Guild Wars 2

Is this true?

If it is, why? It seems like more alt hate.

I leveled alts so they could be utilized as needed for WvW situations. So if I play more WvW across more professions vs someone who plays less WvW on one profession, that person could still have a higher ranking and more perks.

That’s discouraging.

Would you rather have all your characters locked into the same advancement?

Not all characters are used for the same things after all, so they will most likely be upgraded in different ways.

lordkrall.7241:

Would you rather have all your characters locked into the same advancement?

Not all characters are used for the same things after all, so they will most likely be upgraded in different ways.

No, I would prefer that while you play in WvW, all characters have the same rank and just make the points account bound. So no matter what toon I’m on, all the points are stored so any other toon can use them.

Don’t Worry, The abilities you get are awful anyway..

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

This is stupid. PvP ranks are account bound, so why shouldn’t WvW ranks be account bound. So are all PvE titles and achievements.

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Dungeon tokens are account bound, and you can enter with other character when the last boss os dying to get the rewards…

Try again…

Beorn Saxon.4762:

This is stupid. PvP ranks are account bound, so why shouldn’t WvW ranks be account bound. So are all PvE titles and achievements.

Well, that’s a valid question…

It is bringing alt-hate to WvW. (Though you could argue it already exists with Ascended items, though the impact hasn’t been felt yet).

The writing was on the wall though when Anet broke the Manifesto and brought in Ascended items.

I would not be surprised if we see a run-of-the-mill “grind for PvP stats/armor” system introduced sometime in the future. The kind you see in most other MMO PvP.

Jeknar.6184:

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Dungeon tokens are account bound, and you can enter with other character when the last boss os dying to get the rewards…

Try again…

Beorn Saxon.4762:

This is stupid. PvP ranks are account bound, so why shouldn’t WvW ranks be account bound. So are all PvE titles and achievements.

Well, that’s a valid question…

The thread is about ranks. So the answer to his question is that they already do this for PvE AND PvP. That’s why it was not well thought out.

And if his necro runs a dungeon, then yes his thief gets the rewards. Gold, loot drops, tokens, achievement points…all account bound.

Jeknar.6184:

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Dungeon tokens are account bound, and you can enter with other character when the last boss os dying to get the rewards…

Try again…

Badges are account bound too. Why shouldn’t my thief get exp and karma for pve events that are done on my necro?

Xsorus.2507:

Don’t Worry, The abilities you get are awful anyway..

Bump because of this.
Got fluf! Come and get your fluf here! Fresh squished fluf!

I hope that the devs didnt take mroe then10 minutes to come up with these abilities.

jhuce.2489:

Xsorus.2507:

Don’t Worry, The abilities you get are awful anyway..

Bump because of this.
Got fluf! Come and get your fluf here! Fresh squished fluf!

I hope that the devs didnt take mroe then10 minutes to come up with these abilities.

It’s the WvW version of ascended gear. Might not make a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

Also, IIRC devs said they have more perks planned, but aren’t putting them in initially to see how things go. Personally it would be great if they add:

+ power while attacking invader keeps/towers/supply
+ vitality while defending your keep

stuff like that would be nice.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

No, I would prefer that while you play in WvW, all characters have the same rank and just make the points account bound. So no matter what toon I’m on, all the points are stored so any other toon can use them.

Based on the picture we have seen however it is not possible to refund spent points. Which would bring forth the issue I stated in my post.
Unless you can get max rank in all abilities you would most likely want to have different abilities on different characters.

From what I’ve seen the only one worth taking is being able to carry more supply. I can’t think of a reason NOT to take that first.

lordkrall.7241:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

No, I would prefer that while you play in WvW, all characters have the same rank and just make the points account bound. So no matter what toon I’m on, all the points are stored so any other toon can use them.

Based on the picture we have seen however it is not possible to refund spent points. Which would bring forth the issue I stated in my post.
Unless you can get max rank in all abilities you would most likely want to have different abilities on different characters.

Yes, I would want different abilities on different characters, but dont make the titles and points soul bound on acquire. Let me play WvW with any toon and spend them on any toon.

wanting your WvW rank to carry over to otehr characters would be like leveling a guardian to 20 and then expecting all your alts to be automatically level 20 as well.

the ranks are progression to building a character, the same way you level up each character

Maladon.5760:

Jeknar.6184:

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Dungeon tokens are account bound, and you can enter with other character when the last boss os dying to get the rewards…

Try again…

Badges are account bound too. Why shouldn’t my thief get exp and karma for pve events that are done on my necro?

