Guild Wars 2

With Dogged March + Melandru + Lemongrass, all snares will be reduced to 2% duration.

This seems ridiculously powerful to me. Did ANet intend for Warriors to be able do this in WvW?

Am I missing something?

good, something those classes that will be nerfed tomorrow can focus on for the next nerf bat to hit…

Kaon.7192:

With Dogged March + Melandru + Lemongrass, all snares will be reduced to 2% duration.

This seems ridiculously powerful to me. Did ANet intend for Warriors to be able do this in WvW?

Am I missing something?

And how exactly is something like a nourishment as Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup related to warriors alone ?

Also,forgive me for my ignorance,but wth is Dogged March ?

Choo Choo………..

Ele’s can already do this.

Caedmon.6798:

Kaon.7192:

With Dogged March + Melandru + Lemongrass, all snares will be reduced to 2% duration.

This seems ridiculously powerful to me. Did ANet intend for Warriors to be able do this in WvW?

Am I missing something?

And how exactly is something like a nourishment as Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup related to warriors alone ?

Also,forgive me for my ignorance,but wth is Dogged March ?

A Trait that will provide 30% Passive Reduction in duration of movement impairing conditions.

With Lemongrass & the Runes, warriors will be able to stack up to 98%. More than likely since the the Lemongrass Soup was over 8 Silver Per unit last week, I doubt many use it, so your looking more likely at 94 or 96% whatever the difference in the lower level.

I used to use it … like 5 months ago, then when price went sky high, what the hell is the point.

Seriously, warriors don’t care to trait that much if your traited as a shout heal in soldiers. The end result is …if you overextend too much (which us wars have to sometimes) … your going to be targeted down / snare and have about 6 conditions stacked on ya.

All the while the pew pews sit in the back, so you want to nerf antyhing on a war, then get your butt up front with me and break the enemy lines. Then tell me about balance.

Movement impairing conditions,so it doesn’t even apply to all conditions,just cripple,slow etc.Anyway,i do understand you,but i think they should take a look at All nourishments,since i do think some are just a bit op with the right traits.You also know of the nourishment that does 40% Chance to cause chill on crit at night? Thinks like that…should be removed from wvwv imo.

Nak.8315:

Caedmon.6798:

Kaon.7192:

With Dogged March + Melandru + Lemongrass, all snares will be reduced to 2% duration.

This seems ridiculously powerful to me. Did ANet intend for Warriors to be able do this in WvW?

Am I missing something?

And how exactly is something like a nourishment as Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup related to warriors alone ?

Also,forgive me for my ignorance,but wth is Dogged March ?

A Trait that will provide 30% Passive Reduction in duration of movement impairing conditions.

With Lemongrass & the Runes, warriors will be able to stack up to 98%. More than likely since the the Lemongrass Soup was over 8 Silver Per unit last week, I doubt many use it, so your looking more likely at 94 or 96% whatever the difference in the lower level.

That’s if you use additive stacking instead of multiplicative. Has it been established this game uses additive over multiplicative?

If its multiplicative it wont hit 98%

Instead of a 30% trait and a 40% food bringing you to 70% reduction, it will bring you to 58% reduction.

I wonder if this interaction is tested somewhere, cant really find it.

Also the question is how does condition duration interacts with this, if I have a 40% longer cripple (pizza) does it make the cripple last (against a target with 98% condition reduction) 58%, or does it make it last 96.4%?

I believe its been verified it is additive.

Run blind spam if you want to stop them.

My god! You know what this might mean? People might start playing warriors in WvW! Except if all the warriors starting nomming on lemongrass soup, the price will rise up to 20 silver and, well…

what are the materials for lemongrass again?

I think it’s a good thing. Melee tank should not be CCed and that’s the way DAoC had it and it was not oped.

Acelerion.6820:

I believe its been verified it is additive.

Hmm, I was thinking the exact opposite; that it was multiplicative.

Daoc also didn’t have any gap closing abilities like all mele in gw2 do. Not saying its gonna be imbalanced just pointing that out

Thanks for the tip.

Draygo.9473:

That’s if you use additive stacking instead of multiplicative. Has it been established this game uses additive over multiplicative?

