Must be nice down there in Sorrow Furnace going up against nothing. Come to the higher tiers and enjoy the rain of AC fire in hills and bay.
Must be nice having enough numbers to amass melee zergs and forget how to use offensive ranged siege. Owait … maybe that was the point. Coming from a server that is accused of excess zergs, I am well aware of how easily a stupid zerg can wipe with this change, and I approve.
These ad hominems are just as stupid as the nerf AC arguments.
Players QQ’d for the longest time how easy it is to brute force a castle with a larger zerg. What they forgot to tell Anet was that they only wanted the gate to have like a 100% health increase, so it would take them twice as long to #1 bash it down.
Now Anet actually put some effort in their attempt to cater to the imbecile tear jerkers and made tactics a somewhat viable option in WvW. Of course that’s way too advanced for the average QQ’er who now cry over it instead, since Anet also were kind to finally nerf the Mesmer to the ground in this patch. When they nerf AC it’s probably back to thieves again.
I hope they at least give it plenty of time to see if they solve more/bigger problems than they create.
I tend to think they will make the strong stronger and therefore the weak weaker though, i.e., the servers with guilds/leadership in place and good at taking care of siege building and refreshing, and controlling supply flow. These ACs are certainly more powerful than before, but the despawn timers are working, and aggressive (2 mins on dropped prints with no supply, 5 mins between supply drops, 30 mins between refresh). It’s going to take a lot more baby sitting to make sure supplies used on siege doesn’t go to waste due to despawning and that means discipline and communication.
Yeah, i think ANET’s rational is quite simple, they want to discourage whole zerg ram-rush down doors and make siege last longer. Now we have to wait to see if this change is too much or people can adapt.
Yeah, i think ANET’s rational is quite simple, they want to discourage whole zerg ram-rush down doors and make siege last longer. Now we have to wait to see if this change is too much or people can adapt.
That doesn’t really explain it, given that all skills still have a target cap of 5. Zergs are still the way to go. It does no good running in small groups on the open field when a zerg will run you over, and now that a small group can hold a keep with arrow cart spam you’ll never get the door down before a zerg responds and… runs you over. Zergs are STILL king here. Zerg with arrow carts > small gang with arrow carts.
I absolutely hate it when people bring up DAoC on these forums. I really do. It’s a different game from a different time and has little relation to GW2 other than having a large-scale PvP zone. Even so, does no other old-timer remember why everyone zerged around Emain every day?
It was because taking keeps was a royal pain in the neck that took a long time and gave an overwhelming advantage to the defender, unless your side was very fast at getting the doors down or highly organized with siege and tactics.
So, where’s the new Emain going to be? EB seems like a bad place for it, as it’s too congested with structures.
They will obviously adjust it if need be. Their biggest clue will be is if they see the WvW population go down across the board. I noticed last night there were less people on the field, and there was also no que time.
I say give it a couple of weeks.. if this persists, I’m sure they will adjust it.
Nice way of killing the game for the people who only play WvW :/ going to check out some other game to play :S
LoL is a good place to start if you want balanced PvP and a game where the Devs play the game instead of try to apease the QQers on the forums with little to no idea what their “fix” will break. I say the new game meta should be ACs surrounding spawns to farm them bags…get it coordinated on all maps and like a 5 man team to take the rest of the map…lol.
Why can’t that zerg build catapults out of AC range and pound the wall down? Is it the single neuron used by the entire zerg has been already burned in to stack on the door and build rams in AC fire?
Nice way of killing the game for the people who only play WvW :/ going to check out some other game to play :S
LoL is a good place to start if you want balanced PvP and a game where the Devs play the game instead of try to apease the QQers on the forums with little to no idea what their “fix” will break. I say the new game meta should be ACs surrounding spawns to farm them bags…get it coordinated on all maps and like a 5 man team to take the rest of the map…lol.
We’re actually considering doing this in VoTF. Camping the EB spawn on reset, AC’s on all 3 exits, lets see them tears!
Why can’t that zerg build catapults out of AC range and pound the wall down? Is it the single neuron used by the entire zerg has been already burned in to stack on the door and build rams in AC fire?
Short Answer = Yes.
Long Answer = It’s harder, doesn’t always work, can be countered, takes longer, and doesn’t make for Epic PVP moments (which bores lots of people, apparently).
They will obviously adjust it if need be. Their biggest clue will be is if they see the WvW population go down across the board. I noticed last night there were less people on the field, and there was also no que time.
I say give it a couple of weeks.. if this persists, I’m sure they will adjust it.
