Guild Wars 2

Am I the only one who thinks WvW is totally broken. They map resets every Friday, and by mid sat green owns 80% of the pie graph. Now this may be because they are all running beast mode or there is way more players….but something should be down about this. I don’t mind taking a lose, but when its week after week of just getting destroyed….how is that fun? They did a much better job of balancing this out in the old AB in gw1…but this WvW is just getting old.

Well it sounds like your on a server that focuses PvE. Can’t help you there. That server got there cause no one would do WvW. Should try and join another server if you plan on WvW.

Regardless of the server, they should not allow one group to own the map every week, week after week. Plus now I have pay more money just to change servers…and what if THAT server starts getting owned…now I have to pay again. These seem like weak fixes to the bigger problem.

its not broken, I would suggest making a guild, talk with other guilds, generate intrest in WvW. You will be surprised what 20 more people on a map does.

Yeah. My server has been up against the same people for so long, I don’t even remember who came before them. But they zerg us to death 24/7. We just don’t have enough people contributing to WvW, they’re all too busy running fractals and erping.

At one point I assumed each server in each tier had a 33% chance of winning. I now see that was a flawed assumption. My server is likely to lose about 5 matches in a row, move down to tier 4, dominate that for one week, then move back into tier 3, and repeat ad nausium. Bummer.

On the other hand, here in tier 3 there are enough players, even during an obvious loss, to at least have fun. Maybe we won’t hardly ever win a week, but there’s always something to do, always a battle to be fought and won.

The OP has a point. As of the last score update I have seen, 6 of the 8 winning servers are green. Of the remaining 2 green servers, they are very close to the lead.

Ignore the score and takenitnone battle at a time.

FYI i am in 2 guilds with 500+ people. Its not helping. I just think they need to do a better job of control when it comes to the balance. I dont mind loosing..not even a couple weeks in a row. But the last 2 months straight its been green atleast 80% of the pie graph….people are not wvw because there is no point. You spend all night and 5g doing upgrades to towns and the next day….its all green.

If they stopped giving Badges of Honor in the Chests of the jumping puzzles that are located in WvW maps, you would have more people involved in the REAL WvW. Thus giving you a better chance to compete. Make people BATTLE for the Gift of Battle because that is all a lot of them are there for. A piece needed for their Legendary.

Faelaan.4681:

If they stopped giving Badges of Honor in the Chests of the jumping puzzles that are located in WvW maps, you would have more people involved in the REAL WvW. Thus giving you a better chance to compete. Make people BATTLE for the Gift of Battle because that is all a lot of them are there for. A piece needed for their Legendary.

Wouldn’t that also be true for the green server?

I must agree with Guapo El. I have been playing WvW for a while now and i noticed that green owns 80% or more of the map ALL the time. Whenever my guild plays we always get dominated. whether its because of sheer numbers or skill, i dont know. but they definitely seem to be stacking SF’s team. the only time we can take our place back is when they arent on and that is rare. we’ve even resorted to making an alliance with blue but even then we are both still losing to green. it’s ridiculous. something needs to be done it’s just not fun getting owned 24/7.

What is the big deal what color the server is? Green just means they won the most points the week before. I’ve seen Blue servers own entire maps. I’ve seen Red servers own entire maps. What is the problem? If your server is getting owned then you have a few choices… #1 – Get more people involved in WvW on your server. #2 Get a few guilds to move to your server. #3 Move yourself to another server. It’s a competition… WvW is about competition and having fun.

well option 1 and 2 are not really valid as you cant force people to play. and option 3 is a bit of BS really. So i spend more money after I just get the game, then 2 weeks later THAT server gets over run. So i do what..spend another $20 and move. GW should just fix it so one team\group cant completely crush the other teams. Implement a bonus to the teams getting slaughtered or a debuff to the team that is doing the crushing. This way regardless of how many friends you have or what server you are on you can have SOME chance of winning

Faelaan.4681:

What is the big deal what color the server is? Green just means they won the most points the week before. I’ve seen Blue servers own entire maps. I’ve seen Red servers own entire maps. What is the problem? If your server is getting owned then you have a few choices… #1 – Get more people involved in WvW on your server. #2 Get a few guilds to move to your server. #3 Move yourself to another server. It’s a competition… WvW is about competition and having fun.