If its multiplicative it wont hit 98%

Instead of a 30% trait and a 40% food bringing you to 70% reduction, it will bring you to 58% reduction.

I wonder if this interaction is tested somewhere, cant really find it.

Also the question is how does condition duration interacts with this, if I have a 40% longer cripple (pizza) does it make the cripple last (against a target with 98% condition reduction) 58%, or does it make it last 96.4%?

Its definitely additive. I can tell a huge difference from when my food wares off and I just have runes going on.

I’m not sure how it applies the condition. Just a guess but works like this. Lets say your Cripple is 10 Seconds base so we have easy numbers.

You’d have a 14 Second Cripple after we factor in your 40% bonus, then I reduce the duration by 98%. Which ends out to be .28 Seconds.

I think you might have gotten your maths wrong. Melandru + lemongrass is -65% condition duration. That means that all conditions including snares will be left with 35% of original duration. Dogged march is -33% for snare type conditions (meaning snares will haf 67% of original duration). If Im not wrong this effect is multiplicative since it seems like two different effects. Basically 67% x 35% = 23% condition duration for snare type conditions. This is just speculation though but I got the feeling this is how most duration type stuff works if they are slightly different.

Edit: I guess if one is not patient and is rich…you can try this with elementalist, they got in 1 of their traits a -33% condition duration to snare type condition, so if you are feeling rich, try with melandru n lemongrass n test it please ^^.

Dont worry, Anet is fixing it the immortal condition reducing Warriors by nerfing condition damage by 50% for the Mesmer. It makes sense if you think about it. Sort of.

Draygo.9473:

what are the materials for lemongrass again?

Lemongrass is required which is a kitten to find. No reported farms of it exist, and only exists in Straights as a few Herb Patches that can give 3 or 4 different types of Herbs.

Like it said, its better off making the lower end one which has a 2 or 4% difference in power. Which should only affect players by a few tenths of a second I think.

NekoNeko.8730:

I think you might have gotten your maths wrong. Melandru + lemongrass is -65% condition duration. That means that all conditions including snares will be left with 35% of original duration. Dogged march is -33% for snare type conditions (meaning snares will haf 67% of original duration). If Im not wrong this effect is multiplicative since it seems like two different effects. Basically 67% x 35% = 23% condition duration for snare type conditions. This is just speculation though but I got the feeling this is how most duration type stuff works if they are slightly different.

Edit: I guess if one is not patient and is rich…you can try this with elementalist, they got in 1 of their traits a -33% condition duration to snare type condition, so if you are feeling rich, try with melandru n lemongrass n test it please ^^.

Or just wait till tomorrow.

Nak.8315:

Draygo.9473:

That’s if you use additive stacking instead of multiplicative. Has it been established this game uses additive over multiplicative?

If its multiplicative it wont hit 98%

Instead of a 30% trait and a 40% food bringing you to 70% reduction, it will bring you to 58% reduction.

I wonder if this interaction is tested somewhere, cant really find it.

Also the question is how does condition duration interacts with this, if I have a 40% longer cripple (pizza) does it make the cripple last (against a target with 98% condition reduction) 58%, or does it make it last 96.4%?

Its definitely additive. I can tell a huge difference from when my food wares off and I just have runes going on.

I’m not sure how it applies the condition. Just a guess but works like this. Lets say your Cripple is 10 Seconds base so we have easy numbers.

You’d have a 14 Second Cripple after we factor in your 40% bonus, then I reduce the duration by 98%. Which ends out to be .28 Seconds.

Are you sure that’s how it works? Have you tested it?

if its additive scaling you have a second scenario:

if you have a base 10 second cripple and apply it to the enemy, condition duration is calculated before application -98%+40% = -58% meaning a 4.2 second cripple is applied.

if its done in steps that’s multiplicative scaling.

Caedmon.6798:

Movement impairing conditions,so it doesn’t even apply to all conditions,just cripple,slow etc.Anyway,i do understand you,but i think they should take a look at All nourishments,since i do think some are just a bit op with the right traits.You also know of the nourishment that does 40% Chance to cause chill on crit at night? Thinks like that…should be removed from wvwv imo.

