Guild Wars 2

This garbage seriously needs to be addressed, especially with the current culling issues and such. You should not be able to stomp kill someone if they can’t see you or attack you or do anything about it.

Or at least change some skills for certain classes to become invulnerable for some time to prevent this. Right now classes like the Warrior and Engineer are sitting ducks to thieves that can cast shadow refuge or elementalists that can cast mist form.

Raven Paradox.1860:

Or at least change some skills for certain classes to become invulnerable for some time to prevent this. Right now classes like the Warrior and Engineer are sitting ducks to thieves that can cast shadow refuge or elementalists that can cast mist form.

Mesmers can invuln stomp, so can engineers. Engineers can also stealth stomp. Warriors and rangers can quickness or stability, necros can stability, guardians can stability, not to mention all the blinds and blocks that can be used at the right time.

Yes, some classes have more desirable downed skills than others but every class can make you a sitting duck. Heck even thieves are vulnerable to the teleport stomps.

You’re complaining about classes burning CD’s just to stomp you when you’re downed. You’re downed, you already lost, and these classes have to burn CD abilities just to stomp you. Maybe you should be nerfed instead.

There are different classes, which have different skills, which have different play styles, which creates a different experience for the player.
Lets keep things different… difference is good.

More like, if you are downed and you take damage from a player then it should slow the reviving process. If you are spiked then you should automatically return to the nearest spawn point or switch to map so you cannot see till you pick a spawn point, you should not be allowed to be revived after being spiked.

You would be allowed to be revived if you were downed and finished from range and not spiked.

That would sort alot of the bull with 1 good player that can beat 4 people yet those 4 keep reviving each other

I think that a lot of people have a misunderstanding of the downed state…

See, in my mind, if you are downed, you are basically screwed. You just have one tiny chance of MAYBE surviving if things go your way. But normally, I think that you should wind up dying in PvP like at least 80% of the time you are downed, unless you are in a big zerg.

So I really don’t see an issue with getting stomped irresistably when downed. Fact is, you shouldn’t have got downed in the first place.

Kind of surprised to hear someone complaining about it being too easy to stomp. Most of the complaints are the other way ’round.

omphin.1752:

More like, if you are downed and you take damage from a player then it should slow the reviving process. If you are spiked then you should automatically return to the nearest spawn point or switch to map so you cannot see till you pick a spawn point, you should not be allowed to be revived after being spiked.

You would be allowed to be revived if you were downed and finished from range and not spiked.

That would sort alot of the bull with 1 good player that can beat 4 people yet those 4 keep reviving each other

Yeah man, I am with you.

I always roll with a small group of skilled players in WvW, and we can normally take on at least twice our number. Problem is though, if that group just decides to chain revive…it is EXTREMELY difficult to kill anyone. We will burn most of our CDs killing most of the enemy, but then the survivors will just chain revive all the downed people…and we will have to wind up running.

The power of combat rez is an annoying mechanic that favors skill-less zergs over small organized elite squads.

Creslin.1758:

Yeah man, I am with you.

I always roll with a small group of skilled players in WvW, and we can normally take on at least twice our number. Problem is though, if that group just decides to chain revive…it is EXTREMELY difficult to kill anyone. We will burn most of our CDs killing most of the enemy, but then the survivors will just chain revive all the downed people…and we will have to wind up running.

The power of combat rez is an annoying mechanic that favors skill-less zergs over small organized elite squads.

The whole Game is about favouring “The Less-Skilled Ones”.
This is why a bigger Zerg will always beet the crap out of another smaller one.
This is also why you can’t kill a Zerg with just one group. Well, it’s the 5-Target-AE-Restrictment, but hey, who gets the advantage out of that?

They want everyone to have fun and faceroll through the game.
Even Guys in there downstate. You got owned and still have the chance to get up or have your buddy reviving you.

Sry if that sounds more like a rant, but … well, it is.

Shadow Refuge??

Shadow Refuge has a 60-second cooldown. You can reduce it to 48 if you run a trait that almost nobody uses in WvW/PvP.