It doesn’t actually work this way. Green is the server that has the highest rating, and is thus the strongest, in that tier. A green server could lose a week but have enough rating points to stay green the next week. So it’s not anti-green sentiment, we’re just saying that the green server has, by far, the best chance of winning the tier every week, and unless you are on a green server, you are likely to lose several weeks in a row.

Sometimes the blue or red team pulls it together for a week and wins. Before Jan 28th it usually coincided with large guild transfers.

The people in this thread with the issue appear to be poorly informed about how the match ups work, since they fail to acknowledge that they are all from the same tier, and that their experience simply isn’t representative of WvW for most players. My first response would be to say that Sorrow’s Furnace is the weakest possible server that they could be matched against, however there are a couple points about the scoring system that I am curious about which look like they may be forcing an unfair match week after week.

Firstly, that point gains and losses in a match are more or less zero sum, and secondly, that there’s almost a 300 point gap between tier 7 and tier 8. Compare that to ~1100 point difference from tier 1 to tier 7. It seems that these servers have had their score driven so low that it’s extremely difficult for one server to break out even when outperforming the other servers, unless another server drops down from tier 8. Consequently, even if Sorrow’s Furnace dropped down and subsequently got an increase in its WvW population, the tier positioning would persist. Anyways, not too familiar with the glicko system but wondering if anyone could weigh in on this.

By the way, a glance at all the tiers to show why you’re facing the same dominant server every week: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Edit: Sorry, from EU where we have 9 tiers. I just realized that you already have a 6-page thread on this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/In-my-opinion-t8-rankings-need-more-attention/first/

I’m sorry but your remarks just seems to “politically correct” for me if I’m understanding this correctly your proposal is to let everyone win. In the USA we’ve tried that for the last 35 years and the results are…

1:12 kids that enter kindergarten this year will drop out once in high school. 1:4 that does manage to graduate can’t read at a 4th grade level. As a “developed” country we rank dead last in math and science.

So this is what you want?

Eviator.9746:

Faelaan.4681:

What is the big deal what color the server is? Green just means they won the most points the week before. I’ve seen Blue servers own entire maps. I’ve seen Red servers own entire maps. What is the problem? If your server is getting owned then you have a few choices… #1 – Get more people involved in WvW on your server. #2 Get a few guilds to move to your server. #3 Move yourself to another server. It’s a competition… WvW is about competition and having fun.

It doesn’t actually work this way. Green is the server that has the highest rating, and is thus the strongest, in that tier. A green server could lose a week but have enough rating points to stay green the next week. So it’s not anti-green sentiment, we’re just saying that the green server has, by far, the best chance of winning the tier every week, and unless you are on a green server, you are likely to lose several weeks in a row.

Sometimes the blue or red team pulls it together for a week and wins. Before Jan 28th it usually coincided with large guild transfers.

I stand corrected… Learn something new everyday.

wth are you talking about. when did i say everyone should win. I believe I said on a few times I don’t mind loosing for a week or 2. But when its MONTH 3..its old.

to use your stupid analogy above……your kids are adults and cant tie shoes. let alone read read a book.

You offered no solution other than quote, “Regardless of the server, they should not allow one group to own the map every week, week after week” to me the logical conclusion would be when offered no solution is that everyone should win.

really…so I didnt say they should debuff the team that is crushing the map…..OR give the team that is getting crushed a buff. if you going to just say stupid things….shhhhhhh plz

No one said we should all win lol … we’re just saying it should be a fair fight

Define “fair”.

not getting crushed 3 months in a row. not looking at the graph and seeing the same team own 80% of it every week.

Guapo El.1754:

not getting crushed 3 months in a row. not looking at the graph and seeing the same team own 80% of it every week.

I understand what you want… I think a decent solution would be for Anet to apply a handicap to each server based on the server’s population and performance in WvW. Like they do in bowling and golf. I could live with that.