Lol noob, that food is very weak and very few people use it. It costs like 40c in the market. The 1second random chill just isn’t that useful. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone using it in months.

pixieish.9627:

My god! You know what this might mean? People might start playing warriors in WvW! Except if all the warriors starting nomming on lemongrass soup, the price will rise up to 20 silver and, well…

Warriors are already one of the most popular Zerg classes. The upcoming changes to warrior should make that even more so.

I’d suggest that running all the gear severely reduces the warrior’s other functions. Most warriors I know run rune of soldier for AoE condition removal, helping not only themselves or the other team. To run melandru just get such ridiculously short condition durations for yourself is 1. selfish and 2. bad strategy.

I tought Dogged March(or whatever the new trait name) it was supposed to reduce the power of cripple/chilled by 30% ,not their duration.

I run this on my ele sometimes and it is good. Immobs/cripple/chill conditions flash for fractions of a second then disappear. Almost annoying in zerg fights cause it looks like your boon/condition buffs are flickering/glitching.

A Thief may be uncatchable but Warriors may not be unstoppable?

To me however, the OP looks more like he’s fishing for nerfs because his Thief is afraid he might not be able to caltrop his way out and prevent a Warrior from catching him in WvW. Say it isn’t true and that this wasn’t the reason you actually made this thread, I dare you…

Personally I think these Warriors would be excellent ‘Thief Catchers’. Working as intended…

edited text slightly

Lawl, warrior unstoppable. Even before this increase i’m unstoppable on my warrior, sword + warhorn + SoR + mobile strikes + melandru + food. HOWEVER, a zerg will still get you regardless of how much mobility you have. In addition, they received no sustainability from this update, just more damage. Stop complaining.

Aveneo.2068:

A Thief may be uncatchable but Warriors may not be unstoppable?

To me however, the OP looks more like he’s fishing for nerfs because his Thief is afraid he might not be able to caltrop his way out and prevent a Warrior from catching him in WvW. Say it isn’t true and that this wasn’t the reason you actually made this thread, I dare you…

Personally I think these Warriors would be excellent ‘Thief Catchers’. Working as intended…

edited text slightly

Right. Believe it or not some people care about more than just the class they play, but rather the overall state of the game.

I can’t see how complete immunity to snares can be considered balanced for ANY class. If this was a Thief trait I guarantee you that I will be creating this exact thread.

Archer.1658:

Lawl, warrior unstoppable. Even before this increase i’m unstoppable on my warrior, sword + warhorn + SoR + mobile strikes + melandru + food. HOWEVER, a zerg will still get you regardless of how much mobility you have. In addition, they received no sustainability from this update, just more damage. Stop complaining.

Don’t you think immunity to snares plus all of the above you just listed might be a bit much?

Liquid Swords.1740:

I run this on my ele sometimes and it is good. Immobs/cripple/chill conditions flash for fractions of a second then disappear. Almost annoying in zerg fights cause it looks like your boon/condition buffs are flickering/glitching.

Hmm I didn’t know Ele’s always had a trait like this. Thanks for the info.
Should something like this be in the game at all for ANY class though?

IMO condition duration reduction should probably be changed to multiplicative. Then there will be a diminishing return to duration reduction, and the final resulting reduction will be reduced to around 70% (0.667 * 0.6 * 0.75), which is still powerful, but not practically complete immunity at 98%.

Kaon.7192:

Archer.1658:

Lawl, warrior unstoppable. Even before this increase i’m unstoppable on my warrior, sword + warhorn + SoR + mobile strikes + melandru + food. HOWEVER, a zerg will still get you regardless of how much mobility you have. In addition, they received no sustainability from this update, just more damage. Stop complaining.

Don’t you think immunity to snares plus all of the above you just listed might be a bit much?

Not really. The above listed sacrifices a lot for the mobility. IF anything this new buff will allow us breathing room to get new rune sets up or use different food. If people want to run with -98% then that’s good for them, its not necessary at all lol. I guess I just see it differently.

Kaon.7192:

Right. Believe it or not some people care about more than just the class they play, but rather the overall state of the game.

