It's a question of balance......

It's a question of balance......

in WvW

Posted by: SoPP.7034

SoPP.7034

Mike and the crew have continually said that once they have the servers balanced many issues people have will be negated, which is incorrect.

People making statements about ‘free transfers’ and ‘Night Capping’ is actually more of a symptom rather than the problem.

I posted on this during the BWE and the issues haven’t been addressed, certain problems we are facing now are a result of this:

When WvW becomes 1 zerg beats all!

SoPP.7034

This topic has been covered in part elsewhere from what I’ve read but not specifically.

People have stated that the problem is free transfers, bad match ups etc. That if a side is dominating your side should change strategy and go fight somewhere else etc. While important to consider I think the problem needs to be explored a little deeper.

If sides are lucky enough to remain balanced it should make for good WvW. However, as 1 side reaches a certain level of dominance a number of things will happen.

The other 2 sides will struggle against the trend. They will inevitably still compete and maybe 1 will even turn the tide but all that will happen then is you will replace 1 who perhaps was going to dominate with another that will dominate.

As this dominance builds up a snowball affect ensures.

The losing sides will start to bleed players, seeing there hard work go to waste they will no longer participate. The people that have just logged on will be less inclined to join WvW seeing the work to come back from that critical mass is too great.

Concurrently the side dominating will retain its player base better and additionally encourage others to keep joining, seeing their positive stature within WvW.

Then we see the inevitable failures start to bleed through as people stop playing or look for ways to join the winning side.

With this in mind there has to be a way to stop a side from completely dominating the map. A way that keeps all sides motivated to keep playing irrespective of if they are winning or losing.

A way that will encourage the other sides to keep competing even though they may be losing while ensuring that the side winning is not being punished for having done so. This balance must be struck because unless a side is in some way a “professional” WvW server, most people looking to have fun wont join if their side if is losing or getting punished unfairly and opt to do something else.

We must remember too that ‘WvW is designed to accommodate players that would not normally participate in PvP’, according to Anet. In sPvP noobs should be owned, obviously, in WvW there must be systems in place to attempt to maintain some form of balance.

Ideally if the worst WvW server were to be matched against the best WvW server, the best one will win (obviously), but not to the extent that they can dominate 100% of the map with no capacity for the other server to reply.

Ideas?
- Review the types of under-dog bonuses.
- 2 sides join against one when a certain threshold is met.
- Home borderland areas are easier for home team to take and hold.

Its something that needs to be considered otherwise the end result of each match up is in most cases going to be one side that has crushed 2 others.

Your thoughts?

A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”

(edited by SoPP.7034)

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: Furry Fury.9036

Furry Fury.9036

Heya,

I agree that ‘night capping’ is symptomatic.

Ease of transfers is definitely a problem.

Unlimited free transfers skew the stats in a number of ways, including both the desired population shifts but also by match fixing tactics such as logging on to an opponent’s server (agents provocateur, supply disruption etc.). These are two very different problems, but nonetheless affect the match up of servers.

However, free transfers need to stay in place for a number of reasons.

Review the types of under-dog bonuses. Yes please!

Have fun

(edited by Furry Fury.9036)

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: Krathalos.3461

Krathalos.3461

Honestly, upgrade system is ridiculous. It makes the night capping issue even worse. All you have to do is capture all bases when the other server has very few players still in WvW and then upgrade them. By the time the other servers get on, they basically have no hope.

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: stealthmonkey.1563

stealthmonkey.1563

Honestly, upgrade system is ridiculous. It makes the night capping issue even worse. All you have to do is capture all bases when the other server has very few players still in WvW and then upgrade them. By the time the other servers get on, they basically have no hope.

Why should they have hope? they’ve abandonded a battlefield for 12 hours and are crying that the enemy took that time to set up a few canons?

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: Garas.8530

Garas.8530

Ideally if the worst WvW server were to be matched against the best WvW server, the best one will win (obviously), but not to the extent that they can dominate 100% of the map with no capacity for the other server to reply.

Ideally though, with a functioning ranking system, the worst server shouldn’t ever go up against the best.

On the night-capping:

I know this might sound silly, but how about not showing us the points for all three servers anymore? I mean, if I’m not mistaking, all they really do is level up through buffs to our own server. So all we really need is to see our own progress. It’s only because we can see the massive lead in points one server has over the other two, that has a lot of people upset because they can’t ‘catch up’ with the leader anymore.

I play on Far Shiverpeaks myself and in the weekends I think it’s fair to say we’re actually the more dominant server in our group. But our effort doesn’t feel at all so rewarding after seeing our pointlead turned upside down over night on monday morning. If we couldn’t see the other server’s points, maybe we would just enjoy taking back the keeps we can in our peak time and generally have a fun WvW experience? Then during the night we don’t have to worry about losing a lot of points to whichever server can nightcap the most. Yes it sucks to lose upgraded keeps over night, but surely it wouldn’t feel so bad to take back our territories during the day if we didn’t have to think about how many points we have to score to get even.

Ofcourse, this only works when a server is actually able to take back the points during peak times and if wvw is genuinly balanced between servers during this time. I still think proper matchmaking is very important. Ideally, switching matchups often, would also ensure there’s no real sense of only one/few servers dominating.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: Krathalos.3461

Krathalos.3461

Abandoning a battlefield for 12 hours is very different from actually going to sleep. Some servers don’t have as crowded a night group as others, and this is far too large an issue. You seriously expect the day crew to stay up all night just to hold an equal battle in WvW? There is nothing they should have to do about that, and just because one server might have more players in a different time zone than another doesn’t mean they all of a sudden deserve to win.

Something needs to happen for night. It’s honestly ridiculous that a war can be won so easily. I’m on Northern Shiverpeaks, and the war we’re currently in has us in the lead by 300k points simply because we captured everything on the first night and upgraded it all. It’s insanely boring, and the other servers have given up hope. It’s just not fun for any of the servers involved. The strongest server should win, and right now, I’m not sure if that’s going to happen with how crucial the night time is for WvW.

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Posted by: gloombot.3519

gloombot.3519

stealthmonkey.1563

Krathalos.3461:
Honestly, upgrade system is ridiculous. It makes the night capping issue even worse. All you have to do is capture all bases when the other server has very few players still in WvW and then upgrade them. By the time the other servers get on, they basically have no hope.

Why should they have hope? they’ve abandonded a battlefield for 12 hours and are crying that the enemy took that time to set up a few canons?

Love this guy. It makes so much sense it’s hard to imagine anyone would ever think otherwise. Thank you, stealthmonkey.

Doom Bot – One Man Riot [iRez] – Maguuma – Guardian

It's a question of balance......

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Posted by: SoPP.7034

SoPP.7034

Garas.8530

Ideally though, with a functioning ranking system, the worst server shouldn’t ever go up against the best.

SoPP.7034:

Obviously. The context of the article tho is about balance. In this instance you would prop up the lesser server so they would still have the capacity to respond to the greater one. Therefore making a game of it still, knowing that the greater server was going to win but find it difficult to dominate 100%.

A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”