Your making an argument based on faulty logic. No other system in the game assigns RANK by character, it is account wide. PVP, Achievements, titles its all account bound. WvW using characters to assign rank is NEW, and no amount of throwing in other scenarios changes the facts in regards to RANK systems.

Honestly if anything Rank related in game should be per character is would be the PVP stuff. Having it account wide and restricting WVW per character makes literally no sense to me.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

It seems like more alt hate.

I understand the objections, but to me.. making things character-bound rather than account-bound seems to be better for alts… in that it gives each alt its own accomplishments/abilities and therefor its own personality.

what’s better for a healthy game where players want to have many alts: a system that makes alts unique individuals or a system that treats alts as generic templates a player just changes like a t-shirt?

maybe it comes down to perception.. with character-based progression I don’t feel like “now I have to do this with each character” but rather “now i get to do this with each character”.

Well why are level character based why not have it if i level one level 80 every other character i make is level 80 too? Its because its that character who is doing the work not your account. We could comply destroy the idea of your hero being part of this world by letting it be easy and let the level be tied to the account but that will take all the flavor out of the game.

When my norn guardian hits the WvW field i want the other teams to treble because it is know not because i am some random person’s account that they have no idea whom i am.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Yes, I would want different abilities on different characters, but dont make the titles and points soul bound on acquire. Let me play WvW with any toon and spend them on any toon.

Why?
I don’t get Skill Points on my Warrior when I play on my Mesmer.
The system is added for character progression, not account progression (the rank/title is most likely account bound though)

Maladon.5760:

Jeknar.6184:

Maladon.5760:

They should do that for PVE too. If I have to play a necro in a dungeon why does my thief get nothing??

Dungeon tokens are account bound, and you can enter with other character when the last boss os dying to get the rewards…

Try again…

Badges are account bound too. Why shouldn’t my thief get exp and karma for pve events that are done on my necro?

XP and karma have always been soulbound. Titles never have. Don’t argue just for the sake of it. The only comparable currency that you could argue from, would be traits. Traits are soulbound for customization. But even with that comparison on your side, I still don’t agree with wvw ranks and wvw points being character bound (if they even are) for reasons already stated.

At a minimal, ranks should be account, and wvw tokens soulbound. Which it very well may be.

Jski.6180:

Well why are level character based why not have it if i level one level 80 every other character i make is level 80 too? Its because its that character who is doing the work not your account. We could comply destroy the idea of your hero being part of this world by letting it be easy and let the level be tied to the account but that will take all the flavor out of the game.

This is faulty logic. You level in pve from 1 to 80. In WVW your boosted to 80 no matter what level you are. Its just like PVP in the mists. Everything PVP related is account bound, and it uses ranks just like they are adding into WVW. By not following the rules already established by PVP and WVW so far, it IS not normal that WVW would move to per character over account wide.

You guys will complain about literally anything

Us altaholics have to give up something, somewhere. <grins> <cries>

Maladon.5760:

You guys will complain about literally anything

On a personal note, I don’t mean to sound as if I’m attacking you, or just whining for the sake of whining.

I do honestly love alts and the ability to re roll when the need arises, and I a lot of mechanics seem to just make it harder and harder to be able to do this (dungeon story mode and fractals being two others). I do appreciate your feedback, thank you.

Seriously…The abilities are a joke, If your class was god awful at World vs World, and you were Rank 100 with every ability, You’d be better off rerolling a better class with none of them.

And I will admit, WvW tokens (or whatever they are called) maybe should be character bound, but the rank title should not IMHO.

Rank should tell how much player have played w3 not how much he have played one character.

Maladon.5760:

You guys will complain about literally anything

Says the guy complaining about people complaining.

Tandy.4781:

Jski.6180:

Well why are level character based why not have it if i level one level 80 every other character i make is level 80 too? Its because its that character who is doing the work not your account. We could comply destroy the idea of your hero being part of this world by letting it be easy and let the level be tied to the account but that will take all the flavor out of the game.

This is faulty logic. You level in pve from 1 to 80. In WVW your boosted to 80 no matter what level you are. Its just like PVP in the mists. Everything PVP related is account bound, and it uses ranks just like they are adding into WVW. By not following the rules already established by PVP and WVW so far, it IS not normal that WVW would move to per character over account wide.

Its not, your Hero is doing the work in wvw it become another leveling system. Spvp is a comply different system to the point of being its own game where wvw IS very much part of pve system. Look at it this way if WvW was part of the pure pvp system then you could not use gear and items from the pve world nor would you get any benefit from wvw to the pve world if it too was not connected.