If a thief is blowing Shadow Refuge to stomp you, it means he managed to kill you without having to use up that Shadow Refuge. Sounds pretty fair to me. Same with a warrior blowing Balanced Stance to get a stomp in, or an ele even having to run Mist Form on his bar. Someone rolled you without using utilities? That easy stomp is their reward.

Remove stealth-stomping and competent thieves will still stomp you every time, anyway. Because Signet of Shadows (practically ubiquitous in WvW for the movement buff) eats cute little downed-state interrupts for breakfast.

Sick of Unskilled QQcopters coming to forum and every time they cry my class get nerfed.

Anet Please give Thiefs the Ability to Summon – Protoss Mothership.

(Mothership behaves like the Arbiter: it cloaks and recalls friendly units, and may temporarily disable units. The ship’s long ranged attack allows it to contribute firepower from behind the front; it may also fire on the move. The mothership is the only unit able to survive a direct hit from a nuke. )

I’m not joking anymore for every nerf Anet do to thiefs we should get an equal to power buff.

What a silly thing to complain about.. The downed state in PvP is a pathetically lame mechanic in the first place. Should be straight to defeated, and if your friendlies wanna res you, then it should take a decent amount of time..

I’ve been trying to just use the time people spend rezzing as free hits on them. Once they start rezzing their buddy, I swap targets and unload on the rezzer. Then it’s back to 2vs1 again, only with both at half health.

Soloing is incredibly hard because of the downed state, but that’s probably as it should be. It makes me feel awesome when I do win.

Creslin.1758:

omphin.1752:

More like, if you are downed and you take damage from a player then it should slow the reviving process. If you are spiked then you should automatically return to the nearest spawn point or switch to map so you cannot see till you pick a spawn point, you should not be allowed to be revived after being spiked.

You would be allowed to be revived if you were downed and finished from range and not spiked.

That would sort alot of the bull with 1 good player that can beat 4 people yet those 4 keep reviving each other

Yeah man, I am with you.

I always roll with a small group of skilled players in WvW, and we can normally take on at least twice our number. Problem is though, if that group just decides to chain revive…it is EXTREMELY difficult to kill anyone. We will burn most of our CDs killing most of the enemy, but then the survivors will just chain revive all the downed people…and we will have to wind up running.

The power of combat rez is an annoying mechanic that favors skill-less zergs over small organized elite squads.

I get your point, but at the same time I can’t help but think that the scenario you laid out is actually reasonable and fair. You’re talking about taking out at least twice the number of opponents … what you make up for in skill, they made up for in numbers. If they bring any less to the fight, you stomp them and move on. This way, it’s a wash.

And I find that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I don’t think everything should be watered down so talent plays no role, but I don’t think you should be Beatrix Kiddo while everyone else is the Crazy 88’s either.

Ummmmmmm… as an Elementalist, I can assure you, you cannot stomp in mist form. The option doesn’t even come up. You can’t do anything but move and jump. Given the number of times I’ve been stealth stomped, I wish it were otherwise.

Agree 100% that a finishing move should be considered a Offensive Combat Action and not allow a player to remain stealthed.

Also agree that finishes should be considered offensive and break stealth when they start, but to keep it fair ressing somebody should also break stealth.

But only because they seem to be edge cases as much as anything. Any kind of ability breaks stealth, finishing somebody is clearly an attack. It seems to break the game’s own stealth rules that it does not. Same with rezzzing somebody.

Both rezzing somebody and finishing somebody triggers one tick of confusion, so it obviously seems that they are intended to behave like any ability, yet stealth decides it doesn’t want to follow the rules.

--------------
Though I also agree that it’s a low priority, if somebody wants to stomp you, and they have nobody trying to stop them but you, you WILL be stomped. I haven’t seen a single class yet that can avoid being stomped with just their downed abilities.

*Warrior gets his hammer and vengeance. The warrior can use his hammer once, but vengeance takes longer than 2 finish animations to go off cooldown, has a one second cast time on top of that, and they will just stomp themselves using it if they are not traited or don’t manage to kill something in 8 seconds. A warrior can only interrupt one finish with the hammer..