I doubt it since there will be more temptation to make micro transactions to transfer to gold for mats and ACs to keep an army of them on the field.
Money, money, money…nom nom nom.
He who has the largest Zerg with the most ACs will now be king…not just the largest Zerg.
Nice way of killing the game for the people who only play WvW :/ going to check out some other game to play :S
LoL is a good place to start if you want balanced PvP and a game where the Devs play the game instead of try to apease the QQers on the forums with little to no idea what their “fix” will break. I say the new game meta should be ACs surrounding spawns to farm them bags…get it coordinated on all maps and like a 5 man team to take the rest of the map…lol.
We’re actually considering doing this in VoTF. Camping the EB spawn on reset, AC’s on all 3 exits, lets see them tears!
If you do this please link the YouTubes. I could use a great laugh.
Nice way of killing the game for the people who only play WvW :/ going to check out some other game to play :S
LoL is a good place to start if you want balanced PvP and a game where the Devs play the game instead of try to apease the QQers on the forums with little to no idea what their “fix” will break. I say the new game meta should be ACs surrounding spawns to farm them bags…get it coordinated on all maps and like a 5 man team to take the rest of the map…lol.
We’re actually considering doing this in VoTF. Camping the EB spawn on reset, AC’s on all 3 exits, lets see them tears!
Don’t consider it…do it. After all the QQers wanted this to get rid of Zergs not thinking that that may people with the same access to ACs in open field would make them easier targets.
Bags taste like happy!
Love the youtube vid you guys did for this patch btw.
They will obviously adjust it if need be. Their biggest clue will be is if they see the WvW population go down across the board. I noticed last night there were less people on the field, and there was also no que time.
I suspect last night was not business as usual for a lot of players. There were a lot of changes to research, digest, and test. Heck, it took me 15 minutes just to figure out that the Daily requirements for PvP had changed and another 30 minutes or so to complete them.
Here’s an example of how weak an AC was. I clearly remember standing in QL’s LR back in December. An invader was trying to pass along the north side in the shallow water. I was raining arrows on him and barely slowed him down. A teammate came in and killed him.
The corpse persisted to stay there thus, I kept watch. A minute later here comes along another invader. I go full bore on him with the AC as soon as he’s within range. He successfully limped in, rezzed the corpse, and they both hobbled away.
How was an AC not pathetically week if this can occur? It needed a buff to become a realistic siege engine.
Here i an example .use 6 superior acs and 1shot 50 ppl.use 12 acs and make hole in the ground till u see the sky in china from it. Add 80% more dps .You just oneshoted this game’s future for other than not a solo player that likes to stay semiafk listening music on an OP 50 man ownagemachine.
Ps .Biggest problem is not damage even if it’s more than overkill,but that a ram can only survive for 1 and a half second wich is uterrly ridiculous.They should at least make rams invulnerable from acs to make them even slightly relevant.
Here’s an example of how weak an AC was. I clearly remember standing in QL’s LR back in December. An invader was trying to pass along the north side in the shallow water. I was raining arrows on him and barely slowed him down. A teammate came in and killed him.
The corpse persisted to stay there thus, I kept watch. A minute later here comes along another invader. I go full bore on him with the AC as soon as he’s within range. He successfully limped in, rezzed the corpse, and they both hobbled away.
How was an AC not pathetically week if this can occur? It needed a buff to become a realistic siege engine.
Here i an example .use 6 superior acs and 1shot 50 ppl.use 12 acs and make hole in the ground till u see the sky in china from it. Add 80% more dps .You just oneshoted this game’s future for other than not a solo player that likes to stay semiafk listening music on an OP 50 man ownagemachine.
Ps .Biggest problem is not damage even if it’s more than overkill,but that a ram can only sutvive for 1 and a half second wich is uterrly ridiculous.They should at least make rams invulnerable from acs to make them even slightly relevant.
Ok, sure.
But then anyone on a cannon should be made invulnerable to make them more relavent.
The arguments here really demonstrate the difference between two play styles in wvw. People who prefer proper siege warfare like the change and people who like open field fights and only use objectives as focal points to find action hate this change.
It’s hard to fill the desire of both groups at once, maybe instead of complaining about the change, the second group should encourage ANET to tweak the mechanisms to encourage more open field battles? I think this change is good for the siege warfare aspect of WvW (the range of AC needs some tweaking) and who knows it may actually create more opportunities for open field battles as well (like more open field siege battles, and more efforts at blocking reinforcements etc).
