Guild Wars 2

Kalkz.5297:

SilencingMachine.5049:

From the QQ in this thread, I am guessing you do not have GOOD people in your /m or /t or on TS that are broadcasting the countdown timer on those WPs, eh? You DO know that as they “defend” countdown timer goes to zero, you can spam click the WP and use it. (ie. it goes uncontested for a brief period).That’s why on JQ (where the boss WvW-ers live apparently…haha), you see people in chat with “10 sec on gari wp…starting spamming now!!!! GET HERE!”. Try that out and stop crying about 1-3 WP’s that you mostly don’t use anyways.

Stop Crying ? You’re a boss, JQ is a good WvW server, We get it, Now let the other 23 servers talk, we dont have WvW population as you do, When you have 10 People in your whole BL and your enemy outman you and you see your 3 waypoints getting contested due having 1 thief slapping doors over and over You basically cant do anything, Use your kittening brain

I’m with mr JQ boss on this. It’s not that hard to have someone call out the WP timers and if no one’s doing it, then ask in /m or /t “what is the timer at at such and such?” Everyone does this in T1 and T2. It’s basically common knowledge that every person knows about. Only having 10 ppl on the map is no excuse for not having scouts in the area. Have 1 person at each keep calling out who’s attacking and how many, that way the rest of the team knows which threat to respond to and which keep to let fall.

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

This thread is rife with knee-jerk condescension.

My server has been winning its matchups since Blackgate left Tier 2. When I’m playing (which lately has almost always been in EB), we’ve actually had our keep and SMC waypoints active most of the time. I actually notice swords far more often on the enemy keeps than on ours. So I’m not “QQing” when I say that WP contesting needs to change—if that’s all you’ve got to shoot back with, just keep that round in the chamber for someone else because it won’t work here.

In my view, being able to constantly knock out a WP is a power that a single player on foot should not possess. I don’t mind that the contested mechanic exists, but I do think it needs to be changed. I’m not really keen on the whole “white swords could mean one person, or 24” concept and I can’t say I’m sure why they chose to rework it that way. Waypoints should only be contested if there is an actual threat to the structure in question: e.g. it is under siege, or a gate/wall has taken a certain amount of damage over a certain window of time.

Same thing with defense events. I shouldn’t “earn” wxp just because I built an arrow cart or dropped 2 supply on a wall within three minutes after a thief tagged the gate. I didn’t really do anything to defend the tower any more than the enemy actually attacked it.

That said, I’m pretty satisfied with the overall state of WvW, although I’d be lying if I tried to tell you that I wasn’t looking forward to future updates. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn’t add in some Orb rework with this last patch.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

Deadcell.9052:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that contesting a WP is a valid tactic. What is in dispute here is whether or not doing so is entirely too easy.

Arkanfel.8403:

Deadcell.9052:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that contesting a WP is a valid tactic. What is in dispute here is whether or not doing so is entirely too easy.

It is easy, laughably easy, BUT what part of WvW isn’t stupid easy these days? You can just zerg anything and everything down in seconds, but that is a topic for another day.

Deadcell.9052:

Arkanfel.8403:

Deadcell.9052:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Deadcell.9052:

Stop mass zerging everything like a bunch of mindless apes and defend your stuff and you won’t have to worry about any of your stuffs becoming contested.

You have no idea what you’re talking about do you?
If one person can get close enough to a gate to attack it they can contest it themselves, turning off the waypoint for 3 minutes.
Someone with stealth, a bunker build, or doesn’t care if they die can easily accomplish this on any keep or SMC.

Ok so whats the problem with that? With culling now gone and you can see players coming from miles away, if your not keeping an eye on your gates its your own fault if your stuff gets contested. Its also a valid tactic, if you know another server has the majority of its players on one side of the map and no one is defending thier keeps with waypoint’s, hit the door, contest the waypoint, and now you have a ton of time to take a bunch of towers/camps etc.

I don’t think anyone is disputing that contesting a WP is a valid tactic. What is in dispute here is whether or not doing so is entirely too easy.

It is easy, laughably easy, BUT what part of WvW isn’t stupid easy these days? You can just zerg anything and everything down in seconds, but that is a topic for another day.

I admit, I never fully understood the zerg v zerg complaint. It has been my opinion that if you want smaller scale combat, you should be in sPvP. There is no way that maps this large with so high a population cap will not lead to zerging; everyone who plays WvW should understand this.