I can’t see how complete immunity to snares can be considered balanced for ANY class. If this was a Thief trait I guarantee you that I will be creating this exact thread.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt then. To me it simply seemed that you cared more about just the Thief you play with the overall state of the game being your Thief running the risk of getting caught with his pants caltrops down by a Warrior.

By the way, how come we’re suddenly moving from ‘reduced duration’ to ‘complete immunity’? Getting awfully close to tinfoil-hat territory now so you might want to push back on the ‘immunity’ a little and see if someone actually has some calculations to either verify or deny the numbers.

When do we guardians get a health boost? I wouldn’t mind an extra 3k to my base.

graverr.6473:

I tought Dogged March(or whatever the new trait name) it was supposed to reduce the power of cripple/chilled by 30% ,not their duration.

-New trait: Dogged March. Replaces Turtle’s Defense. Reduces cripple, immobilize, and chill durations by 33%, and gives a small amount of regeneration when hit by these conditions.

In order for warriors to be unstoppable after this upgrade, they need to make A LOT of sacrifices. They need to have their 6 runes wasted on this, a trait AND their food slot (at 10 silver per 30 minutes).

It’s not even remotely the same as the one-click-get-out-of-jail skill that thiefs have.

Mobile strikes already gets past immobilize, so the new trait is for cripple and chill. Though a warhorn also removes those conditions, and this is not even getting into a shouts.

It’s less game changing than people are making it out to be, ZvZ this will hardly be noticed.

Boon hate will be the change to watch out for. It’ll either be to good or not good enough.

Krakah.3582:

Mobile strikes already gets past immobilize, so the new trait is for cripple and chill. Though a warhorn also removes those conditions, and this is not even getting into a shouts.

It’s less game changing than people are making it out to be, ZvZ this will hardly be noticed.

Boon hate will be the change to watch out for. It’ll either be to good or not good enough.

Boon Hate is too far into the discipline tree (requires 30 points making you squishy as kitten) to matter to zerg warfare. It is for spvp burst builds, not wvw zerg warriors.

pot.6805:

Krakah.3582:

Mobile strikes already gets past immobilize, so the new trait is for cripple and chill. Though a warhorn also removes those conditions, and this is not even getting into a shouts.

It’s less game changing than people are making it out to be, ZvZ this will hardly be noticed.

Boon hate will be the change to watch out for. It’ll either be to good or not good enough.

Boon Hate is too far into the discipline tree (requires 30 points making you squishy as kitten) to matter to zerg warfare. It is for spvp burst builds, not wvw zerg warriors.

There will always be a population running GC warriors. We’ll see if the trade off is worth it.

Krakah.3582:

pot.6805:

Krakah.3582:

Mobile strikes already gets past immobilize, so the new trait is for cripple and chill. Though a warhorn also removes those conditions, and this is not even getting into a shouts.

It’s less game changing than people are making it out to be, ZvZ this will hardly be noticed.

Boon hate will be the change to watch out for. It’ll either be to good or not good enough.

Boon Hate is too far into the discipline tree (requires 30 points making you squishy as kitten) to matter to zerg warfare. It is for spvp burst builds, not wvw zerg warriors.

There will always be a population running GC warriors. We’ll see if the trade off is worth it.

That warrior will die instantly in zerg v zerg and never get to use boon hate.

Just trash the professions, give us all names like … a001, a002, z967, and so on.

Then give us all pointy stick to do 100-200 dmg base, get rid of heals, get rid of utility get rid of elites … hell get rid of buttons 2-10 …

and maybe you have a game you want to play?

… don’t cry for me argentina … soon enough with all the whining, thats what we will have.

Been nothing but takeaways, and everytime you do it, just makes the game less enjoyable. I mean conditions duration reduction on wars? Is that a real issue to care about… skills lag (thats an issue), maps tweak out and imblance numbers, thats an issue, zergballing … is the only form of competition in meta, and coverage tells you who sits where on a ladder.

Try to think about the game functions versus tweaking and honing professions. It’s not your job, its anets. They need to know ‘real’ issues. I still have no idea why they are making some of the changes. But can’t comment until I play with it.

