Guild Wars 2

I was doing a rough calculation on wvw capacity.
Right now, its approximately 100-125 people from each server to fill the borderlands and around 175-200 on eb.
Even taking the upper limit. It would take 575(125*3 + 200) people on each server
This accounts to appromimately 30,000 active people on wvw when all the servers are full 24/7.

A month after the release,anet said they had 400k concurrent users.
Assuming even 50% still currently play(200,000) Only 15% of complete wvw(24/7 active on all servers) account for thier playerbase.

I would say its more around 7.5% of playerbase considering even tier 1 cannot field 24/7 coverage at the moment.

While I agree with your numbers in general. It is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. You can say WvW doesn’t get attention because not enough people play. But you could also say less people play because it doesn’t get much development.

All that aside anyone have basic numbers for sPvP they seem to get attention. Is it greater then 10% of the player base every day?

kanikani.2430:

All that aside anyone have basic numbers for sPvP they seem to get attention. Is it greater then 10% of the player base every day?

lol No.

Not even at it’s peak.

The reason SPvP gets more attention than WvW (because lets face it, WvW players are far more likely to be spending money in the TP for one reason or another) is because of this whole “we want GW2 to be an ‘e-sport’” thing.

@Braxxus yes that is what I think to, but if you are not an e-sport yet, will it ever be? Why not have WvW be an e-sport. Who even cares about e-sports? (maybe thats just me)

Oh and I suppose you could add dungeons to that list, what percentage of populations is in a dungeon at any one time? 10%? What about if you don’t count fractals?

Yea. They are trying spvp to be an e-sport, they had indicated it evem before the game released.
And about less people playing so less development doesnt make sense.. When the game released, almost all the servers had queues, people only started quitting after problems like hacking,nightcapping,no rewards etc

however small the pvp(wvw) population, losing them is a death sentence for games. Look at City of Heroes. Popular MMO, the devs thumbed their noses at pvpers, pvpers left, game ends after 7 years.

Cover Girl.2580:

however small the pvp(wvw) population, losing them is a death sentence for games. Look at City of Heroes. Popular MMO, the devs thumbed their noses at pvpers, pvpers left, game ends after 7 years.

Because pvpers are the niche that needs a home. If all a player cares about is PvE in an MMO, once they’ve tried the new and shiny it makes far more sense to go back to “that other MMO” where they already have possibly years invested with a large community and so forth.

Buuuuuuut, PvP needs balance and it needs to work properly. Things like the rendering issue (cough and thieves cough cough) may seem small but it really starts to grind peoples gears after dealing with it day in and day out for week after week for instance.

However on a good note at least we had a dev respond saying they’re changing the cap mechanism to match spvp when it comes to stealth so it’s not like they’re totally ignoring WvW. It’s probably just the game mode that’s last on their priority list.

I think there’s a problem with these numbers, in the implicit assumption that if someone is playing GW2 but not on WvW at a given time, then they’re not invested in WvW. Sure, it might be a decent estimation of the number of 100% committed WvW players, but that is honestly not something I would expect to be a large percentage because this is a game, mainly, for casual audiences. Concurrent numbers are also probably at peak periods (ie weekends), which means near complete WvW coverage is a safe assumption for most servers.

I’m going to illustrate a different approach: Let’s say on average each server has a coverage of 200 across the whole week day and night. Then the number of player-hours/week is 168 × 200 = 33600. Let’s say 80% of players playing WvW do it for 10 hours/week, the remaining 20% play 20 hours/week. That’s 12 hours/week on average, which means there are about 3000 players playing WvW per server. This gives us a total WvW population of 120k who play 10 hours of WvW each week and 30k who play 20 hours. Granted, this can’t be compared to concurrent numbers to determine the percentage, but even assuming a population of 1 million players being active every week (the number I’m most uncertain about), that’s still an estimate of 15% that are more or less invested on a daily basis in this aspect of the game.

I don’t have the numbers, Anet would have them. They have given some small but important fixes to WvW, I assume one of the issues keeping us from seeing anything big yet is that rolling out new mechanics for WvW would be a lot more finicky than simply making new PvE content.