*Rangers can call their pet to start ressing them a while after they are downed, and just have a single AoE interrupt to stop a stomp. Unlike the warrior, while their pet is ressing them, they can still be stomped. (Spirit rangers that know they are going down can activate their nature renewal spirit with perfect timing to insta-res themselves, but that isn’t a downed ability, and requires a support spec. Yes I’m tired of people calling my ranger a hacker.)

*Elementalists can mist form a few feet away, Mesmers can make clones while keeping their big "stomp me" sign over their real character, and Thieves can stealth and teleport a few feet away. All of those just equate to being stomped over here instead of over there. Woo.

*Guardians knock everyone away, which is about as effective as the ranger lightning, unless you get lucky and are near a cliff.

*Necros seem to be able to channel a health drain, which in my experience is always a too little too late deal. And a fear which is about as useful as the guardian barrier.

*And I have no clue what engineers do to avoid stomps, I don’t have one, and I’ve never noticed them manage anything meaningful to stop me.

^^
It all equates to, quickness, stability, and stealth just quickening the inevitable. If you are down, and somebody is focused on killing you, you are defeated without outside assistance.

I keep telling you guys: doesn’t make a difference.

Any competent ally can hit a stealth-stomping thief just as easily as a non-stealthed one. Because he’s still just gonna be standing in one place, right next to you.

If you don’t have an ally nearby and aren’t an ele or mesmer, you will be stomped by a thief without stealth on the very first try.

So, this proposed change affects:
1. Crappy thieves who don’t understand downed states and timing.
2. Being downed with a bunch of allies who’d rather hang out at 1200 range than actually move their butts to come to your aid. (I really don’t want to reward this.)

EDITED: Nevermind, turns out you can just blind necros.

Once an engi is down and there are nobody to rez or no nearby mobs about to die, that engi is dead. The engi downed skills are just sad.

MissDemeanor.9253:

Ummmmmmm… as an Elementalist, I can assure you, you cannot stomp in mist form. The option doesn’t even come up. You can’t do anything but move and jump. Given the number of times I’ve been stealth stomped, I wish it were otherwise.

Don’t you start the stomp and then use the mist form utility? That way, as with all other utilities you continue the stomp action but are invulnerable. This works on the basis that generally everyone waits til the last moment to use their interupt so as to reduce their 3 skill cool down so you will not be interrupted between the start of the stomp and you hitting mist form utility.

As for the OP there are many many things that need to be fixed in WvW frankly this one isn’t one. If you are 1v1 then you are going to die if you hit downed form and your opponent is no where near it, invulnerable stomping or not is irrelevant.

If you are with allies then if res’ing you is important enough then they should devote their efforts towards it and stop a stomp. AOE push/pulls, blinds and CC will deal with most stomps, as far as I’m aware. That leaves you with classes using proper invulnerability skills, Mesmer shatter 4, Mist Form or the engineer elixir (S I think? The shrinking one), one would suggest that a “free stomp” is probably a reasonable exchange for blowing a full on invulnerability cool down, especially in the middle of a zerg fight. Plus none of these prevent people res’ing before the stomp completes.

If you’re downed maybe you should kill that doe sitting right beside you and rally instead of QQing about the inevitable stomp your unimaginative mind is about to get.

Yes I’m pretty sure we all know we can kill some pulled mob or another, but I call that outside assistance. Even with that, in the case of some classes your enemy can position themselves between you and the mob so they bodyblock all the thrown rocks.

Again I’m just saying stealth stomping should just be removed because it’s inconsistent with the rest of the system, not because I think it’s cheap.

The game encourages teamwork because a team that is aware of each other and rezzes will beat a team of cowboys who only know how to kill. People who QQ about “skill” usually have an abnormally narrow definition of skill that has no relation to “being successful at the game.”

It’s important for larger groups to have an advantage in a fight, because part of the overall skill of WvW is the strategy of where you commit your troops, and how many you move there.

We’ve seen smaller groups or even solo players defeat or hinder larger groups with the right build or skills, so it’s not like it’s impossible. But it is and should be an uphill battle.

You can indeed stomp in mist form. Start Stomp → Mist Form → Finish Stomp

Downed states are already insanely overpowered. It needn’t be buffed in any way, shape, or form.