Your problem is you cant get over the fact that WvW is not part of Spvp and your going to run into a lot of problems if you cant get out of that mind set.

When you get supplies it is not account bound when you get weapons and do jp in wvw they are not account bound each hero is there own person in wvw. If you have more then one level 80 in wvw then you chose who you want to play as at the time at the same time you can chose how to level each hero in wvw.

Your hero makes there own story in WvW much like the personal story but there no hand holding by Anet. If your quest is to kill ppl then that defines your hero if your quest is to take keeps tower camps etc.. then your hero is that if you wish to def what you hold then your hero is that. If your just comply devoted of imagination you should not be playing any thing that is RPG.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

And I will admit, WvW tokens (or whatever they are called) maybe should be character bound, but the rank title should not IMHO.

If you’re a good warrior and you kill a ton of people, so many that you get a nice shiny (meaningless) title…then you switch to your ranger and completely suck at playing it, do you really think you’re worthy of displaying that nice, shiny (meaningless) title?

Almostfaceman.1804:

Maladon.5760:

You guys will complain about literally anything

Says the guy complaining about people complaining.

Wow that was a zinger! You’re the king of the forums 0.o

Maladon.5760:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

And I will admit, WvW tokens (or whatever they are called) maybe should be character bound, but the rank title should not IMHO.

If you’re a good warrior and you kill a ton of people, so many that you get a nice shiny (meaningless) title…then you switch to your ranger and completely suck at playing it, do you really think you’re worthy of displaying that nice, shiny (meaningless) title?

Again, PvP and PvE titles/ranks are account bound. So yes. If I hope on an alt, I want people to still see that I spend way to much time in WvW.

Right now, I can pop ‘dungeon master’ on my level 2.

Maladon.5760:

You guys will complain about literally anything

heh, and “you guys” will always be there to complain about those complaining, right?

Either way, I am just waiting to see how it is all implemented. Being character bound may not be so bad, but if its like many of the WvW achievements (like yakslapper, etc), it will be difficult to attain on a single character much less alts.

I like the idea of it, but execution is the most important part and I just havent seen how it works in action. Ill reserve my opinion until I have played with it for a while.

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Maladon.5760:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

And I will admit, WvW tokens (or whatever they are called) maybe should be character bound, but the rank title should not IMHO.

If you’re a good warrior and you kill a ton of people, so many that you get a nice shiny (meaningless) title…then you switch to your ranger and completely suck at playing it, do you really think you’re worthy of displaying that nice, shiny (meaningless) title?

Again, PvP and PvE titles/ranks are account bound. So yes. If I hope on an alt, I want people to still see that I spend way to much time in WvW.

Right now, I can pop ‘dungeon master’ on my level 2.

Yeah and that’s completely stupid that you can do that (of course “dungeon master” is kind of an embarrassing title to begin with).

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Right now, I can pop ‘dungeon master’ on my level 2.

And don’t you find that.. silly?

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Right now, I can pop ‘dungeon master’ on my level 2.

Been there and done that!

Planetside 2, a game that is actually the best modern RvR game out there (despite being an MMOFPS), has account-bound progression.

Ranks, experience and ability points are awarded by account. Points are then spent by character (actually on abilities/weapons, most of which are class-specific).

If it happens, it will be very strange to see character-bound WvW progression in such an innovative game as GW2. It’s something you see in last generation MMO’s.

And if it does show up, it will undermine my confidence in the WvW design team.

Maladon.5760:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Maladon.5760:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

And I will admit, WvW tokens (or whatever they are called) maybe should be character bound, but the rank title should not IMHO.

If you’re a good warrior and you kill a ton of people, so many that you get a nice shiny (meaningless) title…then you switch to your ranger and completely suck at playing it, do you really think you’re worthy of displaying that nice, shiny (meaningless) title?

Again, PvP and PvE titles/ranks are account bound. So yes. If I hope on an alt, I want people to still see that I spend way to much time in WvW.

Right now, I can pop ‘dungeon master’ on my level 2.

Yeah and that’s completely stupid that you can do that (of course “dungeon master” is kind of an embarrassing title to begin with).

And I can hop into PvP on a profession I’ve never played and still be the same PvP rank.

WvW skill is more so based on WvW knowledge, not which profession you have.

Thrumdi.9216:

Planetside 2, a game that is actually the best modern RvR game out there (despite being an MMOFPS), has account-bound progression.