Well, according to that guy’s reddit Q&A a day or two ago, they are currently working on alot of changes for WvW. As to how long that’ll take, well, that’s anyone’s guess.

Nevertheless, at least they have commented on some of the things they’d like to do with WvW, so, at least they’ve already been thinking about it.

If the best gear in the game droped only in WvW, everyone would be in WvW.

Instead they’re all doing fractals. Not because they all enjoy it, but because the game bribes them to be there while WvW is just a gold sink.

kanikani.2430:

While I agree with your numbers in general. It is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. You can say WvW doesn’t get attention because not enough people play. But you could also say less people play because it doesn’t get much development.

All that aside anyone have basic numbers for sPvP they seem to get attention. Is it greater then 10% of the player base every day?

I doubt sPVP has a quarter that of WvW.

Raincrow.1840:

If the best gear in the game droped only in WvW, everyone would be in WvW.

Instead they’re all doing fractals. Not because they all enjoy it, but because the game bribes them to be there while WvW is just a gold sink.

I have a few issues with your statement.
1. Most people I know do thoroughly enjoy fractals and THAT’S why they do it.
2. The game does not “bribe them to be there”. They don’t have to if they don’t want to. The rings that drop aren’t going to be a major factor.
3. I make money in WvW. It’s not difficult. If you’re constantly upgrading stuff then I can see how you might lose it, but that’s what guild banks are for.

I don’t necessarily think WvW is being neglected. Because it’s on such a large scale, things require more thinking and testing than anything else in the game. It’s more complicated to add random stuff whilst keeping balance in mind – You can’t just go about adding stuff and if it doesn’t work, you take it out again. That would eat up way too much resources, that could otherwise be spent on actual content.

=)

AprilRain.7649:

I don’t necessarily think WvW is being neglected. Because it’s on such a large scale, things require more thinking and testing than anything else in the game. It’s more complicated to add random stuff whilst keeping balance in mind – You can’t just go about adding stuff and if it doesn’t work, you take it out again. That would eat up way too much resources, that could otherwise be spent on actual content.

I’m not so willing to make excuses for lack of WvW lurve. It wouldn’t take much to “toss a bone at the hungry dogs.” Simply as adding something like constructable bramble/log/stone barriers as a defensive, open-field “siege” element could go a long way to adding a new dimension to open field strategy and shake out the cobwebs.

“Bones” or lurve don’t need to alter root elements of design. It doesn’t take new maps or skills or weapons or character classes to placate the WvW community. While some might argue the opposite, I believe even small, token lurve is better than no lurve at all.

you are wrong OP
while i get 3 ppls in 1 borderland , i cannot enter Lion arch cause overflow
there are entire clans that never went WvW and don’t wanna go
on Eu almost all servers got “high” population, on Us same. Problem is rewarding, I am fine to make 2-3 gold /day in wvw some say they can make that in 30 minutes in Pve

Way too many flaws and unknowns to draw this conclusion. For one, the 400k number wasn’t total accounts, it was concurrent players online at the same time. Also, if WvW is full on all servers 24/7 but the average playtime for each WvW player is 2 hours, then that means there are 351,900 different people doing WvW (51 servers * 575 players * 12 shifts) in a day. Obviously all servers are not full 24/7 and we don’t know what the average play time of a WvW players is so there’s no real way to calculate it.

zortek.9607:

“Bones” or lurve don’t need to alter root elements of design. It doesn’t take new maps or skills or weapons or character classes to placate the WvW community. While some might argue the opposite, I believe even small, token lurve is better than no lurve at all.

I agree. All it would really take for WvWvW players to be heartened would be a vision coming from ArenaNet – not even stuff in the game just the vision of what they are planning on doing with WvWvW… if anything.

I really want to know what ArenaNet is planning for WvWvW.

One thing that we know from all the MMOs out there – those that were successful and those that have faded – it is the player interactions that keep people around and interested.

