Guild Wars 2

I have been noticing this a lot more as of late… A full glass cannon thief will come out, kill 2 – 3 people super fast, stealth and then Waypoint out for safety.

Can we get some sort of No using Waypoint while in combat and/or while stealthed fix… I know we cannot just roll in, unload all we have on 1 – 3 players and then port out because we are “in combat”. Why then should a thief or anyone with stealth be able to?

It is a risk free situation for them when stealth breaks combat and they start their regeneration process. Please make them unable to waypoint out in the middle of a battle.

Sincerely, players everywhere… (This trend appeared, im guessing, due to culling being somewhat fixed).

Edit: As some have pointed out, just stealthing does not remove combat, thus leaving me to the impression that these players are using the same hacks / teleport mods that the bots and sPvP teleporters are using.

What are you talking about? You can’t WP out because your in stealth…

You should probably review the stealth and combat mechanics again OP.

Currently in our match up there’s been TONS of Ele’s, they take one person down then they run across the whole map then waypoint.

If you cannot waypoint in stealth, then there have been a lot of teleport hackers recently… Cause I am not the only one seeing this.

If you’re letting 2+ people die to a single thief (or anything), there’s no helping you.

Also, stealth doesn’t break combat.

Stealth doesn’t break combat. All it does it make you become invisible.

Stealth doesn’t break combat, they’re stealthing then running far enough away to WP out. Also they might be chain stealthing and just running away.

Loki.4139:

Currently in our match up there’s been TONS of Ele’s, they take one person down then they run across the whole map then waypoint.

As for Ele doing this, they are visible the whole time and can be caught I know cause i chase down them silly dagger daggers a lot.

@Ark, they usually down them before i can get there. They always target the Leveled Up players

Loki.4139:

Currently in our match up there’s been TONS of Ele’s, they take one person down then they run across the whole map then waypoint.

If you meant one d/d bunker ele running inside a group downing + stomping one person, that just means that group is a noob group. Lol… seriously go to spvp with a level 2 ele put soldiers gear on(that pretty much what 90% of d/d eles use in both spvp and wvw) and hit something. You will see that if you die to one d/d ele while in a group, you suck.

The WvW meta game does have some work to do. Engineers are non existant, and necros numbers are few. Thiefs, mesmers, and guardians are most prevelent. I had a thief come up behind me and do a chain of heart seekers, each one in a row. I was downed really fast and check combat log. around 3 heart seekers, each doing 3K damage plus….That’s 9k damage within about 2 seconds (on top of the mesmer that was bursting me). That is just insanity. But honestly, i just want them to fix culling issues. Personally I’m still having people appear on my screen late when it comes to stealth, and zergs vs zergs….wowzers. I think if we can fix that culling, we can truly assess the OP of thieves.

Churros.7196:

Loki.4139:

Currently in our match up there’s been TONS of Ele’s, they take one person down then they run across the whole map then waypoint.

If you meant one d/d bunker ele running inside a group downing + stomping one person, that just means that group is a noob group. Lol… seriously go to spvp with a level 2 ele put soldiers gear on(that pretty much what 90% of d/d eles use in both spvp and wvw) and hit something. You will see that if you die to one d/d ele while in a group, you suck.

As a mesmer, this is what I do to D/D ele’s. Especially those ones that like to hide in the safety of their zerg

Churros.7196:

Loki.4139:

Currently in our match up there’s been TONS of Ele’s, they take one person down then they run across the whole map then waypoint.

If you meant one d/d bunker ele running inside a group downing + stomping one person, that just means that group is a noob group. Lol… seriously go to spvp with a level 2 ele put soldiers gear on(that pretty much what 90% of d/d eles use in both spvp and wvw) and hit something. You will see that if you die to one d/d ele while in a group, you suck.

Well i haven’t been killed by one so i don’t suck.

Waypoints are already disabled while in combat mode.

Stealth does not stop combat mode – combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.

No waypoint while stealthed would not fix anything either, they will just wait until they their stealth has finished and click the waypoint.

It can be really hard to kill a thief as they have two get of jail free cards. The first is a teleport and the second is a stealth. It is very likely they are simply teleporting then stealthing while they heal then getting up and walking away. I frequently teleport to a critter and use it to pop me up.