Ranks, experience and ability points are awarded by account. Points are then spent by character (actually on abilities/weapons, most of which are class-specific).

If it happens, it will be very strange to see character-bound WvW progression in such an innovative game as GW2. It’s something you see in last generation MMO’s.

And if it does show up, it will undermine my confidence in the WvW design team.

If? Do you think your comments of damnation to the wvw design team will sway there views? I think you think too much of your self.

Planetside 2 has money progression not player progression (you play more you get more money to buy more things). If it was a level system and gear system then the game would become imposable to start once the game has been out for some time (as in if you have players who take a tank + to kill and could just simply one shot new players). GW2 wvw has hero progression and player progression (with a bit of money progression too). There is a major difference between the 2 games and about all that they have in common if the “2” in there names.

Couldn’t care less about the upgrades, the titles is what does it for me.

Bragging rights > Any other progression.

Jski.6180:

Thrumdi.9216:

Planetside 2, a game that is actually the best modern RvR game out there (despite being an MMOFPS), has account-bound progression.

Ranks, experience and ability points are awarded by account. Points are then spent by character (actually on abilities/weapons, most of which are class-specific).

If it happens, it will be very strange to see character-bound WvW progression in such an innovative game as GW2. It’s something you see in last generation MMO’s.

And if it does show up, it will undermine my confidence in the WvW design team.

If? Do you think your comments of damnation to the wvw design team will sway there views? I think you think too much of your self.

Planetside 2 has money progression not player progression (you play more you get more money to buy more things). If it was a level system and gear system then the game would become imposable to start once the game has been out for some time (as in if you have players who take a tank + to kill and could just simply one shot new players). GW2 wvw has hero progression and player progression (with a bit of money progression too). There is a major difference between the 2 games and about all that they have in common if the “2” in there names.

PS2 has both a level and gear system. Utility slots unlock by level, and gear can be upgraded with points. Of course, by gear, we mean armour, which in PS2 means shields and nano-weaves suits.

The PS2 and GW2 systems are actually remarkably similar. Both make it so that new players are competitive in terms of weapons and gear. And the difference between starter and high-end gear is actually fairly compressed, as it is in GW2.

Like I said, these are the systems other modern PvP/RvR games are using. Ranks, experience and points that are character bound, instead of account-bound, are oldschool, grind-oriented methods. (Once spent though, utilities can be character-bound).

If they show up in GW2 = bad sign.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Couldn’t care less about the upgrades, the titles is what does it for me.

The only worthy title is ultimate dominator and that’s already in the game.

Thrumdi.9216:

PS2 has both a level and gear system. Utility slots unlock by level, and gear can be upgraded with points. Of course, by gear, we mean armour, which in PS2 means shields and nano-weaves suits.

The PS2 and GW2 systems are actually remarkably similar. Both make it so that new players are competitive in terms of weapons and gear. And the difference between starter and high-end gear is actually fairly compressed, as it is in GW2.

Like I said, these are the systems other modern PvP/RvR games are using. Ranks, experience and points that are character bound, instead of account-bound, are oldschool, grind-oriented methods. (Once spent though, utilities can be character-bound).

If they show up in GW2 = bad sign.

But there is a great deal more depth to one hero in GW2 then one account in Ps2. An ele can go full on support with a staff or a full on dmg with a scepter or a full on tankly aoe dmg with daggers. It dose not stop at the weapons of chose the level of hero customization with treats add a higher level of play. You can have a hero set up in treats purely for dmg purely for speed purely for def etc.. At the same time you can set up your gear to be the same way but to a higher level. Then you have the non level 80s these player cant fight in 1 v 1 combat but they can jump on wvw weapon to make up for it take up supplies to help build.

In Ps2 your “hero” is a faceless grunt who has no story beyond the side they chose. The game more like a battle field game with a bit of low end progression. In GW2 there is depth behind your hero they are not a faceless grunt but the sum of the story of pve.

Jski.6180:

Thrumdi.9216:

PS2 has both a level and gear system. Utility slots unlock by level, and gear can be upgraded with points. Of course, by gear, we mean armour, which in PS2 means shields and nano-weaves suits.

The PS2 and GW2 systems are actually remarkably similar. Both make it so that new players are competitive in terms of weapons and gear. And the difference between starter and high-end gear is actually fairly compressed, as it is in GW2.

Like I said, these are the systems other modern PvP/RvR games are using. Ranks, experience and points that are character bound, instead of account-bound, are oldschool, grind-oriented methods. (Once spent though, utilities can be character-bound).