We play MMOs because we want to play with other players. When the MMO impedes the grouping element of the game then people start leaving quickly.

If you talk to people who still play WoW the most common response to the question Why is because their friends are playing. WoW has that critical mass to keep it going and Blizzard is really good at adding new content that groups of people get to tackle together.

WvWvW is the best thing, in my opinion, going for Guildwars 2’s longevity – it provides a constantly changing environment where players get to interact with other players and work together. The challenge facing WvWvW is that people don’t feel that their individual contributions and group contributions matter – mostly due to how points are calculated.

The amount of people who have become frustrated with WvWvW from ‘night capping’ of control points speaks volumes to a design decision that wasn’t given a huge amount of thought. Points may be ‘useless’ in the grand scheme of things but as players we see points and we see a gauge that reflects how well our side is doing.

Anyway, I think WvWvW can be the best element of GW2 in terms of it moving forward. I think WvWvW is far more beneficial to retaining players than any other element of the game and I think that they can monetize off of WvWvW better than sPvP. But, will ArenaNet see it that way? I don’t think so… at least they haven’t yet.

They’ve allowed a ton of players to quit the game who would have stuck around if WvWvW’s point system had only been a little bit different. That one change… ahh, the impact of a little number is amazing.

The other truly successful MMO in my view is EVE Online – that’s an MMO that has managed, for the most part, to continually grow (except for one disastrous expansion where they introduced some variant of real-money purchases that exploded in their face) and that growth is almost all dependent on PvP. Even though there are a lot of players in EVE that do -not- PvP the initial attraction of the game environment is that players can achieve almost anything in that game. But, that’s a different game entirely

I want to see GW2 step up to the plate and lay out a vision for WvWvW so I can decide if I should just leave this game entirely. As it is I keep coming back to the site to check ever so hopefully that there is something here as an update… but each time.. more time passes between spikes of interest… But, hey, I’m just one player

From Wikipedia:

The Pareto principle (also known as the 80–20 rule, the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
—-

i would hope Arenanet, being a business, is well aware of the effects 15-20% of their population can have on their game and income altogether. I feel the Pareto principle and many other interesting logical arguments can be made to explain why just because we who play WvW are few, we are still extremely important.

i’m not claiming Anet is blind and dumb to such basic principles. I am simply claiming that stating we are a small percent of the population is not a strong argument on why we would be left unhappy with a product.

The ‘400k -30k = non WvW population’ is just a horribly misleading number. It suggests people play exclusively one or the other which just isn’t true. It includes players fiddling with the TP, players AFK in Lion’s Arch, players leveling a new character, players in queue for WvW, players fiddling with the dye on their character and a host of other activities. Many of these are dedicated WvW players, but you’re including them in the non WvW segment. I know I play exclusively for WvW, but only about 80% of my time logged in is spent in a WvW map. It’s entirely possible that people identifying themselves as WvW players as opposed to PvEers is a small segment of the population. But let’s be realistic, if you are in the ball park, it’s via pure chance not because this analysis is rigorous.

Anyway, which is it really? Does WvW receive little development because there aren’t many players, or are the current population woes a result of PvE focused development. Personally I think it’s the latter.

Cover Girl.2580:

however small the pvp(wvw) population, losing them is a death sentence for games. Look at City of Heroes. Popular MMO, the devs thumbed their noses at pvpers, pvpers left, game ends after 7 years.

7 years is a good run for any MMO

It’s probably not getting any love because it takes a lot of careful consideration not to throw it in disarray. Don’t forget that WvW follows PvE rules and that any changes they make to skills have wider implications. As far as content goes, we are missing content that we originally started with…remember orbs? Hopefully they’re trying to fix what was broken before they add anything new. Additionally, Wintersday is around the corner. That holiday is coming regardless of whether the content is ready or not…I mean it’s not like they can just push it back to January. I’m sure that scheduling is a major factor in what updates we will see, and that after the holidays we might see a lot more core-fixes to the game. I can’t speak for the numbers of players involved in WvW, but I hardly believe they simply used player populations to demarcate resources.