Otaur.9268:

If you cannot waypoint in stealth, then there have been a lot of teleport hackers recently… Cause I am not the only one seeing this.

You know thieves have teleport skills, right?

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

[cut]combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.[cut]

this is not completely true.
Combat also ends when the target is defeated.
So if this Über-thief pops out of stealth kills 2-3 opponents, finishes them before everyone can react and hit him, after the third stomp he will be out of combat and can use waypoint.
Obviously this thread is based upon ignorance of a bad player that instead of learn mechanics prefers to ask for nerf.

Daendur.2357:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

[cut]combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.[cut]

this is not completely true.
Combat also ends when the target is defeated.
So if this Über-thief pops out of stealth kills 2-3 opponents, finishes them before everyone can react and hit him, after the third stomp he will be out of combat and can use waypoint.
Obviously this thread is based upon ignorance of a bad player that instead of learn mechanics prefers to ask for nerf.

@Lamefox and Daendur, first of all, I am far from ignorant when it comes to the games mechanics. I and several others have witnessed downing someone by 1 keep they disappear while under conditions and re-appear in lord room of a different keep that our allies happen to be seiging. Second, I know thieves have some “teleport” skills, i.e. Shortbow 5, but, nothing that lets them completely teleport off map / screen. If the players were Rage quitting the new system would automatically kill them. However, when you have several people swarming a thief since they are the last alive, and all the sudden vanishes mid-immobilize / stealths and everyone attacking / aoeing the area of the Shadows Refuge. Not to mention I save my Knockbacks for these situations. Albeit, it doesn’t work when they are immobilized.

Teleport hacking is a MAJOR problem in this game. I have recorded several proof videos and sent to exploits@arena.net or w/e it is. Saved in my email.

I have even posted vids on here, but have been infracted for them and having them removed due to “Character Assassination”. Teleport hacks are and continue to be a real problem. If you are unaware of that, then obviously you do not pay attention.

Deified.7520:

The WvW meta game does have some work to do. Engineers are non existant, and necros numbers are few. Thiefs, mesmers, and guardians are most prevelent. I had a thief come up behind me and do a chain of heart seekers, each one in a row. I was downed really fast and check combat log. around 3 heart seekers, each doing 3K damage plus….That’s 9k damage within about 2 seconds (on top of the mesmer that was bursting me). That is just insanity. But honestly, i just want them to fix culling issues. Personally I’m still having people appear on my screen late when it comes to stealth, and zergs vs zergs….wowzers. I think if we can fix that culling, we can truly assess the OP of thieves.

If you went down to 9k damage, then the issue isn’t the thief, it’s you.

No hacks. Check thieves you fight for the infiltration buff, if you see it, know that while it’s up, they can teleport up to 1200 feet away instantly, behind a rock, or a tree, even to different elevations. And they don’t even have to stealth if you have no idea where they initially dropped the teleport point.

Ultravalefor.5038:

No hacks. Check thieves you fight for the infiltration buff, if you see it, know that while it’s up, they can teleport up to 1200 feet away instantly, behind a rock, or a tree, even to different elevations. And they don’t even have to stealth if you have no idea where they initially dropped the teleport point.

I am aware of this as well. I only came to forums to see if others where having the same issues, or at the least noticing it. As my server has been facing the same 2 other servers for almost a month now, you start to notice certain tags / players doing things repeatedly, that is not explainable through in-game skills.

Guess I’ll just ignore it and hope they find a way to secure their clients better. Maybe a checksum / fail-safe to make sure the client is not modified upon login.

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Stealth doesn’t break combat, they’re stealthing then running far enough away to WP out. Also they might be chain stealthing and just running away.

This.

A single class shouldn’t have both invisibility and extreme mobility.

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty. In GW2 stealth is just a “free out of jail” card.

Snoxx.7943:

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty

Wow, really? What game?

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

SilverWF.4789:

Snoxx.7943:

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty

Wow, really? What game?