Guapo El.1754:

Am I the only one who thinks WvW is totally broken. They map resets every Friday, and by mid sat green owns 80% of the pie graph. Now this may be because they are all running beast mode or there is way more players….but something should be down about this. I don’t mind taking a lose, but when its week after week of just getting destroyed….how is that fun? They did a much better job of balancing this out in the old AB in gw1…but this WvW is just getting old.

WVW is not meant to be fair because the strength of the server is based on the quality of players involved as well as the quantity of players involved. If per chance you are in a server that isn’t as active in WVW, then you will have to seek friendlies that might want to do some wvw in game. Else, you will not fully enjoy the benefits of WVW to its full. Moreover, you might want to transfer to a Server with more WVW.

Why is there always the misconception by so many that think it’s all about winning for the servers in those lopsided match-ups and people assume they want a free win.
The ranking system is here to find even match-ups and not about bragging rights.
If you look at the rankings currently, it’s failing to achieve this with the loaded history with month of free transfers. It doesn’t matter at which tier you are looking but T8 got the worst of the Glicko-math.

Asglarek.8976:

Define “fair”.

Matching servers with similar wvw population

I’m thinking a change in the ratings without manipulating the base algorithm may be in order. It may, and I emphasize MAY, change things up enough to allow for variety while giving servers a shot at the next higher tier (or push servers down a tier even if they barely cling on just before reset).

What if Arena Net ranked WvW based on daily/weekly/monthly scores?

MOS gives us all a pretty good idea of how we fare throughout the week in our rankings/ratings; and most of us will acknowledge that until somewhere between Monday and Thursday that number is extremely fluid. Why not include these daily fluctuations into the overall equation?

Daily ratings get applied every day at reset or 00:01 server time.
Weekly ratings are applied as they are now – but are balanced with the bias of daily wins or losses as they would be now for weekly (anywhere from +/- 1% to +/- 5% for daily wins and losses).

Monthly ratings could be anything from what overall rank your server has been throughout the weeks to the total positive or negative rating points your server has earned/lost; again applied with a bias to the weekly scores.

Keep resetting the matchups every week and the servers that shine and throw their all into it at certain points while not being able to maintain the same level of participation all week long may get the reward they’ve been waiting for. Or I just had a fun thought while taking a 20 minute break from the game.

Good luck and have fun!

Asglarek, your so far out in left field im not even going to address it.

Cosmic.6047:

Asglarek.8976:

Define “fair”.

Matching servers with similar wvw population

That exactly how it is but on a 24/7 schedule. Wv3 is about 24/7 coverage, not strategy not skill only coverage matters and if your server can’t manage it there is no amount of mathematical manipulation that will fix it aside from getting more people to participate in it.

The top servers have the numbers to compete against each other and its the same exact thing in every bracket.

Asglarek, there is a potentially an issue with these servers constantly getting rematched because the rating gap between tiers may have been inflated due to imbalances and severe fluctuations in previous tier 8 matches. If that’s the case then the score doesn’t accurately represent how these servers would stack up in other tiers, but there’s no way to break out.

I don’t think debuffs etc. are a solution because they would have no place in any of the other match ups, and they throw off the math of calculating each server’s rating. You should both take a look at the long thread I linked earlier that SniffyCube started on tier 8 needing more attention. Otherwise you are just asking questions that many other people have already tried to answer.

so if we beat a debuffed team then take off the debuff… simple as that. if we wanna talk about school then its like gym class… you stack all the best kids in the class on one team and the crappy athletes on the other… how is that fun for the crappy athletes? they know they’re going to lose. and they should monitor how long people are in WvW and make teams with equal hours logged. that was there’s always equal amount of players acutally playing. they can always have equal players but if half the players of one team never logs on then theyre screwed… and hits hard to just “get people to play”. we cant just message every single GW2 player and tell em to play… the ones that dont want to will just ignore us lol

Maybe you and your 500+ guild should try harder?

Great comment LOCO…way to add to the real convo!

Your welcome.