The food is used by anyone, I’m sure glad my condition duration reduction will let me play front line in red circles a little more than you softies skirting on the outsides. Because in the current meta, if I cant do that, then I don’t see why I’d waste my time playing melee at all. I’m here to help my team/party and castes/ranged by messing in there backlines where it’s high risk of death. Not floating pew pew run back a bit…

I have no issue with theif stealth or mes confusion, and still unsure why they mess with the class, but its because too many pew pew the forum and Anet does it. Let’s not dumb down all aspects of the game. If any of this gets nerfed, I still won’t care. But i’ll sigh thinking pvf won yet again. Most warriors don’t trait as you ask anyway. It’s a selfish way to think and wvw is a multi-map wide support structure where you will be more often than not with people, supporting teams and fighting in larger scale battles. Not to say solo isn’t an option, but not many warriors like to solo (because our survivability is nil in comparison to other professions who excel at it).

~ the unstoppable warrior who will forever laugh at pvf > Anet

pot.6805:

Boon Hate is too far into the discipline tree (requires 30 points making you squishy as kitten) to matter to zerg warfare. It is for spvp burst builds, not wvw zerg warriors.

There will always be a population running GC warriors. We’ll see if the trade off is worth it.[/quote]

That warrior will die instantly in zerg v zerg and never get to use boon hate.[/quote]

So…free bags is bad? if boon hate doesn’t work out?

Krakah.3582:

pot.6805:

Boon Hate is too far into the discipline tree (requires 30 points making you squishy as kitten) to matter to zerg warfare. It is for spvp burst builds, not wvw zerg warriors.

There will always be a population running GC warriors. We’ll see if the trade off is worth it.

That warrior will die instantly in zerg v zerg and never get to use boon hate.[/quote]

So…free bags is bad? if boon hate doesn’t work out?[/quote]

Free bags always good =)

Harbinger.8637:

graverr.6473:

I tought Dogged March(or whatever the new trait name) it was supposed to reduce the power of cripple/chilled by 30% ,not their duration.

-New trait: Dogged March. Replaces Turtle’s Defense. Reduces cripple, immobilize, and chill durations by 33%, and gives a small amount of regeneration when hit by these conditions.

Its the regen part that worries me more. I mean if you put a mud trap down or a spike trap down on a ranger, that pulses every 1 or 2 seconds thats a lot of free regen with no benefit from the trap for example.

Or go with the aforemention chill on crit from food. 1 sec chill given from food reduced to next to nothign and a free regen on the warrior.

I’m still undecided on that part cos the info is so scarce, no idea how big a regen it will be or what/if it’s ICD will be.

Wenissa.2967:

Harbinger.8637:

graverr.6473:

I tought Dogged March(or whatever the new trait name) it was supposed to reduce the power of cripple/chilled by 30% ,not their duration.

-New trait: Dogged March. Replaces Turtle’s Defense. Reduces cripple, immobilize, and chill durations by 33%, and gives a small amount of regeneration when hit by these conditions.

Its the regen part that worries me more. I mean if you put a mud trap down or a spike trap down on a ranger, that pulses every 1 or 2 seconds thats a lot of free regen with no benefit from the trap.

They said there will be an internal cooldown on it.

Personally i think immobilize is one of the most OP abilities in game right now. There seems to be a bug that comes with it on occasion which cancels your abilities cast because it lets you move and then tells you your immobilized then you cast your condition removal and then it says, but oh you were over there when you were immobilized and reverts you back to a previous location and resets your abilities… all the while the zerg is going to town on you. I am running a Necro with dagger-horn right now and around 100% condition duration. Suffice to say the 4 second base immobilize is a free kill everytime I use it.

Archer.1658:

In addition, they received no sustainability from this update, just more damage. Stop complaining.

Nope .They received alternate damage .Not in any way more.

Harbinger.8637:

graverr.6473:

I tought Dogged March(or whatever the new trait name) it was supposed to reduce the power of cripple/chilled by 30% ,not their duration.

-New trait: Dogged March. Replaces Turtle’s Defense. Reduces cripple, immobilize, and chill durations by 33%, and gives a small amount of regeneration when hit by these conditions.

:(((((

I love Turtle’s Defense .Kitten if they completely remove it.