He is refering to wow. Well wow 10 years back, becouse now rogues in wow have speed increased during stealth by A LOT. Nerfing s[peed in stealth makes no sence at all, makes backstabs and tactical strikes impossible to land and just contributes to Basilisk+Cnd+mug+bs+hshshshshshs playstyle.

Piteous.4165:

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

Most ppl are not aware that they play in map full orf random mobs nad critters, that can be used to roam stealthed effectivelly.

I highly recommend changing your build and gear if you’re losing 2-3 people to a glass thief. It’s apparently happening to you often if you’re posting a thread about it.

Piteous.4165:

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

Because we had about 10 people spread out in the 1 area… And he literally just dropped out of combat and vanished. I explain most of this in previous posts.

Snoxx.7943:

DarkElvenChic.2618:

Stealth doesn’t break combat, they’re stealthing then running far enough away to WP out. Also they might be chain stealthing and just running away.

This.

A single class shouldn’t have both invisibility and extreme mobility.

Wait, what is wrong with having extra mobility? I’ve found many other thieves are squishy and my build especially uses mobility to survive even against other thieves especially backstab ones rather than mass stealth cause we can’t have both, it makes us unique.

SilverWF.4789:

Snoxx.7943:

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty

Wow, really? What game?

The list is long, let’s say DAoC, WAR, and yes WoW of course.

Also stealth isn’t perfect “invisibility” there, you still have a chance to spot a stealthed char, there are tools to reveal a stealthed enemy, damage breaks stealth, and usually you cannot go back to stealth once in combat (there are exceptions but few and with long cooldowns).

And then comes GW2, which was even advertised as a game without perma-stealth classes, and yet introduces the best “stealth” (aka “invisibility”) I’ve ever seen since playing MMOs for 15 years.

On top of that, we get a graphic engine with bad culling mechanics, allowing them to even attack while still being invisible. OMG!

Question: There is a trait to increase stealthed speed by 50%, does this really make invisible thieves move faster than a visible char with 33% haste?

Am I the only one who thinks stealth is broken in GW2?

The problem in this game with thieves is staying stealthed while taking damage. Most games i have played the stealth characters are automatically revealed when hit.

Otaur.9268:

Piteous.4165:

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

Because we had about 10 people spread out in the 1 area… And he literally just dropped out of combat and vanished. I explain most of this in previous posts.

Maybe he disconnected and somebody forgot to pick the bag up or didn’t see it

Pinko.2076:

I highly recommend changing your build and gear if you’re losing 2-3 people to a glass thief. It’s apparently happening to you often if you’re posting a thread about it.

Either that or the thief is really good and makes me feel terrible.

Liquid Swords.1740:

The problem in this game with thieves is staying stealthed while taking damage. Most games i have played the stealth characters are automatically revealed when hit.

Well there are ways to do this if you trait in the right way anyway when using my Leeching venom’s-Signet of malice build I will use poison AoE clouds and Caltrops to track them from my healing ability for example.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Wait, what is wrong with having extra mobility? I’ve found many other thieves are squishy and my build especially uses mobility to survive

Ohh, the “thieves are squishy” argument once again. If you are running around in glasscannon equip you are supposed to be squishy, just like every other class running around in glasscannon equip.

But as a thief you still have the option to escape from a fight, thanks to invisibility and mobility.

Ask a glasscannon warrior what happens when a fight goes wrong. Guess what, he’s dead within seconds.

The only class with comparable escape abilites (to thieves) are D/D Eles but they have to run around in bunker equip and their damage output is really low.

I have a bigger problem with 4 thieves and a mesmer grouped up hitting camps. It is what it is. Use a tankier build, or roll a thief.

oZii.2864:

Otaur.9268:

Piteous.4165:

How do you know he left if he is using stealth?

Because we had about 10 people spread out in the 1 area… And he literally just dropped out of combat and vanished. I explain most of this in previous posts.

Maybe he disconnected and somebody forgot to pick the bag up or didn’t see it

No, I’ve seen thieves doing things like that. They stealth, move away, and re-stealth on some mob, move further away and re-stealth again. You can’t catch them if they know how to fully exploit the stealth/culling mechanic.

Snoxx.7943:

SilverWF.4789:

Snoxx.7943:

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty

Wow, really? What game?