That said, there are some things that aren’t easy in WvW. Beating a larger zerg in an open field with no siege. Taking Stonemist with brute force against a server that isn’t outmanned. Holding an enemy keep. Commanding well. Commanding well with PuGs that aren’t in Teamspeak.

But just because there ARE things that are easy shouldn’t mean that it’s reasonable for a single player to disable a WP for three minutes and change just by attacking a gate once.

Nothing much to see here. Some people are too lazy to check when the defense event ends and use the waypoint then.

Being on a lower tier server is no excuse. Everyone has access to the map to check when the waypoint is available. If you’re too lazy to look at the map then just get out of WvW and go back to PvE.

Also having waypoints contested is not the end of the world, move your lazy feet and get to the location without using the waypoint.

i saved my home borderland garrison from attacks by contesting hills 3 times… that delayed reinforcements and gave a chance to our outnumbered defenders to clean up the inner. Had to be done cuz they were spawning, taking supplies from hills and run back in… 30-40 seconds and they were in the fight again, while our defenders had no chance to resupply.
if i’m defending a keep with WP, i report what’s attacking it and the timer, so others know if it’s under siege or tagged
a good commander will always send scouts to get info about defenses, supplies and decoy tagging other objectives before making an important move
i find it to be more a problem of communication, few people use the map chat to pass vital information..

I’ve been having the same thoughts recently. I love the tactical aspect of the game however asking people to sit in a keep and scout isn’t great for that player. In addition, having scouts in a keep doesn’t stop them banging on the door and blocking you out. There is nothing tactical about it. It should be a chosen moment to block people out for a period of time.

Few ideas floating around in my brain, mix and match as you see fit.

• Reduce the event to 1 minute, ten second internal timer between events whereby the waypoint is open.
• Dynamically scale the amount of people who travel to that way point based on wall/door status.
  Example:
  Outer being attacked. Ten players allowed to port. Per event timer
  Outer down and inner under attack, 5 allowed to port, per event timer.
  Both down, WP is locked out. Event timer refreshes Instantly.
• Waypoint is contested based on a percentage.. 5% reduction locks out WP. Allows groups who are organised to lock out WP quickly with siege. However, gives upgrading walls and doors a stronger advantage in that it allows players to port in for a longer period of time before being locked.
• Upgrading guards gives archers on walls the ability to scout anything within firing range. It will also show which wall/door is under attack on the map via a glow effect on said wall/door.
• In order to contest via door, the NPC defenders must be killed first. Walls can only be destroyed or contested with sieges.

Opens the door for more upgrades in keeps/guilds etc. more people can port in when under attack. Increases % needed until WP is locked out. You get the idea.

I’m all for tactical, however hitting a door and running isn’t tactical.

Isaac.6041:

Nothing much to see here. Some people are too lazy to check when the defense event ends and use the waypoint then.

zzzz

I send scouts to SMC when it is contested and always WP if the timer would expire before I got there. Home keep is a different story, since I seldom need to port back there anyway.

The WP contest mechanic still needs to change.

Got anything else?

Arkanfel.8403:

This thread is rife with knee-jerk condescension.

My server has been winning its matchups since Blackgate left Tier 2. When I’m playing (which lately has almost always been in EB), we’ve actually had our keep and SMC waypoints active most of the time. I actually notice swords far more often on the enemy keeps than on ours. So I’m not “QQing” when I say that WP contesting needs to change—if that’s all you’ve got to shoot back with, just keep that round in the chamber for someone else because it won’t work here.

In my view, being able to constantly knock out a WP is a power that a single player on foot should not possess. I don’t mind that the contested mechanic exists, but I do think it needs to be changed. I’m not really keen on the whole “white swords could mean one person, or 24” concept and I can’t say I’m sure why they chose to rework it that way. Waypoints should only be contested if there is an actual threat to the structure in question: e.g. it is under siege, or a gate/wall has taken a certain amount of damage over a certain window of time.

Same thing with defense events. I shouldn’t “earn” wxp just because I built an arrow cart or dropped 2 supply on a wall within three minutes after a thief tagged the gate. I didn’t really do anything to defend the tower any more than the enemy actually attacked it.

That said, I’m pretty satisfied with the overall state of WvW, although I’d be lying if I tried to tell you that I wasn’t looking forward to future updates. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn’t add in some Orb rework with this last patch.

Must not know about the FA thief who lives for pvwall on kains keep for endless hours even when we occupy most of their towers in EBG. You don’t have to hit the gate, just hit a cannon, etc. And then just go back to pvwall or other means to go permastealth.

