’ve ever seen a downed Ele try to mist form in place. Requiring players who have immobilizes + have those skills ready just in case a Ele jumps out of a tower to “suicide” is hardly a counter.

I understand the OP though because they Know it,i get down and i just run bak and do the same thing over and over an over because there is no way in hell their able to kill me off.While other classes all struggle with this and are unable to do this,thieves maybe.Warriors ? insta death.

Elementalist is a OP class, and this is just another example of that.

@Visiroth

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Nerf-Ele-Downed-2-in-WvW-sieges/first

I think it’s in the page 3, I’m too lazy to check right now :P But the thread is a good discution (if you remove some troll that don’t read) about this issue.

Kardiamond.6952:

Ele Vapor form is the BEST downstate #2 ability in the game right now. Even Anet said it during the last Q & A.

You are fighting a loosing battle trying to convince other players of this. The amount of time’s I’ve tried to rationally explain it, only to be countered with ‘But warriors can rez derpdederp’
People don’t understand, give up and wait for dev’s to nerf it!

You also missed out the (probably) most op aspect of it, which is Ele is the ONLY class that can 100% counter a stomp (ok I lie, a mesmer or theif with a lot of luck and a lot of skill can stomp first time, but its bloody hard)

Ranger,warrior,engi,guard,necro can all be countered by stability
Mesmer can be countered by an easy to perform stagger stomp
Theif can be countered by a tele-stomp
Ele can be countered by a very precise, lucky stagger stomp, followed up by a tele-stomp, so long as the ele has not broken LOS.

Seems a little bit excessive.

Granted these reasons, and the Q&A in which this was discussed, was more focussed around Spvp, yet some of these still apply to wvw

I want to be fair, so that everyone is the same, but I don’t want to take mist form away from elementalists.

Board up all the keeps. No one can enter anymore. Not in any form. Not in any shape. Not in any way.

Problem solved. Ele’s no longer have an advantage.

Agreed that when attacking a keep that it is frustrating to have the ele who drops down, attacks the siege until they die and then just mists in the door.

Frustrating is different than game breaking however. I like GW2 because professions have things that make them unique. They have skills that shine in particular circumstances that other professions may not have. When this gets out of hand and is giving people too much of advantage then Arenanet seems to take action however this isn’t one of those cases.

One of the things I grew to hate about WoW was that at some point every unique skill was either removed or distributed to all the classes in some slightly different form because of the “it’s not fair that….” complaints

Vapor form has issues outside of WvW as well… Though if it’s ele running back inside a keep while being downed you’re looking to fix, just make it so that downed people cannot use the escape hatch. No need to change the skill.

“It obviously needs a nerf as i have L2P issues”……….
^That is all i see from this post.

Easy way to counter this is to stun lock the ele when he/she goes into vapour form when downed so he/she cannot move into the keep.

Also, instead of crying about things, try the class first and you will see why most eles have a hard time keeping up, and are in this so called “Bunker” build.

Nothing to see here folks, just another person who got his kitten whooped and started crying “Nerfz” due to L2P issues.

Its very frustrating indeed. They dash out, Armor of Earth, throw down some combofield, roll around said combofields, blast off a churning earth. Dealing quite a lot of damage, if anything goes wrong they run back inside.

Ive found a few ways to sort of “deal” with them, one can be done by many professions. When they go down, apply Immobilize asap. They go mistform, but it does not remove immobilize. So they cannot run inside.

Its still a mad downed ability, but it has some counters to it.

I main a necro
my only immobilize is tied to mainhand dagger which is useless in a condition spec
I can’t just stack conditions and let the ele bleed out since the end of vapor form counts as being downed again and being downed is a full cleanse
so what exactly am I meant to do to an ele that can get up, run inside, and then drop down and lose all of the bleeds ticking on him?

and, as Kardiamond said, this is hands down the best downed state 2 skill in the game (for the listed reasons)
it doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed survival against everyone, it just outclasses what every other class has and as a result needs to be tuned down a bit
and an ele may have low vit and armor but that doesn’t mean they should be balanced around being expected to die, especially with their access to invulnerability, protection, stability, regen, and absurd mobility

I think the skill is great as a Ele I use it quite frequently..is it OP nope only good if your near the entrance of close to big group… even if i do use it and cant rez quick enough in the castle/keep and no one is there I die..just means you are a sore loser because you didn’t get your kill. Learn how to play against it instead lets nerf it because I suck.
Just as easy how to learn to counter thieves the earth spells are our friend