You lost. Deal with being finished. Other classes have far, far better ways than stealth to finish, by the way.

If anything, downed states need nerfed. Hard.

Yea I see no issue with this. I either have to blow a pet swap cooldown or my QZ utility skill on a 45 sec cooldown to get a quickness stomp.

Greiger.7092:

Again I’m just saying stealth stomping should just be removed because it’s inconsistent with the rest of the system, not because I think it’s cheap.

How exactly is it inconsistent? I’m no fan of the finishing move and I do like the downed state, but I see no difference between stealth finishing and stealth resing someone. You can use utilities and skills to both help your team members get back up and to keep the enemy from doing the same with their team.

Greiger.7092:

It all equates to, quickness, stability, and stealth just quickening the inevitable. If you are down, and somebody is focused on killing you, you are defeated without outside assistance.

Pretty much.

Stealth stomping is only a huge advantage in 1v1, so what people really have a problem with is getting downed first 1v1, then failing to come back and defeat their opponent.

If you get downed first in 1v1, you are going to lose regardless of professions. If the situation isn’t 1v1, then stealth isn’t an issue.

Vv W.7821:

Greiger.7092:

Again I’m just saying stealth stomping should just be removed because it’s inconsistent with the rest of the system, not because I think it’s cheap.

How exactly is it inconsistent? I’m no fan of the finishing move and I do like the downed state, but I see no difference between stealth finishing and stealth resing someone. You can use utilities and skills to both help your team members get back up and to keep the enemy from doing the same with their team.

1. There is a trait that generates a Shadow Sanctuary when rezzing. To have rezzing break stealth makes that trait totally useless.

2. Rezzing someone is not an attack.

3. Stomping someone is the single most influential attack you can do in combat.

Can someone please delete or merge all these similar posts?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vv W.7821:

Greiger.7092:

Again I’m just saying stealth stomping should just be removed because it’s inconsistent with the rest of the system, not because I think it’s cheap.

How exactly is it inconsistent? I’m no fan of the finishing move and I do like the downed state, but I see no difference between stealth finishing and stealth resing someone. You can use utilities and skills to both help your team members get back up and to keep the enemy from doing the same with their team.

1. There is a trait that generates a Shadow Sanctuary when rezzing. To have rezzing break stealth makes that trait totally useless.

2. Rezzing someone is not an attack.

3. Stomping someone is the single most influential attack you can do in combat.

But nobody requests stealth to be broken on a successful stomp, but instead when a stomp has begun, which is not consistent with how even damaging attacks work. Even if you equate stomp to a regular attack, logic dictates that it wouldn’t break stealth unless the spike is successful.

Shouldn’t this be in the suggestions sub-forum?

When I take a swing at you, I’m stealthed until my attack actually hits. In fact, if I miss, you never see me at all. So why insist that beginning a stomp should expose you?

If there’s anything that’s a bit off about stealth and stomping, it’s that stealthing the downed guy blocks stomp. This is rather inconsistent with the way attacks that would hit a stealthed guy anyway still correctly connect and do damage. (Fixing this would require changing thief downed skill 3 to actually do something, though.)

ASP.8093:

When I take a swing at you, I’m stealthed until my attack actually hits. In fact, if I miss, you never see me at all. So why insist that beginning a stomp should expose you?

If there’s anything that’s a bit off about stealth and stomping, it’s that stealthing the downed guy blocks stomp. This is rather inconsistent with the way attacks that would hit a stealthed guy anyway still correctly connect and do damage. (Fixing this would require changing thief downed skill 3 to actually do something, though.)

It is only inconsistent if you consider stomping an attack, which the game currently does not in any sense. If stealth broke on a successful stomp, it would be inconsistent to have stealth be able to block stomps. As it stands, however, stomp acts consistently as a channeled action, but not an attack.

MissDemeanor.9253:

Ummmmmmm… as an Elementalist, I can assure you, you cannot stomp in mist form. The option doesn’t even come up. You can’t do anything but move and jump. Given the number of times I’ve been stealth stomped, I wish it were otherwise.