It however affects us in the very least. Heck I’ve done it to them on my main thief, but usually when it actually means something like everyone needing to rush to smc or something. This guy does it because apparently he loves to pvwall for hours rather than play the game lol.

^^

Everyone knows how to deal with contesting Keeps, The point is, 1 guy has the power to stop enemy team from spawning, its a Big power and it should be REMOVED

Again, this is already settled. AN has said before they do not want a single tap to contest a waypoint. They are working on a way to fix it.

There’s was one thread that complaint about wp spawning on timer reset. Can’t find it anymore, but I remembered someone linked Anet reply on the issue stating that they agreed wp timer reset spawn need to be tweaked at the same time they said wp shouldn’t get contested easily as well. But no update on the issue after that.

Jeda.5209:

Arkanfel.8403:

This thread is rife with knee-jerk condescension.

My server has been winning its matchups since Blackgate left Tier 2. When I’m playing (which lately has almost always been in EB), we’ve actually had our keep and SMC waypoints active most of the time. I actually notice swords far more often on the enemy keeps than on ours. So I’m not “QQing” when I say that WP contesting needs to change—if that’s all you’ve got to shoot back with, just keep that round in the chamber for someone else because it won’t work here.

In my view, being able to constantly knock out a WP is a power that a single player on foot should not possess. I don’t mind that the contested mechanic exists, but I do think it needs to be changed. I’m not really keen on the whole “white swords could mean one person, or 24” concept and I can’t say I’m sure why they chose to rework it that way. Waypoints should only be contested if there is an actual threat to the structure in question: e.g. it is under siege, or a gate/wall has taken a certain amount of damage over a certain window of time.

Same thing with defense events. I shouldn’t “earn” wxp just because I built an arrow cart or dropped 2 supply on a wall within three minutes after a thief tagged the gate. I didn’t really do anything to defend the tower any more than the enemy actually attacked it.

That said, I’m pretty satisfied with the overall state of WvW, although I’d be lying if I tried to tell you that I wasn’t looking forward to future updates. I was actually kind of surprised that they didn’t add in some Orb rework with this last patch.

Must not know about the FA thief who lives for pvwall on kains keep for endless hours even when we occupy most of their towers in EBG. You don’t have to hit the gate, just hit a cannon, etc. And then just go back to pvwall or other means to go permastealth.

It however affects us in the very least. Heck I’ve done it to them on my main thief, but usually when it actually means something like everyone needing to rush to smc or something. This guy does it because apparently he loves to pvwall for hours rather than play the game lol.

Oh, I’ve noticed him, but something has been constantly contesting both enemy keeps too. I don’t know whether they’re doing it to each other or what, but I haven’t had to go out of my way to contest a keep or send anyone to tap a gate (then again I’ve only been commanding for 3 weeks now). I honestly can’t remember the last time I saw either enemy keep WP uncontested. Even as I’m writing this, they’re both contested.

SilencingMachine.5049:

From the QQ in this thread, I am guessing you do not have GOOD people in your /m or /t or on TS that are broadcasting the countdown timer on those WPs, eh?

That’s a bug which will eventually get patched.

Long term, that’s not going to be a reasonable solution to the “one person knocking on the door” problem.

urzen.7096:

Again, this is already settled. AN has said before they do not want a single tap to contest a waypoint. They are working on a way to fix it.

This is as it should be. Allowing way points to be contested is fine and probably necessary, but it’s way too easy for some classes/builds to do so.

slingblade.1437:

urzen.7096:

Again, this is already settled. AN has said before they do not want a single tap to contest a waypoint. They are working on a way to fix it.

This is as it should be. Allowing way points to be contested is fine and probably necessary, but it’s way too easy for some classes/builds to do so.

No it’s not settled because ArenaNet hasn’t changed anything.

Months ago they were talking about preventing people from using the waypoint when the defense event ended by extending the contested symbol’s duration a few seconds past the end of the event.

They didn’t make that change. Also, they haven’t made any changes to prevent 1 man from contesting a waypoint.

The March patch was supposed to be the WvW patch and they must have already debated this waypoint issue internally.

Since they didn’t make any changes, that’s means the status quo is in effect. So quit complaining about something that’s probably not going to change anytime in the near future.

1 man is enough to take or do serious damage to a keep if no one is watching so yes they should be able to contest the waypoint. End of discussion. No changes necessary.