/thread

if you have nothing to contribute to the topic..please shhhhhh

loco its not like we know all 500 ppl. i cant got to their houses and tell em to try harder… they do what they want

if PvE community on a server moans about not getting realm benefit, it is their own fault for being too obsessed with PvE and fractals, and not care about helping their WvW friends….

The only thing wrong with the current wvw matchups (NA) is T8. So if you play on ET or FC, yeah you are kind of getting the short end of the stick right now and you will probably be facing SF for eternity unless they decide to do something about it.

well that was my goal for this thread…to show some interest in the acknowledgement that the system is pretty flawed. its hard to get people to play wvw when they get trashed every night. People play gw2 for fun and I dont know a single person who likes to get owned night in and night out.

WvW is broken because of the culling.
Until it is fixed you will always have servers exploiting the rendering issue and getting killed by invisible enemies…really pathetic

The problem I see with wvw is out of the three servers playing. Pretty much the only factor that effects who wins and who loses. Is whichever server has a queue for a larger portion of the day. Example one server only has a queue for like an hour or two at primetime the other server has a queue for 12+ hours of the day. Who do you think is gonna win. Yet if your on the server with a long queue and in a clan your can’t always get in and play with your clannies in the same boarderland.

The problem is people jumping ship to the winning side.

I am on Blacktide woke up this morn and we dont have anything same yesterday start playing and just have to give up as there is no point by the time you get somewhere attack you are just over run and killed.

We should all get participation trophy’s too! It’s not fair for someone to lose in a competition.

you can clearly tell who in the thread is SF. Every 5 stupid comment about everyone should win and everyone getting trophy;s.

What is a “fair fight”?

I think its fair that the server with the best organization and bigger population interested in going in wvw should win.

What are you going to do?
Block the other 2 servers from getting into WvW if there is no one from your server to defend your keeps?
Limit the number of players based on the numbers the other 2 servers can put in the field?

I dont think those are “fair” to the people that live in other timezones and still want to go in WvW and take some keeps.

If you take the map on a day, and come back the next day and its all taken from you. Take it back. If there was nothing else to take you would probably be here complaining that there is nothing to do anyway.

No, I don’t think the fights are balanced right now. But I don’t see a “fair” way to balance it. Unless players are willing to go and transfer from top servers to servers that are constantly loossing. But looking at this forums I think the trend would be the other way around.

Allowing “guesting” in loosing servers in WvW?
So then the zerg on t1 can go to t8 server raid the whole thing and leave?

Allow guilds to transfer from High tiers to low tiers for free/cheaper?
So big guilds help a server get to t1/2 just to leave him there to get smashed and go to another t8?

I really think people should stop just mindless complaining about how “unfair” WvW is and try to come up with better ways to improve it. But take in mind that there are other players out there, and be it the ones that are in a high rank server becouse they just want to win, or in a low tier one becouse they just want to roam and do small fights or PvDoor, they all have the right to play their game too.

If your server/guild focuses on only pve then you need to reconsider your options, either leave and find yourself a new server/guild or rally the troops and change their point of view. WvWvW does need fixing… but server/guild participation is a different factor.

lLobo.7960:

What is a “fair fight”?

I think its fair that the server with the best organization and bigger population interested in going in wvw should win.

What are you going to do?

IMO, out manned buffs should bestow bonuses to power, precision, toughness and vit. They should also scale to the population imbalance.

I don’t think servers as a whole enjoy dominating opponents any more than servers like having the entire map swept out from under them. It is particularly problematic when one server has a strong time zone over another. Then it is a back and forth each day with neither time zone getting a good fight from the other. This is further exacerbated by the entire population of a server that simply stops showing up since nobody likes to walk into continual 5 to 1 fights.

There are a ton of ways to try and balance it. Give buffs to weak team (bigger the gap the larger the buff) you can add a pop lime no more then 1.5 -1 ratio (10 red or blue then 15 green) this way you would still loose…but at least its not a 5 vs 45 zerg. There is plenty that gw can do to fix\make it better. When in gw1 did you see the kurzicks own the map for months on end, It NEVER happened. Why is it so hard to do it now?

lobo thats what this fourm is for, so we can talk about how to fix it, not just mindless complaining.