If they show up in GW2 = bad sign.

But there is a great deal more depth to one hero in GW2 then one account in Ps2. An ele can go full on support with a staff or a full on dmg with a scepter or a full on tankly aoe dmg with daggers. It dose not stop at the weapons of chose the level of hero customization with treats add a higher level of play. You can have a hero set up in treats purely for dmg purely for speed purely for def etc.. At the same time you can set up your gear to be the same way but to a higher level. Then you have the non level 80s these player cant fight in 1 v 1 combat but they can jump on wvw weapon to make up for it take up supplies to help build.

In Ps2 your “hero” is a faceless grunt who has no story beyond the side they chose. The game more like a battle field game with a bit of low end progression. In GW2 there is depth behind your hero they are not a faceless grunt but the sum of the story of pve.

Actually, I would disagree with you as well on there being more depth and variation in builds in GW2 than in PS2.

Build variety in PS2 is all about weapon choice. There are weapons available for every conceivable combat niche (close quarters, mid-range, long distance, anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-airplane etc.). The high levels of character advancement are all about expanding sideways into these niches.

And we all know that the number of builds that are viable in GW2 WvW are actually pretty limited themselves.

Thrumdi.9216:

Actually, I would disagree with you as well on there being more depth and variation in builds in GW2 than in PS2.

Build variety in PS2 is all about weapon choice. There are weapons available for every conceivable combat niche (close quarters, mid-range, long distance, anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-airplane etc.). The high levels of character advancement are all about expanding sideways into these niches.

And we all know that the number of builds that are viable in GW2 WvW are actually pretty limited themselves.

Do we? I would just call it a lack of imagination. It took a good 3 months before ppl found out about Ele ability in wvw it took about a good 4 or 5 months before ppl worked out hammer trans. There is an Endless set of trick and builds for wvw in GW2 its just not handed to you like in Ps2 (not saying its a bad thing in Ps2 but the game tells you want is counter air what is counter tanks counter ppl). As much as you want to try you cant (as far as i know) start air drop tanks in Ps2 (it would be cool if you could though images the confusion the first time pulling it off lol). How to put it there are more lines in Ps2 so you know what you can and cant do but there are less lines in GW2 so its harder to know what you can and cant do (lines as in limit).

It all comes down to the effects of pve on WvW for GW2 as long as WvW is using PvE items level etc.. then there is no way that a new “level up system” in WvW will ever be account bound it will always be and can only be hero bound.

Thrumdi.9216:

Planetside 2, a game that is actually the best modern RvR game out there (despite being an MMOFPS), has account-bound progression.

Ranks, experience and ability points are awarded by account. Points are then spent by character (actually on abilities/weapons, most of which are class-specific).

If it happens, it will be very strange to see character-bound WvW progression in such an innovative game as GW2. It’s something you see in last generation MMO’s.

And if it does show up, it will undermine my confidence in the WvW design team.

Yeah but Planet Side 2 is terrible. And not even worthy of a mention on these forums.

As an altaholic though (8 lv 80’s) I am very sad that titles are soulbound.

WvW is about players, not role-playing that your character is defending a keep against some vicious quaggans. Making the rank system character bound makes it possible that:

Player A)
- Commands for 2h on his warrior which has a commander icon
- Switches to elementalist for 2h to help out with scouting and counter trebing
- Switches to mesmer for 1h to help portal a golem rush

Player B)
- Runs with 1 class in zerg for 3h

… and player B has a higher rank to show off. The best thing that can come out of this character bound ranking system is that none of the dedicated WvWers will take it seriously.

Not to mention forcing people into playing one character shortens the longevity of the game and creating characters with new classes will likely be one of the selling points of future expansions.

A proper shot in the foot by Nexon.

Pirhana.8935:

wanting your WvW rank to carry over to otehr characters would be like leveling a guardian to 20 and then expecting all your alts to be automatically level 20 as well.

the ranks are progression to building a character, the same way you level up each character

Have you seen what the WvW abilities are? Its not the same thing at all. They are all passive abilities that don’t really inspire one to build characters in different ways.

morrolan.9608:

Have you seen what the WvW abilities are? Its not the same thing at all. They are all passive abilities that don’t really inspire one to build characters in different ways.

Actually it does.

A camp raider will most likely not focus as much at siege, so he would probably build more for the mercenary and guard abilities. While one that focus primarily on taking towers and keeps would want to focus on Supply Capacity and Siege Damage/Defense.