There’s a reason why good guilds always have scouts in the places they own. A scout can easily tell you if there is a big force incoming or if it is some random attacking gate for fun. Quaggans also can cause contested buildings.

There is a simple solution to this. Add a damage meter. For example if 10k dmg is dealt to a gate or wall it should report as contested. That’s about the same as 1 hit from a ram so it should identify siege. Since 1 player deals like 100 dmg to a gate it would take him a long time to do 10 k damage solo. By then your scouts should have seen them scratching the door

Isaac.6041:

1 man is enough to take or do serious damage to a keep if no one is watching so yes they should be able to contest the waypoint. End of discussion. No changes necessary.

>mfw I read this passage

Commanders should be allowed to place mobile waypoints with the cost of 100 supply.

iiMulch.2138:

There’s a reason why good guilds always have scouts in the places they own. A scout can easily tell you if there is a big force incoming or if it is some random attacking gate for fun. Quaggans also can cause contested buildings.

Irrelevent. The W kitten till closed whether theres a big force incoming or not.

Arkanfel.8403:

Isaac.6041:

1 man is enough to take or do serious damage to a keep if no one is watching so yes they should be able to contest the waypoint. End of discussion. No changes necessary.

>mfw I read this passage

Ark, you are forgetting some wvw server are empty for some hours

maybe he just PvD a paper gater like a madness man!

P.S that picture is just pure win!

Contesting anything with a door should be exactly the opposite of what repairing a door is now, What I mean is you MUST do actual damage to the Keep/Tower door of 5 or 10% in order to contest it. This stops the Knock knock Avon calling crap that is going on now contesting everything. Doing any actual damage is worthy of white swords, not some bored thief selling makeup.

thread quotes updated

Why not completely remove WP contention? Instead, have the way point a certain distance outside of the outer doors (and have it be a WP for each door, that way the attacking team will have to actually surround said keep, like a real besieging army would to prevent reinforcements/supplies from making it into the keep). Now that culling is gone, if it’s actually a zerg, said WPing players will get massacred. If it’s a single dude contesting the keep, said WPing players will massacre him/her. This eliminates endless reinforcements, eliminates the single contester, and changes the standard everyone group up at one door zerg mentality (to placate the anti-zerg lobbyists).

Whats wrong with being able to tap? Its a diversionary tactic. It is also smart to contest close WPs while attacking towers/keeps. And not to mention kitten near required to keep a keep contested that has a WP since 1-2 spawning near the lords room every other second makes capping impossible.

IMO Tapping is part of a good havoc team. Keeping the enemy on their toes and constantly checking things. Not to mention it slows down zergs and helps to break up server sized zergs.

Fixeon.5076:

Whats wrong with being able to tap? Its a diversionary tactic. It is also smart to contest close WPs while attacking towers/keeps. And not to mention kitten near required to keep a keep contested that has a WP since 1-2 spawning near the lords room every other second makes capping impossible.

IMO Tapping is part of a good havoc team. Keeping the enemy on their toes and constantly checking things. Not to mention it slows down zergs and helps to break up server sized zergs.

Its not a good tactic, its a terrible tactic, Conteseting was made by Anet for strategies such as holding a full force outside the keep while there’s a small squad hitting it, Holding forces here and there while the keep is under attack, it WASN’T made for solo thieves to stop your whole team from spawning at that waypoint

Kalkz.5297:

Fixeon.5076:

Whats wrong with being able to tap? Its a diversionary tactic. It is also smart to contest close WPs while attacking towers/keeps. And not to mention kitten near required to keep a keep contested that has a WP since 1-2 spawning near the lords room every other second makes capping impossible.

IMO Tapping is part of a good havoc team. Keeping the enemy on their toes and constantly checking things. Not to mention it slows down zergs and helps to break up server sized zergs.

Its not a good tactic, its a terrible tactic, Conteseting was made by Anet for strategies such as holding a full force outside the keep while there’s a small squad hitting it, Holding forces here and there while the keep is under attack, it WASN’T made for solo thieves to stop your whole team from spawning at that waypoint

I don’t mean to instigate but even if it “wasn’t” made that way, it currently a tactic that can be use by all servers and classes. It’s not quite a exploit, maybe a bug, but regardless any server or team that refuses to not use this tactic right now is kitten. It’s not game breaking and honestly it requires a bit more communication from your server, which is a good thing.

Personally I don’t have a problem with the way it is currently but I wouldn’t mind if it took orange swords to contest it or if you had to hit inner.

Up UP

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