The list is long, let’s say DAoC, WAR, and yes WoW of course.

There is an answer about WOW
DAOC is pretty old and ugly game
WAR - no, there is no speed penalty in the stealth mode and stealth lasts for 30 sec... or 20... forgot... Also, this game have nearly 1 long speed boost: mount...

Jiiub.7135:

so no one read the whole post… HE KNOWS ITS NOT POSSIBLE!!!!! kitten how can 10 people post the exact same thing in a row.. lazy kittens… you got the energy to post but not read more then 2 lines…

if what he says is true its a hack to get out of combat when one shoudnt be able to. otherwise its just him and others seeing wrong…

I’ve seen same things very often: catching some enemy (any class, not only thief), constantly attacking him and somehow he is just disappeared from our screens.
If it was Alt+F4 – we must recieved exp reward and bags, but we are got nothing…

if its a group of thieves I don’t see why they can’t just stealth and run out of LOS/Field of view. each of them can use a blinding powder to prolong the length of stealth. it would appear as though they all just vanished and if you weren’t looking at the guy who casts blinding powder you’d not see any animation.

SilverWF.4789:

Also, this game have nearly 1 long speed boost: mount…

Good point! Where other games have mount, GW2 has swiftness buff or movement speed signets.

33% swiftness is the fastest regular way to move around, just like riding a mount was the fastest way to move in various other games (or speed classes, like bard/minstrel in DAoC).

In other words: swiftness and mount are basically the same, just visually different.

And thus, running around stealthed with 33% swiftness (or 25% speed signet, or even the 50% speed trait) is basically the same as riding a mount while stealthed in other games. Needless to say, mounted stealth never was possible in any game, for a good reason.

Even in WoW with all the new speed increases to stealth, you have no chance to catch up to a mounted enemy while stealthed. Things are different in GW2, I can run away with 33% swiftness, but that invisible thief following me is catching up.

Can you run away from a thief? No!
Can a thief run away from you? Yes!
Do you think this is fair?

SilverWF.4789:

I’ve seen same things very often: catching some enemy (any class, not only thief), constantly attacking him and somehow he is just disappeared from our screens.
If it was Alt+F4 – we must recieved exp reward and bags, but we are got nothing…

Happened to me few times as well, Guarians and warriors just disappearing… what’s more bother some is that they reappear ~10 sec later… I don’t think it’s hacks but another culling issue that makes enemy disappear if “too far away” although they were no further then 300 units away.

I am not saying that hacking doesn’t happen though, some time ago(around month ago) I met speedhacker in wvw and one knows it’s hacks if can’t catch up to “running” enemy with RtL

Snoxx.7943:

Can you run away from a thief? No!
Can a thief run away from you? Yes!
Do you think this is fair?

That’s easy: No, there’s absolutely nothing about the Thief’s combination of stealth, mobility, and DPS design that’s fair. ANet apparently doesn’t think so, though, so we have to put up with it. Either stick with a group or make sure you have money for repairs. /shrug

This is why I don’t try and run from thieves. I may lure a bit, if I think friendlies are nearby, but mostly I run just far enough to get them to hit shortbow 5 twice…than I dump everything I have on them (marks, wells, pain inverter, etc). Sometimes I die (well, a lot actually) and sometimes they die…but, that is what WvW is for.

Otaur.9268:

Daendur.2357:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

[cut]combat mode is only broken by putting distance between you and your enemy.[cut]

this is not completely true.
Combat also ends when the target is defeated.
So if this Über-thief pops out of stealth kills 2-3 opponents, finishes them before everyone can react and hit him, after the third stomp he will be out of combat and can use waypoint.
Obviously this thread is based upon ignorance of a bad player that instead of learn mechanics prefers to ask for nerf.

@Lamefox and Daendur, first of all, I am far from ignorant when it comes to the games mechanics. I and several others have witnessed downing someone by 1 keep they disappear while under conditions and re-appear in lord room of a different keep that our allies happen to be seiging. Second, I know thieves have some “teleport” skills, i.e. Shortbow 5, but, nothing that lets them completely teleport off map / screen. If the players were Rage quitting the new system would automatically kill them. However, when you have several people swarming a thief since they are the last alive, and all the sudden vanishes mid-immobilize / stealths and everyone attacking / aoeing the area of the Shadows Refuge. Not to mention I save my Knockbacks for these situations. Albeit, it doesn’t work when they are immobilized.