A reasonable line of thought, though I don’t think your premise is completely correct. Players who prefer the open field battles are actually quite unaffected by the arrow cart buff, since you do not usually find that many arrow carts in the open field.
From my perspective this case more demonstrates the difference between the “extended siege warfare play style” crowd and the “but i want my loot/karma/wxp/whatever now, instantly, without having to earn it or to change anything in the current way i optimized my play style” crowd. A shift in the meta forces the latter group out of their comfort zone, and hence the 18+ pages mega thread. Filling the desire of these two groups at once is just as much a dilemma as the one you illustrated.
Having said that, I am all for giving the “open field battle play style” crowd something they like. Maybe an additional map with non-fortified capture objectives only that contribute to the PPT? This would allow for a very different type of skirmish WvW side by side with the existing siege warfare WvW. (Just an idea, who knows if this would work.)
~MRA
IGN: Peavy (Asuran Engineer)
Tyrian Intelligence Agency [TIA]
Dies for Riverside on a regular basis, since the betas
Here’s an example of how weak an AC was. I clearly remember standing in QL’s LR back in December. An invader was trying to pass along the north side in the shallow water. I was raining arrows on him and barely slowed him down. A teammate came in and killed him.
The corpse persisted to stay there thus, I kept watch. A minute later here comes along another invader. I go full bore on him with the AC as soon as he’s within range. He successfully limped in, rezzed the corpse, and they both hobbled away.
How was an AC not pathetically week if this can occur? It needed a buff to become a realistic siege engine.
Here i an example .use 6 superior acs and 1shot 50 ppl.use 12 acs and make hole in the ground till u see the sky in china from it. Add 80% more dps .You just oneshoted this game’s future for other than not a solo player that likes to stay semiafk listening music on an OP 50 man ownagemachine.
Ps .Biggest problem is not damage even if it’s more than overkill,but that a ram can only sutvive for 1 and a half second wich is uterrly ridiculous.They should at least make rams invulnerable from acs to make them even slightly relevant.
Ok, sure.
But then anyone on a cannon should be made invulnerable to make them more relavent.
Wtb some logic in your reply .People on rams get 20-30k damage per second by acs.Same for ppl shooting at canon.
Calm down everyone. Last week was take our daughter’s and sons to work day. I’m sure one of them accidentally made the AC change. This is clearly broken.
Calm down everyone. Last week was take our daughter’s and sons to work day. I’m sure one of them accidentally made the AC change. This is clearly broken.
Most reasonable explanation yet. I have been trying to understand for hours how this could have happened and I think you finally solved it.
This mistake does not fix zerging (if anything it encourages bigger zerging)
it does not balance defence/offence
it does not encourage fighting
it doesn’t even create real siege wars as they are out of balance now.
It does look like the work of a child, a child with very good intentions but a very short sighted vision.
P.S. My most reasonable explanation before you gave me this was that they were just a month late with april fool’s
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
The arguments here really demonstrate the difference between two play styles in wvw. People who prefer proper siege warfare like the change and people who like open field fights and only use objectives as focal points to find action hate this change.
It’s hard to fill the desire of both groups at once, maybe instead of complaining about the change, the second group should encourage ANET to tweak the mechanisms to encourage more open field battles? I think this change is good for the siege warfare aspect of WvW (the range of AC needs some tweaking) and who knows it may actually create more opportunities for open field battles as well (like more open field siege battles, and more efforts at blocking reinforcements etc).
A reasonable line of thought, though I don’t think your premise is completely correct. Players who prefer the open field battles are actually quite unaffected by the arrow cart buff, since you do not usually find that many arrow carts in the open field.
From my perspective this case more demonstrates the difference between the “extended siege warfare play style” crowd and the “but i want my loot/karma/wxp/whatever now, instantly, without having to earn it or to change anything in the current way i optimized my play style” crowd. A shift in the meta forces the latter group out of their comfort zone, and hence the 18+ pages mega thread. Filling the desire of these two groups at once is just as much a dilemma as the one you illustrated.
Having said that, I am all for giving the “open field battle play style” crowd something they like. Maybe an additional map with non-fortified capture objectives only that contribute to the PPT? This would allow for a very different type of skirmish WvW side by side with the existing siege warfare WvW. (Just an idea, who knows if this would work.)
The fact that, out of the blue, they buffed ACs by over 100% for no apparent reason already should indicate someone calling the shots really doesn’t have much of an idea what they’re doing.
How often, in any game, for something that’s already balanced, do you see it randomly boosted by over 100%?