But…what do we know. It’s armchair developing at best, and should not be left to base speculation.

Vanecrox.5094:

It’s probably not getting any love because it takes a lot of careful consideration not to throw it in disarray. Don’t forget that WvW follows PvE rules and that any changes they make to skills have wider implications. As far as content goes, we are missing content that we originally started with…remember orbs? Hopefully they’re trying to fix what was broken before they add anything new. Additionally, Wintersday is around the corner. That holiday is coming regardless of whether the content is ready or not…I mean it’s not like they can just push it back to January. I’m sure that scheduling is a major factor in what updates we will see, and that after the holidays we might see a lot more core-fixes to the game. I can’t speak for the numbers of players involved in WvW, but I hardly believe they simply used player populations to demarcate resources.

But…what do we know. It’s armchair developing at best, and should not be left to base speculation.

My personal opinion cancel winters day ‘event’ I am sure it will be bugged like crazy, heavily complained about and personally I will most likely not enjoy it at all. I would much rather they stop doing these ‘events’ and actually work on something of value to me. To say its ok to keep putting off core issue because of these events means they will never happen. If they wait for ‘after the holidays’ this game maybe DOA at that point. Gamers are much more fickle then most companies seem to realize.

Brunners.7251:

1. Most people I know do thoroughly enjoy fractals and THAT’S why they do it.

I’m sure there are people who enjoy it, but there are also many who don’t, yet they’re still there for the gear. I’m sure many people may also enjoy them the first few times, but doing the same fractals over and over again? If not for fractals being the only way to get the best gear currently in the game, many people would be doing something else.

Brunners.7251:

2. The game does not “bribe them to be there”. They don’t have to if they don’t want to. The rings that drop aren’t going to be a major factor.

Whether or not the rings are “needed” doesn’t change the fact that fractals are the only way to get them, and they are currently better than any other rings in the game. They put that gear there for a reason, because they want to encourage people to do fractals. Not just once to see the content, but to do them over and over again. It’s a bribe.

Brunners.7251:

3. I make money in WvW. It’s not difficult. If you’re constantly upgrading stuff then I can see how you might lose it, but that’s what guild banks are for.

Whether you’re having guildies pay your way or not, you don’t make anywhere near as much money in WvW as you could in other high level content.

whiran.1473:

I agree. All it would really take for WvWvW players to be heartened would be a vision coming from ArenaNet – not even stuff in the game just the vision of what they are planning on doing with WvWvW… if anything.

I really want to know what ArenaNet is planning for WvWvW.

Won’t happen and hear is why. If Anet says we want to do A,B,C and D with WvW, then end up having to change D to E or drop C because it isn’t feasible they will be called liars. There will be a 10,000 post long thread saying how Anet is the worst gaming company ever, and that Nexon is the devil and made Anet change D to E for more money. I think Anet is going to be pretty tight with the info they give from now on, and the community brought it on themselves.

Ualtar.5047:

Won’t happen and hear is why. If Anet says we want to do A,B,C and D with WvW, then end up having to change D to E or drop C because it isn’t feasible they will be called liars. There will be a 10,000 post long thread saying how Anet is the worst gaming company ever, and that Nexon is the devil and made Anet change D to E for more money. I think Anet is going to be pretty tight with the info they give from now on, and the community brought it on themselves.

I feel its better to have complaints, because at least that means you have players to complain. If you just hide what your doing there may be no one left to even complain.

Also note they were pretty tight lipped about both content updates until they were release. There were just as many complaints. Lack of communication is never a good thing in my book, it leads people to assume things and at this point with how jaded games are in general they will assume very bad stuff.

kanikani.2430:

All that aside anyone have basic numbers for sPvP they seem to get attention. Is it greater then 10% of the player base every day?

Not even remotely close, it’s probably barely %1, and more like sub %1.

S/TPvP was released with far far less game modes than GW1, and the hot-join system is inherently unbalanced, thus pugs are given a horrible experience of being zerg’d vs losing from lack of personal skill. Anet has already missed their E-sport window and the damage is done.