Teleport hacking is a MAJOR problem in this game. I have recorded several proof videos and sent to exploits@arena.net or w/e it is. Saved in my email.

I have even posted vids on here, but have been infracted for them and having them removed due to “Character Assassination”. Teleport hacks are and continue to be a real problem. If you are unaware of that, then obviously you do not pay attention.

So you are saying new thief trend = HACK !?!?!

lol

If a good thief wants to drop combat, there’s pretty much nothing you can do about it (assuming he has cooldowns ready). Drop refuge, if people start aoe’ing into it, dodge from end to end (there’s usually just enough room), evading any knockbacks and such. When the refuge field is over, shadowstep outta there. Now the thief is 1200 units away, and has a remaining stealth time of 10+ seconds. Good luck catching him before he drops combat

That last example is wrong using shadowstep after refuge goes down will break stealth again. so you don’t have 10s stealth after you use a step.

What does work is using shadowstep dropping refuge then porting back after refuge goes down that doesn’t break stealth, the other example does.

With the rendering/culling issue, stealth (not just thief) in his present state is really irritating.

I agree that using it in combat, without cooldowns, long durations, and thief having permanent access to it if they want to (thanks to culling/rendering issue), with no possible way to remove them from stealth, can seems a bit OP.

It should still be looked at, considering WvW issues.

Snoxx.7943:

SilverWF.4789:

Also, this game have nearly 1 long speed boost: mount…

Good point! Where other games have mount, GW2 has swiftness buff or movement speed signets.

33% swiftness is the fastest regular way to move around, just like riding a mount was the fastest way to move in various other games (or speed classes, like bard/minstrel in DAoC).

In other words: swiftness and mount are basically the same, just visually different.

And thus, running around stealthed with 33% swiftness (or 25% speed signet, or even the 50% speed trait) is basically the same as riding a mount while stealthed in other games. Needless to say, mounted stealth never was possible in any game, for a good reason.

Even in WoW with all the new speed increases to stealth, you have no chance to catch up to a mounted enemy while stealthed. Things are different in GW2, I can run away with 33% swiftness, but that invisible thief following me is catching up.

Can you run away from a thief? No!
Can a thief run away from you? Yes!
Do you think this is fair?

Fair or not, this was the intended design as has been stated several times even in these forums by devs. They want the thief to be slippery and very difficult to pin down.

Every class has builds capable of killing any thief or forcing them to run, the fact that players choose not to use those builds is no one’s fault but their own.

The only builds a thief has at the moment which are any good vs a build with adequate defense also lack the crazy mobility you mention here.

Snoxx.7943:

SilverWF.4789:

Snoxx.7943:

And btw, in any other game, stealth has a movement speed penalty

Wow, really? What game?

The list is long, let’s say DAoC, WAR, and yes WoW of course.

Also stealth isn’t perfect “invisibility” there, you still have a chance to spot a stealthed char, there are tools to reveal a stealthed enemy, damage breaks stealth, and usually you cannot go back to stealth once in combat (there are exceptions but few and with long cooldowns).

And then comes GW2, which was even advertised as a game without perma-stealth classes, and yet introduces the best “stealth” (aka “invisibility”) I’ve ever seen since playing MMOs for 15 years.

On top of that, we get a graphic engine with bad culling mechanics, allowing them to even attack while still being invisible. OMG!

Question: There is a trait to increase stealthed speed by 50%, does this really make invisible thieves move faster than a visible char with 33% haste?

Am I the only one who thinks stealth is broken in GW2?

heh, That’s because being able to stealth in combat is always broken and frankly overpowered.

It allows you to escape every fight that goes bad for you.

Hell Rift had that issue with Rogues, they gave them a short cooldown escape ability that just allow them to escape constantly, but even it longer then the low cooldowns you got in this game.

I just have to add that devs are planning a buff to thieves hurhur next wvw patch