Wrong….start the stomp then pop mist form, then come back and tell me Im a God

Yes this seriously needs to go. Invisiblity should break when finishing or rezzing. This is even more of a problem in spvp imo, where rezzing someone will turn the whole battle even more easily.

I have no serious problem with most of other effects than stealth, however. Most of them have cooldowns and are more difficult to time and can be countered by various means i.e. you know there’s a guy standing there and doing finishing move you can just use interrupting ability or knockback or whatsoever many times until it works so there’s actually some difficulty there.

I don’t really care either way, but even if finishing were to count as an attack the stealth would be removed after the attack hit. Stealth is never removed when an attack is started, only when an attack hits. Removing stealth when a stomp starts makes absolutely no sense.

It’s a tactic available to everyone in the game… what real reasons are there for getting rid of it that couldn’t apply to any other tactic people complain about?

• Necromancers arnt allowed to stomp in Death Shroud.
• Elementalists arnt allowed to stomp in Mist Form.
• No-one is allowed to stomp in a elite transformation.

No-one should be allowed to stomp in stealth.

Cant be any clearer then that.

Ascii.9726:

• Necromancers arnt allowed to stomp in Death Shroud.
• Elementalists arnt allowed to stomp in Mist Form.
• No-one is allowed to stomp in a elite transformation.

No-one should be allowed to stomp in stealth.

Cant be any clearer then that.

Why? You can revive in stealth.

And seriously…you are DOWNED…you are basically on death’s door. Dying in downed without a chance of retaliation is really not a problem. Stability kills most prof’s downed state most of the time anyway.

Creslin.1758:

Why? You can revive in stealth.

And seriously…you are DOWNED…you are basically on death’s door. Dying in downed without a chance of retaliation is really not a problem. Stability kills most prof’s downed state most of the time anyway.

Guaranteed stomp w/o being damaged by the downed player for one or two classes, nothing for everyone else. Seems fair.

so what im seeing in this thread:
It’s okay for warrior and guard to cast stability and stomp
it’s okay for haste stomping
it’s okay this and that
but it’s not okay for stealth stomping…

such a joke.
let me tell you
stability can’t be stopped, stealth can easily be stop by knock them back/pull them away or even aoe the area… im sure no thief would be stupid enough to get that one stomp in exchange for his/her own life.. .
and downed state is a death door…

what more is shadow refuge is 60 secs cooldown… yeah… 60 secs to be able to stomp somebody… OP!

I agree with Enenion

Stealth stomping is infinitely worse than quickness stomping.

I think the problem here is players are not as good as they’d like to think they are! So many small groups complaining about downed state and how its impossible to take larger numbers. Ever thought maybe you’re just not that great? Maybe you’re doing it wrong? Maybe your teamwork is not efficient enough, or you’re making too many mistakes?

Because my small group of 3-7 kills groups of 30+ in droves and has been doing it for about 2 months now. People dropping down to rez is usually a death sentence for them. It’s all about those interrupts and aoe damage on stacking players.

It’s important to know how to stay alive when facing larger groups… because if you die die, then you just rallied 8 people.

If you’re having trouble with stealth stomping why not fight fire with fire and try stealth resing! Or knockback, or teamwork to the point where you can just res people faster than others can stomp without quickness. There’s literally things in game already to help you fight stealth stomping, you just have to use them.

Nerf downed abilities so people don’t have to burn utilities just to finish off a downed player

MissDemeanor.9253:

Ummmmmmm… as an Elementalist, I can assure you, you cannot stomp in mist form. The option doesn’t even come up. You can’t do anything but move and jump. Given the number of times I’ve been stealth stomped, I wish it were otherwise.

An elementalist complains about downed, the class that can travel the furthest and can go inside their tower/keep if they are downed outside of it and they can do this while invulnerable…ridiculous

You can stomp in mist form, you only have to start the animation of the stomp and then use the mist form.

I actually really like to be able to finish people like that, mostly during hollow hours, when they are something like 40-50 people night caping the whole map and you are less than 10 people to defend. I just go down and kill one guy that is in the middle (not the closest to me) of the crowd. If i can get the chance to do it, i stomp 2 in a row, because i can, as i’m using dagger/focus