I’m 100% in favor of changing the zerg blob meta but… More towards roaming/strike teams… ANET why do we want treb wars???
The fact that, out of the blue, they buffed ACs by over 100% for no apparent reason already should indicate someone calling the shots really doesn’t have much of an idea what they’re doing.
How often, in any game, for something that’s already balanced, do you see it randomly boosted by over 100%?
I’m 100% in favor of changing the zerg blob meta but… More towards roaming/strike teams… ANET why do we want treb wars???
The arguments here really demonstrate the difference between two play styles in wvw. People who prefer proper siege warfare like the change and people who like open field fights and only use objectives as focal points to find action hate this change.
It’s hard to fill the desire of both groups at once, maybe instead of complaining about the change, the second group should encourage ANET to tweak the mechanisms to encourage more open field battles? I think this change is good for the siege warfare aspect of WvW (the range of AC needs some tweaking) and who knows it may actually create more opportunities for open field battles as well (like more open field siege battles, and more efforts at blocking reinforcements etc).
A reasonable line of thought, though I don’t think your premise is completely correct. Players who prefer the open field battles are actually quite unaffected by the arrow cart buff, since you do not usually find that many arrow carts in the open field.
From my perspective this case more demonstrates the difference between the “extended siege warfare play style” crowd and the “but i want my loot/karma/wxp/whatever now, instantly, without having to earn it or to change anything in the current way i optimized my play style” crowd. A shift in the meta forces the latter group out of their comfort zone, and hence the 18+ pages mega thread. Filling the desire of these two groups at once is just as much a dilemma as the one you illustrated.
Having said that, I am all for giving the “open field battle play style” crowd something they like. Maybe an additional map with non-fortified capture objectives only that contribute to the PPT? This would allow for a very different type of skirmish WvW side by side with the existing siege warfare WvW. (Just an idea, who knows if this would work.)
~MRA
This pretty much sums up the thread.
So RG, VoTF, DsD, sIN, Riot, VcY, IRON,…
These guilds all just want loot/karma and wxp?
Yes that really sums it all up.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
Arrowcarts damage should stay as is for players only, not siege.
This is a good point, actually.
Arrows are meant for hitting flesh. There’s really no reason they should have much effect on solid wood and metal, e.g. every piece of siege in existence.
It’d also make rams and golems viable again now that a single AC can massacre either. Nowadays the only purpose a ram has in taking an objective is if it’s deserted or defended by someone too dumb/unsupplied to build a slaughtercart.
You know what? I actually agree with this. Against seige, arrow carts can be weak. It does make sense. It will also at least make that pot of oil more important now to stop rams and gollems.
Man i’m glad we get skill lag on these 80 man tower attacks now
The primary method I’ve seen post patch to take something is to show up, hope there’s nobody inside, stack on the door, and keep enough AOE on it to keep anyone from getting in. People are acting like they must have 40+ people to take any objective now. They’re probably right.
The fact that, out of the blue, they buffed ACs by over 100% for no apparent reason already should indicate someone calling the shots really doesn’t have much of an idea what they’re doing.
How often, in any game, for something that’s already balanced, do you see it randomly boosted by over 100%?
I’m 100% in favor of changing the zerg blob meta but… More towards roaming/strike teams… ANET why do we want treb wars???
When did 80% become over 100%? Lol…
When you factor in the range buff it’s over twice as powerful. Would you not agree?
Everyone knows that the way to deal with a problem isn’t to fix the actual problem but instead to create something to attack the problem, that always works, ask Australia
I said it ages ago… but superior rams need to have a roof. But also if arrow carts are aimed at flesh then they should have zero affect on golems.
They will do nothing to stop zergs… if anything it will make people zerg even more and convert the reasonable zergs into blob wars.
The only affect that arrow carts will have now is that people will stop using rams… and we will see more catapults and trebs being used to bring down walls. Then the blob will rush the hole in the wall and take out all the arrow carts inside.
The problem is not zerg fighting… zerg fights of 20-35 ppl are what makes WvW fun… if you want smaller fights then do the other pvp stuff… the problem is that when an entire server forms up into a blob of 50+ it causes skill lag. If there was no skill lag then 50+ vs 50+ vs 50+ would probably be quite fun.
But we all know that Viz are the biggest culprits of blobbing after they failed to deal with SFR at its peak… but also that Viz are the biggest siege campers in the game. Hence the arrow cart boost is not going to tackle the server that is most guilty of blobbing… it is going to give that server a boost instead.
Nymeria Meliae | SoS
Acid Bath Babies Go Plop Plop [FizZ]
